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Sony vs Microsoft: The First Party Studios

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WWS under Yoshida is underperforming. There's no big blockbuster AAA title for PS4 this holiday. Driveclub didn't score as expected, nor did Knack or Killzone, they were critical bombs. Commercial flops include Puppeteer, Beyond and GT6(certainly for the series' standards), they were released close to PS4 launch. These games would have benefited from coming out earlier or being cross gen titles. Another bomb includes GoW Ascension, no one asked for it. He closed Studio Liverpool, he is responsible for The Last Guardian fiasco. Japan Studio's incompetence. SCEE studio output at an all time low. Only AAA game that both performed well critically and commercially is inFamous. Naughty Dog sells and makes good games cuz they're Naughty Dog.

-The Order should have released this holiday but it was delayed.
-Beyond didn't bombed, It's a million saler since 2013 http://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/01/10/beyond-two-souls-sales-pass-1-million, I agree with the other two
-I don't see how SCEE studios output is at an all time low, Evolution Studio released 3 games in 4 years, Media Molecule 2, Guerrilla Games 2 and Guerrilla Cambridge 1. The only studio where you may have a point is London Studio.
-Japan Studio release game first and foremost for its home market so obviously they wlill make a lot of handheld game and they released 12 games (a lot of collaboration) in 4 years as well.
 
I know you are trolling but Halo 2 can't be played online on Xbox in its current state before MCC comes out. Even if you think the enhancements in MCC are minor for some reason its not the same.
Sure its the same,
Is halo 3 going to have an awful story campaign? Yes.
Is halo 4 still going to be an a shit stain on a near flawless franchise?
Ya betcha.
halo 2 is the only one getting any effort,
But other than that,
They will all still be the same games.
Nothing changed,
Ms playing it safe by banking on nostalgia to pad out their holiday line up.
 
Driveclub didn't score as expected, nor did Knack or Killzone, they were critical bombs.

Scores are nice PR fuel to a company like Sony or Microsoft. They can trot them out like they did with The Last of Us, etc, but they care about sales first and foremost. Both Knack and Killzone, for all their mediocrity, were commercial successes.

And Infamous, as you note later down, was both a commercial and critical success as well.

Commercial flops include Puppeteer, Beyond and GT6(certainly for the series' standards), they were released close to PS4 launch.

Beyond isn't a first party game. SCE doesn't own Quantic Dream.


He closed Studio Liverpool

A decision to close down a studio comes from the CEO and CFO. That's outside of Yoshida's jurisdiction.

he is responsible for The Last Guardian fiasco.

If anyone's to blame for The Last Guardian fiasco, it's PR. They trotted that game out way too early and they shouldn't have done that. Again, not in Yoshida's wheelhouse.

Only AAA game that both performed well critically and commercially is inFamous. Naughty Dog sells and makes good games cuz they're Naughty Dog.

I don't think you know what you're talking about here, as evidenced by the backtracking in the succeeding sentence.
 
Sure its the same,
Is halo 3 going to have an awful story campaign? Yes.
Is halo 4 still going to be an a shit stain on a near flawless franchise?
Ya betcha.
halo 2 is the only one getting any effort,
But other than that,
They will all still be the same games.
Nothing changed,
Ms playing it safe by banking on nostalgia to pad out their holiday line up.

Be careful; your bias is showing.
 
Is halo 3 going to have an awful story campaign? Yes.

lucille.gif
 
Bias to what?
To criticize a company for playing it safe.
Yeah ok,
Mind not picking your nose before posting,
I dont like reading snotty posts.

When did the conversation turn to criticizing the games?

First you act like it's completely impossible to debate that the MCC cant be played on the 360.

Then you turned to criticize the games instead of explaining how H2A and the multiplayer playlists could be played on the 360.

But I'm snotty...
 
WWS under Yoshida is underperforming. There's no big blockbuster AAA title for PS4 this holiday. Driveclub didn't score as expected, nor did Knack or Killzone, they were critical bombs. Commercial flops include Puppeteer, Beyond and GT6(certainly for the series' standards), they were released close to PS4 launch. These games would have benefited from coming out earlier or being cross gen titles. Another bomb includes GoW Ascension, no one asked for it. He closed Studio Liverpool, he is responsible for The Last Guardian fiasco. Japan Studio's incompetence. SCEE studio output at an all time low. Only AAA game that both performed well critically and commercially is inFamous. Naughty Dog sells and makes good games cuz they're Naughty Dog.

Really? you're posting pretty much the same thing you posted here three days ago http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=133507697&postcount=637 and that Verendus already refuted here two days ago http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=133615316&postcount=677 . Come on man, at least try to hide you shit.
 
Ms playing it safe by banking on nostalgia to pad out their holiday line up.

I don't think Halo MCC counts as "playing it safe", its a package of great value and a lot of work has gone into it. Yes H2A more than the others but what do you expect them to do to Halo 3/4/CEA?

They were already 360 games and giving them the "Anniversary treatment" (Combat Evolved again) would probably not really work out as particularly beneficial given that they haven't even really aged, Halo 4 was out 2 years ago...

Halo MCC is the only remaster MS have done so far on Xbox One and they've gone above and beyond what any other remaster or HD collection has done by a long way imo.

Halo MCC is many things, I don't think "padding" is one of them
 
Sure its the same,
Is halo 3 going to have an awful story campaign? Yes.
Is halo 4 still going to be an a shit stain on a near flawless franchise?
Ya betcha.
halo 2 is the only one getting any effort,
But other than that,
They will all still be the same games.
Nothing changed,
Ms playing it safe by banking on nostalgia to pad out their holiday line up.
Your post is laughable. If MS is playing it safe then what the heck is Sony doing right now? Sunset Overdrive, D4, Project Spark, Forza Horizon 2 and the Master Chief Collection is a great holiday line up.

Halo 3 campaign is liked by many. Halo2 hasnt been playable on xbox live for some time and halo ce multiplayer has never been on xbox live. All the games are getting 1080p 60fps treatment and dedicated servers. For fans of online multiplayer this is huge. Keep living in denial.
 
Your post is laughable. If MS is playing it safe then what the heck is Sony doing right now? Sunset Overdrive, D4, Project Spark, Forza Horizon 2 and the Master Chief Collection is a great holiday line up.

Halo 3 campaign is liked by many. Halo2 hasnt been playable on xbox live for some time and halo ce multiplayer has never been on xbox live. All the games are getting 1080p 60fps treatment and dedicated servers. For fans of online multiplayer this is huge. Keep living in denial.

Some of those games you mentioned aren't even on the list... are you sure they're real?
 
Gotta wait until 2015 until the console is worth buying (Bloodborne, Uncharted).

XB1 is actually worth considering this year with MCC and Sunset Overdrive (could be a bust or a classic).

Wii U is the only console worth buying without hesitation. Console actually has an abundance of quality first party games, although it did get a year heads start so that is expected.

Early console adopters are always shafted and what Sony is doing with the PS4 is a prime example of that.
A collection of old games that have been played to death is exciting? Here I was thinking that the standards couldn't get any lower. The only note worthy games Ms studios will release this year is FH2 and Sunset Overdrive. Sunset is like a b tier game. It's going to review well and sell poorly. It's not the type of game people outside of gaf get excited for. It has no marketable hook and it's coming from a studio that the general public doesn't know or care about. It also comes out one week before cod so it's probably going to get ignored.
 
MCC is available on 360, but R&C remaster is exclusive to the PS4?

what?

Sure its the same,
Is halo 3 going to have an awful story campaign? Yes.
Is halo 4 still going to be an a shit stain on a near flawless franchise?
Ya betcha.
halo 2 is the only one getting any effort,
But other than that,
They will all still be the same games.
Nothing changed,
Ms playing it safe by banking on nostalgia to pad out their holiday line up.

ZVua6.gif
 
Sure its the same,
Is halo 3 going to have an awful story campaign? Yes.
Is halo 4 still going to be an a shit stain on a near flawless franchise?
Ya betcha.
halo 2 is the only one getting any effort,
But other than that,
They will all still be the same games.
Nothing changed,
Ms playing it safe by banking on nostalgia to pad out their holiday line up.

94408-Ice-Cube-HUH-wtf-WHAT-THE-FUCK-4pAG.gif


EDIT: As excited as I am for Bloodborne, I'm still waiting for sony's 1st party studios to show me something new and exciting.
 
Omg bish is quoting me......
Is it good?

Speaking from personal experience, no.

OT. I'm in the Sony camp for sure on this topic but anyone saying MS is bringing Halo out just for nostalgia is crazy in my opinion. Halo is a great series and has a ton of hardcore fans. I'm glad they are moving forward. My only concern is how it will turn out as Bungie has moved on. Wish them well, though.
 
Wait, Wild on PS4 is free-to-play? Or am I reading incorrectly?

Its not, I don't know why it says that

OT: MS without a doubt has the better line up this holiday season but their 2015 is not looking that good at all compared to the PS4. I can see why they felt the need to get Tomb Raider as a timed exclusive. Quantum Break, Halo 5, and Tomb Raider. We'll assume Forza 6 is happening as well. There's a huge gap between QB which is early 15 and those other three which are all Holiday 15. Like an 8 month gap.
 
Sonys first party Quantity. .yes....quality is another question. ..out of the list there I'd only a handful I would play or am excited about but the ms offering seems to be more my style....but that's just my taste. ..everyone will be different
 
Now the previous generation is over, I hadn't really looked back at the first parties outputs till now. Looking at it, I'd say they were both about on par, but both pretty weak in reality.

Just based on the games listed on Wiki as having been published by the first parties, these are the only ones I think are legitimately great:

Demon's Souls
Uncharted 2
Flower
Journey
The Last of Us

Halo 3
Mass Effect
Halo: Reach

Demon's Souls kind of doesn't count, as they didn't publish it worldwide, Flower and Journey are both by a company that is no longer making Sony exclusives. Mass Effect obviously went multiplatform in the end, and Bungie are gone.

I don't have a lot of faith in either of them, I'm sure Bloodborne will be rad, and whatever Druckley puts out, but they're both wholly middling.
 
Sonys first party Quantity. .yes....quality is another question. ..out of the list there I'd only a handful I would play or am excited about but the ms offering seems to be more my style....but that's just my taste. ..everyone will be different


Very true. I admit there are a couple MS exclusives I'd like to play but nothing tugs on my soul like Bloodborne, Uncharted, LBP and Deep Down. Heck, even though it was short, I loved inFamous.

Sony's smaller digital games are the fucking best thing in the industry. So many crazy, creative ideas. They ruin me.

Agreed. Games like Journey and A Tale of Two Brothers are just so good to come across and play. Sometimes, I get AAA fatigue so when I play gems like this I get totally engrossed. It just goes to show you don't need a 500 person team to make a great game. That said, anyone who hasn't played ATOTB should. Such a great story and great use of the analog sticks for intuitive gameplay.

Disclaimer: in not certain if these games are exclusive to Sony, rather I'm making a point about independent digital only games.
 
WWS under Yoshida is underperforming. There's no big blockbuster AAA title for PS4 this holiday. Driveclub didn't score as expected, nor did Knack or Killzone, they were critical bombs. Commercial flops include Puppeteer, Beyond and GT6(certainly for the series' standards), they were released close to PS4 launch. These games would have benefited from coming out earlier or being cross gen titles. Another bomb includes GoW Ascension, no one asked for it. He closed Studio Liverpool, he is responsible for The Last Guardian fiasco. Japan Studio's incompetence. SCEE studio output at an all time low. Only AAA game that both performed well critically and commercially is inFamous. Naughty Dog sells and makes good games cuz they're Naughty Dog.


Verendus gave a pretty good response to your concerns: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=133615316&postcount=677

EDIT: beaten by Apathy.
 
But really,
Compared to h1-2 it was lack luster.
You are forerunner,
I bruised my face it was so face slappingly stupid.
I remember absolutely nothing from the campaign,
And I aced it 5 times on legendary.

I dunno man, I always thought that Halo 2 was generally the least liked campaign. Halo 3 was damn good stuff, not on Halo 1 level but it was a great experience.

on topic: I think that going in this new generation both do a good job on first party. I know that one side has its reputation of putting more effort into it, but I see them both improving on banking up their first party studios which will benefit in the long run..us, gamers.
 
That is surprising, i didn't realize there are a lot more games on the PS4 than Xbox one, both exclusive and third-party.
Yeah, and a staggering majority of 124 people has voted that the PS4 has the best library!

jk, strangely enough, a big shop in my country lists 90 games for PS4 and 102 for XB1..
 
Really? you're posting pretty much the same thing you posted here three days ago http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=133507697&postcount=637 and that Verendus already refuted here two days ago http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=133615316&postcount=677 . Come on man, at least try to hide you shit.

According to GfK Chart-Track, who are in charge of compiling sales data across the UK, have reported that God of War: Ascension's launch week sales figures are less than half of God of War 3.
http://www.gamingunion.net/news/8956/god-of-war-ascension-launch-sales-fall-short-of-god-of-war-3/

In the US the same, GoW3 NPD 1.1M, GoW Ascension 560k http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/20/npd-march-bioshock-infinite-tops-us-retail-charts/

Sure the definition of a bomb differs from person to person but when the game fails to sell even half of the previous game, it is an irrefutable bomb.

"GT6 has no impact on PS4 GT" who is challenging this. PS4 had an impact on GT6 not the other way around.

I doubt Sony are satisfied with Beyond sales, it certainly doesn't look like a game that made its money back with a million+ sales. This game was more expensive than Heavy Rain due to involvement of top actors. HR had a slow start but great legs post launch due to good word of mouth. It wasn't there for Beyond. The PS4 port is all but confirmed at this point.

And yes he's partly responsible for TLG, otherwise he wouldn't be in charge. He should've made a better judgment call when Ueda pushed for the impossible years ago.
 
http://www.gamingunion.net/news/8956/god-of-war-ascension-launch-sales-fall-short-of-god-of-war-3/

In the US the same, GoW3 NPD 1.1M, GoW Ascension 560k http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/20/npd-march-bioshock-infinite-tops-us-retail-charts/

Sure the definition of a bomb differs from person to person but when the game fails to sell even half of the previous game, it is an irrefutable bomb.

"GT6 has no impact on PS4 GT" who is challenging this. PS4 had an impact on GT6 not the other way around.

I doubt Sony are satisfied with Beyond sales, it certainly doesn't look like a game that made its money back with a million+ sales. This game was more expensive than Heavy Rain due to involvement of top actors. HR had a slow start but great legs post launch due to good word of mouth. It wasn't there for Beyond. The PS4 port is all but confirmed at this point.

And yes he's partly responsible for TLG, otherwise he wouldn't be in charge. He should've made a better judgment call when Ueda pushed for the impossible years ago.


Lets see, where to begin. Sure, if a game does not sell as many as the previous game does (if it were a sequel) would be a bit bad, although you would not say say, a wow expansion that sold less than the previous one bombed if it sold a fuck load. Bomb would be if a game does not generate more money than what it costs to make. It can still be successful if less people buy it than the previous one if it makes back it's money.

Lets gloss over the fact that Beyond was another new IP and people are hesitant for that sometimes, and lets say you are comparing total sales of a game that came out in 2010 (Heavy Rain) to the total sales of a game that came out in 2013 (Beyond), so how about we try and compare in relative time.

Beyond sold 1 million between October 2013 and January 2014 (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/01/10/beyond-two-souls-sales-pass-1-million) while heavy Rain came out in February 2010 and by April 2010 it had 1 million sales (according to this interview http://www.play3.de/2010/04/08/exklusiv-interview-nachgedanken-zu-heavy-rain-von-david-cage/ english translation here http://ca.ign.com/articles/2010/04/09/heavy-rain-sales-top-one-million-worldwide), so 3 months for Beyond before they announced it and 2 for HR, not a big difference.

Well what about budget? Well with even a cursory search, HR cost 22 Million to make + 8 to promote and 10 to distribute (about 40 million total and generated 100 million after over 3 years) while Beyond had a production budget of 27 million. Even if we add a bit more for marketing, distribution will probably be around the same, no way did it total cost over escalate to the point where it has not made back money. (all numbers from here http://www.gamespot.com/articles/beyond-two-souls-budget-was-27-million-report/1100-6414844/).

The other stuff, why am I going to reiterate what Verendus told you two days ago but you don't want to accept. And again, you can't say something was a commercial flop just because you think it. If you have the budget of a game and know sells, then you can. Hell between November and January Killzone sold 2.1 million when there were just over 4.2 million PS4's in people's houses. An almost 50% attach rate on a new machine would hardly suggest commercial flop (critical, maybe lukewarm but that is a different story) although I can't say for sure.

You just seem to have an irrational hate for Shuhei Yoshida and want to see him fired.
 
http://www.gamingunion.net/news/8956/god-of-war-ascension-launch-sales-fall-short-of-god-of-war-3/

In the US the same, GoW3 NPD 1.1M, GoW Ascension 560k http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/20/npd-march-bioshock-infinite-tops-us-retail-charts/

Sure the definition of a bomb differs from person to person but when the game fails to sell even half of the previous game, it is an irrefutable bomb.

"GT6 has no impact on PS4 GT" who is challenging this. PS4 had an impact on GT6 not the other way around.

I doubt Sony are satisfied with Beyond sales, it certainly doesn't look like a game that made its money back with a million+ sales. This game was more expensive than Heavy Rain due to involvement of top actors. HR had a slow start but great legs post launch due to good word of mouth. It wasn't there for Beyond. The PS4 port is all but confirmed at this point.

And yes he's partly responsible for TLG, otherwise he wouldn't be in charge. He should've made a better judgment call when Ueda pushed for the impossible years ago.
How is it an irrefutable bomb? You have no idea about its overall sales, its revenue, and the overall profit of the project. It's a project which had a generally quick turn around whilst another group focused on the new IP, which ultimately suffered an ending no one wanted. From God of War 3, to the God of War Collections, to Ascension, all of those projects were extremely successful. Your argument is that you're upset God of War: Ascension exists, because it didn't manage to do as well as God of War 3 which is one of the most successful action titles ever made (and maybe you just really don't like Ascension).

And if you're dissatisifed with Ascension, what did you want in place of it for 2013? Because you weren't going to get another new IP and you sure as hell weren't getting God of War 4 because there are going to be some big changes with that franchise. Santa Monica focused on producing a new IP since 2010, and at the same time, delivered another project which was a financial success in Ascension. Saying that was a terrible move just makes you clueless. How is this a bad move? This is a business at the end of the day, and Ascension did well both critically and commercially for SCE, even if it didn't reach the heights of God of War 3. Is Ascension going to hurt the next big "God of War" title? No, it's going to have no impact whatsoever.

Sony is more than satisfied with Beyond sales. Heavy Rain cost something like 30-33 million euros all in if I remember right. That was costs of production, marketing, distribution etc. Beyond is not much more than that. It has been very profitable. So again, please cut the crap and stop making assumptions. There is a reason why the partnership between QD and SCE continues to thrive, and even develop further.

With GT6, PD isn't going to release a fully fledged Gran Turismo title a year into PS4's launch unfortunately. It would be amazing, yes, but it's quite unrealistic. The ones that were supposed to make it for this year, couldn't make it, and their games/projects aren't as important as Gran Turismo. This is Sony's biggest franchise. We release Gran Turismo 6, and it may not sell 10 million, but it's going to sell millions and make a hell of a lot of money. We then continue and deliver full next generation title a couple years later, mostly on schedule. Alternatively, let's not release GT6 and wait a few years anyway. Great, so what now? How does this make sense for SCE? What did we gain? Nothing at all. We actually lose out. Fantastic outcome.

And if you're going to hold Shu partly responsible for TLG, then in the same manner, give part of the credit for every single title that is produced and released. That includes Naughty Dogs projects, because he's just as much "partly" responsible for those as he is for TLG. The chain of command doesn't work in the way you to seem to think it does. TLG is under Japan Studio and there is a reason why these studios have their own heads in place. There are over a dozen studios at Sony, and something like 30-40 projects in development. All of these studios have people directly in charge who manage them, who are the ones who report back to Yoshida. And what's a better judgment call? Do you want the project abandoned? Do you want them to deliver a mediocre game? Or is it better that they've been given more time, and people will ultimately get what they deserve on the PS4? You're a consumer. Why the hell does this matter to you? What stake do you have in SCE's financial success with TLG exactly? Their survival isn't dependant on this one project. In that respect, Yoshida made the best decision possible for fans, because at least you'll get to play it.
 
Beyond cost over 40 mil to develop and market, it sells about 1 mil. I fail to see how this was a success in any way. Even if it was "profitable", it was barely so. One mil is a total bomb for a 45-50 million dollar game.
 
Beyond cost over 40 mil to develop and market, it sells about 1 mil. I fail to see how this was a success in any way. Even if it was "profitable", it was barely so. One mil is a total bomb for a 45-50 million dollar game.

It sold 1 mil in like three months. Its probably sold more than that at this point, though the transition of PS4 probably screwed it over, but it won't cost that much to do a simple port and they'll probably be able to pull another million or so out of it over the generation if its anything like Heavy Rain which had pretty long legs.
So there shouldn't be any issue as far as I can see.
 
Beyond cost over 40 mil to develop and market, it sells about 1 mil. I fail to see how this was a success in any way. Even if it was "profitable", it was barely so. One mil is a total bomb for a 45-50 million dollar game.

Are we sure that Sony spent over 13 million dollars to market the game, since production/development budget was 27 mill?

Also, the game sold 1 mill in January. Surely it has sold a bit more by now.
 
It sold 1 mil in like three months. Its probably sold more than that at this point, though the transition of PS4 probably screwed it over, but it won't cost that much to do a simple port and they'll probably be able to pull another million or so out of it over the generation if its anything like Heavy Rain which had pretty long legs.
So there shouldn't be any issue as far as I can see.
No way it does another million. It doesn't have legs like that. Even if it sold 1.3 mil or 1.5 mil, it's still a total bomb considering its budget. I remember seeing commercials in prime time during WWE Raw. A 45-50 mil game selling a little over a million copies is a bomb. Ask any publisher if they would green light a game for 45 mil that was gonna sell 1 to 1.5 mil copies, they'd laugh you out of the building. Even if you break even or are slightly profitable, it's still a bomb based on opportunity cost.
 
Beyond cost over 40 mil to develop and market, it sells about 1 mil. I fail to see how this was a success in any way. Even if it was "profitable", it was barely so. One mil is a total bomb for a 45-50 million dollar game.

2 posts up man, literally told you it was 1 million copies in 3 months. This month makes it the 1 year anniversary for the release. In has no doubt sold more copies in the past 9 months.
 
I have grievances with both Sony and MS approach to exclusives so far. Namely:

For MS,

I'm tired of them relying on Halo and Gears for thier big exclusives. It's like Its easy to predict what game they will launch for each holiday period.

Its annoying that they don't buy or create more studios, Capcom are avaliable to buy, yet MS don't seem interested, instead they form Black Tusk just to create Gears.

Then you've got Rare, and how I'm still waiting for a Banjo platformer or a new Perfect Dark or Kameo. It's a fucking joke.

For Sony,

I'm tired of thier studios approaching each game with a graphics and story first mentality. The Order, KZ, all have amazing graphics yet the gameplay looks utter shit.

What I want from them is a game that really prioritises deep, rewarding gameplay above all else, and aside from Bloodborne, none of thier games do this.

It's about time they created a really great FPS game as well, on par with Halo and Gears.

Untill I see the priorities of MS and Sony change, then that's when I buy a current gen console.
 
2 posts up man, literally told you it was 1 million copies in 3 months. This month makes it the 1 year anniversary for the release. In has no doubt sold more copies in the past 9 months.

A few hundred thousand more isn't going to make a difference, see my post above. That game wasn't going to have legs, either. It was front-loaded.
 
Microsoft will always be the newcomer in my eyes so they will never get my full respect when it comes to their first party. It sounds completely idiotic but thats how my head works when I think about Sony vs Microsoft in terms of first party. Same reason why I think Nintendo will always be better than Sony in that department.
 
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