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Nathan Drake's looking good (Uncharted 4)
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Which Mario games require you to kill every enemy in a level? Im pretty sure you can do no kill runs on a lot of them.
Try again.
Chet Rippo
Member
Was his chin always that big? Maybe I'm just crazy...
test_account
XP-39C²
Its possible to run past a lot of enemies in Uncharted as well. You're not required to kill every single one of them. Its also possible to punch/knock out a lot of them instead of shooting them (which is a lot easier if you're playing on a easier difficulty level).
I think the example is perfectly fine because it shows that analyzing things outside from what the developers intended can be done in a lot of games. "Its Mario time", "woohoo" and Drake's jokes arent related to the fun and enjoyment of killing even if someone analyze those things to have those meanings. Nintendo and Naughty Dog never intended Mario and Drake respectively to be psychpaths that does a lot of killing for fun, they just made the concept "good guys VS bad guys" for gameplay purposes. I dont think there is much need to trying to look into things that arent there. I think its ok to joke about these things though, but some seem to be serious about it for some reason (which i'm honestly wondering what the reason is).
Other examples i remember is Pokemon, you keep animals in captivety and force them to fight eachother, and that Mario shows that it is ok to skin animals and wear their fur. The last one (regarding the fur, showing Mario in a bloody Tanooki suit) was done by PETA and i think it was serious. I dont know if the Pokemon thing was just a joke or if someone ment it as a serious thing. But its good examples of showing how someone analyze things regarding games about things that the developers didnt intend.
EDIT: I added some text.
dragonfart28
Banned
He's got a really ugly nose.
Lol, why would i pass trough enemy´s without killing them if that is one of the most important mechanics in the game? Is also one of the most funny ones too, if moral comes to an end, then there shouldnt be any shooters on the market despite of what you were killing, i mean come on!
1970 Chevelle SS
Neo Member
Gabe Logan in SyphonFilter would also be considered a mass murderer. Aren't most game shooter games that way? I'm surprised Nathan Drake seems the only one that gets singled out for this.
Which levels? Aside from a few onrail vehicle areas you almost always have to clear the room in order to proceed.
There was a link to a Hennig interview posted earlier that shows even the devs are aware of this possibly being an issue and they've taken measures to justify the violence. Something the Mario games don't have to do because there is no reality to a cartoon plumber jumping on mushrooms. Compare that to the moody U4 teaser and hyper realistic character model.
Pound_lb003
Member
He looks almost exactly like my dad, which is weird.
My uncle calls him 'big nose'.
travisbickle
Member
It's because Sony tries to make their games realistic and not fun like all other games, so we're allowed to criticise them for implementing game elements that stretch/contradict the persona of the characters that we see in the realistic passive-cutscenes in every Sony game.
By definition it is not.
At best mario "kills" mushrooms goombas , koopas, bloopers (squids). None of those are humans / people. Those are animals + plants at best.
Definition of "genocide" is:
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group.
Definition of "people" is:
human beings in general or considered collectively.
Humans kill animals + plants on a regular basis. Killing humans on the other side is considered something way more severe and not okay at all and btw. the goal of mario platformers is platforming and not killing lots and lots of enemies anyway. In Uncharted, Uncharted Raider and such other games you are forced by the game to do exactly that. And not just imaginary enemies, but in fact humans.
but nice try.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Drake is clearly the videogame version of Indy, the likeable bloke who hunts treasure and kills bad guys and who shouldn't be taken so damn seriously. Both are heroes of pulp fiction. Indy's a guy you'd like to drink a beer with, but who also casually shoot a sword-wielding Arab, drives jeeps full of people off cliffs and punches bad guys in plane rotors and rock crushers. Drake is the same, though he's actually a more fleshed-out character when push comes to shove. But the idea is the same. Yeah, there's a difference in body count, but not intent. One's a video game, the other a movie.
I love how ND went to great length to show that he only kills bad guys who had it coming: he uses tranquilizers on the guards in the museum mission of UC2 and when he throws a guard in the water you can even see his swim to safety.
But anyway, this conversation has been done to death. Here's to the actual gameplay reveal, so we can have something new to talk about.
Next up: Link is a grass cutting, bush burning eco terrorist.
I love how ND went to great length to show that he only kills bad guys who had it coming: he uses tranquilizers on the guards in the museum mission of UC2 and when he throws a guard in the water you can even see his swim to safety.
But anyway, this conversation has been done to death. Here's to the actual gameplay reveal, so we can have something new to talk about.
Next up: Link is a grass cutting, bush burning eco terrorist.
GarciaHotspur
Member
Please someone explain me what happened on this thread.
1000 messages for one picture ? It can't be !
1000 messages for one picture ? It can't be !
Please someone explain me what happened on this thread.
1000 messages for one picture ? It can't be !
If you think that is much, wait until the first HL3 pic appears.
1 million replies in 30 mins.
Belive.
Please someone explain me what happened on this thread.
1000 messages for one picture ? It can't be !
It's Nathan Drake
AC:Unity was targeting 1080p/60fps... now it 900p/30fps.
Shadow of Mordor was targeting 1080p/60fps... now it's 1080p/30fps.
Targeting means very little at this point.
SolidSnakex
Member
I think it means a lot more here since it appears that they've been building it from the start to run at 60fps. That makes a big difference. Also the comments from ND about 60fps after TLoU:R were quite telling as well.
i hope they deliver of course, personally i'm not just ready to assume it will be and set my expectations that high.
it's certainly good to see them having 60 as a priority though.
As for the LoU comments, maybe i'm being unfairly cynical here, but i took them more as them trying to sell the remaster to an audience not used to the idea of 60fps being a big deal.
test_account
XP-39C²
Serveral of them i think. Here is one example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Vf-uXooybqk#t=1401
Search for "Uncharted speedrun" on Youtube and you might find more examples. Personally i dont think it matters that much though. Both Uncharted and Mario games are made with the intend to dispose of enemies as a part of the gameplay eventhough if it should be possible to just dodge/run past the enemies.
The arguments here would actuallybe much of the same. Someone is giving reasons for why the killing doesnt matter in Mario games, while someone else is using reasons for why the killing in Uncharted doesnt have some psychopathic meaning behind it.
The arguement isnt about if Uncharted is a violent game or not by the way. Its definitelly is a violent game with realistic-like graphics indeed. The argument is about if Drake does the killing simply for fun like a psychopath. In contrast, its possible to say that the Mario games are violent and that the killing is there for fun, using arguments like "Nintendo puts a "cuddly" filter in the Mario games to make the killing seems less serious, and they even made it possible to kill almost all enemies despite it being easy to just avoid most of them". Personally, i think both reasons are kinda silly because in the end they are both games that are made to be entertaining.
That said, its no problem that people dont like these type of violent games of course, and there is no problem to discuss if maybe the game could have less focus on the shooting gameplay. Those are fair arguments i'd say. But i just simply dont agree with saying that the developers have put some meaning behind that the killing is being done it a psychopatic way.
The fact that Drake clearly isn't a psychopath nor is he intended to be, is what creates the disconnect for some people. And I don't see how you can argue that jumping on mushrooms is just as serious as shooting someone in the face.
It is indeed not about violence but the disconnect some people feel. You don't see the same complaints for the Last of Us or Spec Ops even when Nate and Joel have pretty similar kill counts.
Phreakuency
Banned
OP posts new pic of model. 22 pages later, silly dipshits are seriously discussing Drake VS Mario and their killing of enemies.
And people wonder why these forums are so irrelevant.
And people wonder why these forums are so irrelevant.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
Hope they don't sacrifice graphics for 60 fps. Uncharted is smooth enough at 30
hydrophilic attack
Member
The mods changed the thread title back?
Noooooooo
Noooooooo
lukeskymac
Member
Dude,
60 fps is a requirement for Nathan Croft and the island of the One Piece.
You need to time those jumps to the frame (the game won't auto-adjust I swear).
/s
I think it's an interesting topic. I also wouldn't mind if Naughty Dog added more depth to the gameplay and effort into puzzles, platforming.
Whats your contribution to the thread?
test_account
XP-39C²
I never argued about that. If you read again what i've said, you see that i've chosen my word carefully around this. I said things like "someone saying" and "its possible to argue about it". I never made those arguement myself, especially not in a serious manner. I even said that i found that arguement to be silly. I love the Mario games, and i dont think anything more about the game concept other than "good guys VS bad guys".
That is fair enough. Personally i just dont see why it has to be so serious when the game concept is simply "good guys VS bad guys". I guess i can see the disconnect like you mention, but it just seems to strong to me saying that Drake is a psychopatcial mass murderer that makes fun of the killing. That is what i'm disagreeing with.
Okay, I see I read that wrong, sorry.
I've said earlier, that it doesn't bother me personally and I enjoy the games. But I can understand the other side and think it's at the least, an interesting aspect. The ND fans being dismissive haven't really made a good defense other then whine IMO. Its going to be interesting to see how U4 turns out as I don't see them returning to the exact same tone after TLoU and changing writers.
test_account
XP-39C²
No worries, i understand that writing it like that could be understood that i'm making the arguement. I didnt mean to be rude with what i said, i just had to point out that i didnt make those arguement myself
Yeah, i can see the arguement, i just think its just too strong to call Drake being a psychopathical killed that enjoys killing for fun when the game is set up to be the good guys VS the bad guys, like any other action movie with some "dark" humor here and there. The number of people that you fight is there only for gameplay reasons. I think it would be boring if there were like maybe 5-10 enemies in the whole game. I agree that it would be interesting to see more deeper puzles and platforming, and stuff like that. We'll see how Uncharted 4 will be =)
blitzcloud
Banned
you're all talking about his genocidal abilities, but what about his wreck-everything-he-comes-in-contact ability?
Red Chocobo
Banned
Actually, you are given points and various other awards for killing enemies in Mario games.
Killing is actually essential for a high score.
He talks about his wife beating cancer or some such in that video.
test_account
XP-39C²
Lol at the facial expression in the last picture
There are also items that are designed to take out enemies (Star and Fire Flower for example). You can avoid most of the enemies though, but taking them out is also a part of the gameplay design.
lukeskymac
Member
Yes, I have read how you think all ND games are shallow shootfests.
Are you implying that you yourself made any? Need I remind you what's the ACTUAL TOPIC of this thread?
Refresh my memory. I don't remember making such a post.
An image of a character. People discuss the character. You whine.
If it's any consolation, I think he looks pretty damn hot too. I actually just came several bucketfulls of cum. Let me go fetch a .gif to demonstrate.
I can't believe this is a serious conversation and something the devs are thinking about. Some people need to put the controller down, it's a game, nobody actually died
Some of the misconceptions regarding the 'ludonarrative dissonance' are getting a bit silly, so let me try to clear it up for the people dismissing the notion outright without an argument. Bullet points, so all may understand.
Anyway, I hope that's helpful for people confused about the dissonance concept.
- The reason why the debate sparked was because the thread title was changed to refer to Drake as a mass murder.
- Bringing up Mario, or Link, is a stupid counter argument. Bringing up Master Chief is a different kind of stupid argument. A game like Mario doesn't touch on the kinds of high level themes, or real emotional drama, you see in a game like Uncharted. Narratively, Master Chief is a superhuman war machine fighting in a galactic conflict, his willingness to kill as he does makes sense with that context.
- It isn't a nitpick. It's a notable part of bad writing that stands out amongst the rest of it. Amy Henning is aware of it. It has been addressed in the series, because it does form part of Nathan Drake's character. The problem is that you risk making Drake into an unlikeable character by bringing that aspect into the spotlight. It isn't about Drake having a pistol in his mouth at the end of the game, Kojima style. It's about addressing the fact that Drake isn't conflicted in killing the people he does. Is it a sociopathic "Me, or them" or is it heroic. It doesn't need to be the focus of the game, just an insight into his psyche that has been actively ignored.
- It doesn't mean that the games aren't enjoyable, or that they don't have great stories. But where Drake is relatable, or at least understandable, in most aspects, his willingness to kill, I think, should be more than touched on in that single line at the end of Uncharted 2.
Anyway, I hope that's helpful for people confused about the dissonance concept.
ScionOfTheRisingSun
Banned
When "gamers" en masse started to care more about the characters in a game rather than gameplay the shit hit the fan and covered this confused industry, which suffers from a bad case of identity crisis.
As for who is to blame, well from the trajectory it is the simplest thing to ascertain from which where that bloated shit was flung.
SolidSnakex
Member
Except that isn't true. Even if you consider Uncharted a gme that's more about characters than gameplay, it's not among the most popular games. Every single year the most popular games are those where story means very little to them. Like CoD (multiplayer) or sports games. Games that have a big emphasis on story are rarely in the top 10 best sellers anywhere in the world.
Lest we forget the fake HL3 trademark which brought GAF down and also gave it it's highest simultaneous vistor count iirc
Yep it's stupid for sure...just like arguing about how a character should feel remorse about shooting people in a Third Person Shooter.
If you can't understand the difference between a video game and real life, no matter how much you start connecting with a character or how much you like him/her...put down the controller and step away from it. It surely can't be healthy. Uncharted also has a different vibe than a serious toned game like TLOU. It's pretty much Indiana J like game at the end of the day.
And can't you see that you yourself are making rational arguments to cover up killing in other franchises? Being a soldier Master Chief has to kill, being a treasure hunter Drake also kills to survive. But at the end of the day the few who are over analyzing are doing just that, over analyzing. This is a video game
But I agree the whoever the mod that changed the title really fucked up and gloriously derailed this thread
GIANKRATOS
Member
Red Chocobo
Banned
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes
Member
wow looks amazing. Thanks for sharing! Hoping this game will be really good.