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[KePoW]

I'm all for sexualization in video games, I have no problem admitting it. There's no right or wrong.

Think of it this way -- In real life, I love women who wear revealing clothing. And believe it or not, tons of women wear that kind of stuff all the time. (I live in Texas where it's extremely hot & humid so it's very common)

So why wouldn't I like female characters in video games wearing revealing clothing??

Some of you GAFers make it sound like there's no sexualization in real world media. What do you think the Modeling business is based on? Victoria's Secret? For those of you in America, have you seen the recent run of Hardees TV commercials? (go to Youtube and search "hardees commercial" or "carls jr commercial")

I love that stuff, so why can't some video games be the same way?

 

[Sami+]

Exactly. And it gets old.

If people are gonna bash sexuality in video games, then they should do the same for bashing brutal violence in games too. It's only fair.

"I don't like anchovy pizza, it's gross"
"but you like cheese pizza"
"... yeah?"
"if you're gonna bash one you should bash the other, it's only fair."

Still completely lost on this one. Seriously. What the hell does violence have to do with sex?

 

[cm osi]

I like it when it's just there for fun or as cheesecake. It only really bothers me when the game attempts to self-rationalize it. Like Quiet in the upcoming MGS game, or Catherine was another.

If you revel in what you do it can be fun and silly, but justifying it feels very gross.

well, catherine is a succubus...you know what they do...

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

What the hell does violence have to do with sex?

They're antithetical.
Sex is a creative energy, Violence is a destructive one.

I think it is entirely logical to question why people would find a destructive force more socially acceptable than a creative one.

 

[Painguy]

Unlike the Knights of Social Injustice™ I don't apply real world politics to videogames because at the end of the day you have to take a long look in the mirror and realize you are applying your own real life problems/agenda(whatever it may be) to a bunch of fucking non-existent pixels.

A friend of mine once joked(about 10 years ago) that The Mushroom Kingdom is possibly a form of genocide or gentrification because the "toad(stool)s" are just the evolution or the "Rich White People" version of the goombas(the poor, less well-off toadstools). Then he went on explain that argument in GREAT DETAIL. It blew my mind. But at the end of the day, we were just joking and both laughed it off.

Videogames exist in a vaccum. Just because the graphics get better and the characters look more and more like real people doesn't change that.

I used to love Destructoid back in 2007 when their motto was "STFUAJPG(STFU and Just Play Games)" and even Dtoid has moved away from that in favor of clickbait/pagehits with the whole social justice thing.

Whatever happened to just enjoying videogames? :/

I feel like I'm the only one here who agrees with what you siad. I feel that many people are insecure these days. They let any little thing upset them. People need to relax.

 

[Crash Station]

There is no line for me, but I don't exactly play games for that kind of titillation. If you gave me a well-designed game in a genre I like that just happened to go to the very extremes of woman or man objectification, I'd play it regardless.

 

[fedexpeon]

Women, transpeople, and people outside the binary gender norm get loads of shit IRL on a regular basis. We don't need our video games compounding the problem by making it difficult for people to escape in them because of dumb and stupid sexist elements.

You mean hermaphrodite? Or is there another classification that I am missing: M/F/T/Both.
I don't think there is any game that makes it is difficult for transgender and hermaphrodite to enjoy the game due to sexist elements.
Maybe I am wrong, but I can't remember a main character or even side-character with a negative connotation.

I don't see how dressing in a skinny swimming suit on male/female will degrade or compounding the problem because generally, that is how people also escape in real life by going on vacation on a beach or relaxing in the pool/river in a more casual type of clothing.
Games have a lot of those type of clothing, and it presents pretty accurately of our global cultures.

People just need to realize that sometime these characters are self-aware, and are dressed like that because they know they are sexy, and have the body to show it off.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

The problem is not sexuality (and if you've been told it is, you're listening to the wrong people). The problem is fairness and equality. That's it.

Right now 90% of female characters are sexualized in some (usually dumb and impractical) way, compared to some 10% of male characters. The imbalance is massive.
It's not about whether or not it affects us. It's about whether or not it's fair or equitable to the marginalized genders.

Women, transpeople, and people outside the binary gender norm get loads of shit IRL on a regular basis. We don't need our video games compounding the problem by making it difficult for people to escape in them because of dumb and stupid sexist elements.

the world isn't fair. someone born in an african country is much more likely to suffer in life and live in poverty than someone born in the us. and that's just taking in consideration their birthplace. which isn't to say the world is unfair and people aren't allowed to wish for change, but it's easy to fight for "social justice" when you live a privileged life in a first world country and the injustices are people harassing you online or you not being able to play a videogame with a character that represents you as well as you'd like

i mean, if you wanted to say, i defend this and that because it affects people close to me and people i care about, ok. but you are not "fighting" for the fairness factor. there are much bigger "fairness" problems in the world than videogame protagonists not being gay/women/black/fat/whatever

 

[Karkador]

Unlike the Knights of Social Injustice™ I don't apply real world politics to videogames because at the end of the day you have to take a long look in the mirror and realize you are applying your own real life problems/agenda(whatever it may be) to a bunch of fucking non-existent pixels.

A friend of mine once joked(about 10 years ago) that The Mushroom Kingdom is possibly a form of genocide or gentrification because the "toad(stool)s" are just the evolution or the "Rich White People" version of the goombas(the poor, less well-off toadstools). Then he went on explain that argument in GREAT DETAIL. It blew my mind. But at the end of the day, we were just joking and both laughed it off.

Videogames exist in a vaccum. Just because the graphics get better and the characters look more and more like real people doesn't change that.

I used to love Destructoid back in 2007 when their motto was "STFUAJPG(STFU and Just Play Games)" and even Dtoid has moved away from that in favor of clickbait/pagehits with the whole social justice thing.

Whatever happened to just enjoying videogames? :/

First post already demonstrates why we can't have sensible discussions about this on neogaf

 

[Kaybe]

I won't draw any line. As long as the game is good, then whatever. I won't ever complain about this stuff.

 

[Hexa]

I like it when it's just there for fun or as cheesecake. It only really bothers me when the game attempts to self-rationalize it. Like Quiet in the upcoming MGS game, or Catherine was another.

If you revel in what you do it can be fun and silly, but justifying it feels very gross.

Elaborate?

 

[Eteric Rice]

I think we just reached the point were we overanalyze (is that a real word?) everything.

This is how I feel.

I don't really care that much. I do hate the objectification of women in video games simply because it makes me feel like devs and publishers are trying to manipulate me (as a male) with tits and ass rather than make a good game. It's the same thing with anime and fan service. A lot of anime with great ideas often throw fan service at me to the point where I feel like it's over loading whatever substance the show had in the first place.

But whatever, I'll still play my Bayonetta or whatever, so long as it's good.

And don't get me wrong, I like boobs and butts as much as the next guy, but I kind of like looking at that stuff when I'm in the mood to look at it. Don't try to sell me on something with it, you just make me think you're an ass.

 

[Platy]

I'm all for sexualization in video games, I have no problem admitting it. There's no right or wrong.

Think of it this way -- In real life, I love women who wear revealing clothing. And believe it or not, tons of women wear that kind of stuff all the time. (I live in Texas where it's extremely hot & humid so it's very common)

So why wouldn't I like female characters in video games wearing revealing clothing??

Some of you GAFers make it sound like there's no sexualization in real world media. What do you think the Modeling business is based on? Victoria's Secret? For those of you in America, have you seen the recent run of Hardees TV commercials? (go to Youtube and search "hardees commercial" or "carls jr commercial")

I love that stuff, so why can't some video games be the same way?

Because 90% of what you said is incredible problematic and should be changed in a more equal society.

You mean hermaphrodite? Or is there another classification that I am missing: M/F/T/Both.
I don't think there is any game that makes it is difficult for transgender and hermaphrodite to enjoy the game due to sexist elements.
Maybe I am wrong, but I can't remember a main character or even side-character with a negative connotation.

You mean intersexed. Using "Hermaphrodite" for human beings is a slur and factualy incorrect.
Outside of gender binary means a person who does not consider thenselfs male OR female. This means both, neither or 30% one and 70% other.

99% of every character that are not cisgender are RIDICULOUSLY problematic.

 

[Teremap]

What answer can I give you that will allow me to keep seeing women in metal bikinis in my games?

None. Metal bikinis are dumb. Stop defending them.

I'm all in favour of objectification and hyper-sexualisation in video games. I can't think of any game that wouldn't be better if the main character was a woman with porn star proportions, very few clothes, and heels so high that they need little lights on the top to warn passing planes.

If I'm going to spend a lot of time looking at a human, my preference will always be for an attractive woman.

Well, at least you're honest about it! I can appreciate the lack of pretense.

If some confused insecure people decide that polygon creations are an avatar of their sex and are offended because they identify with fictional creations the joke really is on them. To be honest I regard these people and their first world problems the same way as I look at mental patients, minus the sympathy of course.

I draw no line, not in real life nor in fiction, then again I was not raised in that particular part of the world whose cultural tits brainwash those who suckle into being self entitled creatures that get off on being perpetually offended by everything.

Amazing post.

I'm not even sure how to respond to it because it's so devoid of any sort of empathy whatsoever.

Exactly. And it gets old.

If people are gonna bash sexuality in video games, then they should do the same for bashing guns & brutal violence in games too. It's only fair.

I'm not bashing sexuality. Only the unfair application of it towards one sex rather than the other.

the world isn't fair. someone born in an african country is much more likely to suffer in life and live in poverty than someone born in the us. and that's just taking in consideration their birthplace. which isn't to say the world is unfair and people aren't allowed to wish for change, but it's easy to fight for "social justice" when you live a privileged life in a first world country and the injustices are people harassing you online or you not being able to play a videogame with a character that represents you as well as you'd like

i mean, if you wanted to say, i defend this and that because it affects people close to me and people i care about, ok. but you are not "fighting" for the fairness factor. there are much bigger "fairness" problems in the world than videogame protagonists not being gay/women/black/fat/whatever

Wonderful, the old "there are bigger problems to tackle!" straw man. How many times have I seen this before?

I give plenty of shits about those "bigger problems". That's not the topic of this thread. You might wanna stop thread-shitting if you want to continue posting on GAF.

 

[Dice//]

Elaborate?

Catherine is a succubus, quiet is a sniper. Very different job descriptions

 

[zruben]

What I don't get about this argument is how does discussing these topics stop you from enjoying games.

I do fall on the side that human sexuality should be a subject that should be freely explored.

not that guy, but imagine you're eating a full plate of delicious prime steak, and in the middle of it, some vegetarian dude sit next to you and start giving you his opinion.

it will either
a) annoy you
b) take some of the enjoyment away
c) not affect you at all

so yeah, c) is a very viable option, but in the most cases, it's better than they just let you eat alone.

 

[Pudge]

Because 90% of what you said is incredible problematic and should be changed in a more equal society.

Why? Why can't a red blooded male like females in skimpy clothing? Is that too crazy? Are we supposed to be going towards some post apocalyptic future where all our mates are chosen from a list and we wear gray robes and eat food pills? There will always be males who like chicks in bikinis. Thinking otherwise is delusional.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

The whole topic reeks of political objective. In other entertainment mediums, the oppressed or misrepresented group brought about change by making their own creations in that medium and bringing about the equality they wanted. It is true that there were also advocacy groups who were rooting them on but change came from within.

What bothers me about all of the Concern topics and tweets and forum threads is that there really isn't much being done. It's mostly just "this is really bad and you should feel bad that it exists". Either that, or you have lopsided "observations" on the subject matter being propogated by folks like Anita Sarkeesian.

I am 110% in full support of indie game jams or programs or anything that puts actual women in the dev-set for videogames. I am 110% in support of both men and women creating male and female characters that they believe are more fair representations of their respective gender. That's a practical way of addressing the problem. But sitting on the sidelines and having these endless discussions and arguments and #gamersarebigots and #journalistshategamers campaigns ... it's just worthless, a waste of time, an embarassment to the professional element of game development, and embarassing to gamers in general.

not that guy, but imagine you're eating a full plate of delicious prime steak, and in the middle of it, some vegetarian dude sit next to you and start giving you his opinion.

it will either
a) annoy you
b) take some of the enjoyment away
c) not affect you at all

so yeah, c) is a very viable option, but in the most cases, it's better than they just let you eat alone.

Not quite fair. It's a known fact that GAF talked about games more than playing them (jk, jk) but it's more like eating a delicious steak, wanting to learn more about cooking, taking a cooking class, going online to look up some recipes, and then there's that guy who advocates for vegan diets.

Could it still be annoying? Sure. But you've gone out of your way to pursue avenues of discussion; you simply happened upon an opinion that you didn't agree with.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I'm not even sure where slut-shaming would come in, because I'm struggling to think of any female characters with agency AND promiscuity or even initiating sex in-game at all.

 

[HK-47]

I'm a Social Justice Rogue (tm), thank you very much.

But, I'd be okay with Social Justice Ninja or Social Justice Samurai, too. Because they're just plain cool.

Real SJWs multiclass.

 

[Ilúvatar]

Slut shaming is a fabricated buzzword (or words, I guess) that not even feminists can consistently define, so there is no line to be drawn.

As far as objectification goes, they make magazines and other media that objectify men, they make magazines and other media that objectify women. Pick your flavor, and let everyone else pick theirs.

 

[silvermember]

I feel like I'm the only one here who agrees with what you siad. I feel that many people are insecure these days. They let any little thing upset them. People need to relax.

I don't think you know what "insecure" means.

 

[Mael]

not that guy, but imagine you're eating a full plate of delicious prime steak, and in the middle of it, some vegetarian dude sit next to you and start giving you his opinion.

it will either
a) annoy you
b) take some of the enjoyment away
c) not affect you at all

so yeah, c) is a very viable option, but in the most cases, it's better than they just let you eat alone.

Huh?
Did I miss the console update that made the ps3 stop playing inside a game and start a browser with a link to an opinion piece or something?

 

[Kimawolf]

I think objectification and empowerment are fine. People like sex, people like looking at attractiveness, I don't think video games are any different. I think the only problem is that there could be a bit more "Dante's" and "Capt Falcon's" in the world.

I also have no problem with video games being criticized if they are art as many claim they are, but I DO have an issue with trying to change an artist's work so it fits whatever political goal or ideology you happen to follow.

 

[silvermember]

The whole topic reeks of political objective. In other entertainment mediums, the oppressed or misrepresented group brought about change by making their own creations in that medium and bringing about the equality they wanted. It is true that there were also advocacy groups who were rooting them on but change came from within.

What bothers me about all of the Concern topics and tweets and forum threads is that there really isn't much being done. It's mostly just "this is really bad and you should feel bad that it exists". Either that, or you have lopsided "observations" on the subject matter being propogated by folks like Anita Sarkeesian.

I am 110% in full support of indie game jams or programs or anything that puts actual women in the dev-set for videogames. I am 110% in support of both men and women creating male and female characters that they believe are more fair representations of their respective gender. That's a practical way of addressing the problem. But sitting on the sidelines and having these endless discussions and arguments and #gamersarebigots and #journalistshategamers campaigns ... it's just worthless, a waste of time, an embarassment to the professional element of game development, and embarassing to gamers in general.


Not quite fair. It's a known fact that GAF talked about games more than playing them (jk, jk) but it's more like eating a delicious steak, wanting to learn more about cooking, taking a cooking class, going online to look up some recipes, and then there's that guy who advocates for vegan diets.

Could it still be annoying? Sure. But you've gone out of your way to pursue avenues of discussion; you simply happened upon an opinion that you didn't agree with.

You might be watching too much Fox News.

It would be nice to provide an example of an instance in which the second bolded statement is true.

 

[Platy]

Why? Why can't a red blooded male like females in skimpy clothing? Is that too crazy? Are we supposed to be going towards some post apocalyptic future where all our mates are chosen from a list and we wear gray robes and eat food pills? There will always be males who like chicks in bikinis. Thinking otherwise is delusional.

The problem is equal oportunity.

You have basicaly 3 options :

1) You show equal amounts of normal women (including "ugly" ones) and hot ones in bikinis

2) you show equal amount of HOT MEN in thongs next to the hot women in bikinis

3) You show equal amounts of "normal" men and "normal" women.

Red Blooded males should not be the only humans on earth.

 

[Askherserenity]

Guys. Don't you think it's hilarious that we're talking about objectification of women because of a videogame about a sexy witch with glasses and an English accent who summons giant hair demons who eat angels? I find it hilarious.

 

[way more]

Elaborate?

This Slate.com article goes into the reasons. If you disagree please elaborate on why instead of just calling the article clickbait.

In Catherine you have this slut/succubus tyring trick you, your GF fakes a pregnancy to get you marry her or she's just testing you. Playing it you had to wonder, is this how people really view women? The game felt like watching Saved by the Bell as an actual high schooler as opposed to watching it as a below 8 year old. It brings up all these issues but discusses them in ways that are offensive to reality.

But the game doesn’t confront these issues so much as half-ironically drown in them. Vincent, and the game itself, are soaked in insecurity, indecision, stupidity, and above all, fear: fear of commitment, fear of children, fear of sex, and above all, fear of women.

“When there are people like you who spend a lot of time with a partner without commitment,” Dumuzid explains to Vincent, “it impedes the population model. So we separate these non-fruitful couples and redistribute the women to men who can follow the natural order.”

So, because you wouldn’t commit to Katherine and fulfill your biological purpose by having babies, a god tried to break up your relationship by siccing a psycho succubus on you. The upside of all this, though, is that Vincent is innocent! “If the girl doesn’t exist, it’s not cheating!” he says with great relief. Oh, and Katherine’s not pregnant. That was a ruse while she waited for Vincent to confess his affair—which turns out not to have been an affair!—which she knew about the whole time.

I know the game says it only has 3 endings instead of 8, but the rest are just offshoots of the main three.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

First post already demonstrates why we can't have sensible discussions about this on neogaf

Exactly. Dude wondered why we can't just relax a little and actually try to enjoy a game for once. How do you reason with someone so irrational?

 

[NoCryingUntilTheEnd]

Is it a real person deciding what she is wearing ?

Slut shaming.

It is a character designed by other people in clothing that does not makes sense ?

Objectification

So what you're saying is that the actions of a video game character cannot be judged?

 

[Orayn]

I think you two may be responding to different things.

not that guy, but imagine you're eating a full plate of delicious prime steak, and in the middle of it, some vegetarian dude sit next to you and start giving you his opinion.

it will either
a) annoy you
b) take some of the enjoyment away
c) not affect you at all

so yeah, c) is a very viable option, but in the most cases, it's better than they just let you eat alone.

zruben is answering how in-game content can bother people.

Huh?
Did I miss the console update that made the ps3 stop playing inside a game and start a browser with a link to an opinion piece or something?

Mael is agreeing that discussions about game content that bothers people is unobtrusive.

 

[Teremap]

The whole topic reeks of political objective. In other entertainment mediums, the oppressed or misrepresented group brought about change by making their own creations in that medium and bringing about the equality they wanted. It is true that there were also advocacy groups who were rooting them on but change came from within.

What bothers me about all of the Concern topics and tweets and forum threads is that there really isn't much being done. It's mostly just "this is really bad and you should feel bad that it exists". Either that, or you have lopsided "observations" on the subject matter being propogated by folks like Anita Sarkeesian.

I am 110% in full support of indie game jams or programs or anything that puts actual women in the dev-set for videogames. I am 110% in support of both men and women creating male and female characters that they believe are more fair representations of their respective gender. That's a practical way of addressing the problem. But sitting on the sidelines and having these endless discussions and arguments and #gamersarebigots and #journalistshategamers campaigns ... it's just worthless, a waste of time, an embarassment to the professional element of game development, and embarassing to gamers in general.

The problem with this mindset is that the games industry is not just unwelcoming, but downright hostile to women who want to get into it. The whole #GamerGate fiasco exemplifies this with the level of sheer vitriol being sent in the direction of women in general.

 

[Pudge]

The problem is equal oportunity.

You have basicaly 3 options :

1) You show equal amounts of normal women (including "ugly" ones) and hot ones in bikinis

2) you show equal amount of HOT MEN in thongs next to the hot women in bikinis

3) You show equal amounts of "normal" men and "normal" women.

Red Blooded males should not be the only humans on earth.

Since when did entertainment turn into a political campaign? The real world isn't equal. Creators should be able to create what the want. The real problem is that there aren't enough women in the industry making games, and having endless debates and sparking the ire of game fans for enjoying their male oriented products is only making the problem worse.

Guys. Don't you think it's hilarious that we're talking about objectification of women because of a videogame about a sexy witch with glasses and an English accent who summons giant hair demons who eat angels? I find it hilarious.

I really do love the absurdity. It's one of the reasons I love games, and why I shake my head when people take them so seriously.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

I give plenty of shits about those "bigger problems". That's not the topic of this thread. You might wanna stop thread-shitting if you want to continue posting on GAF.

first, i've been posting under this account on this domain for more than 8 years. i don't think you should be giving me advice on posting habits

second, backseat modding is an offense. you are not a moderator. accusing people of "thread shitting" isn't exactly nice either

third, none of what i posted is false nor is it in any way, shape or form an offense. i could be banned because the mods can technically ban people for anything. but that doesn't change a thing. you can defend whatever you want. but you are not doing it because it is unfair. pointing out that your motivation is not what you claim to be is, in fact, on topic. you are doing it because it either affects you or people close to you. you are not the paladin of fairness your previous post attempted to imply. it is what it is, whether i am banned, unbanned or not replying to any more of your posts

 

[III-V]

You pulled me back in.

The point of the OP is that an openly sexualised woman would find herself ideologically condemned by BOTH the misogynistic concept of slut-shaming AND ALSO condemned by the feminist abhorrence of the objectification of women..

I went back and re-read the OP 5 times, but I did not get the same suggestion. In fact, I am still unsure what the topic is. My best guess is this:

I am simply curious about your honest stance when it comes to objectifying vs. empowerment. If you like games that feature hypersexualized women, fanservice and/or women in revealing clothing (whether it is contextual or not) that's fine. If you take strong issue with those elements or design choices that is just as valid.

My takeaway is that OP wants to know whether you like games that feature hyper sexualized women or If you take strong issue with those elements.

Because human sexuality is a personal and complex issue that isn't easily categorised into one ideological camp or another.

I am in complete agreement here.

P.S. there is plenty of male objectification in games as well (and it doesn't bother me in the least bit) and armor that doesn't work like barbarian or wizard in RPG setting. Most of the armor, outfits etc. for male or female characters is fantasy based.

 

[LouisaFerre]

I only dislike it if it breaks the tone of the game, and I don't really like when the games don't have anything else to offer, since it just makes them kind of tedious and a waste of my money. However, I'm fine with developers putting sexualization into their games, even if it's not the type that appeals to me. I'm not offended by it, and I kind of think it's stupid to take it so seriously. If it's something I dislike or something that doesn't appeal to me, at most I'll just not buy it, If there are other people who like it, cool. They can enjoy it and the developers can cater to them if they like.

I'm not obligated to support any developer, so no developer is obligated to cater to me, as far as I'm concerned. I just vote with my wallet.

 

[Ramstein]

Finally, if you made it this far then please understand that there is no wrong answer here

Apparently, there is. Seeing as how everyone's losing their shit over my opinion. Oh well. I guess freedom of speech is only a good thing if it's something everyone agrees with.

 

[Mael]

Exactly. Dude wondered why we can't just relax a little and actually try to enjoy a game for once. How do you reason with someone so irrational?

Isn't that what we were all doing for like nearly 3 decades? relax a little and try to enjoy a game?
That's pretty much all we've been doing so far.

I think you two may be responding to different things.



zruben is answering how in-game content can bother people.



Mael is agreeing that discussions about game content that bothers people is unobtrusive.

I didn't read it that way but ok, I'm not trying to pick a fight anyway.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Apparently, there is. Seeing as how everyone's losing their shit over my opinion. Oh well. I guess freedom of speech is only a good thing if it's something everyone agrees with.

You're free to speak

We're free to see what you say as dumb

 

[SaintGalgo]

I think there is still a lot of minsunderstanding about how this affects other people. It seems that many people just say, "I'm not bothered by the woman wearing hardly anything, having a flat personality, and being there just for heterosexual male titillation, so I don't see what the problem is." People need to learn about empathy. It makes some women uncomfortable, and it makes some men uncomfortable. If it keeps being brought up, and it makes a lot of people upset, isn't that a problem? I think the answer is pretty clear.

I'm not always sure whether something is going too far, though. I suppose that could be pretty grey.

This. That's exactly it. People are missing the point. Saying you "don't care" and "love half-naked women" is fine, but just... have some empathy. People have the right to feel uncomfortable.

 

[Lolicon]

I'm all for sexualization in video games, I have no problem admitting it. There's no right or wrong.

Think of it this way -- In real life, I love women who wear revealing clothing. And believe it or not, tons of women wear that kind of stuff all the time. (I live in Texas where it's extremely hot & humid so it's very common)

So why wouldn't I like female characters in video games wearing revealing clothing??

Some of you GAFers make it sound like there's no sexualization in real world media. What do you think the Modeling business is based on? Victoria's Secret? For those of you in America, have you seen the recent run of Hardees TV commercials? (go to Youtube and search "hardees commercial" or "carls jr commercial")

I love that stuff, so why can't some video games be the same way?

And girls also love to sexualize themselves to compete with other women and get male attention. In Spain, it's a very common sight to see girls walking around in short shorts with parts of their bare buttocks hanging out for all to see - they know very well what they're doing and what signals they send out with such clothing.

Since games are commercial products, characters are often created for attracting as many customers as possible. And great looking girls always have strong attraction.

Then of course what is "great looking" is very subjective.

 

[Prototype]

I think people who make such a big deal out of skimpy girls in games have wasted a lot of their life and energy. From time to time I enjoy some sex appeal in my games.

Also in my movies, books and music. Oh my.

 

[HoJu]

Apparently, there is. Seeing as how everyone's losing their shit over my opinion. Oh well. I guess freedom of speech is only a good thing if it's something everyone agrees with.

you do know that freedom of speech doesn't exclude others from criticizing your beliefs, right?

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

Actually I change my answer, I know exactly where I'd draw the line.

Right here, on my dick.

Suck on that modern society!

 

[Pudge]

This. That's exactly it. People are missing the point. Saying you "don't care" and "love half-naked women" is fine, but just... have some empathy. People have the right to feel uncomfortable.

People have the right to be offended sure. What people don't have the right to do is go after creators and fans of the offensive work and fight to have it removed from the public eye, or to fight with creators to change their games away from their vision when they're in development. That's the real shame, that all these people on the Internet feel like they're entitled not to be offended. It's that kind of thinking that got Lenny Bruce arrested.

 

[Teremap]

So what you're saying is that the actions of a video game character cannot be judged?

You don't judge the fictional character, you judge the people who made that character and wrote their motivations.

Exactly. Dude wondered why we can't just relax a little and actually try to enjoy a game for once. How do you reason with someone so irrational?

I have been relaxing and enjoying my games this whole time. I didn't know I suddenly became stuck-up as soon as I started talking about things I didn't like about them.

[snip]

Look, this is a waste of time. I'm going to keep discussing the topic. You can actually try to keep up or keep wasting more time with nonsense that has nothing to do with the thread topic, your choice.

And no, my motivations for posting are not the topic of this thread. Cripes.

P.S. there is plenty of male objectification in games as well (and it doesn't bother me in the least bit) and armor that doesn't work like barbarian or wizard in RPG setting. Most of the armor, outfits etc. for male or female characters is fantasy based.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

You might be watching too much Fox News.

Gender equality is an inherently political idea, and it's not the first time that politics have imposed themselves upon the world of videogaming (Jack Thompson and the whole "videogame violence causes real violence" lobby, lawsuits against Nintendo in the late '80s and early '90s, etc)

Videogames are played by roughly 50% male and 50% female. Is there a general outcry amongst the female population for this sort of change, or is it a fringe advocacy group pushing very hard and talking very loudy? That is how a political movement works. The best ones are the ones that don't appear to be "political".

It would be nice to provide an example of an instance in which the second bolded statement is true.

Women in film, both acting and directing and scripting? Women in photograpy? Women in music? It wasn't people on the sidelines shouting "geez, Music Industry! You need to have a healthier representation of women's attitudes and desires and sexuality in music!" Rather, artists like Madonna and Joan Baez and Janis Joplin simply jumped in and began sharing their message.

The problem with this mindset is that the games industry is not just unwelcoming, but downright hostile to women who want to get into it. The whole #GamerGate fiasco exemplifies this with the level of sheer vitriol being sent in the direction of women in general.

That's a gross misrepresentation of the truth. Women have been in the game industry since the beginning and continue to participate in top-authority positions. I would love to see examples of the hostility from the game industry toward women who want to get involved. I would say that the "hostility" in STEM fields in general towards women is what reduces the overall number of women in the game industry (an industry that is highly driven by technology). Angry tweets and forum posts on the internet does not equate to an entire industry of hate towards a gender.

 

[Dice]

A lot of religious themes/elements make a lot of people uncomfortable. Should we denounce/reject those things in games for sake of empathy as well?

 

[fedexpeon]

The problem is equal oportunity.

You have basicaly 3 options :

1) You show equal amounts of normal women (including "ugly" ones) and hot ones in bikinis

2) you show equal amount of HOT MEN in thongs next to the hot women in bikinis

3) You show equal amounts of "normal" men and "normal" women.

You need to define equal opportunity more clearly.
Is it a 1 to 1 ratio you want your 3 options to represent?
Or at least a minimum of one normal/ugly to be represented in the scene?
And what is a normal woman? The girl next door look? The girl without makeup? The girl with casual clothing?

Isn't this all subjective anyway? Normal, ugly, and hot? Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

I need some picture of normal looking men/women because I don't know what normal means.

 

[ipukespiders]

Metal bikinis are dumb. Stop defending them.

The winning team is stacked with offense and it doesn't need a defense.