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[Weetrick]

A 10-year-old being charged as an adult? the fuck.

At 10 years old, you know enough about right and wrong to avoid beating up a 90 year old.
The kid needs mental help badly.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

People that are saying he should be tried as an adult must not be around kids very often. Ridic

 

[hodgy100]

People need to decide on an age where people are to be held accountable then. Is it 13 or 14? 15 or 16? If I had decided to kill someone when I was 10 I would have known exactly what I was doing.

Ideally its something that should be evaluated on an individual basis. as setting a hard line with an age isn't really applicable to everyone.

 

[vas_a_morir]

I'm not sure he should be tried as an adult, but I also remember being 10. I knew exactly what was right and wrong. Especially when it was as wrong as this is.

I dunno. Would you feel comfortable applying this logic to statutory rape cases?

 

[Diablos]

At only 10 years old he needs to be psychologically evaluated from now until all the way through adolescence.They need to keep an eye on him. Locking up a 10 year old is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Nexus Zero]

By all means, link us to your sources so that we all might educate ourselves.

Sure thing, I'll go ahead and link you to conversations I've had.

Wot wiki says

ASPD is considered to be among the most difficult personality disorders to treat. Because of their very low or absent capacity for remorse, individuals with ASPD often lack sufficient motivation and fail to see the costs associated with antisocial acts.

They may only simulate remorse rather than truly commit to change: they can be seductively charming and dishonest, and may manipulate staff and fellow patients during treatment.

Like robots. I'm not arguing this kid is a sociopath, I'm arguing that particular disorder isn't like the majority of mental health issues.

 

[Coriolanus]

Ideally its something that should be evaluated on an individual basis. as setting a hard line with an age isn't really applicable to everyone.

The sad thing is that the hard line is usually put in place explicitly to avoid cases like this.

 

[Corronchilejano]

People need to decide on an age where people are to be held accountable then. Is it 13 or 14? 15 or 16? If I had decided to kill someone when I was 10 I would have known exactly what I was doing.

I don't think he decided to kill her. He DID aggresively attack her, but I doubt killing is what he expected to do. Usually when kids fight and punch each other, they don't kill themselves.

That's why people state a 10 year old shouldn't be tried as an adult. Because he still has a lot to even understand about the world. When I was 10 I was just figuring out that people didn't just die of old age, bullet or knife wounds.

It's a kid, he needs counseling. He fucked up, and now the system is going to go ahead and finish the job.

 

[Chainsawkitten]

Fun fact:
Countries that have ratified the United Nations' Convention on the Rights of the Child. (Forbids eg. life imprisonment without parole for children and forbids children "from performing any work that is likely to be hazardous or to interfere with the child's education, or to be harmful to the child's health or physical, mental, spiritual, moral or social development. " like agricultural child labour.) (Articles 32 and 37)

(Image source: Wikipedia)
Green - Ratified
Purple - Signed but not ratified
Orange - Not signed

This isn't to say the countries who have ratified it actually live up to it. Saudi Arabia does not respect the rights of a child and are on the list of the nine countries who have executed juveniles since 1990: People's Republic of China (PRC), Democratic Republic of the Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United States and Yemen. But at least most countries can claim to try.

Also, the two other countries on that map are South Sudan (which approved it in parliament in 2013 but still needs the presidents signature) and Somalia (which adpoted it last month but still needs the Federal Goverment's ratification). In other words, in a year or two, US may be the only country not on the map.

 

[grumble]

Ideally its something that should be evaluated on an individual basis. as setting a hard line with an age isn't really applicable to everyone.

Should ANY ten year old be thought of as an adult under any reasonable review system?

 

[Rich!]

Should ANY ten year old be thought of as an adult under any reasonable review system?

In my opinion, no.

 

[Drencrom]

Same

What the fuck, people? I'm seriously disturbed by the people who want to lock a 10 year old in jail for life.

From Wikipedia

Rehabilitation, working towards future reintegration, mental and emotional help, is what this child needs, not being thrown in fucking jail for the rest of his life

This, throwing a child in prison for life is something to expect from a third-world country.

 

[Coriolanus]

Sure thing, I'll go ahead and link you to conversations I've had.

Wot wiki says

Like robots. I'm not arguing this kid is a sociopath, I'm arguing that particular disorder isn't like the majority of mental health issues.

Diagnosis
DSM-IV-TR

The APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM-IV-TR), defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B):[7]

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

Fucksake mate, at least TRY.

 

[Two Words]

10 is old enough to know you're seriously injuring and can possibly kill another person.

Try him as an adult, don't really see much of a future for him anyways.

Ok so what is the point of being tried as a child? You know that as a 5 year old too.

 

[Jarnet87]

It most definitely is in some cases, where mental illness is concerned and where circumstances forced the situation to happen. What if the kid was being molested or beaten? Or what if he has severe autism? Should he still go to a federal prison? Sadly, some think he should.

and what if he wasn't molested/abused and has no mental illness? What if he is just a normal 10 year old kid who got mad at his grandmother for yelling at him and wanted to kill her. Would prison then be justified?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Couldn't it be possible that the woman had been emotionally and even physically abusive and the kid had enough? Nooo, couldn't be. Old ladies are sweet and harmless. Not to be held to the standards of everyone else at all.

You don't get to beat people to death with a cane in any case. Blindly throwing in justification for murderers seems to be a regular occurrence in these threads though.

He should be in counseling/lockup until he's 21, imagine if he snapped like that on a classmate?

 

[Rich!]

and what if he wasn't molested/abused and has no mental illness? What if he is just a normal 10 year old kid who got mad at his grandmother for yelling at him and wanted to kill her. Would prison then be justified?

Of course it wouldn't be justified.

I knocked my mum out around that age because she wouldn't buy me an icecream whilst in France. I went absolutely mental at her. Did I get thrown into prison? No, I got help when I got back to school, and I got support. I'm now at a point where I can think back on the situation and regret it, but back then? No way did I understand what the implications would be, all that was in my mind was "I'M PISSED OFF, FUCKING BITCH".

If I had even ended up in prison for five years, my life would have been absolutely ruined. Now I'm in line for a high paid job, I have a daughter, I have a great relationship with my family and it's all due to genuine support and understanding of mental issues - which america seemingly don't offer in any way whatsoever.

 

[Weetrick]

Should ANY ten year old be thought of as an adult under any reasonable review system?

Can you imagine what a 10 year old would be like in 20+ years, having grown up in prison for murder? Kid needs to get help while he is still impressionable.

 

[Rich!]

Can you imagine what a 10 year old would be like in 20+ years, having grown up in prison for murder? Kid needs to get help while he is still impressionable.

If I had been sent to prison at that age, I would be on the streets right now. Seriously.

 

[Mesousa]

and what if he wasn't molested/abused and has no mental illness? What if he is just a normal 10 year old kid who got mad at his grandmother for yelling at him and wanted to kill her. Would prison then be justified?

There is never a justification for locking up a 10 year old child.

 

[SliceSabre]

Its an awful thing the kid did and he clearl needs help.

But trying him as an adult? Hell no. He's freaking 10! I mean where's the freaking line at that point? why even have juvie? Anyone who thinks 10 year old need to be tried as adults and locked up for the rest of their lives need to get their heads checked and fucking educated because they are disgusting people.

 

[Drencrom]

10 is old enough to know you're seriously injuring and can possibly kill another person.

Try him as an adult, don't really see much of a future for him anyways.

What a horrible and inhumane perspective, how old are you?

Why not just execute him if putting him in prison for life is the solution, effectively robbing him of any opportunities in life he could achieve with rehabilitation and mental help?

 

[hodgy100]

Should ANY ten year old be thought of as an adult under any reasonable review system?

In my opinion, no.

no they shouldn't, that isn't what I'm saying but say a stated age where a deeper assessment is made if a child is older than 14 (arbitrary number). so yeah you have a lower limit, to cut out stuff like this, but because maturity is fluid a deeper analysis of the child / situation should be made past a certain age to decide whether they are tied as a child or adult

 

[AuthenticM]

good

no

 

[kai3345]

What the fuck at some of the responses in this thread. The kid is 10. He needs mental help, not fucking jail time.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Murder is never forgivable.

And yet people do it all of the time

t would be easy — expected, even — for Mary Johnson and Oshea Israel to be enemies. After all, he killed Johnson's only son, in 1993. He went to prison for that — and toward the end of his sentence, he and Johnson made peace.

As a teenager in Minneapolis, Israel was involved with gangs and drugs. One night at a party, he got into a fight with Laramiun Byrd, 20, and shot and killed him. Oshea is now 34; he finished serving his prison sentence for murder about a year and a half ago.

Israel recently visited StoryCorps with Johnson, to discuss their relationship — and the forgiveness it is built upon. As Johnson recalls, their first face-to-face conversation took place at Stillwater Prison, when Israel agreed to her repeated requests to see him.

"I wanted to know if you were in the same mindset of what I remembered from court, where I wanted to go over and hurt you," Johnson tells Israel. "But you were not that 16-year-old. You were a grown man. I shared with you about my son."

"And he became human to me," Israel says.

At the end of their meeting at the prison, Johnson was overcome by emotion.

"The initial thing to do was just try and hold you up as best I can," Israel says, "just hug you like I would my own mother."

Johnson says, "After you left the room, I began to say, 'I just hugged the man that murdered my son.'

"And I instantly knew that all that anger and the animosity, all the stuff I had in my heart for 12 years for you — I knew it was over, that I had totally forgiven you."

Johnson founded From Death To Life: Two Mothers Coming Together for Heal­ing, a support group for mothers who have lost their children to violence.

And for Israel, Johnson's forgiveness has brought both changes and challenges to his life.

"Sometimes I still don't know how to take it," he says, "because I haven't totally forgiven myself yet. It's something that I'm learning from you. I won't say that I have learned yet, because it's still a process that I'm going through."

"I treat you as I would treat my son," Johnson says. "And our relationship is beyond belief."

In fact, the two live right next door to one another in Minneapolis.

"So you can see what I'm doing — you know firsthand," Israel says.

And if he falls out of touch, Israel is sure to hear about it from Johnson — who calls out to him, he says, "'Boy, how come you ain't called over here to check on me in a couple of days? You ain't even asked me if I need my garbage to go out!' "

"Uh-huh," Johnson says with a laugh.

"I find those things funny, because it's a relationship with a mother for real," Israel says.

"Well, my natural son is no longer here. I didn't see him graduate. Now you're going to college. I'll have the opportunity to see you graduate," Johnson says. "I didn't see him getting married. Hopefully one day, I'll be able to experience that with you."

Hearing her say those things, Israel says, gives him a reason to reach his goals.

"It motivates me to make sure that I stay on the right path," he says. "You still believe in me. And the fact that you can do it, despite how much pain I caused you — it's amazing."

But Israel is not the only one who's impressed.

"I know it's not an easy thing, you know, to be able to share our story together," Johnson says. "Even with us sitting here looking at each other right now, I know it's not an easy thing. So I admire that you can do this."

"I love you, lady."

"I love you too, son."

The kid needs mental help. Throwing him in prison for the rest of his life is not going to solve anything and will actually make things worse. The only thing it will do is soothe our barbaric lust for revenge and "justice." It won't do anything to solve the kid's issues.

 

[Weetrick]

If I had been sent to prison at that age, I would be on the streets right now. Seriously.

Of course. Somebody sent to prison that young is going to be ruined forever. It will end with more harm done to himself, others and society as a whole.

 

[AuthenticM]

What the fuck at some of the responses in this thread. The kid is 10. He needs mental help, not fucking jail time.

Exactly.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

He deserves punishment but not the same as what an adult would get. I don't think any 10 year old knows they can kill someone that easily. An adult would understand and should be punished accordingly.

 

[Khaos_Knight]

That's a nice string of assumptions you've stacked up there.

Fundamentally broken kid -> is a natural born killer -> intentionally killed Grandma -> is a clear and present danger to others -> will get even more dangerous the longer he's free -> must be imprisoned.

When something is ''defective'', you try to fix it before throwing it away.
Locking the kid up will just make him worse and likely turn him into a serial killer like you said, while sending him to mental institution will give him a chance to turn his life around and become a normal human being.
Is it too hard to understand this?

I didn't say that he needed to be in prison, he just needs to be kept away from the rest of society. He definitely should spend the rest of his life in a mental institution instead of a prison.

What part of grandma refusing medical service do you not understand?

What part of him choking his grandmother with a cane and then punching her do you not understand? His actions directly led to her death. If I knock a guy out and he later dies from traumatic brain injury, it doesn't matter if he refused to get medical health, I'm still directly responsible for his death

 

[Wiktor]

Should ANY ten year old be thought of as an adult under any reasonable review system?

Personally I think in such cases the kid should be sent to mental facility till he's adult and then the court should decide if after reaching 18 he should go to regular jail.
But modern world is so fucked up and some kids can be true monsters, that there should be an option to trial 10 years old as an adult, just an option used in extremely rare circumstances

 

[rashbeep]

What's good about that? The kid is only 10 years old. He shouldn't have to spend the rest of his life behind bars because of something he did when he was 10.

Uhh he fucking killed someone??

 

[Jarnet87]

no they shouldn't, that isn't what I'm saying but say a stated age where a deeper assessment is made if a child is older than 14 (arbitrary number). so yeah you have a lower limit, to cut out stuff like this, but because maturity is fluid a deeper analysis of the child / situation should be made past a certain age to decide whether they are tied as a child or adult

yeah that sounds better than just instantly locking the kid up. With this case the child was 10, maybe give him counseling and keep him under supervision for 3 or 4 years, maybe even longer, say til he is 15 or 16 and then go back and evaluate.

 

[Samara]

I don't know, there's this american serial killer who started at around twelve and will get out of jail in five years or so. ( he used crack and went around killing/raping women for two years.) Shit's crazy for sure

Sure there is difference between second/first degree, this kid needs help but he needs to stay in there a while.

 

[SliceSabre]

Uhh he fucking killed someone??

Uhhh he's fucking ten??

 

[Wiktor]

how is it ignorant?

Because you're making wild judgments about something incredibly seriois with scraps of information, that's why.

 

[Rich!]

I didn't say that he needed to be in prison, he just needs to be kept away from the rest of society. He definitely should spend the rest of his life in a mental institution instead of a prison.

No. He most definitely should not. Again, I've had far more experience with mental health than most here.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to argue with people here. I give up.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So I assume it would be ok to pee on this kid too, correct? If you want to give him life in prison, that is.

 

[More_Badass]

Uhh he fucking killed someone??

I'm not diminishing the crime, but it's a god damn ten year old child. There's a reason why juvenile court and juvie focuses on rehabilitation and helping children towards future integration with society

I can't believe I'm debating with people that we shouldn't put a 10 year old in jail for life. This isn't fucking North Korea. Jesus Christ

 

[Protein]

You think this is bad? I know people that are calling for his execution. Insanity.

 

[grumble]

Personally I think in such cases the kid should be sent to mental facility till he's adult and then the court should decide if after reaching 18 he should go to regular jail.
But modern world is so fucked up and some kids can be true monsters, that there should be an option to trial 10 years old as an adult, just an option used in extremely rare circumstances

It is a flaw in human psychology that children get treated as adults if what they did was bad enough. If the crime was minor however then they are not. Either treat every child as an adult for every crime or none. A lot of ten year olds stealing but they don't get sent to jail for ten years.

Seriously, I'm surprised and depressed that we're even having a discussion about the appropriateness of trying a ten year old as an adult. They are way before even beng teenagers. They're playing with transformers and barbies. Some of them can't even tie their shoes yet.

 

[CadetMahoney]

A 10 year old should not be tried as an adult.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I don't know, there's this american serial killer who started at around twelve and will get out of jail in five years or so. ( he used crack and went around killing/raping women for two years.) Shit's crazy for sure

Sure there is difference between second/first degree, this kid needs help but he needs to stay in there a while.

Never heard of this one. Source?

Uhh he fucking killed someone??

There are murder degrees you know?

 

[Alienous]

People need to decide on an age where people are to be held accountable then. Is it 13 or 14? 15 or 16? If I had decided to kill someone when I was 10 I would have known exactly what I was doing.

Take it the other way. If this was a 9, or 8 year old, would you think differently? 7 or 6?

It isn't that simple to have a definitive age for the transition into 'adult criminal'.

 

[Lv99 Slacker]

Disturbed by this thread on multiple levels.

Seriously. What the fuck.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Piece of shit.

We have such a wonderful community.

 

[Corronchilejano]

We have such a wonderful community.

People have differing opinions, surprise.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I'm not diminishing the crime, but it's a god damn ten year old child. There's a reason why juvenile court and juvie focuses on rehabilitation and helping children towards future integration with society

I can't believe I'm debating with people that we shouldn't put a 10 year old in jail for life. This isn't fucking North Korea. Jesus Christ

It's worse than North Korea. We claim to have a better I understanding of freedom. We should know better.

If the story is correct, would you expect someone to die for choking them for seconds and punching them in the stomach and throat?

Unless this kid is Arnold Schwarzenegger, those actions don't lead to a death, mostly. 180lb teenager, maybe, but a 10 year old?

I would assume he wanted to hurt her but it's stretching it to assume he knew his actions would cause death. What 10 year old knows a punch will cause death?

Did she die of a heart attack? She was alive for some time, enough to talk and refuse treatment.

As an adult, that would push this to manslaughter. Claiming a kid would know these things is baffling. Kids punch each other in the neck. I doubt most 10 year old kids could reasonably predict this lady's death from punching her throat.

 

[mr jones]

The fuck out of here with "charge him like an adult." He's 10 years old. TEN.

That boy needs counseling and guidance. Lots of it. Don't know if he has mental illness, or had a poor upbringing, or whatever, but putting him through the prison system is NOT the way to handle this.

 

[JCX]

We are much to quick to be punitive in this country. He probably needs long term counseling and care, but I don't see what good jail/prison will do for this kid.

There are numerous studies showing that decision making in teenagers is poor relative to adults due to changes in the brain, and this kid just barely hit double digits.

Reminds me of Judge Rules White Girl Will Be Tried as Black Adult