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[Lime]

I think applying this idea to the current situation is preposterous. You suggested a stern denouncement from publishers barely related to the situation would have had the power to prevent the threats. These are individual behaviors which amount to terrorism, and they're deliberately anti-social.

Video game culture, like other culture, suffer from systemic and structural biases which unfortunately undermine non-default people from even existing within the culture without conforming to its hegemonic ideals. These systemic and structural biases are reinforced and curated by video game companies and publications, that constantly reproduce the same power hierarchy and prioritization of worldviews and identities.

Staying silent when you are partly responsible and have a demonstrative influence on this culture is an implicit approval of the status quo. And the status quo is currently that some gamers can't handle a woman making Youtube videos about their luxury hobby.

Game companies and press have convincing reasons for speaking up and taking a stand. Because they have cultural influence and power.

 

[Gator86]

Personally I think it’s shocking that EA, Activision and TakeTwo declined to make any comment against these death threats. Letting the ESA handle it is not enough.

Why would any of the game companies say anything? They'd just risk angering the gamergaters and losing sales or incurring some cyber annoyance from them. Companies aren't people. They don't have morals or empathy. They exist purely to make money. Nothing else matters. If some data comes out definitively showing that this nonsense is costing them money somehow, then they will do something. Until then, they're going to sit in silence.

 

[JDSN]

I do not condone harassing people at all but id be lying if i said i haven't seen people from both camps stepping over the line during the past 2 months, its silly and needs to stop entirely there, sending threats, doxxing people and harassing is wrong no matter who does it.

It doesnt matter who does if your interest is not wanting to reach any kind of conclusion or any kind of examination of the situation, its the Gamergate people disproportionally.

 

[Zia]

A lone employee suddenly represents a whole company?

 

[Zornack]

There are people who are okay with making death threats and bomb threats to further the status quo (the #Gamergaters),

Like, really? I'm no fan of #GG but saying that the few extremists who issues death threats represent the rest of them is lazy and counterproductive.

 

[L4DANathan]

For those who don't think game companies are in part responsible for gamers' dehumanization of women, Manveer Heir (lead designer of ME4) is of this opinion:

emphasis on tacit approval

Yes, these tropes and stereotypes exist. He is wrong in regards to the approval, however. You think half the people defending Anita don't play and enjoy these games, don't watch and enjoy the movies/TV shows? I feel that she has been treated like absolute shit and I would personally beat the shit out of everyone sending her threats if I had the opportunity. That said, what should I do? Should I stop playing/watching/reading everything that could even possibly hint at a somewhat negative stereotype? If that worked, what would we have left? Games/movies/books where everyone is exactly the same, with no personality deviation?

If you're looking for a negative way of viewing a group, big or small, dependent upon pop culture alone, you WILL find it. Whether it's a CREDIBLE issue depends entirely on whether that view permeates the entire industry and more importantly, affects real life. Yes, this whole GamerGate BS definitely demonstrates a great deal of animosity within the community against women and it's most certainly an issue worth addressing. Levying blame onto the pop culture itself is pointless and acting upon it would bring nothing but destruction of what makes that piece of culture valuable artistically. This tweet demonstrates nothing but a shift of blame from the individuals to the medium, when it should be the other way around.

 

[Gestault]

Video game culture, like other culture, suffer from systemic and structural biases which unfortunately undermine non-default people from even existing within the culture without conforming to its hegemonic ideals. These systemic and structural biases are reinforced and curated by video game companies and publications, that constantly reproduce the same power hierarchy and prioritization of worldviews and identities.

Staying silent when you are partly responsible and have a demonstrative influence on this culture is an implicit approval of the status quo. And the status quo is currently that some gamers can't handle a woman making Youtube videos about their luxury hobby.

If you can't grasp the concept of individual action alongside social patterns (particularly anti-social behavior) in a situation like this, then I can't help you. Attributing guilt and causality like this is insane.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

There is no "either side"!

There are people who are okay with making death threats and bomb threats to further the status quo (the #Gamergaters), and then there's everyone else. If you're not a supporter of #Gamergate, congratulations, you're with the rest of rational humanity.

Not every situation has two sides.

Tell me, do you bundle all Muslims with the actions of the extremists? Who are you to say there aren't legitimate people who jumped on #GG because they thought it represented something against corruption, either through tweeting it once or twice or showing it to like minded friends? How many of those people do you think kept up with what's happened?

 

[thesolidshark]

Complete this statement: I benefit from pubs/devs remaining silent on Gamergate because______

I wouldn't say I benefit, but I would worry a little bit that comments from Game companies might say the wrong thing. I don't know how they could screw such a statement up, but I just believe it's possible with some PR out there. And it might be bad to hear an off-the-cuff PR statement that ends up being a statement the game company represented isn't willing to back up later.

Publishers aren't responsible. But they can start doing more to make gaming more positive for women.

Before I lost my thread posting privileges, I wanted to make a thread asking how could we get Microsoft,Sony and Nintendo to start holding annual conventions for making women feel safer in the industry. :/

What suggestions would you have made for the platform holders to do that?

 

[Buzzman]

That's not actually a counterpoint to what I said.

Publishers are staying silent while individuals from the companies are cheering the gaters on, you don't think this has an effect on if they consider this a terrible thing or not?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

There is no "either side"!

There are people who are okay with making death threats and bomb threats to further the status quo (the #Gamergaters), and then there's everyone else. If you're not a supporter of #Gamergate, congratulations, you're with the rest of rational humanity.

Not every situation has two sides.

I feel like the people who cling to the idea of sides in this don't really care about the people being harassed or maybe harassment in general

 

[Oersted]

Like, really? I'm no fan of #GG but saying that the few extremists who issues death threats represent the rest of them is lazy and counterproductive.

Given the nature of this harassment campaign, it kinda does represent them.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

I wish we could stop talking about this. I wish we could stop giving it publicity it doesn't deserve, encouraging this radical behavior. It adds fuel to the fire, and there isn't water to put this flaming bag of crap out.

 

[Lime]

The Entertainment Software Association is a large industry group. It represents the following members

[...]

This is "large-scale and collective denouncement across the board". That is exactly what this is. The biggest gaming companies publicly denouncing the actions against women. That is what you want, right?

ESA is an industry organization that unfortunately doesn't have much influence on consumers. It is commendable that they strive to condemn Gamergate and all the bigots involved, but it would be even better if the big power holders like EA, Activision, TakeTwo, notable developers and the bigger media outlets like IGN, Gamespot, etc..

ESA is not enough. I wish it was, but it isn't.

 

[Oddduck]

Why would any of the game companies say anything? They'd just risk angering the gamergaters and losing sales or incurring some cyber annoyance from them. Companies aren't people. They don't have morals or empathy. They exist purely to make money. Nothing else matters. If some data comes out definitively showing that this nonsense is costing them money somehow, then they will do something. Until then, they're going to sit in silence.

This.

Companies won't speak on a subject if there is a risk of losing sales.

Companies will only speak on a subject if data shows it is costing them money.

It's just the way things are.

 

[Zeth]

Like, really? I'm no fan of #GG but saying that the few extremists who issues death threats represent the rest of them is lazy and counterproductive.

Buckle up and get on board because that is the narrative.

 

[CastorTroy]

Really confused why EA or any other game company would be expected to comment on this. It's not like Anita works for them, or the death threats were issued by employees or something.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I feel like the people who cling to the idea of sides in this don't really care about the people being harassed or maybe harassment in general

I see people that claim that "there is no sides" saying rethoric with "us or against" without irony... maybe generalizations are not working at all?

 

[Aeana]

Tell me, do you bundle all Muslims with the actions of the extremists? Who are you to say there aren't legitimate people who jumped on #GG because they thought it represented something against corruption, either through tweeting it once or twice or showing it to like minded friends? How many of those people do you think kept up with what's happened?

The majority of the movement picked it up without actually educating themselves. These are mostly well-meaning people who haven't done anything wrong themselves. Continued support, however, is most certainly endorsement of actions associated with it, whether they are actually doing it or not. It's time for the reasonable people to distance themselves from the movement the best they can, because there is no way to salvage it now. I don't personally blame the well-meaning people who got caught up in it thinking it was something it isn't, but they need to drop it and run or they will most certainly risk being lumped in now. And hopefully, in the future, they will actually educate themselves before hitching their wagon to something like this.

 

[Squishy3]

ESA is an industry organization that unfortunately doesn't have much influence on consumers. It is commendable that they strive to condemn Gamergate and all the bigots involved, but it would be even better if the big power holders like EA, Activision, TakeTwo, notable developers and the bigger media outlets like IGN, Gamespot, etc..

ESA is not enough. I wish it was, but it isn't.

So a company that can issue statements and represents 3 of the companies that you listed isn't good enough?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I see people that claim that "there is no sides" saying rethoric with "us or against" without irony... maybe generalizations are not working at all?

Huh

 

[bonercop]

Like, really? I'm no fan of #GG but saying that the few extremists who issues death threats represent the rest of them is lazy and counterproductive.

While the trash issuing bomb threats is clearly a minority, the primary goal of gamegaters honestly isn't much to be proud of either.

#GG is primarily about shutting women up and chasing them out of the gaming community, along with anyone expressing a remotely feminist opinion. To even suggest it's about ~*ethics*~ at this point is a fucking joke in light of crap like this:

I see people that claim that "there is no sides" saying rethoric with "us or against" without irony... maybe generalizations are not working at all?

Give me a direct quote.

 

[Zia]

The majority of the movement picked it up without actually educating themselves. These are mostly well-meaning people who haven't done anything wrong themselves. Continued support, however, is most certainly endorsement of actions associated with it, whether they are actually doing it or not. It's time for the reasonable people to distance themselves from the movement the best they can, because there is no way to salvage it now. I don't personally blame the well-meaning people who got caught up in it thinking it was something it isn't, but they need to drop it and run or they will most certainly risk being lumped in now. And hopefully, in the future, they will actually educate themselves before hitching their wagon to something like this.

Well said.

 

[JDSN]

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

ESA is an industry organization that unfortunately doesn't have much influence on consumers. It is commendable that they strive to condemn Gamergate and all the bigots involved, but it would be even better if the big power holders like EA, Activision, TakeTwo, notable developers and the bigger media outlets like IGN, Gamespot, etc..

ESA is not enough. I wish it was, but it isn't.

Is not consumers as a whole making the death threats

 

[Dylan]

A lot of people are saying "we need to change gamer culture for the better" etc, (which I agree with), but in the short term, I hope they catch these fuckers. I'm really curious to see who is actually behind the threats.

I just can't fathom (perhaps naively) that a "normal" human would be motivated to do something this disgusting. In the back of my mind I'm still imagining a group of 8 year olds trying to impress each other from the confines of their wifi enabled Winnebago in Pimple Creek USA.

 

[Freshmaker]

Video game culture, like other culture, suffer from systemic and structural biases which unfortunately undermine non-default people from even existing within the culture without conforming to its hegemonic ideals. These systemic and structural biases are reinforced and curated by video game companies and publications, that constantly reproduce the same power hierarchy and prioritization of worldviews and identities.

Staying silent when you are partly responsible and have a demonstrative influence on this culture is an implicit approval of the status quo. And the status quo is currently that some gamers can't handle a woman making Youtube videos about their luxury hobby.

Game companies and press have convincing reasons for speaking up and taking a stand. Because they have cultural influence and power.

The idea that we should control nutty outliers was strange enough. Now Gaming companies are supposed to keep them in check too?

 

[Lime]

If you can't grasp the concept of individual action alongside social patterns (particularly anti-social behavior) in a situation like this, then I can't help you. Attributing guilt and causality like this is insane.

You don't think EA, Activision, IGN, Gamespot, etc. would have an influence on video game culture if they made a statement? Like I mentioned before already, it not only sends "a signal to the extremists, but most importantly to the moderates and the ones not in the know that this is a situation that is simply deplorable and should be condemned on all fronts."

Denouncing Gamergate across the board has an influence. Would you disagree with that? And if it has an influence, why not make a difference and *assist* in lessening the hurt by sending a clear signal to everyone that this is not acceptable in any form?

Like aeana writes:

The majority of the movement picked it up without actually educating themselves. These are mostly well-meaning people who haven't done anything wrong themselves. Continued support, however, is most certainly endorsement of actions associated with it, whether they are actually doing it or not. It's time for the reasonable people to distance themselves from the movement the best they can, because there is no way to salvage it now. I don't personally blame the well-meaning people who got caught up in it thinking it was something it isn't, but they need to drop it and run or they will most certainly risk being lumped in now. And hopefully, in the future, they will actually educate themselves before hitching their wagon to something like this.

The sooner and the louder these "moderate" people will hear the denouncement of GG, the sooner this will end.

 

[HueyFreeman]

The heart of the problem, as it is with so many other issues in the world - radicalism, rape, school shootings, spousal abuse - is not males; it's angry young males. It's a problem society is at a complete loss as to how to address.

If we had a way of actually addressing the problem that is the angry young male - in all the contexts in which it occurs and causes problems - we could actually solve a lot of problems. The Gamergate shit is just a marker of a much larger issue.

EDIT: The problem here is actually probably more complex, as angry young males are actually a substantial part of the conversation, hence the massive backlash. I think it will just take a sustained period of demonstrating to the rest of the non-gaming world that the vast majority of players are completely reasonable, and that the female fearing/loathing, misogynists are a small minority that will eventually get the message that how they view things is not okay, and maybe they'll rethink it.

 

[Gattsu25]

So a company that can issue statements and represents 3 of the companies that you listed isn't good enough?

No, a company that the vast majority of gamers don't even know exists is not enough.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The majority of the movement picked it up without actually educating themselves. These are mostly well-meaning people who haven't done anything wrong themselves. Continued support, however, is most certainly endorsement of actions associated with it, whether they are actually doing it or not. It's time for the reasonable people to distance themselves from the movement the best they can, because there is no way to salvage it now. I don't personally blame the well-meaning people who got caught up in it thinking it was something it isn't, but they need to drop it and run or they will most certainly risk being lumped in now. And hopefully, in the future, they will actually educate themselves before hitching their wagon to something like this.

Yup, if anyone keeps up with supporting them knowing the actions they've taken, then the onus is on them. Especially since it's mainly 8chan doing GG stuff these days.

 

[li bur]

The hell is this?

If anything, making the industry look bad, on a wide scale, could be the first step towards progress. It's out in the open now.

Unfortunately, the magnifying glass is aimed at the violence threats instead of woman's depiction in video games.

Which is truly sad

 

[macewank]

the hell does this have to do with anything?

 

[Teremap]

Like, really? I'm no fan of #GG but saying that the few extremists who issues death threats represent the rest of them is lazy and counterproductive.

Tell me, do you bundle all Muslims with the actions of the extremists? Who are you to say there aren't legitimate people who jumped on #GG because they thought it represented something against corruption, either through tweeting it once or twice or showing it to like minded friends? How many of those people do you think kept up with what's happened?

There is NO excuse. If you remain in association with the "movement" (I put that in quotes because it's more of a hate campaign than anything else) you are implicitly okay with this shit continuing to happen, and the only way to say otherwise is to immediately dissociate yourself with the movement.

It's like this:

 

[rakkadakka]

Gamers need to own up, even those who have some sort of odd fascination on this whole gamersgate thing and speak out.. this is not anywhere near acceptable.

For those of you who think that it's unfair for those who are the most extreme being used to represent the community on the whole. Welcome to the 21st century, you have plenty of company.

 

[Rubius]

Dont every celebrity or personality out there get death threats on a quasi daily level? Extremists will try to threaten people who they dont like. Every group do it, and it's not game related at all in my opinion.
Hell, feminists extremists called a bomb threat on a Male rights event. Everybody is against threats like that, but they are just that. Threats. Every celebrity out there get them and every personality out there get them. Female or not. Just because the victim is a women, it does not mean that this case is more important or mean more than any others. Threats are bad. Threats against womens are not any worst and they dont not relate to video game publisher.

It's like saying that if a rocker extremist make a threat against a hip hop singer, that every rock record label out there should say "sorry".

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

You don't think EA, Activision, IGN, Gamespot, etc. would have an influence on video game culture if they made a statement? Like I mentioned before already, it not only sends "a signal to the extremists, but most importantly to the moderates and the ones not in the know that this is a situation that is simply deplorable and should be condemned on all fronts."

Denouncing Gamergate across the board has an influence. Would you disagree with that? And if it has an influence, why not make a difference and *assist* in lessening the hurt by sending a clear signal to everyone that this is not acceptable in any form?

Guess what, every single moderate is condmening this

Also, how the heck you think people are going to react if media figures try to impose a authority when one of the core "issues" in GG is tin foil conspiracy theories?

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I don't believe PR is obligated to comment. They're only superficially involved in this situation. Games media on thr other hand...

 

[Mushroomer25]

... Why would they? At best, companies like EA & Nintendo are tangential to this discussion. It's not about games. It's about feminism in the modern age, and the conflicts that arise from its' discussion. It's happening in the gaming community, because that's where this generation places its' time & trust.

Plus, several companies have already publicly supported Sarkeesians' efforts. To say "We don't condone threats of violence" is just pandering & redundant.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Gamers need to own up, even those who have some sort of odd fascination on this whole gamersgate thing and speak out.. this is not anywhere near acceptable.

For those of you who think that it's unfair for those who are the most extreme being used to represent the community on the whole. Welcome to the 21st century, you have plenty of company.

You wish this was 21 century exclusive problem...

 

[JordanN]

What suggestions would you have made for the platform holders to do that?

It was long time when I first came up with the idea so some of it is forgotten. But I imagine it would have dealt with having very important public speakers from each company come out and denounce things like sexism or harassment. There could be bigger moves like establishing new departments specifically targeting gender relations and having them relay that information to other publishers saying "this is what MS/Nintendo/Sony etc have agreed up and wish for all Publishers to start following". The last part may be too ambitious.

 

[Lime]

Is not consumers as a whole making the death threats

It is the culture and society not speaking up and staying silent that creates a vacuum in which these bigots are cultivated and thrived. Not doing anything is allowing them to foster.

The idea that we should control nutty outliers was strange enough. Now Gaming companies are supposed to keep them in check too?

This is not about control. This is not about keeping them in check. It's about sending a signal and ensuring that the culture is influenced by taking a stand against bigotry.

Guess what, every single moderate is condmening this

Also, how the heck you think people are going to react if media figures try to impose a authority when one of the core "issues" in GG is tin foil conspiracy theories?

Hopefully they'll understand this:

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It was long time when I first came up with the idea so some of it is forgotten. But I imagine it would have dealt with having public speakers come out and denounce things like sexism or harassment. There could be bigger moves like establishing new departments specifically targeting gender relations and having them relay that information to other publishers saying "this is what MS/Nintendo/Sony etc have agreed up and wish for all Publishers to start following".

Gender Relations? You mean like, Human Resources? Because I've never heard of a corporation having...Gender relations.

 

[faceless007]

Like, really? I'm no fan of #GG but saying that the few extremists who issues death threats represent the rest of them is lazy and counterproductive.

It's getting very tiring seeing this deflection used to absolve GG of any responsibility. We can determine to what extent GG is culpable in the ongoing tide of harassment and death threats by examining the way they react to reports of them. Do they, by and large, 1) immediately and in no uncertain terms denounce the threats and express sympathy for the people targeted by them and make efforts to condemn and ostracize the members of their own movement who use them, or in any way express some awareness that the movement they claim is about ethics and transparency has obviously escalated to something toxic and physically hostile to what it perceives as its enemies, or 2) immediately and without any evidence assume that every report of death threats is really a false flag planted by the targets in order to raise their own profile and make GG look bad, encourage further harassment of the targets by demanding they present proof of being harassed and threatened, tell the targets to shut up and stop making noise and simultaneously accuse the target of refusing to engage in debate if the target does not want to discuss their harassment publicly, and generally display a staggering lack of empathy toward women placed in a frightening and potentially unsafe situation?

In short, if the movement does not want to be seen as tacitly condoning and accepting of vicious and sociopathic behavior, they should stop tacitly condoning and accepting vicious and sociopathic behavior.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

... Why would they? At best, companies like EA & Nintendo are tangential to this discussion. It's not about games. It's about feminism in the modern age, and the conflicts that arise from its' discussion. It's happening in the gaming community, because that's where this generation places its' time & trust.

Plus, several companies have already publicly supported Sarkeesians' efforts. To say "We don't condone threats of violence" is just pandering & redundant.

It's not about feminism. It's about maladjusted people thinking it's good to send death and rape threats to women employed in the industry, their SOs, and their children because they don't like these women's opinions.

 

[Rubius]

There is NO excuse. If you remain in association with the "movement" (I put that in quotes because it's more of a hate campaign than anything else) you are implicitly okay with this shit continuing to happen, and the only way to say otherwise is to immediately dissociate yourself with the movement.

This is false. I'm pro gamer gate, and do not like Anita and I still do not condone those threats and find anybody who did them stupid and immature. Gamergate is a wide group with many valid issues. Just because some extremists exist, it does not remove the group ideas. It's like saying that since Gamer gate activists got Doxxed (including Jontron and Alex Baldwin) with a threat that if people didnt stop being opposed to Zoe they would get doxxed as well, that this remove any validity to the anti Gamer gate people. Extremists do not define a movement.

 

[$h@d0w]

This is absolutely hilarious.

I support Gies 100%

 

[atr0cious]

This is really starting to pick up, and hopefully the more that talk about it, the harder it is for people to ignore.

This is this week's paper in Berkeley, Ca, and the article is about two transgendered devs dealing with death threats and pushing past it.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

First thing, videogame publishers aren't obligated to take responsibility for the asshats perpetuating this discussion. Any moron with a #GG hashtag carries that L.

Secondly, I can't believe there's more outrage about the silence of videogame publishers, instead of the idiocy of a law that prevents police officers from keeping guns out of a campus event. This fucking country sucks sometimes.

 

[UncleCross]

We already have a catch all #gamergate thread, but this is new news on the issue, and thus deserving of a new thread solely about recent events. Importantly we’re getting commentary, or a lack thereof, from games companies. There is a thread in the OT on the Utah State death threats focused on the gun control angle, but I think there is a relevant discussion to be had here from the games angle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/t...omen-video-game-threats-anita-sarkeesian.html



Personally I think it’s shocking that EA, Activision and TakeTwo declined to make any comment against these death threats. Letting the ESA handle it is not enough.

Now that this issue has reached the front page of one of the most widely read newspapers in America, do games companies need to step forward and address the issue of violence against women who participate in gaming culture?

Why should game companies step forward and say something? This has nothing to do with them. What a click-bait thread title.