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[Oersted]

What a stupid article. This is just feeding the fire to the pieces of shit that like to make death threats for their own amusement since they have zero accountability. I'm sure all the video game bashers were creaming their pants right now and use this scenario to paint broad strokes over anyone who plays games and will call us all amoral sociopaths.

And then there are gamers like you, with the wrong priorities. So yeah, could be true.

Gamers, developers, writers are threatened, pushed out of the industry. Based on their gender. Care about them.

 

[Lime]

No one here seems to particularly care (those aside that want them to speak up) most just say that they understand why they don't speak up and let the ESA handle it

Fine if some people don't care whether or not actual people are being threatened and harassed to the point of having to quit their careers or living in fear for their lives thanks to ingrained cultural sexism, but then those people shouldn't come in and state that the companies, which have an effect on the culture that is providing a vacuum for the commitment of these threats and harassments, shouldn't speak up about something they might have an influence in making better. I.e. normative claims about this is kind of hard for me to understand why anyone would do.

I guess making descriptive claims are fine though. Sorry if I am misinterpreting anyone who is making descriptive explanations about why companies might not do this.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

The harassment doesn't affect them, thats why.

I know that the tone of both of you have been pretty consistent since years ago of being about having the moral high ground but lets not throw this about people having suffered from harrasment...

 

[emag]

I don't know too many girls in real life who play video games. The most I can do is read these news stories. It's sickening, but if you can't do anything more for a community what can you do?

Even if you do not believe that you're on the front-lines, you can still do a great deal by action (e.g., boycotts) and words (e.g., writing to publishers, spreading the word).

 

[Anton Sugar]

This is not a gender issue in my book. It's about journalists and creators not disclosing links and agreements. Nothing to do with women or men issues.

What are you referring to?

This is what I'm really curious about. I've been having civil discussions with pro-GG people for the past few days and I've yet to find an "issue" that they are rallying behind, that didn't root itself in feminism or responses to sexism/misogyny.

 

[MrBadger]

I'm not sure why "game companies silent" is in the title when it's reasonable that they'd stay out of matters that don't concern them. It's a shame that the real discussion on this matter is being drowned out by these nutters sending disgusting emails and threats.

 

[Felix Lighter]

If that's what this shit was about, it would be focused on how big game publishers shape the conversation and hold some form of control of just about all game coverage sites by controlling access, advertising, and the preview-review cycle.

Not about the fact that indie developer X had a relationship of some sort with games writer Y, or that somebody writing about games decided that social issues or how gender is represented was something to talk about when discussing games.

You have GamerGate people spreading images that are literally trying to get game publishers to blacklist websites for saying bad things about their game.

The idea that this has ever been about transparency or journalism ethics is goddamned ridiculous.

This one is particularly hilarious. Journalistic integrity. Fight for major publishers rights to deny access to publications that may be critical of their product!

 

[stufte]

"in the culture which they operate in, profit from, and wield influence and power in"

Not everything is a culture.

They make/publish games. Idiots who make threats to game critics have nothing to do with devs/publishers. devs/publishers have no power/influence over what idiot misogynists do.

They can say something, or nothing at all. But either way, it's not their responsibility to do so.

 

[Rubius]

Explain to me what are the group ideas? What precisely does the moderate GGer stand for? I hear journalistic ethics thrown around but when I see the people and outlets being targeted, it seems like the biggest offenders, major publishers and huge publications are pretty much ignored. The pattern I see from the organized GGers doesn't jive with the idea that it's mostly made up of well-intentioned moderates.

The internet is a wild place. Even more on twitter where you have a limit of characters. People like to provoke people and so when you get a touchy subject they will poke at it. You had the phreakers back in the 90's and now you have people trying to provoke people with stuff like that. Maybe it's because I've been frequenting 4chan for a years now, but I see "bait" pretty easily. People dont care about the matter most of the time, they just want a respond. Like a 4 yo kid repeating swear words because he know he will get in trouble for it.

For me Gamer Gate is a movement for more transparency between the media and the journalists. People want to make it a gender issue, but that's not it for me. And Gamergate did have some great effects with many website changing the policy, and starting to disclose and reject some stuff because they were too close to the devs or got paid by the devs.

 

[SolidSnakex]

People disagreed with him, they mocked him, called him names, yet I never felt his life was threatened for his views. No one constantly threatened him, I never felt anyone truly wanted him dead.

And I think part of that was because he was a male.

Yes he did

A 16-year-old Texas gamer who threatened to torture and kill antigaming pundit Jack Thompson was arrested earlier today at his high school by the Harris Country Sheriff's Office, according to Thompson, a Florida attorney.

"The specifics of the torture with which Thompson was threatened are so grotesque that they cannot be properly placed in this news release," Thompson wrote in a mass e-mail addressed to news outlets, politicians, and industry groups. "The torture was to end with the shooting of Thompson, as in this teen's favorite games."

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/teen-charged-with-harassing-antigame-activist/1100-6141010/

There were a bunch of other threats sent to him back when he was really active.

 

[Oersted]

The internet is a wild place. Even more on twitter where you have a limit of characters. People like to provoke people and so when you get a touchy subject they will poke at it. You had the phreakers back in the 90's and now you have people trying to provoke people with stuff like that. Maybe it's because I've been frequenting 4chan for a years now, but I see "bait" pretty easily. People dont care about the matter most of the time, they just want a respond. Like a 4 yo kid repeating swear words because he know he will get in trouble for it.

For me Gamer Gate is a movement for more transparency between the media and the journalists. People want to make it a gender issue, but that's not it for me. And Gamergate did have some great effects with many website changing the policy, and starting to disclose and reject some stuff because they were too close to the devs or got paid by the devs.

I love commonplaces, I truly do, but could you be precise, just for once?

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Okay, maybe he did get threats, but none of them were sexually charged, were they? I think that's the big difference here. Jack Thompson is getting threats because of being anti-gaming, Anita and Zoe are getting threats because of being girls.

 

[Lime]

Not everything is a culture.

You don't think this is video game culture? Right now, in discussing this, you are participating in video game culture. When game companies are developing, releasing, and marketing their games, they are participating in video game culture. When they send PR releases, they contribute to video game culture. Same with press and media publications.

They make/publish games. Idiots who make threats to game critics have nothing to do with devs/publishers. devs/publishers have no power/influence over what idiot misogynists do.

People participating in video game culture listen and pay attention to what game companies say. If they say "game X's resolution is 1080p" people listen. If they say "hey, Anita Sarkeesian is pretty cool and have some insightful points I hadn't considered before", then people also listen.

And for the 10th time, we are not only talking about the idiot misogynists, but also the moderates, the neutral, the uninvited, and the actual space and vacuum in which these idiots misogynists can freely run around.

They can say something, or nothing at all. But either way, it's not their responsibility to do so.

It's not their legal responsibility, no. But it would be pretty great and appreciated to see someone taking a stand against this hate campaign.

I know that the tone of both of you have been pretty consistent since years ago of being about having the moral high ground but lets not throw this about people having suffered from harrasment...

If you are referring to me with this "both of you" post, I would appreciate not to see this "moral high-ground" dismissal.

 

[Scrooged]

I was thinking about Jack Thompson today...

You know, he pointed out the violence in games = violence in real-life connection, and now I gotta wonder, he may have had a point under all that legitimate craziness that got him disbarred.

Point is, he was far more acerbic than anything Anita has ever said, yet I never recall him getting this level of venom directed at him. People disagreed with him, they mocked him, called him names, yet I never felt his life was threatened for his views. No one constantly threatened him, I never felt anyone truly wanted him dead.

And I think part of that was because he was a male.

Actually he received plenty of death threats and was mocked mercilessly within the gaming community. And this was mostly before Twitter, which I might add has exacerbated debates online.

 

[Rubius]

I want that before gamergate, but im not gonna use a hastag associated with a bunch of lunatics to get it.

I do not use the hashtag, and dont think I ever used an hashtag. Same reason I wont go outside and protest. Because people like to generalize and say "This person is this way because this other person is also in his group.". And so, if I go outside and protest for lower taxes on students and we get the Black Block coming and start looting the stores and attacking the police, I will be labeled as a looter and a "criminal". All that because I was in the same group as those extremists. Same with Gamer Gate and the extremists on both side.

I will support campaigns and comment toward more transparency. I couldnt care less about the whole Zoe quinn saga. She can sleep with who she want for all I care. All I want is not to have paid or intimate reviews of games and be warned if you review a game from your lover.

 

[HighResTomato]

If these "games journalists" and their respective websites didn't make this mess in the first place with their suspicious relationships with the publishers no one would have to jump in for anyone.

 

[Oersted]

I do not use the hashtag, and dont think I ever used an hashtag. Same reason I wont go outside and protest. Because people like to generalize and say "This person is this way because this other person is also in his group.". And so, if I go outside and protest for lower taxes on students and we get the Black Block coming and start looting the stores and attacking the police, I will be labeled as a looter and a "criminal". All that because I was in the same group as those extremists. Same with Gamer Gate and the extremists on both side.

I will support campaigns and comment toward more transparency. I couldnt care less about the whole Zoe quinn saga. She can sleep with who she want for all I care. All I want is not to have paid or intimate reviews of games and be warned if you review a game from your lover.

You actually fall for it, huh?

 

[Kinyou]

Okay, maybe he did get threats, but none of them were sexually charged, were they? I think that's the big difference here. Jack Thompson is getting threats because of being anti-gaming, Anita and Zoe are getting threats because of being girls.

Partly. They're also convinced that Anita wants to hurt gaming. You might not agree with that but that's the narrative in many of those people's heads.Also Robert Bowling received sexually charged threats

 

[Rubius]

I love commonplaces, I truly do, but could you be precise, just for once?

Precise about the movement? Transparency in the media if they cover something they are paid or intimate about. That's pretty much it. Like a lot of Gamer Gate supporters around who denounce the whole Gender issues attached to it, we do not want all that Feminist against Mysogynist stuff.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Okay, maybe he did get threats, but none of them were sexually charged, were they? I think that's the big difference here. Jack Thompson is getting threats because of being anti-gaming, Anita and Zoe are getting threats because of being girls.

I'm not sure if any of them were sexually charged. I just remember that there were quite a few death threats directed at him.

People participating in video game culture listen and pay attention to what game companies say. If they say "game X's resolution is 1080p" people listen. If they say "hey, Anita Sarkeesian is pretty cool and have some insightful points I hadn't considered before", then people also listen.

They'll listen if they want to. The people doing this quite clearly don't care about what others are saying. That's why they have lists made to put developers and people on if they choose to support Anita. That'll be what happens if TT or Sony or Nintendo come out and say anything.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

People participating in video game culture listen and pay attention to what game companies say. If they say "game X's resolution is 1080p" people listen. If they say "hey, Anita Sarkeesian is pretty cool and have some insightful points I hadn't considered before", then people also listen.

They have done it... for years... culminating in a award for her in the Developers Awards...

 

[danwarb]

The most popular games nowadays have the answer to everything be "use violence to get your way", and there's quite a few games that usually "justify that" by making it a revenge plot.

You can see how that can influence someone deciding the best way to handle someone "attacking their hobby!" is to threaten them with violence, do you not? It goes hand-in-hand with the stupid machismo of gun culture and how people always jumps to the "I have a gun!" defense when faced with an issue they can't solve.

I can't see that. Guns are not much of a thing in the UK, and we get all the same games. I doubt games have significant influence on behavior.

These are societal problems that don't dissapear when/because there are better ways to affect virtual worlds than pointing and shooting.

 

[udivision]

Okay, maybe he did get threats, but none of them were sexually charged, were they? I think that's the big difference here. Jack Thompson is getting threats because of being anti-gaming, Anita and Zoe are getting threats because of being girls.

I think people also care more about it because they are girls. An angry old white getting death threats doesn't have the same... "feel" as the current situation.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

This is not a gender issue in my book. It's about journalists and creators not disclosing links and agreements. Nothing to do with women or men issues.

Yeah, and there are tons of assholes glad you and others keep perpetuating that lie as if it is the truth.

 

[Orayn]

Precise about the movement? Transparency in the media if they cover something they are paid or intimate about. That's pretty much it. Like a lot of Gamer Gate supporters around who denounce the whole Gender issues attached to it, we do not want all that Feminist against Mysogynist stuff.

Okay, where is the media currently failing that? Do you have examples or is it just a vague thing to bludgeon everyone with.

 

[frostshade]

No idea why campus police cannot prevent people with weapons from entering a college event. That law needs to be changed asap.

 

[Lime]

They'll listen if they want to. The people doing this quite clearly don't care about what others are saying. That's why they have lists made to put developers and people on if they choose to support Anita. That'll be what happens if TT or Sony or Nintendo come out and say anything.

It's not about the bigots only, but also the moderates, neutral, etc. like I've written already:

Large-scale and collective denouncement across the board send strong signals by especially powerholders in this culture not only to the extremists, but most importantly to the moderates and the ones not in the know that this is a situation that is simply deplorable and should be condemned on all fronts

it not only sends "a signal to the extremists, but most importantly to the moderates and the ones not in the know that this is a situation that is simply deplorable and should be condemned on all fronts."

Denouncing Gamergate across the board has an influence. Would you disagree with that? And if it has an influence, why not make a difference and *assist* in lessening the hurt by sending a clear signal to everyone that this is not acceptable in any form?

The sooner and the louder these "moderate" people will hear the denouncement of GG, the sooner this will end.

They have done it... for years... culminating in a award for her in the Developers Awards...

That was nice of them. That doesn't mean they should stop supporting Sarkeesian and others. It's a constant struggle that isn't fixed by doing something good at one point in time.

 

[Oersted]

Precise about the movement? Transparency in the media if they cover something they are paid or intimate about. That's pretty much it. Like a lot of Gamer Gate supporters around who denounce the whole Gender issues attached to it, we do not want all that Feminist against Mysogynist stuff.

Be precise about that. Your previous post makes it look like you bought the allegations against Quinn. If not, apologies, but what are you referring to then?

 

[leazo]

No idea why campus police cannot prevent people with weapons from entering a college event. That law needs to be changed asap.

When these people claim to have access to assault rifles that is easier said than done if there's any weight to their claims.

 

[Buzzman]

I mean I just went on 8chan, and I can't seem to find a single post talking about actual corruption in the industry? Mostly it's just about SJWs and apparently The Guardian is part of some conspiracy? But I'm sure somewhere out there you can find a gater talking about ethics.

 

[Felix Lighter]

The internet is a wild place. Even more on twitter where you have a limit of characters. People like to provoke people and so when you get a touchy subject they will poke at it. You had the phreakers back in the 90's and now you have people trying to provoke people with stuff like that. Maybe it's because I've been frequenting 4chan for a years now, but I see "bait" pretty easily. People dont care about the matter most of the time, they just want a respond. Like a 4 yo kid repeating swear words because he know he will get in trouble for it.

For me Gamer Gate is a movement for more transparency between the media and the journalists. People want to make it a gender issue, but that's not it for me. And Gamergate did have some great effects with many website changing the policy, and starting to disclose and reject some stuff because they were too close to the devs or got paid by the devs.

I'm not really talking about the scum making death threats on social media, I'm talking about the organized boycotts. They target outlets like Rock Paper Shotgun and Gamasutra. They organize against Polygon not because they are too cozy with devs and publishers but because they were too critical of aspects of Bayonetta 2. It is so blatantly obvious what this movement is. The journalistic ethics facade was just a half assed attempt at legitimizing make a huge issue out of a woman's very personal sex life.

 

[LumpOfCole]

The only reasonable reaction for devs/publishers to make in regards to this is to denounce hatred/threats toward other players on their services and promise for stricter punishments for players who are verbally abusive and make threats in their games, game lobbies, and official game forums.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

If you think you can just change the ideaology of GamerGate because you feel like it, then I get to join the KKK to save the unicorns.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I admit, I just realized I was partially thinking of Uwe Boll when thinking of Jack Thompson, misremembering that it was the latter who challenged critics to a boxing match.

No idea why campus police cannot prevent people with weapons from entering a college event. That law needs to be changed asap.

Who would protect everyone when a crazed madman with a gun decides to go on a shooting spree?

 

[frostshade]

When these people claim to have access to assault rifles that is easier said than done if there's any weight to their claims.

Fair enough. Didn't think it through properly. Thanks.

 

[Rubius]

Okay, where is the media currently failing that? Do you have examples or is it just a vague thing to bludgeon everyone with.

Be precise about that. Your previous post makes it look like you bought the allegations against Quinn. If not, apologies, but what are you referring to then?

The problem is that we have tons of reviews out there and deals out there that are made without people being warned about it. For example, the whole Shadow of Mordor review thing where you had to be a part of a deal with the company to get a review code, that included stuff like "do not say anything negative about the game or show any glitch or bug".

People everywhere promote stuff without warning people that they get rewards for that. IGN being a pretty big offender of that. A lot of people reformed after the scandal, like Total Biscuit making a list of everything he got paid for or received something in return or the Escapist changing the terms and policy.

 

[Satch]

"gamers" are such a disease

why threaten to assault someone over some damn videos
this gamergate shit is a pathetic mess

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I get that it's abnormal for a big company like Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/EA/Ubisoft/etc. to make a public statement about something like this, but I'm not sure why individual figureheads can't speak out more about it to people on the fence. You have a few, but not really as many as I'd expect.

So in the end, Anita's video series managed to make her look bad, make developers look bad, make publishers look bad, make the media look bad, and make gamers look bad.

And after all that, nothing will change.

Worth it, Anita?....

I'm really glad I was at work when this was posted and I'm not even a big Feminist Frequency fan. What a god awful leap in logic to make.

"gamers" are such a disease

why threaten to assault someone over some damn videos
this gamergate shit is a pathetic mess

clearly the best way to show how inconsequenstial and dumb anita's videos on gaming is to threaten her life because that won't have the opposite effect at all

 

[Mman235]

I do not use the hashtag, and dont think I ever used an hashtag. Same reason I wont go outside and protest. Because people like to generalize and say "This person is this way because this other person is also in his group.". And so, if I go outside and protest for lower taxes on students and we get the Black Block coming and start looting the stores and attacking the police, I will be labeled as a looter and a "criminal". All that because I was in the same group as those extremists. Same with Gamer Gate and the extremists on both side.

I will support campaigns and comment toward more transparency. I couldnt care less about the whole Zoe quinn saga. She can sleep with who she want for all I care. All I want is not to have paid or intimate reviews of games and be warned if you review a game from your lover.

If you're for ethics in Journalism and also haven't used the hashtag at all, then you're not really a GGer, given that every "ethics" related action they've taken so far actively harms ethics in the industry.

 

[Felix Lighter]

The problem is that we have tons of reviews out there and deals out there that are made without people being warned about it. For example, the whole Shadow of Mordor review thing where you had to be a part of a deal with the company to get a review code, that included stuff like "do not say anything negative about the game or show any glitch or bug".

People everywhere promote stuff without warning people that they get rewards for that. IGN being a pretty big offender of that. A lot of people reformed after the scandal, like Total Biscuit making a list of everything he got paid for or received something in return or the Escapist changing the terms and policy.

Actually, that was youtubers that wanted to show footage prerelease, not reviewers.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

Precise about the movement? Transparency in the media if they cover something they are paid or intimate about. That's pretty much it. Like a lot of Gamer Gate supporters around who denounce the whole Gender issues attached to it, we do not want all that Feminist against Mysogynist stuff.

What you're saying still seems vague, under the pretext of journalistic integrity or something. If all you care about is transparency though, then why attach yourself to such an extremely toxic movement?

And besides that, you've mentioned that gamergate has already gone towards achieving some of their aims. How? It seems like they're more focused on protests like boycotting blizzard based on the fact that they advertise on kotaku.

 

[mreddie]

The fact after all the shit that happened this month with the Mordor issue, Ubisoft's Parity and just DLC in general, some of these assholes are still going after women who just spoke up. Even politicians don't get this hatred.

 

[Rubius]

"gamers" are such a disease

why threaten to assault someone over some damn videos
this gamergate shit is a pathetic mess

Gamers do not do that. People do. People threaten to murder people all the time because they are personalities. Just because a movie viewer threaten to murder George Lucas, that does not mean that all "Viewers" are a disease.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

If you're for ethics in Journalism and also haven't used the hashtag at all, then you're not really a GGer, given that every "ethics" related action they've taken so far actively harms ethics in the industry.

Why even associate with GamerGate?

Because it has Gamer in the title?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

This is not a gender issue in my book. It's about journalists and creators not disclosing links and agreements. Nothing to do with women or men issues.

You haven't even read your fucking book

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

If the folks making death threats were sitting next to me, I'd happily smack upside the head and report them to the authorities. The point is, they're not.

 

[Lime]

People listen to publishers like Ubisoft. EA. Activision. TakeTwo. And more importantly big game media like Polygon. IGN. Gamespot.

Are some in this thread seriously arguing that these companies and organizations would not have an influence on the culture they operate in? That denouncing a hate movement would not send any form of signal to anyone?

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's not about the bigots only, but also the moderates, neutral, etc. like I've written already:

The moderates seem to be the people that do know but are actively avoiding getting involved because of how nasty it is. That won't change if game companies start talking about it simply because those people just don't want to have anything to do with it. Consider how many people are on this very forum and how many are choosing to click on threads about this to participate. They know it's out there but it's just not something that they want to be involved with.

 

[danwarb]

What's a "gamer" now? A lot of people play games.

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

I mean I just went on 8chan, and I can't seem to find a single post talking about actual corruption in the industry? Mostly it's just about SJWs and apparently The Guardian is part of some conspiracy? But I'm sure somewhere out there you can find a gater talking about ethics.

Oh god, that poster on the bottom crying about Rab Florence not being pro-gg.

These people just have no sense of perspective. It's shocking.