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[Nev]

the cosplayer isn't ignorant of the idea that skin tone does not define the character

She wanted it to be as accurate as possible, and Michonne has dark skin so she painted her skin dark so the cosplay is more accurate to the physical appareance of that character she likes and is in no way making fun of.

Where, when and how the hell did this become a problem? Down-fucking-hill.

 

[Mesoian]

Assuming it's true?? Discusion would be a whole lot different if it wasn't true.
Maybe not an excuse, it's a good explanation why people have no clue that they're doing something wrong.

I say "assuming it's true" because as an american, I don't have a frame of reference for the everyday racial climate in Germany. I just don't know.

But then people have already posted links in this thread showing that people know EXACTLY what they're doing with black face in Germany, so let's not assume.

 

[Frog-fu]

True. But as a black cosplayer, I don't cover myself in Ben Nye every time I decide to cosplay someone who isn't black. You don't need to do that, it's unnecessary as many examples in this thread have shown.

It certainly isn't necessary, but cosplayers tends to be very dedicated to what they do, so I really don't see the big deal in this. I think people are too eager to be outraged and put label on things.

All I see a massive Walking Dead fan having fun celebrating one of her favourite characters and going the extra mile to look exactly like her. There are so many things in the world I can be upset about, but a (perhaps tad overzealous) cosplayer is not one of them.

How many of them put on grease paint?

I'm sure there are those that do this.

 

[TekGryphon]

Why would being in a different thread reverse people's opinions

You don't think if I posted a thread about people bemoaning someone white-washing a black historical figure or hero/heroine, these same kids would be in there bemoaning what a cultural travesty it is?

 

[Kinvara]

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that she isn't living out an example of blackface. She's using make up to (1) look as much as possible as a character (2) because she likes them. She's not using make up to (1) exagerate and simplify a character (2) because she hates them and wants to ridicule them.

1. There's more to a race than just skin color. We're talking different skeletal structure.

2. There's more to the character than simply the fact she is black.

3. You can still be offensive with good intentions.

 

[Htown]

We do this shit every year around Halloween and it's always the same.

Don't fucking darken your skin to cosplay as a character of another ethnicity. This shit is not rocket science.

But never mind, time for the NSTAR* Society to make yet another stand, ignore decades and/or centuries of history, and tell black people how dumb they're being for calling racism what it is.




*No Such Thing As Racism

 

[ElFly]

I don't think that is what she is saying. "Racism" in Germany is more ethnic hatred than racism. It's about countries. Some of the most hated minorities are Turks, Russians and Poles. All of them caucasian but still hated for their ethnic background. So she is trying to argue that she herself is part of a different ethnicity and thus it would be pretty dumb if she were a "racist".

Are you really trying to make the argument that this is ok because Germany is so much more advanced at racism than the crude, basic racism in america and the rest of the world?

Really?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

What's the consensus on the movie White Chicks? Racist or self-aware?

Little of both, honestly

And well she should, she did a fantastic job.

Haters gonna hate, and no one hates like misguided Generation Y social justice warriors. Kids sleep through their history courses and then want to be experts.

SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORSSSSSSSZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

The ULTIMATE insult

 

[Nokagi]

White liberals are slowly destroying the word racist by constantly labeling people with it. Sure you can say it was insensitive or even dumb/stupid for her to do this but racist? No I do not think so.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It's obviously unnecessary to don black makeup to look like and be clearly identiable as Michonne, but is that the point of Cosplay? To be clearly identifiable? I genuinely don't know as it doesn't interest me in the slightest, but I know a lot of people spend a lot of time in custom making costumes, props etc. None of that is necessary either but clearly they (and possibly the people admiring them) get something out of it.

 

[Moff]

So if she came out and said "dressing as my favorite n*gger Michonne," should I not be offended then? There's no history there in germane either but you know it's wrong. There literally isn't a difference between the too.

you can be offended as much as you want, I didnt want to violate your right to be offended. I am only saying it's not racist, or at least very very less racist than other blackface examples.
I was pointing out, that - according to you - the painting itself it not necessarily racist but "the history of discrimination behind it" is the problem. I understand that, but please understand that that history is next to unkown in germany, so you can feel offended, but at the same time can't really blame that german cosplayer for that.

your "nigger" example doesnt make sense though, because you dont need to know any history for that, that word is today still as racist as back then, and quite well known in germany, too.

 

[Gustav]

I say "assuming it's true" because as an american, I don't have a frame of reference for the everyday racial climate in Germany. I just don't know.

But then people have already posted links in this thread showing that people know EXACTLY what they're doing with black face in Germany, so let's not assume.

I think the simple fact that IF somebody in Germany has heard the term, they now it as "Blackface" and not "Schwarzgesicht" should tell you a lot.

 

[Buzzati]

Funny how this thread is full of probably a lot of white people telling blacks they shouldn't be offended by something.

Reminds me of the threads where its men telling women they shouldn't be offended by something.

How do you know if they're white? Haven't seen a single post of a white person telling a black person not to be offended. Two black people on GAF isn't "black people".

 

[……forgetit]

Or even better. Make sure you're favorite tv show character is one with the same skin color as you. That way you prevent being labeled a racist.



My head is spinning.

Don't wear makeup to look black, this isn't a hard concept to grasp people. Though you may not see it as racist, it is 100% offensive to black people, myself included. Just saying "my intentions are good" isn't good enough.

 

[Jburton]

We can't, because when we make that thread, we're told that we should have thicker skin or should choose other black characters to cosplay as.

Meanwhile, in this thread, apparently racial sensitivities don't exist in Europe, even though multiple articles have been posted stating otherwise.

Whatever, fuck this thread.

Racial issues to the extent of the problems in America never existed in Europe.

Issues In Europe are generally individual rather than systematic.

Most places in Europe do not have or ever did have the population of Racial minorities or history of slavery to the extent America did.


Racial sensitivities exist of course, and they obviously should, but race is not that big a deal in most European countries as it is in America.

 

[Ravensmash]

Correct, it's never okay to change the color of your skin to simulate a different ethnicity IMO.

Can I ask why? I'm not talking about obviously offensive blackface or stereotypes etc. But what makes this so wrong?

Great costume/make up actually.

 

[Infinite]

What other term would you use for this hypersensitivity? SJW is a perfectly good term.

It's an awful term to express that though. What is exactly wrong with social justice? Using the term as a pejorative implies that there is. Also it's overused to point of really not meaning anything anymore.

 

[TekGryphon]

Little of both, honestly



SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORSSSSSSSZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

The ULTIMATE insult

Nah, being a bigot is far worse than being a SJW, but it's important we set boundaries. Threads like this show that you can too far in the direction of "tolerance" that you wind up shoving your head right back up your ass.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I've no idea why people would find this racist. Then again I've no idea what this "blackface" is historically speaking and how is this example different from, for example, the Wayans doing White Chicks.

 

[wildfire]

So it's ok to change the color of your hair, but not your face?

So I should bleach myself if I want to dress up as Superman or James Bond?

Anyway I think this level of dedication is over the top all she needed was the sword and braids and the right set of clothes that is reserved for each character.

I'm not offended because she actually attempted giving herself a proper skin tone instead of putting tar on her body.

 

[Hex]

It is not racist, but it doesn't matter outrage will find its course.
There will always be people that get offended at everything.
I think people need to really do their research on blackface again.
There is nothing negative, demeaning, derogatory or disrespectful here.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

This thread is turning me white and young, time to go back to college

 

[Arjen]

I say "assuming it's true" because as an american, I don't have a frame of reference for the everyday racial climate in Germany. I just don't know.

But then people have already posted links in this thread showing that people know EXACTLY what they're doing with black face in Germany, so let's not assume.

I've had the Zwarte Piet discussion with many many people around me, no one knew what Black Face/ Minstrel shows was.

 

[DOWN]

Don't wear makeup to look black, this isn't a hard concept to grasp people. Though you may not see it as racist, it is 100% offensive to black people, myself included. Just saying "my intentions are good" isn't good enough.

I think that's basically the point here. The cosplayer did something insensitive, not racist. Imitating the ethnic features of a minority has high potential to offend due to a history of intended offense.

 

[Moff]

Yeah, "Sternsinger" (when kids dress up as the three Kings and go from house to house) also occasionally show up in blackface. For better or worse it's not really considered as racist in Germany

oh wow I completely forgot about that.

and santas little helper is in 99% of the cases painted black in the face, every year.

I am really sorry black US gaf, we really dont mean any offense.

 

[Slayven]

It's an awful term to express that though. What is exactly wrong with social justice? Using the term as a pejorative implies that there is. Also it's overused to point of really not meaning anything anymore.

How can you make Social Justice a negative thing? Why would you want to?

 

[daniels]

I dont see anything racist about it..

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm saying your argument is flawed because you're arguing that she didn't intend to be racists therefore it isn't racists which is a pretty flimsy as illustrated by my "intent =! Impact" rebuttal. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Black people and being black isn't a fucking costume, dude.

Ignorance is not the issue here. The point/intention of her costume was to dress up as a character from a television show. Blackface traditionally revolves around the depiction of black stereotypes. No such stereotypes are present in her costume. It's not blackface, and you continue to refuse to acknowledge the distinct difference between this and historical blackface. Words and concepts have meaning.

I would compare this to cross dressing, which can be done without stereotyping women.

 

[anarckitty]

What's the consensus on the movie White Chicks? Racist or self-aware?

I was under the impression that the consensus for that movie is that it is just a shitty movie. What do I know though? I'm just a white chick.

 

[Frog-fu]

For "blackface" this attempt seems pretty tastefully done. It's not like she dipped her face in tar and slapped on some bright red lipstick. Really boggles my mind how this could be construed as something as vile as racist given how heavy that label is.

It's an awful term to express that though. What is exactly wrong with social justice? Using the term as a pejorative implies that there is. Also it's overused to point of really not meaning anything anymore.

SJW is a misnomer akin to truthers when it comes to asinine conspiracy theories.

Most people do care about issues of social injustice. And then there are those that will make anything into such a thing, again, akin to truthers turning everything into a conspiracy theory.

 

[kamorra]

I say "assuming it's true" because as an american, I don't have a frame of reference for the everyday racial climate in Germany. I just don't know.

But then people have already posted links in this thread showing that people know EXACTLY what they're doing with black face in Germany, so let's not assume.

Are you talking about the link where you see two people at the World Cup with painted faces? How about all the Germans or people who are living there telling you that the concept isn't well known. Why do you choose to ignore that? I get why you feel offended but you are cherry picking whom you want to believe.

 

[Mesoian]

We do this shit every year around Halloween and it's always the same.

Don't fucking darken your skin to cosplay as a character of another ethnicity. This shit is not rocket science.

But never mind, time for the NSTAR* Society to make yet another stand, ignore decades and/or centuries of history, and tell black people how dumb they're being for calling racism what it is.




*No Such Thing As Racism

Fucking word.

I had a friend from a few years back who wanted to cosplay as Yorichi from Bleach. She ended up using a bunch of cream tanner in order to try and get her skin tone darker because "there are no black people in anime, Yorichi is just tanned, it wouldn't make sense if she were black considering where they are, so this will work and will be okay," which is a long and round about way of saying that it wasn't racist because LOCATION!

In the end, I didn't have to chastise her too much because the tanning agent turned her skin orange instead of black. I told her that's karma's way of let her know she made a mistake and to not do it again. The next year she did Yorichi without trying to change her skin and she looked great.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

How can you make Social Justice a negative thing? Why would you want to?

Didn't you hear, too much social justice can magnetize your head and your rectum!

Get to the doctor

 

[SillyEskimo]

Don't wear makeup to look black, this isn't a hard concept to grasp people. Though you may not see it as racist, it is 100% offensive to black people, myself included. Just saying "my intentions are good" isn't good enough.

*Unless the NAACP says it's fine

FYI, I gave the Wayans Brothers permission to do White Chicks on behalf of all white people, so that one is on me.

 

[Htown]

I've no idea why people would find this racist. Then again I've no idea what this "blackface" is historically speaking and how is this example different from, for example, the Wayans doing White Chicks.

You're on the internet. Look it up.

It would have taken less time than posting about how much you don't know.

Here, I've done the work for you.

 

[ElFly]

Racial issues to the extent of the problems in America never existed in Europe.

Most places in Europe do not have or ever did have the population of Racial minorities or history of slavery to the extent America did.

Well of course not.

America did not invade Europe and started genociding their people just because they didn't believe in Kukulkan or just because they wanted their gold and lands.

 

[ersocaster]

I think that's basically the point here. The cosplayer did something insensitive, not racist. Imitating the ethnic features of a minority has high potential to offend due to a history of intended offense.

Blackface did not "imitate" ethnic features, it exaggerated stereotypical features.

If "imitating" features was racist, then no one would be able to dress up as any character ever.

Please do not try to redefine what blackface is, that only serves to devalue it's impact on those it offends.

 

[……forgetit]

you can be offended as much as you want, I didnt want to violate your right to be offended. I am only saying it's not racist, or at least very very less racist than other blackface examples.
I was pointing out, that - according to you - the painting itself it not necessarily racist but "the history of discrimination behind it" is the problem. I understand that, but please understand that that history is next to unkown in germany, so you can feel offended, but at the same time can't really blame that german cosplayer for that.

your "nigger" example doesnt make sense though, because you dont need to know any history for that, that word is today still as racist as back then, and quite well known in germany, too.

"n*gger" is just a word with historical connotations behind it. If you're from a country that doesn't know the history behind it, it doesn't make saying it any less offensive. Just like being from a country that has no history of blackface doesn't make blackface any less offensive. Sure I can't fault the girl from not knowing, but I certainly can fault her for doubling down and saying she's still doing the cosplay after learning that it's offensive to people of African decent.

 

[Finn of Ooo]

For those saying this is racist, can you explain why? I'm honestly curious as I don't understand.

 

[Dabanton]

Did she expand her nose hahah

FFS

I would say naive but people really should know better.

 

[TekGryphon]

Ignorance is not the issue here. The point/intention of her costume was to dress up as a character from a television show. Blackface traditionally revolves around the depiction of black stereotypes. No such stereotypes are present in her costume. It's not blackface, and you continue to refuse to acknowledge the distinct difference between this and historical blackface. Words and concepts have meaning.

I would compare this to cross dressing, which can be done without stereotyping women.

Ignorance is definitely the issue here. We've got a bunch of teenagers who slept through history class and don't have a clue what blackface is or its historical context or relevance, so as soon as they see someone using a bronzer to emulate a powerful and interesting black heroine - the children cry "THAT'S RACIST"

 

[Mesousa]

White liberals are slowly destroying the word racist by constantly labeling people with it. Sure you can say it was insensitive or even dumb/stupid for her to do this but racist? No I do not think so.

Its because of "White Liberals" that there has been any widespread progress at all. People just didn't get out of bed one day and say: "Fuck yeah, minorities deserve respect too!" it took years and years of liberals of all colors(including the white SJW it is so cool to hate now) bashing it over the mainstream's head constantly.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Ignorance is definitely the issue here. We've got a bunch of teenagers who slept through history class and don't have a clue what blackface is or its historical context or relevance, so as soon as they see someone using a bronzer to emulate a powerful and interesting black heroine - the children cry "THAT'S RACIST"

How old are you, ancient sage

 

[Sephzilla]

This isn't racist, at all. She's just trying to emulate the look of a character.

Now if she walked around in this costume while also emulating a lot of black stereotypes, then it would be racist.

 

[cyberheater]

It's pretty obvious that the intention wasn't racist.

Thank you. Of course it wasn't racist.

 

[TekGryphon]

For those saying this is racist, can you explain why? I'm honestly curious as I don't understand.

She accurately emulated a powerful and interesting black heroine in a hobby that strives for excellence in accuracy.

SJWs are demanding that every black hero/heroine or historical figure be white-washed in the name of racism.

 

[Interfectum]

So no race is allowed to change their skin color to better match a character they like if said character happens to be a different race than their own? The act of doing so makes them a racist?

 

[Alx]

As someone already said, the minstrel shows that were popular in the US toured Europe too. Just because you didn't have any black people to be offended doesn't mean it wasn't offensive then and that it isn't offensive now.

Maybe they did, but they certainly didn't have the same cultural impact over here than they do in the US. Nobody knows wtf a minstrel show is on this side of the ocean, and if I weren't browsing Neogaf I wouldn't either. So it would be hard for anybody in Europe to make the relation between black makeup and a show that aired half a century ago in a foreign country.

 

[……forgetit]

*Unless the NAACP says it's fine

FYI, I gave the Wayans Brothers permission to do White Chicks on behalf of all white people, so that one is on me.

Like I've said multiple times a movie where they tackle blackface as a topic is much different from doing blackface for fun. If you've seen the movie you'd know that one of the points was that blackface isn't okay. He's playing a white character in the movie after all.

 

[SliceSabre]

We do this shit every year around Halloween and it's always the same.

Don't fucking darken your skin to cosplay as a character of another ethnicity. This shit is not rocket science.

But never mind, time for the NSTAR* Society to make yet another stand, ignore decades and/or centuries of history, and tell black people how dumb they're being for calling racism what it is.




*No Such Thing As Racism

This poster freaking gets it.