TheExecutive
Member
What? Why? I would think it's acceptable so long as it were a specific character and you didn't play some idiotic stereotypes.
Cosplayer being labeled Racist for her blackface Michonne From The Walking Dead'
- Thread starter clem84
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No point in continuing arguing with you if were gonna talk pass each other.
n00bsauce87
Member
It was as if people wouldn't have known she was Michonne without the paint. I guess she doesn't give fans enough credit and/or thinks no one is at her level of fandom that extra steps where necessary.
Souldriver
Member
Indeed. Next to skin color, there's hair style, clothing, attitude, posture, .... All of which, cosplayers try to mimic as closely as possible. If you look at someone cosplaying, and say "there's more to this character than skin color", you're the one focusing on just that one thing, because the cosplayer did a lot more to look like them other than facepaint.
And skeletal structure is indeed another feature. If someone used prostetics, masks or clever makeup to as closely recreate those features, I somehow feel that you wouldn't be happy about it, even though you suggest it's an essential part of trying to convey a character.
……forgetit
Member
TekGryphon
Banned
Old enough to have seen cultural movement backfires before, wise enough to recognize them now, and progressive enough to warrant telling you kids to stop sabotaging social justice with your overzealous bullshit. This is the type of bullshit that gets put on Fox News and makes conservatives think they're justified in stereotyping progressives as insane.
TheExecutive
Member
Fair enough. Still don't think it's racist though.
Corronchilejano
Member
If I was walking down the street and saw someone doing this I wouldn't know.
I'm going to leave it there. I don't want to touch a nerve around a subject I don't feel I can talk freely about.
It's insensitive more than straight up racist I think. Whats more offensive to me is probably her dismissive attitude when interviewed about it.
If she was caricaturing race or stereotyping it'd be way worse. She could have looked a bit Tropic Thunder Robert Downey Jnr - and she's not too far from looking like that. That said, I'm actually kind of impressed by the job she did, she's obviously talented.
Some cosplayers go stupidly far in the pursuit of looking as much like their character as possible, and the community around it at conventions certainly rewards accuracy, more so than expression. People spend weeks replicating hair, building skeletons, fake EVA foam armour, helmets, weapons - so I can believe they'd want the complete look, but this isn't exactly wise.
In an ideal world this wouldn't matter. As long as she wasn't painting herself up like Mr. Popo, it'd be no different than Hulk cosplayers using makeup to make themselves green.
But we don't live in an ideal world, and people are going to have a problem with it. She should try and be more understanding and not so dismissive.
If she was caricaturing race or stereotyping it'd be way worse. She could have looked a bit Tropic Thunder Robert Downey Jnr - and she's not too far from looking like that. That said, I'm actually kind of impressed by the job she did, she's obviously talented.
Some cosplayers go stupidly far in the pursuit of looking as much like their character as possible, and the community around it at conventions certainly rewards accuracy, more so than expression. People spend weeks replicating hair, building skeletons, fake EVA foam armour, helmets, weapons - so I can believe they'd want the complete look, but this isn't exactly wise.
In an ideal world this wouldn't matter. As long as she wasn't painting herself up like Mr. Popo, it'd be no different than Hulk cosplayers using makeup to make themselves green.
But we don't live in an ideal world, and people are going to have a problem with it. She should try and be more understanding and not so dismissive.
"accurately" lol she looks like a white chick with bronzer.
White-washing is a totally different thing than cosplay. Try again.
Moff
Member
no its not the same, sorry.
"nigger" is as offensive today as ever.
but you yourself said here , and please correct me if I am wrong, that the problem is not the painting itself but the past, where painting your face black was mostly used to discredit and degrade black people. that's a big difference to "nigger", which is still as offensive as ever.
there is no way to say "nigger" witthout racist intentions, but you can paint your face black witthout racist intentions.
I personally don't believe this is racists, but I am merely one person so I understand that others may feel differently.
I'd like to better understand why people believe it is racist. 'Blackface' has been traditionally deemed racist because of it's history and it's intent. It was typically done in a very dramatic fashion (ie. literally black skin, insanely large lips, etc) as a direct representation of 'Joe African American'. It was clearly racists in every way shape and form, as the entire 'character' was race. Blackface wasn't an attempt to portray an individual acurately, rather an excuse to paint an entire race of people with the same brush like some sort of caricature.
This appears to be the furthest thing from Blackface. This woman clearly loves cosplay, and the Walking Dead is a very popular series with cosplayers. We have evidence of her cosplaying in the past as another member of the cast, and we have an admission from her that Michonne is her favorite character. She and Michonne clearly have different skin colours, so she used makeup to try and make the cosplay more accurate.
This girl is not dressing as a caricature. She is not attempting to represent a race of people. For all intense and purposes, her cosplay was not about race at all but about accurately representing a character that she admires from a TV program.
I try to be very sensitive to all issues involving race, gender, sexuality, etc. I understand indirect racism, and how it can often times be more damaging than overt racism. I am aware of systemic prejudices that create large barriers for entire groups of people, and I know that even tangential comments can come from (even a slightly) racist root. However, I think this is even too tangential for my understanding. So once again, please share with me what is offensive about this girl's cosplay? What is the racist root that we are exposing? When something is this far off tangent from direct racism, does intent not come into play?
I am genuinely asking because I really do want to understand.
I'd like to better understand why people believe it is racist. 'Blackface' has been traditionally deemed racist because of it's history and it's intent. It was typically done in a very dramatic fashion (ie. literally black skin, insanely large lips, etc) as a direct representation of 'Joe African American'. It was clearly racists in every way shape and form, as the entire 'character' was race. Blackface wasn't an attempt to portray an individual acurately, rather an excuse to paint an entire race of people with the same brush like some sort of caricature.
This appears to be the furthest thing from Blackface. This woman clearly loves cosplay, and the Walking Dead is a very popular series with cosplayers. We have evidence of her cosplaying in the past as another member of the cast, and we have an admission from her that Michonne is her favorite character. She and Michonne clearly have different skin colours, so she used makeup to try and make the cosplay more accurate.
This girl is not dressing as a caricature. She is not attempting to represent a race of people. For all intense and purposes, her cosplay was not about race at all but about accurately representing a character that she admires from a TV program.
I try to be very sensitive to all issues involving race, gender, sexuality, etc. I understand indirect racism, and how it can often times be more damaging than overt racism. I am aware of systemic prejudices that create large barriers for entire groups of people, and I know that even tangential comments can come from (even a slightly) racist root. However, I think this is even too tangential for my understanding. So once again, please share with me what is offensive about this girl's cosplay? What is the racist root that we are exposing? When something is this far off tangent from direct racism, does intent not come into play?
I am genuinely asking because I really do want to understand.
LilWayneSuckz
Member
Michonne's skin tone DOES NOT define her character. I don't understand how some members do not understand this.
This Halloween if I dress up in a Captain America outfit, it's pretty clear who I'm dressing up as. I do not need to wear beige makeup around my mouth in order for people to understand I'm dressing up as Captain America.
The same applies here.
Her skin tone does not define her character, you can see a woman with dreadlocks, a bandana, a samurai sword, and your mind (as a fan of TWD) should default to "that's a Michonne costume," she should not have to alter her skin tone for someone to see that.
Like others have said, I think people are too set in their ways to change their minds, so I'm going back to studying...
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Time to retire this default outrage for blackface.
That woman's cosplay in the OP is completely harmless. Only offensive to the typical gang of bleeding hearts that want to be offended at things like this.
That woman's cosplay in the OP is completely harmless. Only offensive to the typical gang of bleeding hearts that want to be offended at things like this.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Agreed. You clearly don't understand the issue. Every time "blackface" topics come up there's a congregation of posters who muddy the discussion with blatantly false assumptions that aren't based on the reality of what blackface is (and isn't).
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
People who tend to throw around "kids" like they know who the fuck they're talking to are usually pretty immature
lmao
To be fair, it does make her look more like the actress. So to it isn't clear if she did it because "lul black people have big nose" (is that even a stereotype?) or because she wanted to get as similar as possible.
I'm sorry but I don't get the point your making?
TheExecutive
Member
And I am guessing she was being racist? Of which it had nothing to do with her painting her face but her beliefs and attitudes of another race?
SliceSabre
Banned
Any got that GAF Diet Racism gif?
This thread could really use it and I'm on my phone.
This thread could really use it and I'm on my phone.
Can someone give me a clear explanation of why this is racist? I honestly don't get it, and it's making me feel stupid. Isn't it more racist to be offended by this? Tiptoeing around stuff like this seems weirder and less progressive to me but I'd really love to understand the other side here.
Not remotely the same thing, silly child. And sorry I'm not indulging your disire to make my ethnicity a costume.
----
Read up.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=915592
Byakuya769
Member
Honestly wouldn't have cared about the skin, but that nose.. Man.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't call it racist at all, she painted her face to be more accurate, not to belittle or be offensive.
xBladeM6x
Member
Why on earth would you think calling out racism is racist in the first place?
itzknickknac
Member
This. I can't see how this is racist when she's trying to to accurately cosplay as Michonne. Everyone needs to recheck the definition of racist.
I understand the issue well enough to that I'm not gonna get anywhere discussing it with you. I also know when someone isn't arguing in good faith and is choosing to talk down to their opponents rather than engage them respectfully. Peace, man.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Honestly? I wouldn't call this racist, just culturally insensitive, and to a culture she may or may not be aware of. Can't say because I don't know the woman personally, obviously.
Blackface for cosplay is just generally not smart, especially since you can cosplay characters of a different skin color than your own just fine as long as your gear is tight.
I know what you're saying, but
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
OT: dressing up as Cpt America, or Iron Man is a different league than Michonne. These are two well known characters from popular comics and movies, the other is a popular character from a TV show not everyone watches. The example of the caucasian Michonne doesn't really apply, because she's carrying two zombie-cosplayers with her. Without the two zombies, she'd be a white girl in rags rocking dreads. Maybe this German chick doesn't have friends who like to be chained up and dragged around all night?
Summer Haze
Banned
It really fucking pisses me off how offended people get over shit like this. If people are painting their skin a darker/lighter tone as a way of mocking or belittling a certain race, then yes, that's clearly wrong....but this girl is doing this out of nothing but admiration for a character on a TV show, a character who happens to be black, and a character she wants to portray as accurately as she can. The only thing this girl is guilty of, imo, is underestimating just how fucking overboard PC people are these days.
Europe has such an history of racism that it is crazy to peg America as more racist, specially given how europe exported theirs to a whole another continent.
What? She's trying to look like her.. She's emulating the facial details of the character.
You can cosplay whatever character you want just don't try to change your race in order to do so.
Especially considering when the cosplay community does have a racism problem aimed primarily at black cosplayers.
SteveWinwood
Member
why couldnt you just post this in here?
Arjen
Member
Ah the famous picture of Eva Braun that every European has on their wall to be reminded what Blackface is.
Touche, nice find.
……forgetit
Member
"n*gger" was not always a racist term, and at times was only used to refer to all black people. It's the history behind it that makes it offensive. Surprising to you or not there are countries that don't know about the offense and just here it as "n*gga" in music and will refer to friends that way. I can't fault those people for doing it, but I can fault them if they keep saying it after learning that it's offensive. Yes the problem is the past, but due to the connotation of it it's just as offensive as saying "n*gger" or an other racial slur.
Let me put it this way, only a few small exceptions blackface is always offensive. Just like saying a racial slur or multiple other culturally insensitive things.
PhoenixDark
Banned
From the recently closed thread...
Blackface:
Not a single point relates to the cosplay in the OP. Blackface IS racist. This cosplay isn't blackface.
Blackface:
Not a single point relates to the cosplay in the OP. Blackface IS racist. This cosplay isn't blackface.
BTW the misguided people bringing up Whiteface or the White Chicks movie are simply mudding the conversation and turning this into a 'me too' situation. It doesn't work when Whites have traditionally been the opressive race and have almost never experience race descrimination directly. This way of arguing only detracts from the genuine discussion about why this particular form of cosplaying is racist or not.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Why does she have to paint herself black
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