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[Prophet Steve]

I don't agree with people saying she shouldn't paint her face black because she can represent the character without it. Now, I think it is true she can represent her without painting her face black and I am not saying that there are no problems with this because of that, but I don't think she would want to.

There are different reasons for cosplaying and some may want to represent their character as accurately as they can. Now I think that is the case here. Like it or not, I'd say that the character being black is quite an identifying trait of her and it makes sense to replicate that in a costume. Personally I recognize the character easier this way.

It isn't about just "getting away" with the character for many people, you have cosplayers that take on the role entirely by also acting like the characters and not getting out of that role. It isn't necessary, but it can be fun for cosplayers to resemble their characters as much as they can.

 

[Two Words]

Because we exist in a society where white people painted their faces to mock black people under the banner of comedy for years.

Not everyone who paints their face black is being racist, but there's still a huge stigma attached to it because of all the shit Al Jolson did years ago. Is it fair? Is she racist? No, but anyone who does it hits a nerve that still runs through our culture that we aren't ready to deal with yet, especially not as a costume, respectful or not. It's ignorant in that context and I'm surprised how many are in denial about it. We don't exist in a bubble, we're part of an evolving society and should be more sensitive to where we came from and what happened before.

It doesn't have to be ignorance or racism. A white person can simply think "I know blackface was done with racist intent, but I want to look like my favorite character. I'm going to try my best to look like my favorite character, and that involves darkening my skin".

Assuming the person puts out a good effort to do the character right, I think the onus is put on the majority to not jump to reactionary conclusions.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

So Obama mask with suit and tie on? Are you putting shitty foundation on your extremities to hide your skin color for reasons?

I don't see why that matters. The person in the OP is being perfectly respectful with her costume and people say it doesn't matter. Why does that suddenly change when the person is wearing a mask instead of painting their skin? Would it be OK if she painted her face black but kept the rest of her skin white?

 

[Brakke]

Dear Idiots,

Stop doing blackface. Just stop. We don't need to have this conversation every year. Just let it go.

Love,

Everyone

 

[Bjorka]

You have to know that the concept of blackface is non existant in Germany. So she couldnt know that this pisses off some people on the other end of the ocean.

You have to know that you're wrong.

Blackface isn't exclusive to the US. White supremacy is not exclusive to the US. It's a global phenomenon that the US has had the monopoly on since it became the world's biggest exporter of culture. Sorry, you're just wrong.

In this thread, **white people and people who are "part black" judge whether something is racist. Things surely haven't changed a bit. The people who hardly experience racism are still the ones who think they're qualified to decide what it is.

If you're white and really interested in getting rid of racism and white supremacy, you'll stop telling the world your definition of it is the most accurate.

 

[Sai-kun]

You bring up an interesting point.

Plenty of gaffers were going nuts over Bale playing Moses in Exodus because he's too white to play an Egyptian.

I wonder if Bale was darkened up for the movie would this group be more or less offended than keeping him as white while playing Moses.

Personally, probably more.

 

[SmokyDave]

You have to know that you're wrong.

Blackface isn't exclusive to the US. White supremacy is not exclusive to the US. It's a global phenomenon that the US has had the monopoly on since it became the world's biggest exporter of culture. Sorry, you're just wrong.

In this thread, non-black people and people who are "part black" judge whether something is racist. Things surely haven't changed a bit. The people who hardly experience racism are still the ones who think they're qualified to decide what it is.

If you're really interested in getting rid of racism, you'll stop telling the world your definition of it is the most accurate.

That sounds dodgy as fuck.

People gotta start posting pictures of their forearms along with their posts.

 

[Mikeside]

This makes it obvious you haven't read any of my posts that weren't addressing you specifically

Correct, I read the OP and a couple dozen posts then posted to make my point. There's a whole lot of the same argument being made in this thread which I don't really have the energy to go through, especially as I don't think anybody has actually squared up to the points I'm trying to make & responded to them, rather than just tell me my analogies are bad.

Fine, maybe they're bad, but I've explained the point I'm trying to highlight, so maybe respond to that rather than focus on the thing that really doesn't matter.

 

[kamorra]

You have to know that you're wrong.

Blackface isn't exclusive to the US. White supremacy is not exclusive to the US. It's a global phenomenon that the US has had the monopoly on since it became the world's biggest exporter of culture. Sorry, you're just wrong.

In this thread, non-black people and people who are "part black" judge whether something is racist. Things surely haven't changed a bit. The people who hardly experience racism are still the ones who think they're qualified to decide what it is.

If you're white and really interested in getting rid of racism and white supremacy, you'll stop telling the world your definition of it is the most accurate.

"part-black"? What is that supposed to mean?

edit
Oh, I get it. Whites with blackface

 

[Two Words]

You have to know that you're wrong.

Blackface isn't exclusive to the US. White supremacy is not exclusive to the US. It's a global phenomenon that the US has had the monopoly on since it became the world's biggest exporter of culture. Sorry, you're just wrong.

In this thread, non-black people and people who are "part black" judge whether something is racist. Things surely haven't changed a bit. The people who hardly experience racism are still the ones who think they're qualified to decide what it is.

If you're white and really interested in getting rid of racism and white supremacy, you'll stop telling the world your definition of it is the most accurate.

I'm black. ive been saying I don't think her cosplay is racist at all.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

"part-black"? What is that supposed to mean?

edit
Oh, I get it. Whites with blackface

Somebody identified themselves as part black

 

[RukusProvider]

That sounds dodgy as fuck.

People gotta start posting pictures of their forearms along with their posts.

Come on Dave. Thinking in absolutes is the way to build tolerance. Get with the program.

 

[anaron]

Dear Idiots,

Stop doing blackface. Just stop. We don't need to have this conversation every year. Just let it go.

Love,

Everyone

And we're done here.

 

[Bjorka]

"part-black"? What is that supposed to mean?

Great cosplay and I'm part black lol. People need to stop being so sensitive as she jsut wanted a faithful recreation of the character she was cosplaying.

Exactly! I don't know, but apparently it gives you authority.

 

[freddy]

You have to know that you're wrong.

Blackface isn't exclusive to the US. White supremacy is not exclusive to the US. It's a global phenomenon that the US has had the monopoly on since it became the world's biggest exporter of culture. Sorry, you're just wrong.

In this thread, **white people and people who are "part black" judge whether something is racist. Things surely haven't changed a bit. The people who hardly experience racism are still the ones who think they're qualified to decide what it is.

If you're white and really interested in getting rid of racism and white supremacy, you'll stop telling the world your definition of it is the most accurate.

How are we judging who is white and "part black". There's no colour chart next to people's posts.

 

[Camp Lo]

I don't see why that matters. The person in the OP is being perfectly respectful with her costume and people say it doesn't matter. Why does that suddenly change when the person is wearing a mask instead of painting their skin? Would it be OK if she painted her face black but kept the rest of her skin white?

It's not respectful.

It does matter.

Painting your skin to wear Obama mask isn't respectful.

Any combination of skin painting to compensate for a particular cosplay of a real person isn't respectful nor is it necessary.

I won't even address what she did to her nose.

 

[DY_nasty]

I'm black. ive been saying I don't think her cosplay is racist at all.

Racist through intent?

There isn't a single angle where "progressive blackface" like this is anything but incredibly ignorant in even the best case scenario.

 

[Bjorka]

I'm black. ive been saying I don't think her cosplay is racist at all.

The majority of black people disagree with you. You're in the super minority with this one. Your opinion is welcome but overruled.

 

[Two Words]

It's not respectful.

It does matter.

Painting your skin to wear Obama mask isn't respectful.

Any combination of skin painting to compensate for a particular cosplay of a real person isn't respectful nor is it necessary.

I won't even address what she did to her nose.

"because reasons"

 

[pants]

Eh, doesnt bother me. Sucks for people it rustles though and I hope you all give this lady that feedback constructively.

 

[Camp Lo]

"because reasons"

"reasons already stated in this thread numerous times"

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Lol these black face threads repeat themselves every time. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=845876

Should just add this to the OP as a TL: DR for this thread

 

[DY_nasty]

The majority of black people disagree with you. You're in the super minority with this one, friend. Your opinion is welcome but overruled.

He can be that validating black friend someone can fall back on. Don't take that from him.

 

[SparkPeople]

I don't agree with people saying she shouldn't paint her face black because she can represent the character without it. Now, I think it is true she can represent her without painting her face black and I am not saying that there are no problems with this because of that, but I don't think she would want to.

There are different reasons for cosplaying and some may want to represent their character as accurately as they can. Now I think that is the case here. Like it or not, I'd say that the character being black is quite an identifying trait of her and it makes sense to replicate that in a costume. Personally I recognize the character easier this way.

It isn't about just "getting away" with the character for many people, you have cosplayers that take on the role entirely by also acting like the characters and not getting out of that role. It isn't necessary, but it can be fun for cosplayers to resemble their characters as much as they can.

Yeah, I agree with this. I've seen cosplayers do all kinds of crazy stuff, from spending thousands on their costumes to lugging around 5 foot props for days.

I don't think she was malicious about it, just a little bit ignorant of the history.

The majority of black people disagree with you. You're in the super minority with this one. Your opinion is welcome but overruled.

He can be that validating black friend someone can fall back on. Don't take that from him.

Thank you for telling us how to be black. Obviously if we have a dissenting opinion its only to validate others' ignorance, because we aren't autonomous individuals.

Get fucked.

 

[SmokyDave]

Come on Dave. Thinking in absolutes is the way to build tolerance. Get with the program.

Every time I think I'm finally with the program, the program changes.

 

[justjustin]

Wanting to accurately rep a strong, female, minority character - yep, textbook prejudice.

I say it's not racist. Ignorant, maybe, but definitely not hateful.

I agree she's not a hateful person, but I don't think racism has to be hateful by nature.

 

[Prophet Steve]

The majority of black people disagree with you. You're in the super minority with this one. Your opinion is welcome but overruled.

Your authority is as valid as his. We don't know what the opinion is of the majority of black people here.

 

[GrandHarrier]

The majority of black people disagree with you. You're in the super minority with this one. Your opinion is welcome but overruled.

How do you overrule an opinion? You can disagree with them but it's still their opinion. I'm pretty sure there aren't race councils that issue decrees on how everyone of a particular ethnicity is supposed to believe.

Unless there really is and I missed the memo.

 

[Two Words]

Racist through intent?

There isn't a single angle where "progressive blackface" like this is anything but incredibly ignorant in even the best case scenario.

Her intent is to look like a character. Not racist.

Your second point is just a giant assumption with nothing backing it up. I disagree with it completely. There exists the situation where a white person can change their skin tone to look more like a specific black person and it not be racist or ignorant.

 

[Syntsui]

The majority of black people disagree with you. You're in the super minority with this one. Your opinion is welcome but overruled.

What is the majority you talking about? Also, which country are they from?

 

[Anustart]

Racist through intent?

There isn't a single angle where "progressive blackface" like this is anything but incredibly ignorant in even the best case scenario.

How is it progressive blackface? And your post is coming off like you're upset a black person isn't offended by this.

 

[Samara]

How do you cosplay a part black tho?

 

[Bjorka]

Yeah, I agree with this. I've seen cosplayers do all kinds of crazy stuff, from spending thousands on their costumes to lugging around 5 foot props for days.

I don't think she was malicious about it, just a little bit ignorant of the history.

Even if she didn't know the history, she does now, and she's still planning to go through with it. That's malicious.

 

[backflip10019]

How do you cosplay a part black tho?

If you're white, you don't. Simple as that.

 

[Two Words]

"reasons already stated in this thread numerous times"

Haven't heard a good one yet, honestly. Is it so wrong to ask people to not react quick and irrationally about this? Don't allow knee-jerk reactions to stop you from thinking about it further.

 

[kamorra]

Exactly! I don't know, but apparently it gives you authority.

Oh, ok. Weird.

But seriously I don't fault you for not getting it but you are super offensive by saying white people hardly experience racism. Just take a quick look outside the US to see how ignorant that is.

 

[GrandHarrier]

How do you cosplay a part black tho?

I'd assume like this.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You bring up an interesting point.

Plenty of gaffers were going nuts over Bale playing Moses in Exodus because he's too white to play an Egyptian.

I wonder if Bale was darkened up for the movie would this group be more or less offended than keeping him as white while playing Moses.

It would be more offensive because it completely misses the point of people being irritated over a white guy being cast for an Egyptian role. See: Tropic Thunder.

 

[Two Words]

If you're white, you don't. Simple as that.

That's silly and limiting people doing innocent actions to avoid knee-jerk reactions.

 

[DY_nasty]

Your authority is as valid as his. We don't know what the opinion is of the majority of black people here.

Majority of blacks are pretty vehemently against blackface in all forms.

In this situation, the person doing it isn't shucking and jiving but there is still a fuckload of ignorance at play - the double down based around her intent absolving her and skins needing to be tougher really just muck up arguments though.

 

[Dude Abides]

Nobody should dress up as anybody not of their own race. Only exception is everyone is allowed to dress up as a white person.

 

[Anustart]

I'd assume like this.

White and blackface in the same costume? Suicide.

 

[RukusProvider]

Racist through intent?

There isn't a single angle where "progressive blackface" like this is anything but incredibly ignorant in even the best case scenario.

What is the racist intent her wanting to look like a character for cosplay?

Seriously did she run around going "lol how black I look!" At no point did she try to make it about race first and character second. The people who got offended are doing that for her though! Those offended are having a pretty tough time looking past the race element and discarding anything intent after that.

If you what to teach people, then teach and educate but please let the pitchforks at home.

 

[Mesousa]

Her intent is to look like a character. Not racist.

Your second point is just a giant assumption with nothing backing it up. I disagree with it completely. There exists the situation where a white person can change their skin tone to look more like a specific black person and it not be racist or ignorant.

All those minstrel actors were intending to look like characters too. Just because she is copying a character does not keep the act from being racist.

 

[Kinyou]

Nobody should dress up as anybody not of their own race. Only exception is everyone is allowed to dress up as a white person.

Well everyone wants to cosplay the dude. Can't blame them for that

 

[Two Words]

The majority of black people disagree with you. You're in the super minority with this one. Your opinion is welcome but overruled.

Uhh, what is this? Is there some black voting here to determine the black people opinion on this?

 

[AkuMifune]

It doesn't have to be ignorance or racism. A white person can simply think "I know blackface was done with racist intent, but I want to look like my favorite character. I'm going to try my best to look like my favorite character, and that involves darkening my skin".

Assuming the person puts out a good effort to do the character right, I think the onus is put on the majority to not jump to reactionary conclusions.

The onus should never be on the majority though. You can't assume everyone will be cool with it just because you meant well.

So this is her onus. All over her onus.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

What exactly is the net gain for saying people should paint themselves to match whatever character they want to portray?

 

[Bjorka]

What is the majority you talking about? Also, which country are they from?

Great cosplay and I'm part black lol. People need to stop being so sensitive as she jsut wanted a faithful recreation of the character she was cosplaying.

You caught me, I don't have any data on this one. Gotcha!

You're either being a contrarian, or you're lacking in a general understanding of how the black community feels about whites reviving racist vestiges of history for entertainment purposes.

Which?

 

[Prophet Steve]

Majority of blacks are pretty vehemently against blackface in all forms.

In this situation, the person doing it isn't shucking and jiving but there is still a fuckload of ignorance at play - the double down based around her intent absolving her and skins needing to be tougher really just muck up arguments though.

There are few people here who I doubt are not against blackface.

The question is whether someone just painting their face black to portray a specific black character still constitutes as blackface.

I've seen a couple opinions here of black people that aren't too opposed to what she did.