Mighty Chin
Banned
And if they wanted to smear white Face all over themselves I wouldn't have an issue with it. It's not racist in the slightest.
Cosplayer being labeled Racist for her blackface Michonne From The Walking Dead'
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And if they wanted to smear white Face all over themselves I wouldn't have an issue with it. It's not racist in the slightest.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Dear God, yes. I worked at a technical support center through the 2011-2012 presidential campaigns/election. We had customer in Texas, and you always had time to chit chat on the phone while waiting for things to load up. It was absolutely mind-boggling how many customers would talk politics, bring up Obama, and start a phrase off, "Now I'm not racist, but . . ." It was generally a pretty good cue that you were about to hear some racist shit.
In these threads I'm always trying to make that important note about the difference between someone being a racist and exhibiting racist ideology or behavior.
I've said some ignorant shit in my life but I'm far from racist. If I'm ever corrected for my ignorance, I take that L and learn from it.
If being proud means defending my right to be as offensive as I please but risk upsetting potential friends and mates, and being respectful means accepting that the world doesn't bend and stretch to my rules but I can enjoy it anyway, I would prefer to be respectful.
I've said some ignorant shit in my life but I'm far from racist. If I'm ever corrected for my ignorance, I take that L and learn from it.
If being proud means defending my right to be as offensive as I please but risk upsetting potential friends and mates, and being respectful means accepting that the world doesn't bend and stretch to my rules but I can enjoy it anyway, I would prefer to be respectful.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Words, stop what? You know what? Be the angriest person here if you like. I'm sorry for the statement. I'm sorry for my experiences. I'm sorry you're so damn tired of white people being picked on "for black reasons" but Hispanics and Asians are ignored. I will gladly put myself on your ignore list..peace and love to you.
This is exactly what my problem regarding this issue is. I have seen people paint their skin to be Hulk, Mystique, Starfire, etc But doing that in any other circumstance looks ridiculous and frankly dumb. Forget racist if you will. It looks dumb.
Okay. Hypothetical.
In this hypothetical I am a white mid 20s boy. I am a big Michael Jackson fan. I am fully aware of racism and black face to an extent that you would call well-informed. For halloween I want to go as Michael Jackson, say the "Beat It' outfit. I use make up and style my hair so it looks like Michael Jackson. Let's say I already have a physical body similar to Michael Jackson at the time. Thin nose, very skinny body, curly black hair. All I really need to do is apply make up to my face to darken it to the appropriate tone. Let's say I pull it off and at first glance, I look like Michael Jackson. The entire time I tried to make sure I was not giving off any offensive representation of black people, but strictly wanted to look like a spitting-image of Michael Jackson as possible.
Did I do something racist?
You really don't see how ticky-tacky that post was?
Vincent Alexander
Member
Chocolate people, coupled with the $8.50 lunch thread, is making me hungry. Might be time to bail and get food.
what happened to james brown
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I've lost, what I thought, we're phenomenal friends for giving me the "No offense, he/she was being a nigger" line..I mean YEARS of knowing these people. It sucks, for sure..
spit take .gif Was thinking the same thing. Poor James Brown.
And the ironic thing is that a white person would still have to lighten his skin tone to match Michael's.
Too many people just look at the word "racist" and automatically assume the label is a permanent black mark on the character of a person.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Holy shit. That's depressing. Do people really think a preceding "no offense" "I'm not racist, but" etc. shields them from any fallout for said statements? Like, if you were to scold someone, I wonder if they'd say, "but I said no offense!" I really wish I knew what was going through their heads.
I do have to admit, I am fascinated that more people are afraid of the term racist now than ever before. It makes me wonder if we really are making progress. If that label frightens people enough, maybe they will learn to choke it because it won't fly in our society and the older hateful generation won't be able to keep raising more racists without repercussions.
People should be shamed for being racist.
That said, I do wish more people would take responsibility for their goofs. A racist act doesn't mean everyone is deeming you racist.
It's saying "I don't really know how to phrase this without being offensive or sounding racist, so I'm going to put the onus on you to remove any offensive or racist intent in this statement so that it doesn't come off like it sounds.
here's a hypothetical for yours
is that white mid 20s boy really losing anything by not coloring his skin? are the clothes, hair, dancing and voice not enough for people to recognize michael jackson? will his costume be ruined or will he feel incomplete the entire night by not painting over his face? is possibly upsetting the sensibilities of those around him trying to enjoy halloween that much less important than his need to faithfully recreate the entire michael jackson experience?
mentallyinept
Banned
Ah, I finally get your definition of blackface and the connection to why you think this is blackface.
I still don't agree with it, but at least I can actually speak to why I don't.
To me there are two key points that differentiate this from being blackface (and therefore racist):
- The fact she wasn't using a stereotype to modify her features but instead was emulating a specific person
- The fact that her impersonation was somewhat accurate.
Now if your contention is that her execution was poor enough and stereotypes were the basis of her impersonation not the character, I'll simply agree to disagree and leave it at that. If your contention is that any attempt to portray a black person by modifying your features is racist, I cannot agree with that at all.
It's as stark a difference between attempting to portray Norman Reedus by using this picture as a reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Norman_Reedus_by_Gage_Skidmore.jpg
or this one:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fpopcandy%2F2014%2F01%2F29%2Flucky-charms%2F5018191%2F&h=0&w=0&tbnid=wfg6zN6QtKCQBM&zoom=1&tbnh=259&tbnw=194&docid=Qt71TJTTW9R5lM&tbm=isch&ei=ZndFVMfQHsTriQK714HgCQ&ved=0CA0QsCUoAw
Yeah, sure. Let's say this mid 20s white boy feels his portrayal is incomplete if he doesn't nail the appearance better. I felt that way, so I lightened my skin. I thought I looked too dark naturally, and that my chin was not square enough and didn't have a cleft and my nose was too wide. So I lightened my skin, used make up to square my jaw, have a cleft and make my nose look slimmer.
I already had this discussion on a friends Facebook page and I at first thought it wasn't blackface. But because so many people (who were black and who were not) said that it was blackface, it doesn't matter and is offensive to them.
Also the way the girl handed the whole situation was ridiculous.
Also the way the girl handed the whole situation was ridiculous.
nephilimdj
Member
you didn't really answer any of my questions and just interjected your own quest to look like a whiter mj
You asked me if the white guy feels something is missing if he doesn't darken his skin. I said yes. In this hypothetical, he feel's his portrayal is incomplete if he is white but is trying to look like this.
I don't see how painting your face to look like someone else as a way to pay tribute to his/her character in a TV-show is racist. I mean, the whole point of cosplay is looking as close as possible to your source material and the actress portraying the character happens to be black in this case. I don't like generalizing, but literally the only country on earth where this would be an issue is the U.S.A.
With a thread like this being at 1500+ posts I can't even imagine what the yearly (if last few years are any indication at least) Zwarte Piet thread is going to look like. You guys are going to love discussing the shit that's currently going down in the Netherlands when it comes to that 'blackface' character.
With a thread like this being at 1500+ posts I can't even imagine what the yearly (if last few years are any indication at least) Zwarte Piet thread is going to look like. You guys are going to love discussing the shit that's currently going down in the Netherlands when it comes to that 'blackface' character.
and if it makes those around him uncomfortable or upset? is it really worth it?
Saying you're not a racist is silly (we all are, we just don't express it in the same sense), especially in situations where it can be deemed a knee-jerk reaction. It doesn't help that her response is pretty poor too.
It is nearly always poor form, and usually offensive, for someone to impersonate a minority of some sort -- especially when it's someone from a majority class impersonating a minority -- regardless of the intent. This isn't just something specific to the US. Different countries do have different levels of acceptance usually based on previous practices, but in recent years it's become unacceptable in many. The only exception I can think of is using a place of power to help garner awareness to a specific issue, but applying makeup to imitate that is always a bad idea.
It is nearly always poor form, and usually offensive, for someone to impersonate a minority of some sort -- especially when it's someone from a majority class impersonating a minority -- regardless of the intent. This isn't just something specific to the US. Different countries do have different levels of acceptance usually based on previous practices, but in recent years it's become unacceptable in many. The only exception I can think of is using a place of power to help garner awareness to a specific issue, but applying makeup to imitate that is always a bad idea.
It's not black face because he's not black because he's racially black. He's a shadow version of Link.
At the end of the day there are enough people that would find the cosplay offensive that we can agree not to do it because blackface is wrong. Unless proven otherwise, I still believe blackface is the act of painting your skin in a specific way that is meant to provoke negative connotations about the black community. The cosplayer, in my opinion, did not do that.
I don't get what makes her cosplay blackface but we'll just agree not to do it. I just dont get why and I genuinely want to learn but fine. I rather not come off offensive.
I don't get what makes her cosplay blackface but we'll just agree not to do it. I just dont get why and I genuinely want to learn but fine. I rather not come off offensive.
Well that is getting into a different argument, but fine. If the guy just wants to have a good time with everybody and wants to avoid any controversy, then he shouldn't do it. If he wants to do the character his way and is willing to deal with the backlash he may get, then more power to him. I guess I'm not as concerned about the public shock he may get. As long as he's doing what is right, he shouldn't worry so much about knee jerk reactions. If he doesn't want to deal with them, then he shouldn't do it.
Personally I try not to attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by ignorance, and in this case I don't understand how people are making the leap from what is obviously a racially insensitive costume to confidently claiming that she's a racist IE this girl thinks her race is superior and she's intolerant of blacks. I just don't see the calculations being made anywhere.
again, no one is calling her racist
jimmythepage
Member
As a so called member of "black ethnicity" myself, I think that any other member feeling offended by this should seek a planet for themselves where there is no risk to have their feelings hurt.
Seriously, the makeup was good, the prosthetic nose was lol worthy but I guess she couldn't do anything better with her resources, that's it.
There are tons of bad done cosplay, cardboard gundams/halo armours, but it's not like the author or the concept artist behind them is entitled to be offended by other people portrayal of that.
Most of all It's stupid to call that racist because she was definitely cosplaying a character she liked it, not to make a joke of it.
I can't believe people are fighting over the ghost of a caricatural stereotype of 19th century, it just shows poor manners, and poor minds.
Seriously, the makeup was good, the prosthetic nose was lol worthy but I guess she couldn't do anything better with her resources, that's it.
There are tons of bad done cosplay, cardboard gundams/halo armours, but it's not like the author or the concept artist behind them is entitled to be offended by other people portrayal of that.
Most of all It's stupid to call that racist because she was definitely cosplaying a character she liked it, not to make a joke of it.
I can't believe people are fighting over the ghost of a caricatural stereotype of 19th century, it just shows poor manners, and poor minds.
So you're saying it's not possible for someone to look like a character without trying to look like the race of the person playing the character? The character Michonne is not defined by race. It's just an empty set of clothes and motives. The actress playing the character just so happens to be black. If the character was play by an asian woman, would it be ok if she painted herself a yellow complexion and taped her eyelids?
Cosplayer being labeled Racist for her blackface Michonne From The Walking Dead'
It's not possible to look like a character without looking like a character. Skin color has a lot to do with looking like a character. I don't know how this can be denied.
no one in the thread. we already had one person wrongly accused
the fuck? how do you say that after saying this
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
People really, really love blackface
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I've gotta feed the fam, so I'll need a couple of more minutes to really answer this from MY view of things.. so I'll leave you with
Having said that..
Defending it like their livelihood depends on it. Amazing, the shit people will go to bat for.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
seems no malice intended. don't see the issue
chancellor
Member
It is pretty ignorant tbh, she could have pulled it off without changing her skin. Would be pretty insensitive if I were to dress up as Blade and change my skin colour.
What?
You aren't making a point here. If I look like this
and I want to look like this
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I would have to change my appearance in several ways. One of those ways involves changing the tone of my skin. I can't make myself look like Michonne without changing my skin tone in this case. I have the opinion that you should only cosplay if you can cosplay well. So if you can't go from the first picture and make yourself look like the second picture well, don't do it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Check out the Yes, You're Racist Twitter for a stream of extremely racist statements with a disclaimer
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
That's a reasonable stance to take. This sort of thing might or might not make make you a racist, but it definitely does make you look like a jerk for doing something you know will upsets a lot of people for no good reason and is pretty easy to avoid.
Gormless Noodle
Member
Thank you, sir. Nice post.
okay, are they referring to the person or the act? clearly "it" isn't referring to the person
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