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[Gowans]

Personally I think you're exaggerating your Wipeout woes too. The process is hardly cumbersome or difficult. To join a friends game you simply set the opponents filter to friends and bob's your uncle. It's not difficult and all you have to do is navigate a couple of quick menus.

Its a extra barrier to playing with friends. I have a tonne of people I play online with on 360 and its never an effort to get playing with Live. That is what I'm saying as well as Sonys worst mistake to form a good modern online experience with not making a headset included with the system.

 

[supermackem]

I agree with gowans the ease of xbl is what makes it so good. The matchmaking is great and now going back to server lists feels so out of date.

 

[LAMBO]

I agree with gowans the ease of xbl is what makes it so good. The matchmaking is great and now going back to server lists feels so out of date.

That's the saddest thing i've ever heard.

 

[TheExodu5]

Matchmaking/Party systems are really one of the best inovations in online gaming for a long time thats why most new games are now using these.

I think Sever lists are really dated now personally but I could not get over the fact I couldn't invite in Wipeout.

Everything is just so much more extra effort on PSN thats why I tend to dislike it but mainly because I like to chat with buds when I play online, its very social for me and PSN has never replicated that for me.

Matchmaking on their own are crap. They offer no flexibility whatsoever. Resistance has a much better system, where you have both the option of matchmaking and server browsing.

Not to mention, I don't think I could stand very many online games for long if the games don't have dedicated servers. I don't think Resistance has dedicated servers either, so I won't be playing it for extended amounts of time. When I play an online game for a long time (CS, TF2, etc...) I like the option of joining dedicated servers that I know and like. Joining random games is all fine and dandy, but the games become so much better when you're part of a new online community as you become a regular at your favorite dedicated server.

 

[Kilrogg]

Live will never be free. MS makes far too much money from it, and outside of the hardcore neckbeard gaming community, who complains?

I have to respond to this. I just have too.

My understanding is that you've got things backwards. The ones who complain the least precisely are hardcore/avid gamers. Everytime someone says "I can't stand the fact that Live isn't free", there will always, always be a gamer to reply "well, considering the quality of the service? I'd rather pay for it than have a free alternative that isn't as good".

Anyone that's not too invested in video games but would consider buying a 360 would complain about the 360's online service not being free (along with some gamers, mind you). The 360's online might be great in terms of performance, and MS might make money from it, but I always wonder if they could make it free, less feature-heavy (essentially, a bit worse), yet have more people play on it. However good Live is, the price is still a barrier of entry, especially when every competitor, from home consoles to handheld systems, however worse they are, don't charge money for online.

 

[Private Hoffman]

Its a extra barrier to playing with friends. I have a tonne of people I play online with on 360 and its never an effort to get playing with Live. That is what I'm saying as well as Sonys worst mistake to form a good modern online experience with not making a headset included with the system.

Server issues aside in LBP, what is the issue with joining friends? It is easy as hell...press start, go to friends, it brings up all the active friends and you can send them an invite.

Matchmaking on their own are crap. They offer no flexibility whatsoever. Resistance has a much better system, where you have both the option of matchmaking and server browsing.

Not to mention, I don't think I could stand very many online games for long if the games don't have dedicated servers. I don't think Resistance has dedicated servers either, so I won't be playing it for extended amounts of time. When I play an online game for a long time (CS, TF2, etc...) I like the option of joining dedicated servers that I know and like. Joining random games is all fine and dandy, but the games become so much better when you're part of a new online community as you become a regular at your favorite dedicated server.

Resistance DOES have dedicated servers. How else do you think they can make 60 player battles run so smoothly?

 

[DanteFox]

i just noticed every time Geoff blinks, he blinks twice instead of once.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

The next part is up on the front page. Can't link it since I'm on my PS3. FYI this is the one on PSN.

 

[No_Style]

Hmm... Pachter is speaking a lot of crazy in this second episode.

 

[Kard8p3]

Does anyone believe the whole less than one million people playing PS3 games online bull? I just can't see it. It's seemed like keighley wanted to keep it a positive discussion but the guests quickly turned it into a PSN bash session.

 

[Struct09]

Part 2 links

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[Cday]

If he means 1 million at any one time. I could believe it.

 

[Angst]

"Less trash-talk on Live than on PSN". Pachter says that because PSN is free it attracts more punks trash-talking than Live does... well....

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Does anyone believe the whole less than one million people playing PS3 games online bull? I just can't see it. It's seemed like keighley wanted to keep it a positive discussion but the guests quickly turned it into a PSN bash session.

Exactly. An why not discuss the games themselves which are arguably better and more broader than on XBLA?

Also, Pachters "park" analogy was off. You get as much assholes and idiots on both platforms. And how could they spin free as being bad? Right now it's a matter of preference but that doesn't make the PSN that awful of an option like the guests made it seem.

Dissapointed the discussion was focused more on HOME which may not even be released until next summer. TALK ABOUT THE GAMES MAN! Or do you guys at GT not think that the PSN offers enough compelling content?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Part 2 links

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Thank you sir!

And Angst, I agree. The whole conversation at that point was more off than at any other point.

 

[Angst]

Yeah, maybe it would have been a good choice to have at least one person in the panel that actually uses PSN. When the host asked them if they played games on PSN, all three guest said "No". So why are you even on the show???

 

[Kard8p3]

Yeah, maybe it would have been a good choice to have at least one person in the panel that actually uses PSN. When the host asked them if they played games on PSN, all three guest said "No". So why are you even on the show???

I agree with this. The whole point of this episode is to discuss the 3 online services so you'd think they'd get a panel that had a good amount of experience with all 3 so they could have a good discussion about it. Instead it's pretty much an xbox live love fest. I also have to say I found it to be quite ridiculous how pachter tried to put a negative spin on PSN being free.

 

[Anony]

Yeah, maybe it would have been a good choice to have at least one person in the panel that actually uses PSN. When the host asked them if they played games on PSN, all three guest said "No". So why are you even on the show???

there's a reason why they dont use psn, get the message

pachter's analogy is correct though, the PROBABILITY of of douchebags are much greater on psn/free than live/paid

maybe i should bold and underline probability

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

I love panels that talk about a service that they dont use

and less than a million PSN gaming??:lol, prove me wrong please

 

[CoilShot]

Does anyone believe the whole less than one million people playing PS3 games online bull? I just can't see it. It's seemed like keighley wanted to keep it a positive discussion but the guests quickly turned it into a PSN bash session.

Its bull...It's not possible to be less then 1 million. Why would Sony even bother launching stuff like Home, Resistance 2 with 60 people online, Little Big Planet.

 

[solid2snake]

no one plays online on PSN?

 

[Zzoram]

Both Microsoft and Sony tell us the number of people who CONNECT to their online service, and create an account. That doesn't mean those people do anything online, other than initially check it out.

Microsoft has ~8million Gold subscribers which you know are playing games, because they are paying for it, and 14 million Total accounts Gold+Silver. Sony has 8 million accounts, which gives no indication of whether or not people ever play online, or if they just set it up to see it then forgot about it, like most people and their Wiis. 1 million of those accounts are from Japan, and we know the Japanese are adverse to online, and a lot of people have 2nd accounts on PSN for Japan just to get their demos.

Pachter is completely right in that Microsoft has turned Xbox Live Gold into an exclusive club that people want in on, and it shows because 8 million people are currently paying to be there.

 

[Erebus]

Exactly. An why not discuss the games themselves which are arguably better and more broader than on XBLA?

Also, Pachters "park" analogy was off. You get as much assholes and idiots on both platforms. And how could they spin free as being bad? Right now it's a matter of preference but that doesn't make the PSN that awful of an option like the guests made it seem.

Dissapointed the discussion was focused more on HOME which may not even be released until next summer. TALK ABOUT THE GAMES MAN! Or do you guys at GT not think that the PSN offers enough compelling content?

I agree. And Pachter better quit talking bullshit all the time, I mean "PSN being free, hurts them"?! Wtf was he thinking?:lol

 

[chespace]

I love panels that talk about a service that they dont use

and less than a million PSN gaming??:lol, prove me wrong please

They're talking about concurrent users. Last holiday, Live broke 1 million concurrent users online, so it's a significant milestone in the field.

If Sony had a million concurrent users on PSN, I'm sure they'd advertise the shit out of it too.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Pachter is completely right in that Microsoft has turned Xbox Live Gold into an exclusive club that people want in on, and it shows because 8 million people are currently paying to be there.

Let's get one thing straight, I pay because I have to. Not because I want to. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way. That being said, I pay (because I have no choice if I want to play games with friends). Now that is more of a bad thing than spinning the free PSN access. You make a fair argument though.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

They're talking about concurrent users. Last holiday, Live broke 1 million concurrent users online, so it's a significant milestone in the field.

If Sony had a million concurrent users on PSN, I'm sure they'd advertise the shit out of it too.

I think MSFT has a better model which enables them to track those stats. I have no doubt Sony is close to that though. Even if they are just logged in and not playing games their numbers are not bad.

But this was not discussed on the show. 1o minute show which pretty much drilled PSN and really didn't acknowledge it's strengths. Now I presume the Wii offering will be better?

 

[Spiegel]

Sony has 8 million accounts

14 million

http://kotaku.com/5086649/sony-responds-to-october-npd-sales-seems-pleased

Of course, the real number of ps3's online is significantly lower.

 

[womfalcs3]

There are over 750,000 PSN members who have played Warhawk alone, and it's nowhere near one of the top sellers on PS3. Xbox Live friends/connectivity is better though. Just saying they're misinformed.

 

[Il Comodino]

I agree with Pachter about the price thing. Obviously I'd like XBL to be 100% free, but PSN and Wii Connect really need to catch up. PSN is trying to catch up, but their still missing basic things like voice messages.

Good episode though

I don't agree with patcher... ok I agree with him about Home, that for an adult it's not a great idea (but in the world now and for the next years, maybe some milion of kids can like it) but not about the on-line game!

He speak about game on-line like a club for xboxlive and like a park for the PSN, wich is the problem? They think that on-line game it's good only if it has voiche chat, comunity etc... but it's not like that! I like to play game on-line without pay, without speak with anyone without thinking to a social network. I want to play and stop.

3 hardcore gamers can do the right choice!

 

[chespace]

I think MSFT has a better model which enables them to track those stats. I have no doubt Sony is close to that though. Even if they are just logged in and not playing games their numbers are not bad.

But this was not discussed on the show. 1o minute show which pretty much drilled PSN and really didn't acknowledge it's strengths. Now I presume the Wii offering will be better?

I guess we'll never know. The fact that Sony hasn't come out strongly with their PR in this area does seem to suggest they're not quite there yet.

It's kind of like Steam. We'll never know just how well they do in terms of concurrent users and/or revenues from digital distribution, even though from our own personal experiences, we have no doubt they must be bigger than Xbox Live and PSN combined.

 

[Darkpen]

What this episode should have been about:

Home = WoW = glorified chat program
Wait and see
PSN catching up

What this episode was about:

Xbox Live is bettar
Home: Maybe for the kiddies
Pachter claiming more trolls on PSN than XBL, with a $50 yearly subscription being validated as some sort of valid barrier to entry for most trolls

Here's a hint, Mike: the PS3 already has a barrier to entry, and it comes with the system's price point. If you were young enough, you would know that screaming your parents' ears off to get you a gold XBL account isn't terribly hard. Maybe if you had a son, you'd understand.

The only griefers you'll ever find on PSN are racists. On XBL, you get the racists, annoying little boys, frats, and any other variety of assholes I missed.

I swear, it feels like I'm listening to people stuck in 2007.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

What this episode should have been about:

Home = WoW = glorified chat program
Wait and see
PSN catching up

What this episode was about:

Xbox Live is bettar
Home: Maybe for the kiddies
Pachter claiming more trolls on PSN than XBL, with a $50 yearly subscription being validated as some sort of valid barrier to entry for most trolls

Here's a hint, Mike: the PS3 already has a barrier to entry, and it comes with the system's price point. If you were young enough, you would know that screaming your parents' ears off to get you a gold XBL account isn't terribly hard. Maybe if you had a son, you'd understand.

The only griefers you'll ever find on PSN are racists. On XBL, you get the racists, annoying little boys, frats, and any other variety of assholes I missed.

I swear, it feels like I'm listening to people stuck in 2007.

Totally agree. I love Pachter talk and his ways but he is plain wrong on this.

More of him on the show GT

 

[Private Hoffman]

there's a reason why they dont use psn, get the message

pachter's analogy is correct though, the PROBABILITY of of douchebags are much greater on psn/free than live/paid

maybe i should bold and underline probability

$50 a year and a free live subscription packed in with games/systems isn't a high deterrent for assholes joining Live. Pachter is, again, completely wrong.

I'm sorry, but Pachter is out of touch here. The Park analogy is terrible. And from my experience, the people that play XBL are far worse than the people that play PSN in terms of shit talking.

It's pretty obvious Pachter hasn't touched an online PS3 or 360 game at all.

I really enjoy the open nature of PSN's service where you don't have to pay in order to play online, and the service during the gameplay is typically better (when working) than the rival console's online p2p for its popular games.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Matchmaking/Party systems are really one of the best inovations in online gaming for a long time thats why most new games are now using these.

I think Sever lists are really dated now personally but I could not get over the fact I couldn't invite in Wipeout.

Everything is just so much more extra effort on PSN thats why I tend to dislike it but mainly because I like to chat with buds when I play online, its very social for me and PSN has never replicated that for me.

I agree. 8 person chat will also make things much better, and the new update should make Live even more comfortable/accessible, then it was before. The whole online component is simple and fast, that's why I still pay for Live, and barely play on my PS3 online.

 

[dreamer3kx]

Pachter-"do you play with friends on psn, do you, do you?"

I DO! What a dick.

 

[CoilShot]

What this episode should have been about:

Home = WoW = glorified chat program
Wait and see
PSN catching up

What this episode was about:

Xbox Live is bettar
Home: Maybe for the kiddies
Pachter claiming more trolls on PSN than XBL, with a $50 yearly subscription being validated as some sort of valid barrier to entry for most trolls

Here's a hint, Mike: the PS3 already has a barrier to entry, and it comes with the system's price point. If you were young enough, you would know that screaming your parents' ears off to get you a gold XBL account isn't terribly hard. Maybe if you had a son, you'd understand.

The only griefers you'll ever find on PSN are racists. On XBL, you get the racists, annoying little boys, frats, and any other variety of assholes I missed.

I swear, it feels like I'm listening to people stuck in 2007.

I was going to make a post about this also... Most of the time I just turn my mic off on xbox live because its just annoying how many kids(I would say people but most of the time its kids!) say just the most out of order things(Some even scream...Yes scream and its annoying as hell).

When I played Resistance 2 beta it was the best online experience I've ever had on a console. There was communication and order. No one was screaming or yelling and it was fun.

 

[Il Comodino]

Pachter-"do you play with friends on psn, do you, do you?"

I DO! What a dick.

:lol

 

[sun-drop]

the BR should be ashamed to run this farce with no one there who uses PSN .. i mean what a joke.

and Pachter ..what is this clown doing here .. he's welcome to make his NPD sales predictions ..but being on a show discussing the merrits of these online services ..when he openly admits to hardly ever eeven using his 360 ..let alone ps3 .. i mean the hell?

total utter joke of a show ..


you can make serious for and agasint points for XBL and PSN ... game invites for XBL are def a feature i'd like to see on psn ..but there can be no question what service offers the better quality game content .. what on XBL comes even CLOSE to the likes of downloadables warhawk/GT5p/SOCOM/EDEN/WIPEOUT-HD/Burnout .... seriously ? it's a differnt class altogeather.

 

[dfyb]

yeah, there's no real point in having an episode on online services when nobody actually uses the services they discuss on a normal basis. when a panel collectively presents a single point of view -- the typical 360 gamer in this case -- it's an ineffective panel.

the argument that a paid subscription keeps trolls out is pathetic :lol. xbox live has grown to represent the internet troll. the countless free services like steam, gamespy and battle.net aren't the ones known for their trolls -- it's the pay service xbox live that sports such a reputation. trolls are everywhere, but xbox live is really the only service that has had numerous articles written about their trolls.

 

[sykoex]

Pachter was right about the "park" analogy but for the wrong reason. PSN is like a park because it's sort of all strangers. Hardly anyone really talks on PSN so it's hard to get to know anybody. On Xbox live, not only do people speak, but it's really easy to get info on people you play online with. Like say what the last 4 games they played were. Sony should send EVERY PS3 owner a bluetooth mic FREE. Sort of like what MS is doing with sending people free memory cards for NXE. And they should include a mic with every new PS3.

Although, it's complete bullshit that on a panel talking about PS3's online service, NOBODY ACTUALLY PLAYS PS3 ONLINE. wtf? But at the end of the day it is telling that 3 people who are avid gamers seemed to have no interest in Playstation 3's online service.

 

[Zzoram]

They didn't say they didn't use PSN, just that they didn't use it much. They've been playing Resistance 2 online on it, they've all been in the HOME beta, but the reason they don't use it more is because they find Xbox Live is better. Why should they give it equal time if they can be using a superior service?

 

[Zzoram]

14 million

http://kotaku.com/5086649/sony-responds-to-october-npd-sales-seems-pleased

Of course, the real number of ps3's online is significantly lower.

That would mean like 95% of users have an online account, or a lot of people have duplicates for region locked content. That said, there's no way as many people play on PSN as Xbox Live.

As for concurrent users, Steam has a community of 17.7million accounts, and only 1.5million are ever on at one time at peak.

 

[Il Comodino]

They didn't say they didn't use PSN, just that they didn't use it much. They've been playing Resistance 2 online on it, but the reason they don't use it more is because they find Xbox Live is better. That's what they were saying.

Xboxlive is better only in the infrastructure, friends invites, comunication chat etc, but for the real on-line game Psn is better, becouse has many dedicate servers.

 

[Zzoram]

Xboxlive is better only in the infrastructure, friends invites, comunication chat etc, but for the real on-line game Psn is better, becouse has many dedicate servers.

That stuff matters A LOT, and dedicated servers only lets you have more players in a game, it doesn't make the whole experience more fun. The things Xbox Live does better are what resonates with people. Would you rather have 60 player online, or 16 player with integrated friends list showing you what everyone is doing, letting you easily compare game achievements, cross-game chat, custom soundtracks, everyone having a mic, ability to mute anyone in with 2 button presses, achievements, etc.? The Xbox Live experience is way more uniform. PSN is a patchwork of ideas without a standard. New games coming out still don't have custom sound tracks and trophies standard.

 

[sun-drop]

But at the end of the day it is telling that 3 people who are avid gamers seemed to have no interest in Playstation 3's online service.

Pachter plays gears of war once or twice a year. admited as much a few weeks agio when they where discussing the big titles of xmas season. pathetic.

 

[xS1TH L0RDx]

There's way too much hype over the new XBL experience. All they're doing is apeing Miis.

wrong, but NXE is a jumbled mess. somehow they managed to make something even more wrong than the dashboard + blades UI.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

wrong, but NXE is a jumbled mess. somehow they managed to make something even more wrong than the dashboard + blades UI.

Damnit now I don't want to update

I'd rather them get it right and delay it a month or 2 and stick to playing games on the platform. The main interest is the HDD installs anyways.

 

[sykoex]

wrong, but NXE is a jumbled mess. somehow they managed to make something even more wrong than the dashboard + blades UI.

Really? Every other impression I've heard has been the exact opposite.

 

[Il Comodino]

That stuff matters A LOT, and dedicated servers only lets you have more players in a game, it doesn't make the whole experience more fun.

"a lot" for you or for many other peoples, but not for me and many other peoples. I prefer to play with many people but not necessarily to speak to us

 

[Zzoram]

Pachter plays gears of war once or twice a year. admited as much a few weeks agio when they where discussing the big titles of xmas season. pathetic.

Pachter doesn't always have his facts right, but he's generally a realist, which is what he has to be considering his job. He initially overestimated the strength of the Playstation brand, and underestimated the Wii, but I think he's corrected for that.

He's no fanboy, he's a financial analyst. His job is to figure out which companies will make a lot of money, and when they will do it. Him saying that Gears of War 2 will be much bigger than Resistance 2 because it resonates better with consumers is just being realistic.

As for Xbox Live, he sees that 8 million people are paying $50/mo to play it, which is a hell of a lot of money every year. Microsoft doesn't need an MMO to rival World of Warcraft, because Xbox Live IS their World of Warcraft.