Human Rights Watch confirmed to be controlled by Putin
Am I doing this right?
Seriously - fuck those Ukrainian fascists.
Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.
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Human Rights Watch confirmed to be controlled by Putin
Am I doing this right?
Seriously - fuck those Ukrainian fascists.
No, I'm describing an official Ukraine political party.
As to the separatist, they are considered by the Ukraine officials as terrorists (again, while weapon-equipped right sector which is also participating in the war at east Ukraine is a "political party"). In fact separatists are mercenaries paid by pro-Russian sides. No one denies it.
It was pretty obvious from the damage to the buildings that some kind of weapon like this was used. I fully expect the world to be outraged.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/vladimir-putins-coup-112025.html#.VEZYZfmsUT8
Huge shitstorm brewing in Poland over an interview with former Minister for Foreign Affairs Radek Sikorski, according to him Russia had been planning annexation of Crimea since at least 2008 and offered former Prime Minister Donald Tusk (set to become President of the European Council on 1 December 2014) participation in partition of Ukraine.
Nothing really too unexpected, but I figured someone might find it interesting.
Huge shitstorm brewing in Poland over an interview with former Minister for Foreign Affairs Radek Sikorski, according to him Russia had been planning annexation of Crimea since at least 2008 and offered former Prime Minister Donald Tusk (set to become President of the European Council on 1 December 2014) participation in partition of Ukraine.
Nothing really too unexpected, but I figured someone might find it interesting.
Russia's government must really have gone totally insane if they think it would be permissible for an EU member state to conquer and annex parts of another country.
Well, NATO also employed cluster bombs during (at least one occasion during) the Kosovo war. You think the West gives a shit about international law or human rights? Only when it's convenient.
Resident_UA
Member
Why aren't you banned yet?!!! Why is this allowed in this thread all the time?
Resident_UA
Member
Dude, that was in response to a Yanukovich dictatorship. He was trying to sell Ukraine to Russia. I don't know if anyone is still denying that he was a Russian puppet anymore. That does not excuse Right Sector, but it really isn't comparable to what is happening in stable democracy. Image how badshit insane those parties would go if they tried to turn Germany and France into one country.
Resident_UA
Member
From the article you posted "]While it was not possible to conclusively determine responsibility for many of the attacks, the evidence points to Ukrainian government forces responsibility for several cluster munition attacks on Donetsk"
Is it me or does that sentence read weird. So is everyone using cluster bombs? Also what evidence?
Half of those are not even pictures of Right Sector. And there isn't much in those pictures that makes them "fascist". There are very few idiots with Nazi symbols, but you expect those idiots to join any nationalistic movement. That does not make this into "party philosophy". You can find more Nazi symbols during elections in any European country. Have you been watching Russian TV or something?
I think because fuck those Russian pricks is allowed. Calling out bad behaviour on both sides isn't wrong.
Also calling for people to be banned is shit.
Resident_UA
Member
You can say "fuck Ukraine", but what's up with fascism again? That's just bullshit that Russian propaganda has been trying to push for so long and it does not even stick. You can find more pictures on Russians with Nazi signs than Ukrainians. Why start this debate in this thread?!
I was banned 2 times derailing thins thread trying to get idiots to actually read up on what they are talking about. Usually they just call all Ukrainians fascist because they've been brainwashed by Russian TV to do so.
Well carry on, I don't have a dog to fight on the Ukranian fascist side, as my knowledge there is limited.
Resident_UA
Member
Why keep calling Ukraine fascist? What country are you from? I'm just trying to understand your thinking. (Obviously "fascist" thing really pisses me off)
Nikodemos
Member
Nah, they were just trying to set up some juicy blackmail/scandal material.
I'm not calling Ukraine fascist. I just said I have no idea if they are or not. I think we both got our wires crossed.
Edit: In your original reply to Jim_Dini I didn't realise you took issue with fascist.
Resident_UA
Member
That's the way Russia managed to start the conflict in Ukraine. They basically demonized 2 sides. There was little evidence that would suggest that this was actually the case. There was one nationalistic party that got 10% during last elections and one mostly Russian speaking group (called Right Sector) that had very few members that liked Nazi symbols (I would assume skinheads). They were very tiny part of the Maidan movement, but that was all that Russian TV showed. As a result people in the East freaked out.
Phantast2k
Member
Also parliament elections took place in Ukraine today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40ssYZCzgog
Exit polls point towards victory for pro-Western parties in Ukraine
Right Sector apparently at 3% (not getting into the parliament).
Far right Svoboda at 6% - so Ukraine is basically on a Western European level as far as far right parties go and thus Ukraine telling Russians to SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT FASCISTS.
And this is without the occupied (allegedly pro-Russian) territory, which should see right parties be through the roof in the NAZI JUNTA LAND...
Apparently people in those territories would like to vote to, but alas..
For one, OSCE mission speaker: We have not seen any evidence of the use of cluster bombs in Donbas'
(also that Ukraine's newly created, impossible to pronounce, BBC / PBS equivalent finally offering Eng. content: Hromadske International
And then, in a new HRW report:
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/23/dispatches-memo-russia-ukraine-cluster-munitions
Oh, ok then, so next time stfu unless you can confirm something independently. Which this shitty report wasn't since they were showed around by Russian occupiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixf1LEzh1fo
Also both sides don't quite have the same armament, as seen here:
Exclusive: Charred tanks in Ukraine point to Russian involvement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40ssYZCzgog
Exit polls point towards victory for pro-Western parties in Ukraine
Right Sector apparently at 3% (not getting into the parliament).
Far right Svoboda at 6% - so Ukraine is basically on a Western European level as far as far right parties go and thus Ukraine telling Russians to SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT FASCISTS.
And this is without the occupied (allegedly pro-Russian) territory, which should see right parties be through the roof in the NAZI JUNTA LAND...
Apparently people in those territories would like to vote to, but alas..
https://twitter.com/Oksana_Pooley/status/526279890161905665
So that's far from confirmed.
For one, OSCE mission speaker: We have not seen any evidence of the use of cluster bombs in Donbas'
(also that Ukraine's newly created, impossible to pronounce, BBC / PBS equivalent finally offering Eng. content: Hromadske International
And then, in a new HRW report:
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/23/dispatches-memo-russia-ukraine-cluster-munitions
Oh, ok then, so next time stfu unless you can confirm something independently. Which this shitty report wasn't since they were showed around by Russian occupiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixf1LEzh1fo
Also both sides don't quite have the same armament, as seen here:
Exclusive: Charred tanks in Ukraine point to Russian involvement
EricTheCleric
Member
actually Ukraine is now slightly below Western Europe levels
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Where's empty vessel to tell us about the secret Nazi parties that rigged the election against themselves and how, no matter what results occur, the Ukraine is clearly a Nazi lapdog to the United States.
I need to somehow make sense of the fact that Putin's excuse for invading a country was total bullshit.
I need to somehow make sense of the fact that Putin's excuse for invading a country was total bullshit.
EricTheCleric
Member
archnemesis
Member
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
The rebel areas now look on track to become another Transnistria.
Separatists: Bodies of 286 Women Discovered raped and shot in head which were missing in Krasnoarmeisk where Ukrainian forces Dnepr-1 battalion was based (http://en.ria.ru).
I'm sure that Ukrainian officials is gonna deny it and say that it was actually done by Putin and US will confirm it. But whoever is responsible for it, this war is just so sick.
I'm sure that Ukrainian officials is gonna deny it and say that it was actually done by Putin and US will confirm it. But whoever is responsible for it, this war is just so sick.
Don't worry - they were just making stuff up - http://lifenews.ru/news/144014
lifenews - through google translate said:
I was going to say, a battalion of the ukrainian army probably didn't rape and murder 300 women before throwing them in mass graves, but it looks like it has been debunked already.
I think you should consider a little bit more carefully the things you choose to believe and especially post in this thread, Outcome.
So I do. It was posted on RIA Novosti which is serious reliable source. I guess they got screwed up by some other source. Also, these news were on the top page of newsru.com at the time of posting which is a US based opposition site (posting on russian lang.). If there is something bad to say about russia then it will be top page on that site for sure. So, the thing that these news were on top page of anti-putin newsru.com really made them look real. I hope they aren't.
Neither RIA Novosti nor (ITAR-)TASS can be considered to be "reliable" or "serious" any longer. The first casualty of war is always the truth, but in Russia's case, they've now lost whatever semblance of independence their two main press agencies had.
Both are clearly towing the Kremlin line, especially on Ukraine, and are not above repeating rumours or outright falsehoods. I'm not sure why you would assume they were misled.
The gap between what Russia believes and what the rest of the world does is growing continuously.
Resident_UA
Member
This remind me of 3 year old boy "Crucifixion" story where Russian media claimed that Ukrainian army crucified 3 year old boy. Regardless who is reporting this, why would you believe that?! Doesn't it sound just a bit ridiculous? How can you trust Russian news after this?
Nikodemos
Member
What? LOLNO. They were subjected to a Stalinist-level purge, last year around the same time, IIRC. So were Kommersant and (ITAR-)TASS.
I do not trust them for 100%. But, for example, when they show a footage of mass graves it is kinda convincing. Not 100% of cause. There is always a chance that everything is a set up.
In this particular information the Russian news said about newly found mass grave, then they said that this information was disproved. I do not think that there is something particularly evil about it. This is news. This is a job. People earn money because we read it. So they did this double posting (rumor then disproving). It is just happened on the site on which I've never met such a dodge, that's it. I'm not sure, that your CNN or BBC never say rumors. If they never do - lucky you are. Russian press says a lot of rumors.
Resident_UA
Member
Last time they showed mass graves it was footage from Chechnya 15 years ago and the body bags were from the Malaysia airliner. Doesn't it sound a bit ridiculous that mostly Russian speaking Ukrainian army would be executing people because they speak Russian?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/31/us-ukraine-crisis-gas-idUSKBN0II0XQ20141031
Ukraine and Russia make a deal to supply gas to Ukraine in the short term at least.
Ukraine and Russia make a deal to supply gas to Ukraine in the short term at least.
Yay, actual news!
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Watch Russia cut the supplies after the advance payment anyway. Sounds to me like they would want Ukraine to be in a more precarious position before cutting the supplies, so they strike a deal to reduce fears, then cut it at the worst time to do the most damage and get the upper hand on following negotiations.
They will at least threaten to cut the supplies again and again to bear-hug Ukraine in the following months.
They will at least threaten to cut the supplies again and again to bear-hug Ukraine in the following months.
Nikodemos
Member
I can see this happening, since it's Putin we're talking about. Man's a really sore loser.
They can't as its prepaid and guaranteed by the EU. They try it and they will get the fuckery sued out of them in international courts. Also the companies involved are desperate for the money, really, really desperate. Oil is going to drop to 70 dollars a barrel soon and russias budgets are based on 100 dollars a barrel. They are in a huge pile of economic shit and it isn't going to go away soon due to an oil price war between OPEC and american shale companies (OPEC members are trying to drive the shale companies out of business by making the extraction of Oil unprofitable).
Put simply the russian gas companies need this deal and they need europe to believe that they are good for it otherwise more of europe will open LPG platforms and bypass russian gas. That's the last thing they need.
this
news coming from "allied" countries are propagating us to hate putin
news coming out of russia is saying its the US/USAID NGOS funding these uprisings and looking back at history it seem to make sense but who knows really...
i've pretty much stopped paying attention as the message seems to be about hating one side or the other, no thanks
it's already been shown how lazy and disingenuous the "both sides are equal" argument is. You say it either as an easy conclusion that exempts you from having to think about a situation or you want to sound above it all.
Where has it been shown and by whom? There is every possibility and a high likelihood media located in each country involved in the dispute can be equally bad at reporting things in an unbiased fashion.
No, there is no "high likelihood" that independant media from the west across tens of countries and several continents, that often survive based on their reputation for critical thinking and journalistic integrity in places where there is actual freedom of the press is "equally biased" as russian state media, especially at this time.
The mere suggestion is ridiculous.
Exactly. The thought of western media even coming CLOSE to as low as russian media is just laughable.
Until we start seeing common 300 WOMEN RAPED AND SHOT IN THE HEAD BY RUSSIANS we can reexamine the differences. If the best the Russian media has to offer is new stories debunked within hours...........
Phantast2k
Member
So, even the Svoboda party didn't make it into the Ukrainian parliament (failing to reach the 5% threshold): http://www.cvk.gov.ua/pls/vnd2014/wp300ept001f01=910.html
Wonder what angle the Russian media is taking now..
Source for that: http://www.rferl.org/content/russian-media-propaganda-ukraine-conflict-chechnya/26660126.html
You should read this:
Triumph of the will: Putin's war against Russia's last independent TV channel
If you think this is "Western propaganda", remember that The Guardian disclosed Snowden's files.
Apparently it's complete bullshit made up by Russian news agencies without consulting DNR first, lol:
https://translate.google.de/transla...strelyannykh-zhenshhinakh/&edit-text=&act=url
From DNR's own portal:
Meanwhile in Donetsk:
(edited for clarity, link: https://twitter.com/raging545/status/527947946864951296)raging.me @raging545 · 30. Okt.
#Russia actor Mikhail Porechenkov dressed up as journalist shooting @#Ukraine citizens #Donetsk Airport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTH90-ajNx0 …
They keep attacking the airport despite the "truce" for a good month now. And all they managed to do is to grab the cellar of one of the terminals while sustaining heavy losses. Ukrainians call the soldiers at the airport cyborgs because they held out for so long despite the constant attacks. Here's a photo series on them:
https://www.facebook.com/sergei.loiko/media_set?set=a.10204443800967434.1603841134&type=3
Video of non-combatants who accompanied the army to deliver supplies to the "cyborgs":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvGtfEGg5K0 (they arrive at the airport at around 4:25)
More info on the Donetsk airport: The cease-fire war in Donetsk
And despite the truce, "Donetsk People's Republic Plans to Take Control of Mariupol: DPR Prime Minister": http://en.ria.ru/world/20141030/194...ic-Plans-to-Take-Control-of-Mariupol-DPR.html
I like how the Ru. media found a euphemism for attacking / besieging. "Taking control" seems nonviolent in comparison.
In related news: Apparently the Russian Cossack leader admitted to having shot down MH17 and claims he's in possession of a nuke?
Gtranslate:
https://translate.google.com/transl...2014/10/30_a_6283505.shtml&edit-text=&act=url
Original: http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/2014/10/30_a_6283505.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazeta.ru
Meanwhile "Russia plays nuclear war-games in Barents Region"
http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/11/russia-plays-nuclear-war-games-barents-region-01-11
Incidently the site is run by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Barents_Secretariat which "aims at developing the Norwegian-Russian relations in the north by promoting and funding Norwegian-Russian cooperation projects."
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/two-days-of-russian-aircraft-intercepts/1422/
/Apparently the Ru. army personal doesn't even try to disguise itself in Luhansk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvupDF8xoww&t=10m33s
Veritigo_X
Member
Elections were held in Donetsk and Luhansk over the weekend. Results from today show that Alexander Zakharchenko has won the election in Donetsk (79% of the vote) and Igor Plotnitsky won in Luhansk (no numbers stated).
Russian spokesmen announced that they would respect the results of the election, while the EU officials say that the vote is illegal and will further aggravate the crisis. Today, a spokesperson for Angela Merkel "condemned" Russian support for the election and warned that it could lead to further sanctions.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-29885461
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/03/us-ukraine-crisis-rebel-election-idUSKBN0IL3AP20141103
Russian spokesmen announced that they would respect the results of the election, while the EU officials say that the vote is illegal and will further aggravate the crisis. Today, a spokesperson for Angela Merkel "condemned" Russian support for the election and warned that it could lead to further sanctions.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-29885461
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/03/us-ukraine-crisis-rebel-election-idUSKBN0IL3AP20141103
EricTheCleric
Member
For anyone wondering who the international observers are:
Note that this is not OSCE as was widely reported by Russian media but ASCE, a group invented by Russia for this occassion only. Guess why the name is so similar to OSCE...
https://twitter.com/OSCE/status/528645333195423744
http://www.interpretermag.com/fake-monitors-observe-fake-elections-in-the-donbass/
in context this story is hilarious
Note that this is not OSCE as was widely reported by Russian media but ASCE, a group invented by Russia for this occassion only. Guess why the name is so similar to OSCE...
https://twitter.com/OSCE/status/528645333195423744
http://www.interpretermag.com/fake-monitors-observe-fake-elections-in-the-donbass/
in context this story is hilarious
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