Support NeoGAF

[gofreak]

Those damn delusional Sony fans at SCE :lol .

So it's all or nothing because some Sony execs bigged it up? Really?

With the Elspa figures, I think a lot of people need to sit down and button up. It could quite possibly pass 700-750k before we even hit December (assuming sales past week 1 in the US scale similarly to how they have in Japan). It may not be the biggest game Sony has sales-wise this year, but it's certainly doesn't seem to be bombing.

The problem in this thread is use of the word 'bomb'. It's fair enough to ask why it hasn't sold eleventy-million in its first weeks, why grannys and soccer-moms haven't been queuing for days to pick it up - or at least, there's a factual basis for asking that - but tying that to the word 'bomb' is a bit dumb.

 

[Haunted]

Damn, Kioku is dishing it out today. In other threads, too.

 

[acm2000]

So it's all or nothing because some Sony execs bigged it up? Really?

With the Elspa figures, I think a lot of people need to sit down and button up. It could quite possibly pass 700-750k before we even hit December (assuming sales past week 1 in the US scale similarly to how they have in Japan). It may not be the biggest game Sony has sales-wise this year, but it's certainly doesn't seem to be bombing.

The problem in this thread is use of the word 'bomb'. It's fair enough to ask why it hasn't sold eleventy-million in its first weeks, why grannys and soccer-moms haven't been queuing for days to pick it up - or at least, there's a factual basis for asking that - but tying that to the word 'bomb' is a bit dumb.

you do have to remember tho, that sony fanboys were treating this game like the second coming of christ or something, yet another game thats supposedly gonna take the ps3 sales to first place somehow, past the 360 and the wii.

 

[gofreak]

you do have to remember tho, that sony fanboys were treating this game like the second coming of christ or something, yet another game thats supposedly gonna take the ps3 sales to first place somehow, past the 360 and the wii.

*sigh*

It is the second coming of christ ( ) but I don't really remember "sony fanboys" (who?) en masse saying it was going to put ps3 in first place... Well..I remember SOME people saying it could sell a lot, some lesser number saying it definitely would, and then others saying it would sell like shit, and then others still somewhere in the middle.

And even if some stranger on a message board on the internet thought it was going to sell a gazillion-billion, how the fack does that suddenly set the benchmark for what is or isn't a bomba for LBP any more than those who said it would be a Viva Pinata?

 

[Bluemercury]

Its failing like RE4 failed in the GC.......i wonder why....

 

[Synth_floyd]

It seems like the problem is not that the game sucks, but that they chose a bad game to rev up the hype machine on.

 

[Phife Dawg]

So it's all or nothing because some Sony execs bigged it up? Really?

With the Elspa figures, I think a lot of people need to sit down and button up. It could quite possibly pass 700-750k before we even hit December (assuming sales past week 1 in the US scale similarly to how they have in Japan). It may not be the biggest game Sony has sales-wise this year, but it's certainly doesn't seem to be bombing.

The problem in this thread is use of the word 'bomb'. It's fair enough to ask why it hasn't sold eleventy-million in its first weeks, why grannys and soccer-moms haven't been queuing for days to pick it up - or at least, there's a factual basis for asking that - but tying that to the word 'bomb' is a bit dumb.

All or nothing? The game falls short of the publisher's expectations, of course it's a bomba. If you somehow lose sleep over the use of the word bomba because of some emotional investment, just replace it with "fails to meet publisher's expectations".

I don't know what's so hard about keeping your personal opinion and emotions on the quality of a product out of the process of judging the market reception for said product.

Left 4 Dead is right up my alley for game of the year and I already put a lot more time into it than I should be, simply because it's that good. It'll only get better with the awesome user generated content that will be up for this, yet it's not off to a good start in the UK and I have the gut feeling it won't be a big hit in any other country as well. Even though I consider it a great game I won't have a problem considering this a bomb if it indeed bombs at retail and not try to spin it into some kind of success story: Great sales for: New IP, a game that was released at the wrong time, was postponed too often, was too expensive for a game which focuses on co-op, digital download numbers (which we will never have access to) will make up for it big time etc.

I just checked ******** and lbp is around 800K sales worldwide! I mean, we are speaking of a brand new ip here! thats pretty impressive! sure it could be much higher, but I am sure that the sales will end up high by the end of the year. I also have not bought the game yet, because my friend bought it and I have other bills to pay... but around christmas, this game will be mine!!

:lol

I just checked Amazon charts and extrapolated the positions with the numbers we have and I come up with exactly 486k, yeah that's right it got an additional 1k sales in between my previous posts and this.*

Spoiler

*it's a guessing game

 

[freethought]

I thought LBP had a good chance of selling more than it has, but I'll still be surprised if it's not hovering around the 1 million mark by the end of the year. Saying that, who the fuck wanted this game to fail and why? I'll freely admit I'm pissed at the Tomb Raider stuation (if they did indeed cut the end of the game off to sell as exclusive DLC) and want the sales to reflect this questionable strategy. That's because it sets a very dangerous precedent.

But LBP? It's like the opposite of that. Floaty jumping or not (personally, from the beta I thought the controls were extremely precise and fluid with the exception of the plane switching, and the jumping was definitely a little too floaty) we should all be cheering the game on. We're finally getting something on consoles that rivals the mod community on PC as a way of tapping the creativity of the player base and if you think of yourself as a gamer you should support the idea, whether or not LBP is the game for you.

RK and his ilk need to grow the fuck up. We're all gamers and what happens on one console affects the other. I'd much prefer a future of free UGC to overpriced DLC but if this is the attitude of the average gamer then it's a future of micropayments and abruptly ending retail games for us.

 

[fisheyes]

I just checked Amazon charts and extrapolated the positions with the numbers we have and I come up with exactly 486k, yeah that's right it got an additional 1k sales in between my previous posts and this.*

Spoiler

*it's a guessing game

1k sales in 1:38, not bomba confirmed.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I bet you'd just love to go burn down their houses and kick their dogs too wouldn't you?

Fuck your evil opinion.

Not at all. I wish them no harm and I am quite sure they are wonderful people who take care of their dogs, especially if some asshole were to set said dogs on fire and then kick their house. I don't know them and have nothing against them.
I just think they made a piece of shit game and should go on a soul search to see where they can really fit into this complex world.

 

[Orin GA]

Its failing like RE4 failed in the GC.......i wonder why....

:lol

 

[HocusPocus]

I'm sure the game will do just fine long term. I do get a kick out of seeing people say that just 200,000 is a good start for a highly anticipated system seller game. Since when is that ok on this board? It wasn't ok for Rare's launch games on 360 which did in fact go on to sell over a million worldwide.

This game will do well and attract new gamers to the platform no doubt. Sony however didn't do it any favors releasing it as is. I can tell you this. If they had marketed this thing better, and attracted companies like Disney to develop some levels AT LAUNCH then you would be seeing a more attractive product this year. I have absolutely no interest in this game. However, I see the appeal. It could have been that million launch game that everyone was hyping it up as if they had fully realized the potential of what they had, and got the right people on board to get the casuals.

 

[gofreak]

All or nothing? The game falls short of the publisher's expectations, of course it's a bomba.

So if a game sells 3m instead of 4m expected, it's a bomba?

And why don't we look at shipments vs statements by head of software development in press interviews? It's naive to take the latter as entirely accurate reflection of internal expectations, more than PR posturing (besides which, in the context of the interview it wasn't clear he was talking purely about sales as much as the effort Sony would be putting behind it in all territories). Did Sony ship more of this game than they have or will for any other this year? I sort of doubt that. That would be the better guide to their actual expectations.

I still don't agree, though, that a game has failed on the market if it falls short of high expectations, yet still does well.

 

[wolfmat]

So if a game sells 3m instead of 4m expected, it's a bomba?

If you only sell 75% of your copies, that's not good. It's not a bomba, but it's quite undesirable.

Bomba is more like 20% or less.

 

[Fallout-NL]

The core gameplay isn't actually all that fun, despite it's amazing creative elements.

That sums it up perfectly.

 

[Loudninja]

That sums it up perfectly.

No it really does not.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

I think from what we have seen the game has not resonated with the public as was expected, in that respect it is a "bomba" so far imo (I'd point the finger at the marketing department)

If it turns up with 300k sales + in November then i'll take that back, my hunch sadly though that it that it will do 150k ish which in the holiday period would be pretty poor. When I see it on Amazon.co.uk for £25 i know there is a problem.

Also I don't think dumping the game in pack ins next year in order to get to the 1m+ figure will somehow mean the game didn't bomb either, no one would argue that Viva Pinata didn't bomb but it reached over 1m eventually.

 

[Private Hoffman]

All or nothing? The game falls short of the publisher's expectations, of course it's a bomba. If you somehow lose sleep over the use of the word bomba because of some emotional investment, just replace it with "fails to meet publisher's expectations".

Isn't it a bit premature to call that since the holiday season isn't even over yet?

 

[gofreak]

Also I don't think dumping the game in pack ins next year in order to get to the 1m+ figure will somehow mean the game didn't bomb either, no one would argue that Viva Pinata didn't bomb but it reached over 1m eventually.

That'll hardly be necessary.

It if does 100k in NA in Nov, it'll be over 300k there. Assuming similar performance in Europe - which seems sound, if not perhaps conservative, looking at the Elspa sales awards for Nov - then it'd be around or over 700k by the end of November globally. Breaking a million could be even possible within the year.

VP did 500k in its first 12 months, supposedly. LBP probably did the same in its first couple of weeks. They're entirely different kettles of fish. VP did gain a good cult following relative to its initial performance, breaking a million eventually as you say. If LBP did the same, scaled up to its own initial performance, then it would see pretty great success in its lifetime.

 

[ChryZ]

I just think they made a piece of shit game and should go on a soul search to see where they can really fit into this complex world.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I have no opinion on LittleBigPlanet or the PS3 or the price of fish, but I want to congratulate RevenantKioku on an absolutely splendid performance.

Its the petty hammering of this type of dry vitriol which I've so enjoyed deploying in the past with Haze and Gears of War.

Its the same that hollows out my existence to its fundamental, repetitive amino-based tasks and a thin veneer of intellectual curiosity. RevenantKioku, I hope that you, like me, choose more messageboard trolling over violent suicide, as I have done. Salut, brother.

 

[antiloop]

NVM.

Edit: My ignore list is broken. ;D

 

[SuperDowns]

That sums it up perfectly.

Not even close to being right.

Trust me on this game being not a bomb. Unlike most singularity experiences like GOW2, Fallout 3, Fable 2, Dead Space, etc this is a title that will have legs into the coming months with more sustained sales.

But will it get lost in the shuffle at the moment? Probably. Give it time and hope that Sony markets the hell out of it in Jan - March.

 

[lowrider007]

Where on earth have all these LBP haters come from ?, they weren't here before the game was released ?, they weren't here during the beta ?, but now there here becuase the the game hasn't sold 10million copies in a month <rolleyes>, this whole thread is just a blatant excuse for xbots and the like to jump in and try and put down a game that has been critically acclaimed.

People coming out with pathetic statements like "the reason I think the game is a failure is becuase of the floaty controls" <sigh>, or "oh the game has failed becuase it doesn't fit into causal or hardcore gaming", wtf are you people talking about seriously ?, The game has not failed, it just hasn't sold as well as many internet nerds expected it to of, that doesn't make the game a failure, but rather just an excuse for sad xbox fanboy's to try to rub sand in peoples eyes because it some how makes them feel better putting down a game that many Sony ps3 users enjoy playing,

God knows why they do this, I can only imagine they believe by doing this it somehow makes them feel better about their allegiance to Microsoft or some weird psychological shit along those lines, I really don't know tbh, why are you people so desperate to prove that game is a failure before it's barely even had a chance to run ?

 

[Kujo]

Japan - 72k+ (3 weeks)
UK - 100k-200k (3 weeks)
USA - 215k+ (5 days)

Easily over half a million worldwide by now. Looking at the definitions:

Sales bomb - Fails to make a profit.
Disappointment - Fails to meet expectations.

Possibly the 2nd category, definitely not the 1st. Now Motorstorm: PR, there's a bomba...

 

[Phife Dawg]

So if a game sells 3m instead of 4m expected, it's a bomba?

And why don't we look at shipments vs statements by head of software development in press interviews? It's naive to take the latter as entirely accurate reflection of internal expectations, more than PR posturing (besides which, in the context of the interview it wasn't clear he was talking purely about sales as much as the effort Sony would be putting behind it in all territories). Did Sony ship more of this game than they have or will for any other this year? I sort of doubt that. That would be the better guide to their actual expectations.

I still don't agree, though, that a game has failed on the market if it falls short of high expectations, yet still does well.

In all probability it'll not be Sony's biggest game this year in any market. For the UK this is already decided, for Japan as well, unless WKC bombs to hell and back. And it's not a system seller at all.

Shipments are dependent on retailers.

And who decides what is doing well if not the publisher? You? Me? The publisher expected this title to be huge, and a system seller. Sony fuelled the hype machine to the maximum and at least here in Germany has an ad campaign that rivals these expectations. What is doing "well" in regards to these efforts? Plus, we're not looking at missing a target by a bit but missing it considerably, why would it not be failure?

Too Human for instance is a failure too. You could argue that it did "well", if you compare it to some small game release. It did open with over 160k copies sold, which would be huge for some titles, just not for a game like that. Same applies to LBP. If SMG for instance would've sold 1.5m worldwide LTD I would've deemed it a bomba too, although it would've been unbelievable sales for smaller games.

Isn't it a bit premature to call that since the holiday season isn't even over yet?

Like I already said, it won't hit target in Japan unless WKC does god-awful, won't hit target in the UK since GT5 is way, way, way too far ahead and R2 will probably blast right past too (although there is the possibility this won't do as well as R1 did, for reasons I also already stated). The possibility for it to be the biggest game this year for Sony as a publisher is still there in the US, but again as I said before, I expect that to not happen due to R2. On a second thought, LBP could also have problems overtaking GT5 in the US. It debuted at around 250k if I'm not mistaking, did we have any updates on its performance?

And then you still have the expectations of LBP being a system seller.

 

[freethought]

Japan - 72k+ (3 weeks)
UK - 100k-200k (3 weeks)
USA - 215k+ (5 days)

Easily over half a million worldwide by now. Looking at the definitions:

Sales bomb - Fails to make a profit.
Disappointment - Fails to meet expectations.

Possibly the 2nd category, definitely not the 1st. Now Motorstorm: PR, there's a bomba...

Really? That's a shame, the first was a ton of fun and sold quite well as I recall. Oh well, I'll still pick it up and judging from the official thread there's bound to be a few gaffers to play with online.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

To me, LBP is a game that would be ideal for Wii HD but for the hardcore PS3 users who don't typically have a large pool of friends who own PS3's and are interested in a game that, to some degree, requires a lot of time and commitment, I just think it fails to connect. Which is a shame.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I just checked ******** and lbp is around 800K sales worldwide! I mean, we are speaking of a brand new ip here! thats pretty impressive! sure it could be much higher, but I am sure that the sales will end up high by the end of the year. I also have not bought the game yet, because my friend bought it and I have other bills to pay... but around christmas, this game will be mine!!

I asked my pet cockroach and it says that NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams has sold 4 million copies! Awesome!

 

[Psychotext]

I asked my pet cockroach and it says that NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams has sold 4 million copies! Awesome!

Can you ask him (her?) for some numbers on Valkyria Chronicles please?

 

[GodofWine]

Now Motorstorm: PR, there's a bomba...

That would be a shame..^^^this is such a good game that would seem to fit the PS3 user base perfectly.

Regarding it and LBP, and any other game on any platform released within 60 days of Xmas during an economic crises needs to be judged after the holidays to see what really happened with it.

 

[namor7]

I think part of the problem is that the game looks complex/confusing to people, no matter what they see of it. Look at this stuff:

Also, the very in-your-face cuteness gets to be a bit much for me, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one. There's obviously something about the game that didn't speak/isn't speaking to the masses, and I think these things are part of it.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

This game should be downloadable from PSN for $39.99

 

[freethought]

I asked my pet cockroach and it says that NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams has sold 4 million copies! Awesome!

:lol You've been on a roll lately Segata.

edit: Why does your tag take me to a youtube clip of the Blackadder?

 

[Windu]

because the mass market does not own a PS3.

 

[hoos30]

As a raging Xbox fanboy, I would cry real tears if this game were to fail. I'd much rather MS compete with Sony in this high-end creative space than turn all their energy towards chasing Nintendo into the casual-gamer ghetto.

 

[AKS]

Why? Inadequate marketing, a consistent weakness of Sony. I haven't seen a single TV ad for LBP yet. They are primarily advertizing it to people who would have bought it anyway.

 

[yellowjacket]

The game is doing fine. What was it supposed to sell so that gaf would consider it a success? Did people really expect the second coming of Grand Theft Auto or something?

 

[gkryhewy]

I think part of the problem is that the game looks complex/confusing to people, no matter what they see of it. Look at this stuff:

Dear god, that's just horrible. Looks like a Wal-Mart floor on Black Friday evening.

 

[gofreak]

And who decides what is doing well if not the publisher? You? Me?

Well it seems like we're the ones arguing about it

Maybe we should ask Sony then..or moreover, perhaps, even MM.

By all means, consider it a failure if you wish. I just think it's a very simplistic way of looking at things - that anything less than achieving the most optimistic of expectations (be they publisher/player/fanboy/whatever) is 'failure'. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[gkryhewy]

By all means, consider it a failure if you wish. I just think it's a very simplistic way of looking at things - that anything less than achieving the most optimistic of expectations (be they publisher/player/fanboy/whatever) is 'failure'. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Shareholders determine what's a failure. Did Sony provide sales forecasts for LBP in their most recent quarterly report?

 

[DCharlie]

Sales bomb - Fails to make a profit.
Disappointment - Fails to meet expectations.

Possibly the 2nd category, definitely not the 1st. Now Motorstorm: PR, there's a bomba...

errrm - i might not be a massive business expert but if you factor in the Ad campaign etc do you REALLY want to start invoking the profit line?

i've NO IDEA what the bottom line is, but if you are going to start talking about something bombing if it fails to make a profit, then you open the PS3 as a hardware platform up to the "it's BIGGO BOMBA" attacks.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

I think LBP is a shitty product and it deserves nothing.

"PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them"

Anyway, the problem is Sony don't know what to do with a game like this. They need nintendo to guide them through it...

 

[DCharlie]

I think LBP is a shitty product and it deserves nothing.

wait.... aren't you pimping that new SE game elsewhere?

didn't you say it was GOTS at TGS08?

I'm hardly the Sony defender, but you are smoking hot rocks if LBP is a shitty product.

either that or you only play nuggest of gold shat out of the game gods themselves

 

[gofreak]

Shareholders determine what's a failure. Did Sony provide sales forecasts for LBP in their most recent quarterly report?

I don't think so..do they normally do that kind of thing?

 

[gkryhewy]

I don't think so..do they normally do that kind of thing?

I don't know if Sony does, but many companies do - it's where the infamous CRAZY Namco forecast numbers came from. Typically there are fairly detailed revenue forecasts that can be used to extrapolate at least.

 

[DCharlie]

do they normally do that kind of thing?

not usually, no.
unless i'm missing something.

they may make mention of "new titles such as <title> which is expect to <word akin to DRIVE / INCREASE / ENCOURAGE / etc> this coming quarter"

for reasons such as measurability, it's always wise in the PR world to avoid specifics or self defeating rules like "disappointment if we don't sell <figure>"

it simply isn't worth it - modern PR figured this out years ago, they aren't going to put hard figures into predictive financial reports either.

edit : yeahhhhh, and then there is Namco. "Mojipitan on the ZX81? 14 BILLION COPIES!"

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Personally I think the sackboys are about as appealing as a sack of rotten oranges. No really they for the most part look hideous and even scary. I'm most likely alone on this but there you go.

Oh and while I'm all Rah-Rah about games including create-a-whatever for the most part I completely ignore them when I actually get the game. In fact the last time I built a level was for Duke Nukem 3D.

 

[Kujo]

i've NO IDEA what the bottom line is, but if you are going to start talking about something bombing if it fails to make a profit, then you open the PS3 as a hardware platform up to the "it's BIGGO BOMBA" attacks.

Sure go ahead, PS3 is not a success so far. But right now I'm just talking about LBP, and with marketing, the game is still going to make a profit.

 

[fanduck]

I think the moral of this entire thread should just be this: PS3 is in trouble this holiday!