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[Mengy]

Just like the majority of other games we play. Not the end of the world.

Except for final fantasy 14 and dota 2, not the games I play.

Yeah, I typically don't buy online only games either unless they are from Blizzard. In fact I can't think of one online only game I own that isn't a Blizzard game, Elite Dangerous would be the first.

Is the data wipe on the 22nd a full wipe, or just a lump sum credit dump?
Because if it's the former, I'll just use my 2 mil so far and outkit a cobra and kill kill kill.

Full wipe, but the last one. After the 22nd everything you earn you keep. That is of course unless Frontier is lying again, lol.

 

[Vodh]

Well, I pulled the trigger, here comes my Crazy November 2014 game~!

 

[CTLance]

I am not happy about the no-offline thing, that's for sure. Dammit. It's not so much that I absolutely need it to be offline, but they essentially lied about this, and it's a pretty damn big feature that severely impacts the longevity of the game.

Also really not feeling the beta bait benefits. That is a significant advantage players are getting there, chopping off a quarter of the insurance cost. And I'm saying that as a beta tier backer.
I kind of had ED backed to offset SC, it's annoying to see my "safe bet" happily join the (possible) "bad boy" at the money trough. Oh well. I'm not rioting in the streets or anything, but I shall raise my fist in the vague direction of the UK tonight and release a defiant burp.

 

[Mengy]

I am not happy about the no-offline thing, that's for sure. Dammit. It's not so much that I absolutely need it to be offline, but they essentially lied about this, and it's a pretty damn big feature that severely impacts the longevity of the game.

The thread about this on the Elite forums is over 150 pages long in less than 24 hours, many people are seeking refunds:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58789

What gets me is that they outright have been lying to the community. Up until a week ago forum moderators were still telling people that yes the offline mode is coming. And this link here shows many responses from both David Braben and Michael Brookes stating that the game will have an offline mode:

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=8fa4...17&ithint=folder,png&authkey=!AB8ihXyry1B55fw

Some news sites are starting to report on it, I imagine more will post about it come Monday:

http://vrfocus.com/archives/8781/elite-dangerous-offline-mode-dropped-hit-community-backlash/


Man, I really want this game to sell like gangbusters too. I still love the old Elite games, they are some of my favorite games of all time. This has just been handled real shitty by Frontier Development. Part of me wants to buy it just to support them, yet part of me does not want to support such disrespectful PR practices. And part of me is afraid of what other promises they may break down the road.

 

[la_briola]

I always thought "Solo" was just a different wording for "I hate PVP, please leave me alone!".
Never even thought about a real offline mode.

 

[Jedi2016]

I never cared. My PC is never offline in any event.

 

[d1rtn4p]

Wow, I had not been following this game but was very excited for the release. I had no idea it was so tied in with online. Why? The other elite games were single player games...Crap crap crap.

 

[Zaptruder]

I am not happy about the no-offline thing, that's for sure. Dammit. It's not so much that I absolutely need it to be offline, but they essentially lied about this, and it's a pretty damn big feature that severely impacts the longevity of the game.

Also really not feeling the beta bait benefits. That is a significant advantage players are getting there, chopping off a quarter of the insurance cost. And I'm saying that as a beta tier backer.
I kind of had ED backed to offset SC, it's annoying to see my "safe bet" happily join the (possible) "bad boy" at the money trough. Oh well. I'm not rioting in the streets or anything, but I shall raise my fist in the vague direction of the UK tonight and release a defiant burp.

Well... Alpha backers already have a 50% lifetime discount on ship insurance, so there's that.... as a precedent.

 

[Seth Enosh]

No offline also means no modding or cheats. Future content will have to be DLC only and can't be created by the community since we're locked to their official server for all in-game transactions and activity.

It sounds like this game may have a lot of grinding (since they're selling 50% / 25% off in game items as a Alpha or Beta benefit) so it would have been nice to have the option to use a save file editor to try out end game content. I'm planning on getting this along with the Rift CV1 but don't know how much total time I'll end up sinking into the game, so would have appreciated the ability to mess around in an offline mode.

I really don't like this trend to make solo games always-online but I'll probably buy it next year anyway because it seems like this is going to be a really good showcase for the Rift.

 

[Santar]

The fact that the game suddenly won't have offline support is incredibly disappointing news to me as I don't play online only games.
I) find it very unprofessional of the developer to go back on their word like this.
They even stated the game would support offline on their kickstarter page.
I hope the bigger sites like, IGN, Kotaku, gamespot and giantbomb gets wind of this.

 

[Wreav]

Wow, I had not been following this game but was very excited for the release. I had no idea it was so tied in with online. Why? The other elite games were single player games...Crap crap crap.

People still comparing a game from 1984 to 2014. Stahp.

No kidding the original Elite had offline gameplay.

I really don't like this trend to make solo games always-online

This isn't a solo game. 3/4ths of the game modes will be online. People that will be playing this game solo AND offline are an extreme minority, yet unfortunately vocal.

 

[Santar]

People still comparing a game from 1984 to 2014. Stahp.

N
This isn't a solo game. 3/4ths of the game modes will be online. People that will be playing this game solo AND offline are an extreme minority, yet unfortunately vocal.

So people who are disappointed should just shut up?
My what a great attitude to have.

 

[Mengy]

People still comparing a game from 1984 to 2014. Stahp.

No kidding the original Elite had offline gameplay.



This isn't a solo game. 3/4ths of the game modes will be online. People that will be playing this game solo AND offline are an extreme minority, yet unfortunately vocal.

I don't think you know what you are talking about. The main issue is what happens when the servers get shut down? And will that be in two years? Five? Ten? If the game sells poorly will it be sooner? Until now fans were confident that no matter what happened to Frontier Development the game they purchased could be played forever, just like the original games. It was one of the main features touted during the kickstarter and over the past year, it's one of the main reasons it got funded at all, and now it's suddenly not a feature.

And you are wrong, not 3/4ths of the game modes will be online, ALL of the game modes are now online. There isn't any offline component to the game, it is online only as of yesterday. And judging by the size of that thread on the main forums, this is not a vocal minority.

 

[Wreav]

And you are wrong, not 3/4ths of the game modes will be online, ALL of the game modes are now online.

When I say online, I mean in a PVP sense. This game was never created to be a solo offline game. I agree it's shitty that they've publicly said this mode would exist, but again, the people speaking up are a vast minority to FD. I'd say they should offer refunds, but no one should ever EVER buy into a kickstarter or early access and expect a refund. Ever. The core of what ED is has not changed at ALL with this announcement.

Given that the majority of game modes are PVP, I'm heavily in favor of any system that limits hacking, which this will.

If offline is that important to you, then this game is not for you I suppose. I very much doubt they change direction now this late in the game, because the architecture to support always online is usually deeply engrained in the codebase.

 

[Wreav]

And not to totally derail this thread, but as usual, there are only a few VERY loud people posting over and over in that official thread. You can't judge the will of the entire demographic based on a thread's page count.

 

[CambriaRising]

I don't think you know what you are talking about. The main issue is what happens when the servers get shut down? And will that be in two years? Five? Ten? If the game sells poorly will it be sooner? Until now fans were confident that no matter what happened to Frontier Development the game they purchased could be played forever, just like the original games. It was one of the main features touted during the kickstarter and over the past year, it's one of the main reasons it got funded at all, and now it's suddenly not a feature.

I think this is a very real possibility, this game is going to have zero penetration and not being on steam is boneheaded at best, and suicide at worst.

 

[DrBo42]

I think this is a very real possibility, this game is going to have zero penetration and not being on steam is boneheaded at best, and suicide at worst.

The only chance it really has without Steam is word of mouth. If they can't get features like Alliances to facilitate CO-OP & activities to go with it, they're not going to be seeing a whole lot of money at launch.

No Steam is a beyond dense decision but launching with private group as the only barebones means of consistently seeing your friends in the world, is bonkers.

 

[Lord Panda]

Easiest fix is to give the folks bothered by this their refunds if requested.

It's not the difficult.

And just because the folks who are complaining are the minority doesn't mean their issues are any less valid.

 

[Seth Enosh]

This isn't a solo game. 3/4ths of the game modes will be online. People that will be playing this game solo AND offline are an extreme minority, yet unfortunately vocal.

The current beta has a "solo" online mode without any player to player interaction, correct? So I don't see how it couldn't have been built to provide an offline mode from the beginning, as promised to the kickstarter backers and preordering customers up until last week. One of the kickstarter reward tiers was a DRM-free copy of the game, always online is not DRM-free.

Also, doesn't this have a full galaxy with a billion star systems? If you fly away from the starting systems for a while it will become extremely rare to run into players even in the non-solo game variant.

That said, now that they have revealed the game is essentially built as online only, I don't expect them to change that. Look at diablo 3 and Sim city for examples. It took a year to build offline back into the new Sim City, and diablo 3 on PC is still always-online even though they added offline play into the console editions.

I'm not too unhappy about this since I didn't back the game and was planning to wait until Rift CV1 before buying, but this is sad news for those with spotty/dialup internet connections who wanted to play the game, or for modding.

 

[Wreav]

Servers are used for galactic calculations, as well as the dynamic economies and events living there. They won't just rip that out of the cloud because 4 people posted on their forum 100+ times.

Everyone who backed this game needs to remember what they've said from day one: This game is being made by FD for FD. Not for you. That being said, they have shown some give on certain game elements so far, and we MIGHT see some wiggle here. I just doubt it's a "flip of the switch". Major recoding would have to be done.

 

[Seth Enosh]

Servers are used for galactic calculations, as well as the dynamic economies and events living there. They won't just rip that out of the cloud because 4 people posted on their forum 100+ times.

Everyone who backed this game needs to remember what they've said from day one: This game is being made by FD for FD. Not for you. That being said, they have shown some give on certain game elements so far, and we MIGHT see some wiggle here. I just doubt it's a "flip of the switch". Major recoding would have to be done.

I agree, it wouldn't be just a "flip of the switch" at this point. They should just apologize and clearly offer refunds for anyone who's unhappy.

I think that's why the forum thread is really blowing up. The kickstarter originally focused on the game as online, but was then updated to say offline would be present in response to requests from potential backers. Then they suddenly announce dropping it, only a month before release, and in an offhand comment in the newsletter without an apology to disappointed backers. Better communication would have gone a long way here, especially for a kickstarted game where people may be putting in huge sums of money in advance. Some of the angry backers in that thread pledged at high tiers.

 

[Mengy]

I agree, it wouldn't be just a "flip of the switch" at this point.

Nope, Michael Brookes has said the game was designed as online only pretty much from the beginning, and that they tabled the offline mode a very long time ago. Essentially the game was built completely as online only, and making an offline version now would take a very heavy rewrite of lots of code. It's a done deal, and I doubt there will ever be an offline Elite Dangerous.




Either way, I'm not buying the Mercenary Edition now, I'm waiting until after December 16th before buying to see if the online holds up or if we get another Simcity 2013 instead. Plus I want to see if anything else major changes before release, for better or for worse.

 

[Teknopathetic]

The funny thing about Steam is that there were threads asking if Frontier would release on Steam and a number of posters showed themselves to be completely out of touch and were adamant that the game not get released on Steam because ??????

Some of them even thought launching on Steam would mean they were somehow tied to Steam's servers ("What if Valve shuts down some day, I wouldn't be able to play the game that I purchased completely outside of Steam that doesn't rely on Steam servers whatsoever"). Completely baffling, some of the posters there.

 

[Wreav]

I have to think they'll end up on Steam eventually, just like Kerbal. They're probably hesitant to just fork over that 30% right off the bat.

 

[LeBart]

Servers are used for galactic calculations, as well as the dynamic economies and events living there. They won't just rip that out of the cloud because 4 people posted on their forum 100+ times.

Everyone who backed this game needs to remember what they've said from day one: This game is being made by FD for FD. Not for you. That being said, they have shown some give on certain game elements so far, and we MIGHT see some wiggle here. I just doubt it's a "flip of the switch". Major recoding would have to be done.

How hard is it to write a paragraph saying "hey, sorry but we have to cut the offline mode and here's why blablabla" in a newsletter? Not because you owe anything to your customers, but because it prevents a bigger backlash like the one happening right now.

They spent at least a year reading comments about the offline mode (it was regularly mentioned on the forums, on reddit and I think here as well), they knew more people bought the game every week thinking they would be able to play offline, and yet they chose to not say a fucking thing. I'm just saying... that was maybe not super classy on their part.

 

[epmode]

The funny thing about Steam is that there were threads asking if Frontier would release on Steam and a number of posters showed themselves to be completely out of touch and were adamant that the game not get released on Steam because ??????

Some of them even thought launching on Steam would mean they were somehow tied to Steam's servers ("What if Valve shuts down some day, I wouldn't be able to play the game that I purchased completely outside of Steam that doesn't rely on Steam servers whatsoever"). Completely baffling, some of the posters there.

Now we have something even better! A game whose continued existence is tied to a company far less stable than Valve!

Speaking as a backer that was not interested in offline mode except to ensure the game will always exist, this is pretty shit. The way they broke the news is even worse. Frontier has to back down or provide refunds, simple as that.

 

[d1rtn4p]

People still comparing a game from 1984 to 2014. Stahp.

No kidding the original Elite had offline gameplay.



This isn't a solo game. 3/4ths of the game modes will be online. People that will be playing this game solo AND offline are an extreme minority, yet unfortunately vocal.

You don't know what you're talking about. So I shouldn't compare wasteland 2 to wasteland? Or Fallout 3 to Fallout? Because it's 2014 doesn't imply a game should be online only. Once again, that's just crap.

 

[Ogimachi]

Just sent the ticket requesting a refund. At least I've learned my lesson, I guess. Clang and its failure, "Torment" and it's turn-based/rtwp scam, PoE with no combat xp/attribute points, and now this. Never again.

Clang guys still managed to give me my money back. I hope Frontier will be half as honest and do the same.

 

[epmode]

"Torment" and it's turn-based/rtwp scam, PoE with no combat xp/attribute points

Neither of these are anywhere near Elite on the bullshit meter. They don't directly contradict developer comments during the campaign for one. And the lack of combat XP in Eternity is absolutely the superior option in a game that encourages multiple solutions to an objective.

The Torment thing can go either way bu again, the devs were very clear that the decision on combat style hadn't been made. Very unlike the Elite situation.

 

[Wreav]

Just sent the ticket requesting a refund. At least I've learned my lesson, I guess. Clang and its failure, "Torment" and it's turn-based/rtwp scam, PoE with no combat xp/attribute points, and now this. Never again.

Clang guys still managed to give me my money back. I hope Frontier will be half as honest and do the same.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Ogimachi]

Neither of these are anywhere near Elite on the bullshit meter. They don't directly contradict developer comments during the campaign for one. And the lack of combat XP in Eternity is absolutely the superior option in a game that encourages multiple solutions to an objective.

The Torment thing can go either way bu again, the devs were very clear that the decision on combat style hadn't been made. Very unlike the Elite situation.

You're 100% right. I was just venting my frustration. What really bothered me in PoE was the lack of attribute points after chargen, much more so than no combat XP.

Frontier's bullshit meter literally reached SimCity levels.

"A fully offline experience would be unacceptably limited and static compared to the dynamic, ever unfolding experience we are delivering."

x

”Elite will also work offline but you just won’t get a lot of the features. The whole point is that the world evolves due to the aggregated actions of the players.”

 

[Durante]

PoE with no combat xp/attribute points

What? They never promised combat XP. (Which is hardly an ideal concept in a RPG anyway)

Edit: I'm late.

 

[s_mirage]

This honestly pisses me off. I still occasionally play Frontier: First Encounters, nearly twenty years after its release. Guess that's not going to happen with Elite: Dangerous. Waiting this long before announcing that there will be no offline mode, when Frontier let paying customers believe there would be, is bullshit of the highest order. I'll be interested to see how the claims for refunds go.

 

[Ogimachi]

What? They never promised combat XP. (Which is hardly an ideal concept in a RPG anyway)

Edit: I'm late.

I know, but it's something I come to expect from "IE games". I didn't feel ripped off, so the comparison wasn't fair, but like I said, I was venting my frustration.
Something did feel disingenuous to me, though. They added George Ziets as a stretch goal but, according to the man himself:

"(I haven’t completely lost touch with PoE, but I the last time I actively worked on it was during preproduction.)"

Interestingly enough, he didn't like the lack of combat XP either.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Wow I played the ever loving shit out of Elite on the Spectrum 48k, Commodore 64, Amiga 500 and PC. I was dead chuffed when I saw that Elite was getting kick started but choose not to back it because I wouldn't trust Braben to piss on me if I was on fire.

I nearly caved in when the alpha was £200 (or whatever outlandish price it was) but came to my senses and said to myself "wait till it is officially released". I could live without it being on steam (though I would prefer it to be on steam) but no full off line mode, yeah no thanks. Very very relieved I didn't fork money out for this now.

 

[KePoW]

"Torment" and it's turn-based/rtwp scam, PoE with no combat xp/attribute points, and now this. Never again.

There's nothing wrong with these two examples

 

[Mengy]

Wow I played the ever loving shit out of Elite on the Spectrum 48k, Commodore 64, Amiga 500 and PC. I was dead chuffed when I saw that Elite was getting kick started but choose not to back it because I wouldn't trust Braben to piss on me if I was on fire.

I nearly caved in when the alpha was £200 (or whatever outlandish price it was) but came to my senses and said to myself "wait till it is officially released". I could live without it being on steam (though I would prefer it to be on steam) but no full off line mode, yeah no thanks. Very very relieved I didn't fork money out for this now.

Heya CC, yeah I even still have my 5-1/4" floppy disk with Elite for my C64, although the disk doesn't work anymore. I probably wore it out, lol. I'm glad now that I haven't bought ED either but if the launch goes well and they don't disrespect the fans anymore until then well I'll probably still end up buying it. It is Elite afterall, I grew up with this damn game and I've played every version I could along the way. I might wait for a sale price though...

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Heya CC, yeah I even still have my 5-1/4" floppy disk with Elite for my C64, although the disk doesn't work anymore. I probably wore it out, lol. I'm glad now that I haven't bought ED either but if the launch goes well and they don't disrespect the fans anymore until then well I'll probably still end up buying it. It is Elite afterall, I grew up with this damn game and I've played every version I could along the way. I might wait for a sale price though...

Evening Mengy ;-) Ah rich kid eh, some of us had to slum it and use the C64 dedicated tape player to load our games. Ah those were fun times with that crazy bit of red and clear plastic trying to decipher some alien garbage into more alien garbage just to prove you bought the game. To me an off line mode is a fundamental aspect of a game. If a game cannot be played completely off line I will not touch it.

I wish I could feel as much enthusiasm as you do about the game. But the years and years of Brabens bullshit towards this franchise has soured me. I guess I must wait longer for a true Sequel to Elite instead of this half arsed pretend MMO bullshit.

 

[CTLance]

Well... Alpha backers already have a 50% lifetime discount on ship insurance, so there's that.... as a precedent.

Those rich fucks are insane anyway.

Honestly though, it's annoying, and it destroys any notion of balancing or fairness. Give me 5 and 10 percent rebate, and while it will be a tangible saving, it's still more on the cosmetic side of things. 25 and 50 percent are just way out there.

Oh well. We've got bigger fish to fry now.

 

[BrettWeir]

Those rich fucks are insane anyway.

Honestly though, it's annoying, and it destroys any notion of balancing or fairness. Give me 5 and 10 percent rebate, and while it will be a tangible saving, it's still more on the cosmetic side of things. 25 and 50 percent are just way out there.

Oh well. We've got bigger fish to fry now.

I'll claim ignorance. What is so bad about it? I only ask because I look at SC and LTI, and don't read as much complaining about it. Sure, I'd love to have it, but I pledged when I found out about the game to late and missed the boat. I have zero issue with that.

Isn't this the same? They are rewarding people that put money forward before a complete product and believed in them?

 

[CTLance]

I'll claim ignorance. What is so bad about it? I only ask because I look at SC and LTI, and don't read as much complaining about it. Sure, I'd love to have it, but I pledged when I found out about the game to late and missed the boat. I have zero issue with that.

Isn't this the same? They are rewarding people that put money forward before a complete product and believed in them?

With SC we still have the vague statement by The Roberts that the insurance we get as part of the LTI feature will only have a minor impact on the game, since the "legit" insurance of that level would be rather cheap. He stressed that it would not be a balance breaking amount of credits. Make of that what you will.

Not claiming that the LTI won't cause balance problems, mind you. Due to the vastly different schedules I'm still keeping mum about SC. Elite is close to being released, SC will come whenever. Expect a bit of angry noises from me once SC enters the last stretch with LTI issues and whatnot.


Example: If an Elite alpha player can afford an Anaconda and save ~175k credits on his insurance, then that's quite a bit of moola he can invest in weaponry or freight that an ordinary player cannot hope to match given the same amount of playtime and money.

Worse yet, as ships (and by extension, insurance fees) grow more expensive, a blanket insurance rebate based on percentages will impact the game more strongly as time goes on.

SC has avoided this particular pitfall completely. Sure, a bunch of lucky backers may hit the jackpot and grab a hold of an overpowered hull, but they just need to release a new model with better specs to fix that. LTI will only ever give you the hull you pledged for, not a more modern revision. Eventually, I expect all LTI hulls to underperform due to power creep. At that point, they are able to futz around with insurance rates all they want to balance the game.

Elite can't do shit about their version of LTI. They have given a no-holds-barred indefinite rebate that effectively gimps insurance rates as a means of money flow control. The higher insurance rates go, the more alpha and beta backers benefit, thus giving them a tangible edge. The lower they go, the less money they remove from the game and the more likely the players will engage in unsavoury tactics (kamikaze attacks etc). No easy way out of this particular problem, so they can only keep it in the middle and try to affect the market with other means, such as docking fees, taxes, or inflation.

 

[DrBo42]

The funny thing about Steam is that there were threads asking if Frontier would release on Steam and a number of posters showed themselves to be completely out of touch and were adamant that the game not get released on Steam because ??????

Some of them even thought launching on Steam would mean they were somehow tied to Steam's servers ("What if Valve shuts down some day, I wouldn't be able to play the game that I purchased completely outside of Steam that doesn't rely on Steam servers whatsoever"). Completely baffling, some of the posters there.

I have to think they'll end up on Steam eventually, just like Kerbal. They're probably hesitant to just fork over that 30% right off the bat.

What is it now, 7 million concurrent users at peak hours on Steam? I don't know how anyone can pass up that advertising since most users browse the store at least once a day. If you're on that main page, you're getting sales.

 

[A-V-B]

Wow. They totally backstabbed their SP users. There go all the mods.

Nice job, guys. Super haps I didn't fund you now.

 

[SpyGuy239]

Crap I shouldn't have pre-ordered the final copy of the came before reading the latest updates on this thread. ):

 

[CecilRousso]

That Frontier says this only now, that briefly, and so poorly worded means that they're either:

a) Really really crappy at handling customer relations.
b) Stupid, in the sense that they can't see how poorly handled this is.
c) Intentionally deceitful. They know that this will cause a shitstorm, and waited as long as they could to tell it.

Not any of those options makes me want to be a customer to them.

 

[BrettWeir]

With SC we still have the vague statement by The Roberts that the insurance we get as part of the LTI feature will only have a minor impact on the game, since the "legit" insurance of that level would be rather cheap. He stressed that it would not be a balance breaking amount of credits. Make of that what you will.

Not claiming that the LTI won't cause balance problems, mind you. Due to the vastly different schedules I'm still keeping mum about SC. Elite is close to being released, SC will come whenever. Expect a bit of angry noises from me once SC enters the last stretch with LTI issues and whatnot.


Example: If an Elite alpha player can afford an Anaconda and save ~175k credits on his insurance, then that's quite a bit of moola he can invest in weaponry or freight that an ordinary player cannot hope to match given the same amount of playtime and money.

Worse yet, as ships (and by extension, insurance fees) grow more expensive, a blanket insurance rebate based on percentages will impact the game more strongly as time goes on.

SC has avoided this particular pitfall completely. Sure, a bunch of lucky backers may hit the jackpot and grab a hold of an overpowered hull, but they just need to release a new model with better specs to fix that. LTI will only ever give you the hull you pledged for, not a more modern revision. Eventually, I expect all LTI hulls to underperform due to power creep. At that point, they are able to futz around with insurance rates all they want to balance the game.

Elite can't do shit about their version of LTI. They have given a no-holds-barred indefinite rebate that effectively gimps insurance rates as a means of money flow control. The higher insurance rates go, the more alpha and beta backers benefit, thus giving them a tangible edge. The lower they go, the less money they remove from the game and the more likely the players will engage in unsavoury tactics (kamikaze attacks etc). No easy way out of this particular problem, so they can only keep it in the middle and try to affect the market with other means, such as docking fees, taxes, or inflation.

Great explanation. Thanks a ton for taking the time. Makes sense since, like you said, there are different variations of hulls. They don't have that in ED as far as I can tell.

 

[Mengy]

That Frontier says this only now, that briefly, and so poorly worded means that they're either:

a) Really really crappy at handling customer relations.
b) Stupid, in the sense that they can't see how poorly handled this is.
c) Intentionally deceitful. They know that this will cause a shitstorm, and waited as long as they could to tell it.

Not any of those options makes me want to be a customer to them.

Nope, you are correct, no matter what happened or how you look at it this makes Frontier look extremely bad. It's just inexcusable from every way you can look at it. It makes me not want to support them either, but the game they have made does appeal to me greatly, all except for the online only part. That is a huge negative that is really making me question a purchase of any kind from me. I won't make a final decision until after release, maybe by then I won't care anymore due to the disgust festering inside of me, lol.

 

[Wreav]

Buried in the offline thread on the FD forums was this gem from the EULA. What the hell?! Emphasis is mine. Targeted advertising which can only be avoided by playing offline, which as we now know isn't possible?

8. In-Game Advertising
The Game may incorporate technology (which may be provided by Frontier or third party service providers engaged by Frontier (each a “Dynamic Advertising Provider”)) which enables advertising to be uploaded into the Game on your PC, and changed while the Game is being played on-line. In order that the Dynamic Advertising Provider is able to direct advertising appropriate to your Game and geographic region, as well as to the correct location within the computer game, certain non-personally identifiable data and information may be retrieved and retained by the Dynamic Advertising Provider including your I.P. address, geographic location, in-game position, and information concerning the appearance of advertising visible during your gameplay (for example, the length of time an item of advertising was visible, the dimensions of the advertisements). In addition, the Dynamic Advertising Provider may assign a unique identification number which is stored on your PC and which is used to monitor and calculate the number of views of dynamic advertising during gameplay. None of the information collected for this purpose including the identification number can be used to identify you.

The technology employed by Dynamic Advertising Providers may be located outside your country of residence (including outside of the European Union).

Where a Game incorporates dynamic advertising technology, the technology which serves the provision of dynamic in-game advertising is integrated within the Game. This means that if you do not want to receive dynamic advertising, you should only play the game when you are not connected to the Internet.

 

[Mengy]

Buried in the offline thread on the FD forums was this gem from the EULA. What the hell?! Emphasis is mine. Targeted advertising which can only be avoided by playing offline, which as we now know isn't possible?

Yep, they have been lying to everyone for a long time, both in posts, in promises, and in legal documents. The forum moderators apparently had zero knowledge that this had been cut over a year ago until the newsletter hit two days ago. It's EA levels of bad honestly.

Gamespot now has it on their site, I have a feeling this is going to create lots of bad press that they really don't need a few weeks before release...

Now Polygon has it too.

 

[A-V-B]

Makes me wonder if there are going to be lots of microtransactions and floating space ads in the full release.