'Zwarte Piet' Controversy Leads To 90 Arrests In Netherlands

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maquiladora

Member
Protesters disrupted a pre-Christmas celebration Saturday in the Netherlands that uses “Black Petes” to accompany St. Nicholas, leading to 90 arrests in the Dutch town of Gouda, the Associated Press reported. The Black Petes, known locally as "Zwarte Piet" and usually in blackface, wear jesters’ costumes and have accentuated red lips in what opponents say is a racist display.

Photos from the scene posted on the Daily Mail showed black protesters wearing shirts that said “Black Pete is Racist” in Dutch. Both supporters and protesters of the tradition in the Netherlands and Belgium were among those arrested, a spokesman for the local prosecutor's office told the AP. About 60 protesters were arrested because they did not demonstrate in a previously designated area to vent their anger and were fined 220 euros ($275.) The remaining 30 were arrested for disturbing public order.
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The organizers of the Gouda event had “Yellow Petes” walk with St. Nicholas along with the Black Petes as a sign of compromise to those who believe Black Pete is racist, the AP reported.
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http://www.ibtimes.com/black-pete-r...troversy-leads-90-arrests-netherlands-1724362

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MODERATOR'S NOTE:

Hello, and welcome to our yearly Zwarte Piet thread. For those of you new to this particular tradition, I have some brief advice for you.

1) This thread will be contentious. That means there isn't much room for smart-assery, as opposed to real discussion. If the former is your only desire, you'd be best off not posting.
2) Don't ask everyone in the thread about the history of Zwarte Piet. That history is available to you easily by hitting Google and Wikipedia. Do your own homework.
3) Remain calm and polite. Disagreement is welcome, calling people names isn't.

Zwarte Piet resources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
http://www.vqronline.org/who-zwarte-piet
http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/zwarte-piet/
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
The organizers of the Gouda event had “Yellow Petes” walk with St. Nicholas along with the Black Petes as a sign of compromise to those who believe Black Pete is racist, the AP reported.
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Don't know if to laugh or cry
 
Arjen

Arjen

Member
O dear, i was hoping we would skip the thread this year.
Let's change the costume already to black smudges, no red lips etc. to fit the soot story.
This whole thing is getting truly embarasing and shows how backwards and racist this country apparantly is.
 
P

Prophet Steve

Member
Mammoth Jones said:
Good on those Black protesters for standing up for themselves in the Netherlands and letting people know that shit is not cool.
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There is plenty of opposition nowadays in The Netherlands, but this was bad.

Unless there isn't a place for them to protest, and I think there was, they shouldn't protest in an area that is not designated for it.

I assume they were protesting at the festivities and it is a festivity for the children. I don't think they need to be there.
 
kurisu_1974

kurisu_1974

Banned
Mesousa said:
The Netherland's national embarrassment.

It has to stop now.
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Because this is affecting you how?

These actions are just as embarrasing. 80 years without issues, and now violence and arrests... and who exactly is being discriminated or hurt here?

Meanwhile at the neighbor's:

http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/r...ede-sinterklaas-in-antwerpen-a2122946/256Ybz/

Edit: some of the pics in OT are from the festivities in Antwerp, which is not in The Netherlands and where there were NO incidents.
 
M

Mammoth Jones

Member
Prophet Steve said:
There is plenty of opposition nowadays in The Netherlands, but this was bad.

Unless there isn't a place for them to protest, and I think there was, they shouldn't protest in an area that is not designated for it.

I assume they were protesting at the festivities and it is a festivity for the children. I don't think they need to be there.
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Free speech zones is bullshit. They'll put their "protest zone" out in the middle of nowhere and basically ensure their protest doesn't get ANY exposure. Fuck that. Protests are about getting the exposure and attention they need for the issue they want to discuss.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
But GAF told me that European blacks don't even know what blackface is and would never be offended by it. Those shirts though.
 
M

Mesousa

Banned
kurisu1974 said:
Because this is affecting you how?

These actions are just as embarrasing. 80 years without issues, and now violence and arrests... and who exactly is being discriminated or hurt here?

Meanwhile at the neighbor's:

http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/r...ede-sinterklaas-in-antwerpen-a2122946/256Ybz/

No violence, no protests, just an innocent tradtional festivity with 53 Pieten... Why are opinions so different when you move 50km to the south?

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An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

This racism needs to end Kurisu.
 
N

Nappuccino

Member
Prophet Steve said:
There is plenty of opposition nowadays in The Netherlands, but this was bad.

Unless there isn't a place for them to protest, and I think there was, they shouldn't protest in an area that is not designated for it.

I assume they were protesting at the festivities and it is a festivity for the children. I don't think they need to be there.
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"Yes, go protest where we cannot see you."

I don't know. I'm a bit torn and I think a lot of this is because I'm very unfamiliar with the origins and reasons for the costume. When cultures are so different, I don't really want to point the racist finger after seeing a few pictures. It certainly wouldn't fly over here in the states given our history of it's usage though, that's for sure.
 
I

Ingueferroque

Banned
kurisu1974 said:
Because this is affecting you how?

These actions are just as embarrasing. 80 years without issues, and now violence and arrests... and who exactly is being discriminated or hurt here?

Meanwhile at the neighbor's:

http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/racisme

Edit: some of the pics in OT are from the festivities in Antwerp, which is not in The Netherlands and where there were NO incidents.
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Being originally from Belgium, the last time I commented on this matter I got banned. So yeah..
 
M

Mesousa

Banned
Nappuccino said:
"Yes, go protest where we cannot see you."

I don't know. I'm a bit torn and I think a lot of this is because I'm very unfamiliar with the origins and reasons for the costume. When cultures are so different, I don't really want to point the racist finger after seeing a few pictures. It certainly wouldn't fly over here in the states given our history of it's usage though, that's for sure.
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Apparently it does not fly over there either given the protests.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
kurisu1974 said:
Because this is affecting you how?

These actions are just as embarrasing. 80 years without issues, and now violence and arrests... and who exactly is being discriminated or hurt here?

Meanwhile at the neighbor's:

http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/racisme

Edit: some of the pics in OT are from the festivities in Antwerp, which is not in The Netherlands and where there were NO incidents.
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I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"...
- Letter from a Birmingham Jail, Martin Luther King, Jr
 
T

Two Words

Member
Is it just me, or are the red lips always the most fucked up part of blackface as far as depiction goes? I mean, black people don't really have lips like that at all.
 
S

Stet

Banned
At least now people can't ask, "if it's so offensive, where are all the Dutch black people who are offended by Zwarte Piet?!"

There they are. Right there.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Stet said:
At least now people can't ask, "if it's so offensive, where are all the Dutch black people who are offended by Zwarte Piet?!"

There they are. Right there.
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Sorry, you were already beaten by "if it's so offensive, where are all the Belgian black people who are offended by Zwarte Piet?!"
 
D

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
kurisu1974 said:
Because this is affecting you how?

These actions are just as embarrasing. 80 years without issues, and now violence and arrests... and who exactly is being discriminated or hurt here?

Meanwhile at the neighbor's:

http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/r...ede-sinterklaas-in-antwerpen-a2122946/256Ybz/

Edit: some of the pics in OT are from the festivities in Antwerp, which is not in The Netherlands and where there were NO incidents.
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yea... the hell with these Negro agitators.

smh
 
C

Coolwhip

Banned
Stet said:
At least now people can't ask, "if it's so offensive, where are all the Dutch black people who are offended by Zwarte Piet?!"

There they are. Right there.
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Meh, if you start a rally against fluffy bunnies, people will show up too. That's a poor argument.
 
kurisu_1974

kurisu_1974

Banned
Mesousa said:
Apparently it does not fly over there either given the protests.
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These protests started only about 2 or three years ago, with as high point that lady that filed some sort of complaint to the UN (not sure about the details).

Outrage is the new black.

Mesousa said:
So these people are protesting for no reason?
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Well you seem to be fully behind their cause, so please tell me what do YOU think?

Thorakai said:
this is turning into a definition argument rather quickly
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I think that is exactly what it is, actually.
 
H

HarryHengst

Member
There already is a discussing in the country about the tradition, with people in favour of changing it gaining ground with each year. Wouldnt surprise me if it's gone within 5 to 10 years.
 
S

Silky

Banned
kurisu1974 said:
And why is it racism if no one is being discriminated and no rights are being violated?
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Pretty sure a cultural thing that perpetuates racial stereotypes would file under 'discrimination.'

You can do the Zwarte Piet thing without the need to add the racial characteristics. Like a lot of people in Netherlands are actually /doing./
 
W

WriterGK

Member
mellz said:
Damn that's racist, just abolish this racist tradition Netherlands.
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Its really much more complicated than that. This dutch TV show ''POW News'' even went to a place in Amsterdam called Bijlmer Arena and there are many black people living there. And almost none of them are offended by Black Peter being Black. It comes from the chimney but this hole discussion around it is getting way too embarassing. There was even a 15 year old kid that got punched in the face by a 31 year old man because she was dressed like Black Peter with black greasepaint on her face.
 
C

confuziz

Banned
WriterGK said:
Its really much more complicated than that. This dutch TV show ''POW News'' even went to a place in Amsterdam called Bijlmer Arena and there are many black people living there. And almost none of them are offended by Black Peter being Black. It comes from the chimney but this hole discussion around it is getting way too embarassing. There was even a 15 year old kid that got punched in the face by a 31 year old man because she was dressed like Black Peter with black greasepaint on her face.
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Stop it. Please don't make sense.
 
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