I don't know... I've been studying this animated GIF for the last 10 minutes and I'm honestly struggling to see any actual differences:
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Metal Gear Solid V - PC vs. PS4 screenshot comparison
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I don't know... I've been studying this animated GIF for the last 10 minutes and I'm honestly struggling to see any actual differences:
yeah i didnt want to present false image by editing that out... but my point still stands... lighting is great in PC as is the better draw distance and shadows.
Level of Detail...
Models and textures and and general LoD is a pretty small difference. Not saying PC is junk or trying to start a war... but to boast that PC version has HUGE LoD differences feel a little disingenuous.
JordanN
Banned
If that was the case, I would be disappointed in PC graphics TBH. I would be expecting graphics more closer to a 2014 CG movie to call "next gen". Not an extra point light or two.
And before someone accuses me of something, I hold the same belief for PS4/XBO comparisons. Only a few games have met my expectation of what each console is really capable of.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Came for the pretty, stayed for the meltdowns.
yeah like i said.. i wasnt going to edit it. but you get my point... other than lighting, reflections draw distance...
Textures models and overal detail is not as big as people are going on about.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
After taking a look at the link on his tag I'd say it is a serious post.
Felix Lighter
Member
its really NOT that big a difference as far as LoD... dont know how people can say that it is.
Draw Distance
Lighting
Reflections
are the Noticeable differences. but LoD is not a big difference AT ALL.
without seeing reflections, lights, and draw distance... they are very very similar in LoD.
Can you look at these crops, and honestly say its a BIG DIFFERENCE? Can you even tell which is which? (whithout cheating and looking at the originals.)
LOD differences are hard to show when there is a building 20 feet from the character blocking anything at a distance that would be effected by level of detail changes over distance. You may want to use the other image to see the difference.
The level of detail at varying levels of distance. That's why your shot of all very close objects doesn't refute the idea improved LoD.
He's right, everyone here has been confusing LOD with draw distance. But it doesn't change anything in discussion besides the term.
LOD is model level of detail. There's multiple versions of same model with different levels of detail for various distances in games.
Draw distance is how far those objects appear while including all LOD levels.
yeah Detail is pretty similar (better on PC but not the huge leap people are claiming).... but the fact that you can SEE the detail further makes everyone automatically say LoD is better when its not really that much different.
Like i said im not saying the PC version isnt great... just that people are saying LoD is HUGE DIFFERENCE.... its really not.
But it's both. There is an improved draw distance AND improved level of detail. On the objects which are drawn at the same distance on the PS4/PC there is an increased level of detail on the PC version.
Felix Lighter
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_detail
This is what is being referenced The terminology is correct.
This is what is being referenced The terminology is correct.
It's pretty obvious that when people say there's a difference in LOD, they're not talking about the actual levels, but instead are referring to the difference in distances at which the levels are changed.
If the models and textures looked better at the highest LOD, we would just say the PC version has better models and textures. The fact that LOD is mentioned at all should clue you in that people are talking about the difference in distance, and LOD is not necessarily the same thing as draw distance.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Why do people keep saying 60FPS is a difference.
Because that's flat out wrong.
The PC version would have a variable framerate depending on system specs.
60FPS is not a PC feature. The ability to run at a higher more consistent frame-rate depending on hardware is available on a PC that isn't on the PS4.
It's a pet peeve of mine.. because it's really misleading.
..but damn.. those PC shots like nice compared to the PS4 shots. I didn't really find GZ to be much of a looker on the PS4.. actually I found it to be pretty ugly honestly.. but the extra LOD and that lighting and reflections really help round out the pretty bland level design in the game.
Because that's flat out wrong.
The PC version would have a variable framerate depending on system specs.
60FPS is not a PC feature. The ability to run at a higher more consistent frame-rate depending on hardware is available on a PC that isn't on the PS4.
It's a pet peeve of mine.. because it's really misleading.
..but damn.. those PC shots like nice compared to the PS4 shots. I didn't really find GZ to be much of a looker on the PS4.. actually I found it to be pretty ugly honestly.. but the extra LOD and that lighting and reflections really help round out the pretty bland level design in the game.
Level 0 - the highest detailed models are still the same, they didn't create new models for PC version. It's just that LOD is a lot less aggressive and draw distance is much higher on PC highest settings.
Yes, I said that it doesn't change anything in discussion.
Nah, it's not. Read the wiki yourself. And read how draw distance is defined as well.
Right, level of detail is about detail + distance and how the levels of detail vary at different distances. Showing the closets level (e.g. 0 in your example) isn't how you refute that. I don't think people were suggesting that at every distance, the detail is increased on PC.
okay... then lets refrain from using LoD so not to confuse OVERALL DETAIL with draw distance taken into effect and General Detail...
detail at same distance on both:
looks pretty close in terms of textures models and detail.
Im really not trying to be.
Like i said in my other posts... PC version clearly has the advantage on draw distance, lighting, reflections...
My bad for assuming that LoD was strictly detail instead of overall detail.
But with that out of the way... Model Detail, Texture Detail without Draw Distance taken into effect... isnt that big of a difference...
You're still doing it. The point of level of detail is that you decrease or increase detail at depending on distance. Both of your examples are showing what is likely the highest level of detail, and yes, that is seemingly not changed between the PC and PS4 version. What people are saying, is that as the distance increases, the detail on objects (objects which ARE drawn on both systems at the same distance), the detail begins to decrease on the PS4 sooner (note: not that the object isn't being drawn).
The fact you've chosen these two close examples twice suggests you still don't quite understand LoD. You're right that draw distance is different than LoD, but you're seemingly disregarding distance in the LoD equation.
My argument here is against your examples, because they are bad.
Zomba13
Member
This whole debate about LoD and draw distance just seems a bit silly to me because it's just about terminology. It's clear from the comparison of the starting area that the PC version is showing the higher detailed effects and models at a longer distance. Like, where the PS4 would switch down a level the PC version keeps the most detailed for longer before dropping down a level etc. It;s why you can see the additional light sources and objects/level geometry from the starting point when compared to the PS4 version.
In close quarters (where the scene is only showing very close stuff) then yeah, there won't be much difference unless the PC player has pumped up the resolution or AA or other nice effects (either in settings, through the driver or a third party tool). Unless there are additional light sources present then the PC version will look better.
Also, picking out a small section of a screenshot that shows a view with a lot of distance is kinda avoiding the point because what makes the PC version look better is all of the image, not just a little bit. Like, what are you trying to prove? That the PC version is using the same models and resources as the PS4 version?
In close quarters (where the scene is only showing very close stuff) then yeah, there won't be much difference unless the PC player has pumped up the resolution or AA or other nice effects (either in settings, through the driver or a third party tool). Unless there are additional light sources present then the PC version will look better.
Also, picking out a small section of a screenshot that shows a view with a lot of distance is kinda avoiding the point because what makes the PC version look better is all of the image, not just a little bit. Like, what are you trying to prove? That the PC version is using the same models and resources as the PS4 version?
Felix Lighter
Member
I didn't say the term draw distance was inappropriate but using the term LOD when referring to LOD algorithm is completely appropriate here.
Edit:
I guess if you want to speak strictly, the algorithm is likely the same with different parameters. Though I still feel there is no ambiguity with the term LOD here.
I hope you aren't trying to prove something that doesn't need proving. People were just getting very excited and used incorrect terminology as usual. It would be silly if people started arguing about the fact that their artists didn't create brand-new low poly models for PC version. (I mean low poly bake for LOD0 from high-poly models that have millions of polygons.)okay... then lets refrain from using LoD so not to confuse OVERALL DETAIL with draw distance taken into effect and Overall Detail...
detail at same distance on both:
looks pretty close in terms of textures models and detail.
Altered Juice
Member
okay... then lets refrain from using LoD so not to confuse OVERALL DETAIL with draw distance taken into effect and General Detail...
detail at same distance on both:
looks pretty close in terms of textures models and detail.
Im really not trying to be.
Like i said in my other posts... PC version clearly has the advantage on draw distance, lighting, reflections...
My bad for assuming that LoD was strictly detail instead of overall detail.
But with that out of the way... Model Detail, Texture Detail without Draw Distance taken into effect... isnt that big of a difference...
damn snake look so dry in the top pic.
edit: lol that's pc!
Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that the assets are about the same for the most part. The difference seems to be mainly in how those assets are presented: at greater distances, higher resolutions, anti-aliasing, anisotropic filtering, etc.
Which is pretty much the norm for console to PC ports.
paperspace
Member
its really NOT that big a difference as far as LoD... dont know how people can say that it is.
Draw Distance
Lighting
Reflections
are the Noticeable differences. but LoD is not a big difference AT ALL.
without seeing reflections, lights, and draw distance... they are very very similar in LoD.
Can you look at these crops, and honestly say its a BIG DIFFERENCE? Can you even tell which is which? (whithout cheating and looking at the originals.)
Agreed. If you remove the differences, there's no difference! Everybody wins.
and thus why i said lets refrain from using LoD... lets just say DETAIL.... you are the one who said:
and my post points that out... does it not?
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
pls stop posting close ups, the dithering hurts my eyes ;_;
Lol yeah, even then you can see on the wall the difference. What a crock.
Digital-Hero
Member
The real gauge of performance and graphics.
yeah im not... i said earlier i wasnt trying to incite a war or anything... ah well lol.
The Dear Leader
Banned
You're trying way too hard, your pointing out were the detail is the same but literally cropping out the parts where it isn't. You're selectively showing parts that fit your point while getting semantical on what he was trying to say in terms of level of detail.
If you look at the full image, you can't honestly say there isn't a difference in level of detail or detail as you call it.
No, because we're specifically talking about LoD, it's the correct terminology. Your examples show that at likely the highest level of detail (closest distance) the detail on the PC and PS4 are the same. That does not challenge the argument of improved LoD.
For you to challenge that argument with valid evidence, you would need to provide examples at multiple distances on the same objects. The difference in distance between objects on your first example is minimal at best, and your second example likely almost nothing.
if you read any of my other posts you would know.
The Dear Leader
Banned
I read all of them unfortunately.
and i already admitted that my assumption of LoD was wrong.
then you would have seen i already said the detail overall on PC is better, and you wouldnt have to ask..
Oh, sorry - I must have missed that. I must have conflated you and another poster.
deeptech
Member
I know right. The fact that some here try so hard to convince others that the difference is very small or non-existing between the two is just pure comedy. Like what's their deal , to make me less excited for PC version? You know what, they're right PS4 definitely looks way better and enhances Kojimas vision lot more than PC version does. Higher draw distance , better shadows , higher rendering resolution , reflections , options and inevitable custom graphics tweaks only make PC version look worse and more poor in comparison.
icecold1983
Member
indeed, differences dont get much bigger than this when it comes to pc ports.
Regarding the discussion going on for most of this page:
When people say "LoD" or when there is a "LoD" option, it usually refers to / affects the distance(s) at which whatever LoD-adjusting algorithm which is used kicks in. Personally, I try to say "LoD distance" to avoid misunderstandings.
Regarding earlier in the thread after I bowed out:
Wow, that escalated quickly.
When people say "LoD" or when there is a "LoD" option, it usually refers to / affects the distance(s) at which whatever LoD-adjusting algorithm which is used kicks in. Personally, I try to say "LoD distance" to avoid misunderstandings.
Regarding earlier in the thread after I bowed out:
Wow, that escalated quickly.
Felix Lighter
Member
I guess I probably missed it. Is this game locked to 60?
ScepticMatt
Member
The Sony Brand is finally over. Maybe next decade!
It's over, period. Sony lost their last ace, and that's the end of their PS4 hopes and dreams.
It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for PS4. Sony has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created.
There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in a PS4, now that you can also play MSGV on PC.
Final Fantasy XV will also come to Steam at some point.
Steam took the last reason away that anyone would NEED to own a PS4 over a PC (except Uncharted 4 LOL GAMING),
and the cavalcade of tiny titles that will be nice but won't stir up any sales is not going to salvage the plebian, underpowered trash that was PS4.
There may be some hardcore gamer's that stick around. Some did it for the Vita. But the last bell tolled. Maybe next decade.
The age of Sony is done.
It's over, period. Sony lost their last ace, and that's the end of their PS4 hopes and dreams.
It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for PS4. Sony has nothing left, nothing they can reveal tomorrow would fix the hole now created.
There is no reason left for any one, hardcore or casual, to substantively invest in a PS4, now that you can also play MSGV on PC.
Final Fantasy XV will also come to Steam at some point.
Steam took the last reason away that anyone would NEED to own a PS4 over a PC (except Uncharted 4 LOL GAMING),
and the cavalcade of tiny titles that will be nice but won't stir up any sales is not going to salvage the plebian, underpowered trash that was PS4.
There may be some hardcore gamer's that stick around. Some did it for the Vita. But the last bell tolled. Maybe next decade.
The age of Sony is done.
Yeah, I wasn't being sarcastic, I did believe you and re-read your posts
ahh k.. my bad!
I really DO think PC version looks great... and with drawdistance lighting and everything is obviously better looking... i guess i thought people were saying that models, textures in general were so much better... eh... its all good.
Yeah, according to a developer on the steam forums. Which is the biggest negative I've seen about the port so far. It's not the end of the world, but it would have been nice to be running at 144hz.