JumpJeff84
Member
When will people learn that you gotta be careful on twitter?
Starcraft 2 player disqualified from tournament because of rape tweet
- Thread starter Kinokou
- Start date
I doubt they do. It's a simple matter of ignorance and lack of empathy. Because this horrible thing hasn't touched their lives, it's just a word to them. Never mind there are hundreds, or thousands of words for "destroy" you could use which aren't rape... To them it's just a word.
Likely it'll just be a word until it touches their lives. Empathy requires knowledge of how bad something is and understanding how it effects someone, which is sorely lacking in a lot of people.
Never.
Honestly, given Google and how long stuff gets saved online, I'm very, very glad the internet was in its infancy when I was a teenager. I would not want any of that stuff haunting me for the rest of my life.
Leafhopper
Banned
On youtube? Probably not.
People have to learn to think before saying crap like that on social media. You F up, your going to get crucified. I think he should get a lifetime ban, Violent crime is not "funny".
Deified Data
Banned
Fair enough. You want to control the image of your export, control who enters your tournaments.
Wow. That's missing the point.
So... Question for everyone calling for a lifetime ban.
If you ever said something stupid and senseless at work, would you be okay with a lifetime ban from your current career? Because that's basically what you're saying here: One screw up, and you have to start over from scratch.
Let's be real here: What he did was bad, but not "fuck off forever and never come back" bad.
If you ever said something stupid and senseless at work, would you be okay with a lifetime ban from your current career? Because that's basically what you're saying here: One screw up, and you have to start over from scratch.
Let's be real here: What he did was bad, but not "fuck off forever and never come back" bad.
FriedConsole
Banned
Wow. I guess it is easier to pick on mentally disabled people because they aren't able to articulate back as easily? Seriously you're just as much a dumb fuck if you use retarded pejoratively.
Death Metalist
Member
Good.
Twitter will forever be the gift that always keeps on giving.
NumberThree
Member
I'm pretty sure he'd have been disqualified even if his opponent was a guy, from what I've seen the SC2 community is pretty good with that sort of stuff.
Yes, as it mirrors professional sports code of conduct. This is mostly in place of "sportsmanship" idealism, but largely more for protecting their "brands".
No, however they should have had an alternate fill the position in the semi-finals.
The action or the reprecussion? There have been folks ejected from various tournaments, but I am not sure about the "professional" level. An ejection for a tweet outside of the game though doesn't sound like something I've heard about before.
No. The bar for entry is really high for this. Basically hardcore gamers are interested in this sort of thing and only those of a certain talent level and lifestyle options are even have the remote option of going down this route at all at a professional level and receiving sponsorship among other things. It would be like looking at the difference between an "all star" athlete and the rest of the team that supports the "star".
Neuromancer
Member
If he can't be professional, he doesn't deserve to play in a professional gaming environment. I say good riddance.
As someone that follow the starcraft scene, here is my 2 cents:
1. No matter how bad taste it seems, rape "joke" or, killing are often said in any competitive game, just like a classic trash talk to your opponent, things like "I will kill him", "it will be a rape" or stuff like that are often said without anyone complaining about it when its said from man to man. Of course, saying "i'm going to rape you" to women, even if it is in the same context so clearly not a real threat, is way more offending to them and it is understandable that Maddelisk was offended.
2. The women in question was invited in this tournament not because of her skills as she is kind of low level but because of her gender, which is also -in my opinion but off topic- a little bit problematic.
3. Anyway, in this context, knowing the skill of its opponent it is clear, without any doubt imo, that his tweet was not like a threat of sexually or physical violence but just that he was to win easily (which he did, since as a matter of fact the game was played before the decision to ban him was taken after).
I don't want to defend Kas, because it was really an extra-dumb thing to say in a public media, especially now with all the #gamergate stuff and the tournament is in his right to ban him, joking about rape is clearly not a good thing as this word carry a lot of weight. But as bad as it is, the shitstorm after it with extreme and polarized overreactions on both "sides" ("it just a word!!! " " you all are misogynist rapist!!!" seems crazy to me and exploded out of proportion.
1. No matter how bad taste it seems, rape "joke" or, killing are often said in any competitive game, just like a classic trash talk to your opponent, things like "I will kill him", "it will be a rape" or stuff like that are often said without anyone complaining about it when its said from man to man. Of course, saying "i'm going to rape you" to women, even if it is in the same context so clearly not a real threat, is way more offending to them and it is understandable that Maddelisk was offended.
2. The women in question was invited in this tournament not because of her skills as she is kind of low level but because of her gender, which is also -in my opinion but off topic- a little bit problematic.
3. Anyway, in this context, knowing the skill of its opponent it is clear, without any doubt imo, that his tweet was not like a threat of sexually or physical violence but just that he was to win easily (which he did, since as a matter of fact the game was played before the decision to ban him was taken after).
I don't want to defend Kas, because it was really an extra-dumb thing to say in a public media, especially now with all the #gamergate stuff and the tournament is in his right to ban him, joking about rape is clearly not a good thing as this word carry a lot of weight. But as bad as it is, the shitstorm after it with extreme and polarized overreactions on both "sides" ("it just a word!!! " " you all are misogynist rapist!!!" seems crazy to me and exploded out of proportion.
Atraveller
Banned
Why would anyone type that stuff on twitter?
mentallyinept
Banned
That's pretty much where I fall on this.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
That's not stupid and senseless.
That's crazy.
If I said something that horrible at my work, I'd be escorted out of the building and asked not to come back.
GeordieMark
Member
There is no excuse for saying something like that. He deserves everything he is getting as a result.
It's a nasty thing to say, and completely indefensible.
It's a nasty thing to say, and completely indefensible.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Yeah. Just like people who call everything gay, he didnt even think of the wider implications of what he was saying.
Petrae
Member
Either you adapt to changing norms and expectations as it pertains to social media behavior... or you suffer the consequences.
We see this happen time and time again-- not just in (e)sports, but also affecting other careers. Like it or not, the expectation of political correctness is increasing and social media users must understand that they can be held accountable if they share/say something that's considered offensive.
If you don't approve of political correctness, there's always the choice to avoid using social media altogether.
Considering the fact that what he said is a violent threat to another human being predicated on misogyny and political oppression, I'd say that a "lifetime ban" from an esports organization is getting off easy. That was way beyond merely "stupid and senseless." It was hateful, violent, and oppressive. Not sure what the laws are like in that part of the world, but in many places that tweet would be grounds for severe legal prosecution.
If I said "I'm going to rape some girl" my career with my current compay would probably be over. I most certainly would be starting over from scratch.
Handy Fake
Member
I'm not sure about this. It was a bloody daft thing to say, for definite, but a lot of the time it's a phrase used out of context of its intended use.
Newcastle manager Alan Pardew got hauled over the coals for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToAah0ME4bY
"Strong boy, absolutely rapes him."
I'm not defending it in any way, I'm just saying for quite a while now it's been used outside of its usual context.
(It's still awful.)
Newcastle manager Alan Pardew got hauled over the coals for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToAah0ME4bY
"Strong boy, absolutely rapes him."
I'm not defending it in any way, I'm just saying for quite a while now it's been used outside of its usual context.
(It's still awful.)
That's not a lifetime ban.
That's not "out of context." Just because something is said casually doesn't diminish its presumed context. "Rape" is a word whose meaning and force depends on understanding its context. It would be effectively meaningless without it.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
People have suggested a lifetime ban from all tournaments. That would be the equivalent of you losing your job at your current company and being banned from all other companies in your field of work. What does that do? Make an example out of him? Great, that doesn't really solve anything. It just teaches people to watch what they say on Twitter, not to change how they think about words. Increase the ban from one year to somewhere around 3-5 and provide opportunities within the eSport community for conversations on poor uses of vocabulary. That will do far more for bettering the eSport scene than merely lifetime banning a guy.
BenjiGAF
Member
Telling a coworker "I'm going to rape you" would definitely be "fuck off forever and never come back" severe.
PetriP-TNT
Member
I really wonder what goes through some individuals mind when using your 160 characters on Twitter to type "I am going to rape some girl soon" and pressing enter.
At what exact point does it seem like a good idea
At what exact point does it seem like a good idea
Handy Fake
Member
My point being that he didn't mean it as in literal sexual assault.
Presumably.
Just as Alan Pardew didn't mean it as Essien seriously sexually assaulted another player on a football pitch.
Again not excusing it - it's a stupid word to use - but I have noticed it coming into fashion more as childish reference to destroying something.
In this case I'd have given him the benefit of the doubt, told him it was unacceptable, let him issue an apology, and then move on.
EDIT: Saying that, I think the degree of idiocy is increased considering it's an international tournament and a word such as "rape" loses all sense of (distasteful) colloquialism when it travels.
I'd also agree with this.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I just want to say, just because we give him the benefit of the doubt does not mean we're giving him the benefit of a "magic eraser." He will carry the stain of what he said for the rest of his career, and eSports should use this as an opportunity to help carry this conversation forward. Indeed, he should be included as part of that conversation.
Well, that all depends on how you understand the relationship between words and action. If I were a white American and I said to a black American "I'm going to lynch you," would it matter if I meant that "literally" or not? No. But it's a statement that draws its force and meaning from deeply rooted structures of violent oppression (i.e. "context"). Its "literalness" is irrelevant. And the fact that a word like "rape" would be used casually perpetuates a worldview in which the action itself is understood to be acceptable.
Right. There are some people who just shouldn't be using twitter... Especially if you know that you're the type of person who says things without fully thinking them through, which he admitted to.
He totally deserves the ban. Who says that?
Handy Fake
Member
Indeed, well put.
Oh no doubt, and I tried to convey that in my edit. It was perhaps an unthinking and stupid thing to put, rather than a malicious one, is my point.
Twitter seems to have taken over from 11pm in the local pub for the utterance of terribly inappropriate brainfarts.
It was "fuck off forever and never come back" bad.
No one is entitled to a career playing video games or even a career at all. People must take responsibility for their actions.
1. real rape is horribel, there is no discussion
that said, he used this to provoke his enemy, i think people here are overreacting as soon as the word is beeing used... (and as i said, rape is horribel. doesnt change the fact that its a metaphor in gaming and widely used. is it hard to differentiate or is this word not allowed in general and for having another view im vile shit now?) :/
whatever, he got his ban so it wasn't apropriate i guess.
btw, dont forget what gank ment...
that said, he used this to provoke his enemy, i think people here are overreacting as soon as the word is beeing used... (and as i said, rape is horribel. doesnt change the fact that its a metaphor in gaming and widely used. is it hard to differentiate or is this word not allowed in general and for having another view im vile shit now?) :/
whatever, he got his ban so it wasn't apropriate i guess.
btw, dont forget what gank ment...
Mammoth Jones
Member
Completely agree. This type of shit needs to stop.
Doesn't make it acceptable and the gamers that think it's acceptable need to get their shit checked when they try this shit without the anonymity of XBL/PSN to protect them.
I think using rape as a way to say you're better than someone at a game is trite and disgusting. Also tasteless. "Oh I got raped!" No you didn't. You got your ass kicked and you got schooled, but you didn't get raped. Call me PC, but we really don't need to be using rape so lightly when society is finally beginning to take slight notice of subtle social inequalities that are downright frightening to women, like how rape is a far real and greater threat to them than it is for men as a general statistic.
You can make way better insults and comments without using rape either. "I'm about to make this girl ask for a refund." "I am the leading cause of diabetes in SC2." etc.
You can make way better insults and comments without using rape either. "I'm about to make this girl ask for a refund." "I am the leading cause of diabetes in SC2." etc.
stump sock
Member
There's a reason companies now usually have sections in their employee handbook about social media presence.
If I said something like that in a public forum and my company found out, I would be fired pretty much on the spot. That's pretty much SOP these days. If your social media behavior reflects poorly on your place of employment, even if just by association, you aren't going to be an employee there for much longer in many cases.
Not surprised. I met him and other players at HSC last year and some of the players (don't remember who it was exactly) used the word "rape" to describe destroying somebody in an upcomming or finished match. I absolutely hate it, when people do this, because often those same people are pretty nice guys.
Yep. I hate it, when people throw the word arround like it doesn't mean anything other than "I destroyed you in that match". Whoever came up with this is an idiot and it's unfortunately too wide spreaded, so people probably won't stop saying it.
Yep. I hate it, when people throw the word arround like it doesn't mean anything other than "I destroyed you in that match". Whoever came up with this is an idiot and it's unfortunately too wide spreaded, so people probably won't stop saying it.
killdatninja
Banned
Agreed with this post, a lifetime ban is... a little on the extreme side. It's great that the organizers DQ'd him for being unprofessional but let the guy play in future tournies after he issues a public apology. This was just a case of shit talking in the worst way possible. Have the tourney/league issue a statement saying this shit won't be tolerated next time and that will have a future ban on future tournaments.
I get what you're saying, but assigning deliberate malice is also beside the point. He clearly meant his statement to draw on structures of violent oppression, even if he didn't mean he would literally commit the act. That seems pretty malicious to me, even if unthinking. I just don't see a way around it.
flatearthpandas
Member
Which is what exactly?
That is a word I've never seen used outside of killing lower level or distracted characters (basically just unfair world pvp) in an MMO.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Truth. You say some funky shit via social media and your job gets a complaint you are going to loose your job.
drotahorror
Member
Derp, don't say stuff like that for the public to see. Some people don't understand context of everything.
Similar threads
- Featured