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[chaosblade]

I'm up for some 1v1s. I can't guarantee I'll play any better than a level 3 CPU though, because I don't really have a feel for this game at all.

Also haven't played online yet so it will be kind of an experiment. NNID is the same as my username here.

 

[georly]

What was the original price for those Smash bundles? I can't find them anywhere for less than $170.

$99

 

[random25]

I think that for as long as we have a large roster we'll never see character-specific modes again.

Board the platforms was cut in Melee.
Break the targets was Downsized in Brawl.
Break the targets was varied but it's now a bonus stage in Smash Run instead of being its own mode.

As for the "main" side mode, Smash Tour is pretty fun with actual people as opponents rather than CPU. Though it loses its magic when you play alone.

I still think that Smash Run is the best other mode Smash ever had. Even with only 1 big stage, it has a lot of variety and it's quite challenging especially beating big enemies, and collecting power-ups and treasure chests makes me go for more bigger hunts. Though pretty understandable due to 3DS being a more personal device, I really would like this kind of mode in a home console Smash. Adventure mode was fun for a few tries before it gets too repetitive and dull. SSE has cool cinematics but it is really too long. If I'm gonna rank the modes:

Smash Run > Smash Tour = Adventure > SSE

But one thing that makes the SP Smash for Wii U really great for me are the Special Orders. Really fun and can get quite intense especially when the risks are rising in Crazy Orders.

 

[ratcliffja]

This game needs its own Smash Run, or some sort of Adventure Mode equivalent.

Also, would be so great to have Board the Platforms and Break the Targets back.

And the end of Smash Run, where each stock is a different character, should be its own mode (like Project M does, IIRC).

All of the above would make an amazing DLC update, Sakurai!

I agree. I'm not a huge fan of Smash Run, but at least there's a clear method to playing through it with a clear understanding of what's happening. Smash Tour is just constant chaos with WAY too many power-ups and things occurring on screen that it's extremely difficult to follow. It feels like a rushed mode that never panned out the way they originally intended. Fortunately, event mode and crazy/master orders make the single player experience a lot better.

Edit: I agree that character-specific levels in general just aren't feasible anymore with the current roster size. I would actually prefer that they minimize character-specific content going forward, as it makes adding new characters significantly more difficult.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Did anyone else return this after getting the KRool trophy? He didn't even get a trophy box, which is basically Sakurai saying he's about as important to Nintendo as Lil' Oinks and that fat frog from Rayman. It was the final slap in the face to fans from Sakurai for me. Hopefully someone new is in charge next time.

 

[hughesta]

Did anyone else return this after getting the KRool trophy? He didn't even get a trophy box, which is basically Sakurai saying he's about as important to Nintendo as Lil' Oinks and that fat frog from Rayman. It was the final slap in the face to fans from Sakurai for me. Hopefully someone new is in charge next time.

...joke post?

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Did anyone else return this after getting the KRool trophy? He didn't even get a trophy box, which is basically Sakurai saying he's about as important to Nintendo as Lil' Oinks and that fat frog from Rayman. It was the final slap in the face to fans from Sakurai for me. Hopefully someone new is in charge next time.

There's quite a few Trophies that don't have Trophy Boxes...including Zinger, who probably could've been in the same on as K. Rool. Makes me wonder if a few of them were late additions...

Quite a few of the items don't either, but some do. :/

 

[SparksterMeta0]

Nope, sorry.



Yeah, that's the final number.

Son of a--!

 

[Beelzebufo]

...joke post?

Yes lol

There's quite a few Trophies that don't have Trophy Boxes...including Zinger, who probably could've been in the same on as K. Rool. Makes me wonder if a few of them were late additions...

Quite a few of the items don't either, but some do. :/

There really should at least be a box with Zinger, K Rool, and the rest of the real DKC enemies that's just called "Garbage". At least then Sakurai would be honest about his feelings.

 

[Adaren]

I think that for as long as we have a large roster we'll never see character-specific modes again.

Compared to the baseline cost of creating a fighter (design, model, animations, voice, programming, balance

Spoiler

, CG trailer

), creating a unique "Break the Targets!" stage doesn't seem like that big of a chore. I'd love to see it return.

 

[Brandon F]

And the stages thing... what even is a good Smash stage? Maybe I've been fed gruel my whole life but I can't see where Smash 4's stage design failings lie in comparison with previous entries. What would a good stage be?
[/B]

Always felt Great Bay is a perfect example of the sort of stage design I miss in Smash. Lots of action on the platform with the turtle occasionally showing up/diving for some epic recoveries and loss moments. The bottom left adds safety respite with a huge risk factor given the low ceiling and small gap. No detrimental stage gimmicks or constant transitions shuttling the players about so your attention is always on the opposition and using the layout for reactionary or tactful purposes.

Too often in Smash 4, a lot of the stage hazards and transitions draw attention away from the core fighting. Nice to have a few of those for variety, but its gone a bit overboard. There is a nice selection of 'static' stages in Smash 4(and way too many transition stages) but even most of those are riddled with survival gimmicks that are quirky initially but end up getting in the way of the actual fun after several matches.

There was a pureness to the Smash 64/Melee stages that many of us still prefer.

 

[Beats]

Only thing I'm really disappointed in when it comes to the content is what they did with custom specials. Even though they're a great addition to the game, it feels like the game showers you in equipment and trophies, but you only get a couple of custom specials here and there. It's very grindy. It also sucks that they can't be used in the "With Anyone" online modes. : \

Crazy Orders is probably my favorite new mode.

 

[Karsticles]

...joke post?

Beelzebufo has been banned for trolling the thread multiple times.

 

[random25]

Compared to the baseline cost of creating a fighter (design, model, animations, voice, programming, balance

Spoiler

, CG trailer

), creating a unique "Break the Targets!" stage doesn't seem like that big of a chore. I'd love to see it return.

Given the trend, I don't really see it happening unless on the next Smash they will intentionally cut out one of the modes of the game.

 

[Dimmle]

Did anyone else return this after getting the KRool trophy? He didn't even get a trophy box, which is basically Sakurai saying he's about as important to Nintendo as Lil' Oinks and that fat frog from Rayman. It was the final slap in the face to fans from Sakurai for me. Hopefully someone new is in charge next time.

seems about right

Smash Tour is okay with people, but it seems to be serving no one. It's attempting to be Smash Party-- which essentially means bridging the gap between Smash and the casual "do-you-have-Mario-Kart-for-the-Wii" sister or brother-in-law who has never been able to grasp Smash in the first place, but unlike Mario Party, where everyone can win no matter their actual skill with the game, Smash Tour still comes down to "who's the best at Smash Bros?" Unless everyone is within the same range of skill, there's going to be one player dominating because they are just basically good at Smash Bros.

It doesn't offer the euphoric highs and hilarious lows of Mario Party or Kart that will rope in your grandpa and his new wife and it won't hook a dedicated Smash player, so... I don't know. It's a fun distraction for a bit. I'd be interested in playing it with three highly competitive people just to see how dickish it gets.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

52 individual target test stages is asking a lot from the development team. 35 was even too much in Brawl so they didn't do it. 64 and Melee had tame enough rosters that they could get away with being unique for each, but once the roster passed 30 and then again, passed 50, it just became impossible to expect unique stages for every character.

Even if we ignore the logistics and time needed, 52 more stages are a large amount of disk space.

I don't know why they didn't make a Brawl style Target Test though. It even sort of exists in Smash Run...

Well, 64 had 12 Break The Targets and 12 Board The Platforms, so 24 unique maps. Melee got rid of Board The Platforms and just had 25 unique Break The Targets maps. I guess 35 unique maps was too many. They could always have one map per franchise...

$99

Yeah, I preordered at Best Buy for this price and got it day 1.

 

[Brandon F]

Only thing I'm really disappointed in when it comes to the content is what they did with custom specials. Even though they're a great addition to the game, it feels like the game showers you in equipment and trophies, but you only get a couple of custom specials here and there. It's very grindy. It also sucks that they can't be used in the "With Anyone" online modes. : \

Yea, an 'Anything Goes!' online mode would be great and possibly extremely popular. I'm sure plenty wouldn't care about the balance issues it exhibits, if only to check out what wild setups people craft, especially regarding custom Mii's. Would bring far more unpredictability to the online experience and could be a total riot even if only to laugh at the terrible Mii creations.

I can't be bothered to really care about the custom equipment and setups really. None of my friends will take time on my copy to deal with it and relegated to only local play its all wasted potential when the world is capable of showing off creations in my living room.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Dat campin

 

[Dimmle]

Always felt Great Bay is a perfect example of the sort of stage design I miss in Smash. Lots of action on the platform with the turtle occasionally showing up/diving for some epic recoveries and loss moments. The bottom left adds safety respite with a huge risk factor given the low ceiling and small gap. No detrimental stage gimmicks or constant transitions shuttling the players about so your attention is always on the opposition and using the layout for reactionary or tactful purposes.

There was a pureness to the Smash 64/Melee stages that many of us still prefer.

Okay, I totally see what you mean. Great Bay is a fantastic stage, you're right about that. The earlier Smash stages had a sort of pop-up book design that didn't go overboard with stage transitions or hazardous features and allowed the players to focus on their environment and still encounter small surprises. Good explanation.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Dat campin

Ha, you mean with Sonic? I think I'm starting to realize that I have to actually use his speed for defense rather than just for offense.

 

[AHappyPanda]

Did all major retailers get the GC controller adapters or just certain ones?

 

[TheSlySoul]

Yea, an 'Anything Goes!' online mode would be great and possibly extremely popular.

I agree.
I think they should patch in Amiibos can be used for co-op because as it is now I cannot even play said mode.
The Group tab is so pointless for me since it is local only.

 

[Moonlight]

So what are people using for custom Palutenas? I feel like the best in each category are:

1. Auto-Reticle
2. Angelic Missile
3. Jump Glide
4. Counter

1. Explosive Flame: I was a big supporter of Autoreticle for a while, but I've been warming up to Explosive Flame. It's less useful for harassment than Autoreticle is, but it can still punish an approach if well-spaced, and the unblockable quality is really nice. I'm surprised by how many people will walk right into it.
2. Superspeed: The GOAT as far as I'm concerned. The utility of Superspeed is out of control. You can (jump) cancel it into almost everything, use it to escape, to combo, to intimidate. it's even useful for recovering sometimes. It's by far the best special that Palutena has. You even carry momentum into jumps with it! Although Reflect Barrier is really useful (and fun) against projectile-based characters. And it's perfect for trolling Villager.
3. Jump Glide: The first custom that I fell in love with. I've been doing some experimenting with Rocket Jump, since it combos with Superspeed, but gliding close off the ground and approaching with Palutena's pretty damn good aerials is incredibly fun, and actually pretty safe if you're not being crazy about it.
4. Counter: With the infinite Lightweight glitch, I technically know that it's almost objectively superior. In fact, Palutena's Counter kinda sucks. But I'm just not that comfortable turning off all of Palutena's speed limiters with Lightweight on. The handling on her once she's sped up like that (especially in conjunction with Superspeed) is just tricky to me, and Counter is a good crutch.

And the stages thing... what even is a good Smash stage? Maybe I've been fed gruel my whole life but I can't see where Smash 4's stage design failings lie in comparison with previous entries. What would a good stage be?

More seriously, my criteria for a good stage for Smash is: interesting platform arrangement, unobstructive hazards, a minimum of gimmicks, and that it looks cool. Sometimes gimmicks work, like with WarioWare. Most of the time, they just tend to aggravate me, though. Anything that I feel like is a distraction from the act of characters fighting bothers me, especially if it's something the stage just dumped in my lap and not something that I couldn't feel totally responsible over.

4 WiiU's stage list is pretty good, though.

 

[TheSlySoul]

To me, Duck Hunt is a good stage because the stage hazards cannot kill you. I also like Pilotwings. It is really annoying to lose a match because of a stage hazard (glares at F-Zero stage).

 

[Japanmanx3]

I've been trying yo be masochistic with Event Mode and going it in Hard difficulty regardless of the Special Requirement award. The one with Wii Fit Trainer vs. Two Wario's is insane though. To get the special award you have to beat them both in less than 45 seconds on hard difficulty. Ridiculous that one there is. Also Crazy/ Master Hand and Master Core are soooo trolly smh. I've yet to win properly without them killing me above 7.5 difficulty.

 

[GregLombardi]

To me, Duck Hunt is a good stage because the stage hazards cannot kill you. I also like Pilotwings. It is really annoying to lose a match because of a stage hazard (glares at F-Zero stage).

Yeah it is way over kill. I have a feeling I'll be making a lot of my own stages soon.

 

[Clefargle]

seems about right

true, I mean how unaware would someone have to be to expect K. Rool at this point? How many one-two time mario/kirby/zelda bosses get as much fanfare as him? Why would Sakurai include him? Because a bunch of 90's kids like his asymmetrical eyes?

edit:done got trolled

 

[georly]

More seriously, my criteria for a good stage for Smash is: interesting platform arrangement, unobstructive hazards, a minimum of gimmicks, and that it looks cool. Sometimes gimmicks work, like with WarioWare. Most of the time, they just tend to aggravate me, though. Anything that I feel like is a distraction from the act of characters fighting bothers me, especially if it's something the stage just dumped in my lap and not something that I couldn't feel totally responsible over.

It's a real shame floating platforms can't intersect solid platforms in stage maker, or you could make some pseudo fountain of dreams with more frequent platform changes

 

[Kid Ska]

Shit I totally forgot about Trophy boxes. How do you even access them?

 

[brickwalker0]

To me, Duck Hunt is a good stage because the stage hazards cannot kill you. I also like Pilotwings. It is really annoying to lose a match because of a stage hazard (glares at F-Zero stage).

This is how every stage should be treated. No stage hazard should out-right kill you.

 

[Dimmle]

Yeah, the Wii U's stages are leagues better than 3DS, to the point where I will play Smash U instead whenever possible.

Skyloft, Pilotwings, Duck Hunt, among others are super solid stages. Wuhu Island is pretty cool, too, actually. Orbital Assault takes some acclimation but it's not unreasonable after you know what areas to stay away from.

 

[emb]

Always felt Great Bay is a perfect example of the sort of stage design I miss in Smash. Lots of action on the platform with the turtle occasionally showing up/diving for some epic recoveries and loss moments. The bottom left adds safety respite with a huge risk factor given the low ceiling and small gap. No detrimental stage gimmicks or constant transitions shuttling the players about so your attention is always on the opposition and using the layout for reactionary or tactful purposes.

Too often in Smash 4, a lot of the stage hazards and transitions draw attention away from the core fighting. Nice to have a few of those for variety, but its gone a bit overboard. There is a nice selection of 'static' stages in Smash 4(and way too many transition stages) but even most of those are riddled with survival gimmicks that are quirky initially but end up getting in the way of the actual fun after several matches.

There was a pureness to the Smash 64/Melee stages that many of us still prefer.

Absolutely. Great Bay is a fantastic example. I miss that about Smash 64; literally every stage was fun, even if not good for competition. Brinstar wasn't the greatest, but all the others were fantastic. Stage design feels like it shifted gradually from the beginning of the series to the newer ones to become more and more heavy handed. Like we're not going to have fun with the stage unless hazards force it.

Smash Wii U's stage list isn't too bad though.

seems about right

Smash Tour is okay with people, but it seems to be serving no one. It's attempting to be Smash Party-- which essentially means bridging the gap between Smash and the casual "do-you-have-Mario-Kart-for-the-Wii" sister or brother-in-law who has never been able to grasp Smash in the first place, but unlike Mario Party, where everyone can win no matter their actual skill with the game, Smash Tour still comes down to "who's the best at Smash Bros?" Unless everyone is within the same range of skill, there's going to be one player dominating because they are just basically good at Smash Bros.

It doesn't offer the euphoric highs and hilarious lows of Mario Party or Kart that will rope in your grandpa and his new wife and it won't hook a dedicated Smash player, so... I don't know. It's a fun distraction for a bit. I'd be interested in playing it with three highly competitive people just to see how dickish it gets.

I played Tour with three other players of about equal skill, and it was actually kind of a blast.

 

[TheSlySoul]

This is how every stage should be treated. No stage hazard should out-right kill you.

I can forgive Mario Circuit Brawl a bit because it is clearly projected. Same with 3D Land.
I feel like stage hazards that can kill should be precluded from Solo mode.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I seriously don't get why Adventure Mode is so liked, especially more than SSE.

It's the definition of half-baked, for me. You got three neat side-scrolling levels, but then it basically abandons that in favor of more or less Event Matches. And it's the same thing, and you have to do it with every character. It got stale.

SSE was way better, imo. It wasn't perfect, but it was way more varied, and was a fun way to unlock everyone if you enjoy the SP-style of Smash. And people, when Brawl came out, acted like it seriously detracted a ton from the rest of the game, but Brawl was about equal to 4 in terms of the main content, and 4 doesn't have anything near SSE-levels.

 

[SoraanTribal]

Outside of playing with a friend, is there any way to do like a 1v1 match in For Fun mode? I'm not a big fan of 4 player matches and that's the only ones I could get into in For Fun. For Glory is too intimidating watching people play who are super great, and I'm still pretty new to Smash (or at least I have limited play experience with the series prior to this game).

 

[Shamrock7r]

Ha, you mean with Sonic? I think I'm starting to realize that I have to actually use his speed for defense rather than just for offense.

Yea but understand that this is why People can't stand playing against sonic players. It's just in his nature to be very spacy/campy and most matches go to the last minute

 

[Timeaisis]

To me, Duck Hunt is a good stage because the stage hazards cannot kill you. I also like Pilotwings. It is really annoying to lose a match because of a stage hazard (glares at F-Zero stage).

See this is why I love F-Zero. I've always been fond of stages of extremes.

However, I do not like these for 1v1 at all. But FFA items on, stages like this have always been my favorite. God, I miss Big Blue.

Apart from that, yea Pilotwings is really good. I like Wuhu a lot, too. Even though the platforms move a lot, but they are pretty predictable.

I think in Smash 4 more than any other game in the series the stages were designed for one of two play mdoes:

1v1 and Crazy, party mode FFA, for better or for worse.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Yea but understand that this is why People can't stand playing against sonic players. It's just in his nature to be very spacy/campy and most matches go to the last minute

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've determined. Still, he's the only character I can play... well, at least for now. I'll have to see if any other clicks.

 

[Dimmle]

I played Tour with three other players of about equal skill, and it was actually kind of a blast.

I'll have to try this. Something about a party game intended for people who are all heavily invested in video games seems antithetical to Sakurai's philosophy. I bet it's super fun, though.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Honestly, the worst stage elements in 3DS and 4 for me aren't the obvious killer hazards, but the levels with quick platforms that either fall out, or pull up, and can easily catch you and drag you off-screen. Or when the screen scrolls too fast.

Like during the Kalos League transition, those two platforms fly up so quickly quite a few times I got dragged up with them. Spirit Tracks is also horrible about this, the screen basically scrolls over so you barely have any room on the train.

I think I would've liked ST on the Wii U, because I feel like with a bigger screen, the blast zones would be further away and it wouldn't be as cramped.

 

[chaosblade]

I seriously don't get why Adventure Mode is so liked, especially more than SSE.

It's the definition of half-baked, for me. You got three neat side-scrolling levels, but then it basically abandons that in favor of more or less Event Matches. And it's the same thing, and you have to do it with every character. It got stale.

SSE was way better, imo. It wasn't perfect, but it was way more varied, and was a fun way to unlock everyone if you enjoy the SP-style of Smash. And people, when Brawl came out, acted like it seriously detracted a ton from the rest of the game, but Brawl was about equal to 4 in terms of the main content, and 4 doesn't have anything near SSE-levels.

SSE, Adventure Mode, and Smash Run are all horrible because Smash's gameplay does not lend itself well to a platforming game. I find all of them to be tedious and generally not fun.

Smash Tour is chaotic as hell, but at least the game mode doesn't revolve around doing things Smash is bad it. That's why I'd say it's the best of the bunch (when playing with real people, not CPUs).

 

[random25]

Outside of playing with a friend, is there any way to do like a 1v1 match in For Fun mode? I'm not a big fan of 4 player matches and that's the only ones I could get into in For Fun. For Glory is too intimidating watching people play who are super great, and I'm still pretty new to Smash (or at least I have limited play experience with the series prior to this game).

For Fun can be played by 2, 3 or 4 players. |When 2 players in and no other player joins within a minute the room closes. It's just not controllable, though.

 

[Dimmle]

Smash Tour is chaotic as hell, but at least the game mode doesn't revolve around doing things Smash is bad at.

This is a great point. In this respect, Smash 4 is the first game doin' it right since Smash 64.

It's just not a platformer.

 

[Timeaisis]

SSE, Adventure Mode, and Smash Run are all horrible because Smash's gameplay does not lend itself well to a platforming game. I find all of them to be tedious and generally not fun.

Smash Tour is chaotic as hell, but at least the game mode doesn't revolve around doing things Smash is bad it. That's why I'd say it's the best of the bunch (when playing with real people, not CPUs).

I actually completely agree with you for once.

 

[TheSlySoul]

See this is why I love F-Zero. I've always been fond of stages of extremes.

However, I do not like these for 1v1 at all. But FFA items on, stages like this have always been my favorite. God, I miss Big Blue.

I agree with you in the case of regular Smash mode. However, it is really annoying trying to do All-Stars and then you get F-Zero and get killed by a racer.
I feel like they should have done an omega like switch and have a regular stage with no hazard option. This is the default Solo configuration. It is obviously in the program because I played Pyrosphere with no Ridley and I actually liked it.

 

[ngower]

Are there any reliable LAN adapters that aren't the Nintendo one? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

Also, I'm not reading through hundreds of pages so forgive me if this has already been asked before (actually, it has, by me!....and never answered) but do we have any sort of player's guide/tier list/etc that would help new/returning Smash players? I don't have hours a day to devote to learning the nuances of every character so I'm looking for some reading material to help me out.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Subspace with actual Nintendo enemies and Nintendo locations and Nintendo music could have been something magical. I think the bland stages would have been tolerated if Pit could run through a Mario grassland and stomp Goombas.

My favorite levels of the Subspace was the DK jungle part because it actually felt like you were running through a crossover platformer. It was Donkey Kong jungle, with Donkey Kong Music, and Mario enemies and it worked.

 

[The Bankslammer]

all stages should seek to be as perfect as gamer

 

[Lucario]

good news for people in the US who want gamecube adapters -- they release in france on the 28th, and amazon.fr is in stock and will ship to the US at a pretty reasonable price.

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B00O9QW4JQ/

Just got mine for 31USD. Since none of the stores around here seem to be restocking anytime soon, seems like a much better option than ebay.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've determined. Still, he's the only character I can play... well, at least for now. I'll have to see if any other clicks.

I mean stick with sonic if that's who you like. Personally I think you have to be a little crazy to main him lol, because I don't know how they keep their attention span going for so many long matches. I zone out quickly, which is why I am liking the 2 stock change.

Ggs man