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Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin announced for PS4/XBO/PC - April 2015

PC version was dumbed down on purpose. As someone already posted here, the new engine was built with DX11 in mind, then for some reasons they dropped DX11 on the way, leaving only DX9 support.
You can't upgrade PS3 version (with new visuals and enhancements), but you can upgrad easily PC version. A lot of games offer for free DX9 and DX11 support, if they want charge for a patch, then...

They did build the engine with DX11 and PS4/XBO in mind. That's what they said.

Just because Dark Souls II came out as DX9 only, being based on the 360 and PS3 versions does not mean they didn't build the engine with it in mind, which is all they ever said. They never promised a DX11 version. Saying it was intentionally "dumbed down" specifically for the PC is just conjecture.

You can't upgrade the PS3 version, but you certainly can give out a code to purchasers for the "Director's Cut" that happens to be available on PS4 (or hell, even PC). No one expects them to do this because it's not common practice and seems a bit crazy. It's just as crazy to give out a PC version, which also will be a different game. It's not a matter of just patching in updates. That's actually being handled with a free patch for the existing game.

It's necessary on console's it's unnecessary on PC. That's my opinion until they prove that they really couldn't make it an update(ON PC). It's not about special treatment.

What's necessary on consoles? Whatever you're talking about, why do you think they are justified in not giving free copies of the PS4/XBO versions away to existing owners, but they should feel obligated to do so on PC?

This is a director's cut version of the game. You typically don't put that out as an update of the original game... It would overwrite the old game and make it not exist anymore, which some people may not appreciate. You also typically want to sell it for money, since some amount of work went into creating it.

If you don't think it's worth the money, that's fine. I'm not entirely convinced, either. This whole stuff with PC gamers demanding free stuff that costs money elsewhere is completely ridiculous, though.
 
Because it's the same platform and not two different consoles. Again I never stated it should be free I stated it should not separate the communities.It's the same platform a year later at full price. If they charged 15 for the new content and just upgraded the existing games to the new engine it wouldn't be an issue, and from everything I've read the next gen graphics update is only bringing the new consoles to PC level graphics. So they are basically charging us for 6 player co op and new enemy placements.

It's two versions of the game, not a straight upgrade. I made a big youtube post about it recently but I think I can reiterate it here well about why the enemy placement and 6player online render it as a different, but not "improved" version. (and wholly incompatible)

New enemy layouts:
This means the difficulty of areas are now vastly different. This means the two versions of the game are no longer equivalent. One version of Heide's has a dragon infront of ornstien, one just has the giant guardians. (The placement of the dragon in the trailer leads me to believe that you have to defeat it to lower the drawbridge to ornstien, which means ornstien is now an endgame boss, because you need to get up in levels and gear to take down a guardian dragon. It also means ornstien is probably beefed up to accommodate this) the gameplay experiences will be very different between them. The Spider swarm wouldn't work on the old engine because of pathing issues (this is from the famitsu interview) it's sort of a new version of the engine, which means the old version wouldn't be compatible with the new.

Also, as for why a character transfer would be messy, your character save is also a world save. it keeps track of enemies killed in each area (as well as count), bonfire intensity, and items picked up. These are all things that the nextgen version is said to heavily modify, which means all of your world-data would be inaccurate.



6 player online:
Obviously, this wouldn't be compatible with the old engine, which is limited to 3 phantoms. Different netcode. The major thing is how it would change gameplay for coop, pvp, and covenants. Summoning for reds and cops would have to account for this, it also means that you can have more aggressive players in your game if you aren't summoning whites. Imagine walking into Sinner's Rise and theres a posse of red phantoms waiting for you. What would be worse than that? Remember the Bell Keeprs Covenant? How annoying was that with THREE phantoms on PC? Can you imagine how impossible that would be with SIX phantoms guarding that fucking bell? It's going to be goddamn impossible. What about Pilgrims of Dark? You can be invaded while running those dungeons. 1.10 is going to relax soul memory restrictions, which means more invaders, which means you can potentially be cockblocked from fighting darklurker by invasion floods! (I don't know if rat covenant would be effected by the higher online player count, actually...) But yeah like....when you see 6player online you think "Wow awesome" until you actually apply it to how the weird multiplayer and covenants ACTUALLY work in dark souls games. It's going to be COMPLETELY different because of it.


The improved graphics being tied to it kinda sucks, but the other things that go with it are like...totally a different experience from the other version of the game in several ways. You wouldn't want it to just replace the old game, because you just might want to GO BACK TO IT SOMETIMES.
 
They did build the engine with DX11 and PS4/XBO in mind. That's what they said.

Just because Dark Souls II came out as DX9 only, being based on the 360 and PS3 versions does not mean they didn't build the engine with it in mind, which is all they ever said. They never promised a DX11 version. Saying it was intentionally "dumbed down" specifically for the PC is just conjecture.

You can't upgrade the PS3 version, but you certainly can give out a code to purchasers for the "Director's Cut" that happens to be available on PS4 (or hell, even PC). No one expects them to do this because it's not common practice and seems a bit crazy. It's just as crazy to give out a PC version, which also will be a different game. It's not a matter of just patching in updates. That's actually being handled with a free patch for the existing game.



What's necessary on consoles? Whatever you're talking about, why do you think they are justified in not giving free copies of the PS4/XBO versions away to existing owners, but they should feel obligated to do so on PC?

This is a director's cut version of the game. You typically don't put that out as an update of the original game... It would overwrite the old game and make it not exist anymore, which some people may not appreciate. You also typically want to sell it for money, since some amount of work went into creating it.

If you don't think it's worth the money, that's fine. I'm not entirely convinced, either. This whole stuff with PC gamers demanding free stuff that costs money elsewhere is completely ridiculous, though.

It is necessary on consoles because according to From last gen consoles could not handle the advanced graphics nor could they handle the extra enemies and their new ai paths which they are expanding due to more available memory. Two things that the PC could do the entire time.

I did not complain when I put 400 hours on Dark Souls 1 on 360 then bought Prepare to Die Edition at full price on PC later because I knew it was on upgraded software which was capable of giving me a better experience. But this "New" game will be on the same exact PC I played the original on a year ago.

We disagree and that's fine. Gonna stop running around in circles.


It's two versions of the game, not a straight upgrade. I made a big youtube post about it recently but I think I can reiterate it here well about why the enemy placement and 6player online render it as a different, but not "improved" version. (and wholly incompatible)

New enemy layouts:
This means the difficulty of areas are now vastly different. This means the two versions of the game are no longer equivalent. One version of Heide's has a dragon infront of ornstien, one just has the giant guardians. (The placement of the dragon in the trailer leads me to believe that you have to defeat it to lower the drawbridge to ornstien, which means ornstien is now an endgame boss, because you need to get up in levels and gear to take down a guardian dragon. It also means ornstien is probably beefed up to accommodate this) the gameplay experiences will be very different between them. The Spider swarm wouldn't work on the old engine because of pathing issues (this is from the famitsu interview) it's sort of a new version of the engine, which means the old version wouldn't be compatible with the new.

Also, as for why a character transfer would be messy, your character save is also a world save. it keeps track of enemies killed in each area (as well as count), bonfire intensity, and items picked up. These are all things that the nextgen version is said to heavily modify, which means all of your world-data would be inaccurate.



6 player online:
Obviously, this wouldn't be compatible with the old engine, which is limited to 3 phantoms. Different netcode. The major thing is how it would change gameplay for coop, pvp, and covenants. Summoning for reds and cops would have to account for this, it also means that you can have more aggressive players in your game if you aren't summoning whites. Imagine walking into Sinner's Rise and theres a posse of red phantoms waiting for you. What would be worse than that? Remember the Bell Keeprs Covenant? How annoying was that with THREE phantoms on PC? Can you imagine how impossible that would be with SIX phantoms guarding that fucking bell? It's going to be goddamn impossible. What about Pilgrims of Dark? You can be invaded while running those dungeons. 1.10 is going to relax soul memory restrictions, which means more invaders, which means you can potentially be cockblocked from fighting darklurker by invasion floods! (I don't know if rat covenant would be effected by the higher online player count, actually...) But yeah like....when you see 6player online you think "Wow awesome" until you actually apply it to how the weird multiplayer and covenants ACTUALLY work in dark souls games. It's going to be COMPLETELY different because of it.


The improved graphics being tied to it kinda sucks, but the other things that go with it are like...totally a different experience from the other version of the game in several ways. You wouldn't want it to just replace the old game, because you just might want to GO BACK TO IT SOMETIMES.

Best post made describing the differences and I can see your point but my biggest issue with this was the community split(I am a PvP'er) this game hardly hits 5k concurrent users as it is and graphics updates(if any) being tied to it. DX9 dark Souls 2 will be a graveyard and if I want to continue PvP'ng I need to shell out more money and invest more time in a new character.
 
They should not release the game for PC at all(the new version)
Should just patch the original like PS360

If the "new" content is "patchable" as in without totally erased the original and reinstall totally new version. They should release it as DLC.

But if the game need to be totally erased and reinstall, then either dont release it at all or give discount for original owner.
Everyone will be angry if it is full priced game.
IMO "Price" is the problem here.
 
It is necessary on consoles because according to From last gen consoles could not handle the advanced graphics nor could they handle the extra enemies and their new ai paths which they are expanding due to more available memory. Two things that the PC could do the entire time.

I did not complain when I put 400 hours on Dark Souls 1 on 360 then bought Prepare to Die Edition at full price on PC later because I knew it was on upgraded software which was capable of giving me a better experience. But this "New" game will be on the same exact PC I played the original on a year ago.

We disagree and that's fine. Gonna stop running around in circles.

It's just not logical, though.

Just because you may have hardware that is capable of what they plan to do for this version does not explain why you expect to receive it for free.

Funny you bring up Prepare to Die Edition, which was the exact same version you played on console (assuming you got the DLC) and was actually a terrible port with a maximum of 720p and 30fps support out of the box.

I just do not see what a person's hardware has to do with expecting a big update for free. If you think you buy the game and deserve any future enhanced versions of it for free, then that logic should apply to the consoles as well.

They should not release the game for PC at all(the new version)
Should just patch the original like PS360

If the "new" content is "patchable" as in without totally erased the original and reinstall totally new version. They should release it as DLC.

But if the game need to be totally erased and reinstall, then either dont release it at all or give discount for original owner.
Everyone will be angry if it is full priced game.
IMO "Price" is the problem here.

And why is price not a problem for owners of the console versions? I probably know what your answer is going to be, but I don't expect it to make sense.
 
It's just not logical, though.

Just because you may have hardware that is capable of what they plan to do for this version does not explain why you expect to receive it for free.

Funny you bring up Prepare to Die Edition, which was the exact same version you played on console (assuming you got the DLC) and was actually a terrible port with a maximum of 720p and 30fps support out of the box.

I just do not see what a person's hardware has to do with expecting a big update for free. If you think you buy the game and deserve any future enhanced versions of it for free, then that logic should apply to the consoles as well.



And why is price not a problem for owners of the console versions? I probably know what your answer is going to be, but I don't expect it to make sense.

Agree to disagree.
 
And why is price not a problem for owners of the console versions? I probably know what your answer is going to be, but I don't expect it to make sense.

Why do From or Scamco want to rerelease for next gen console if they cant earn more money from it?

Discount is welcomed. No discount then either dont buy or wait for it.
 
Agree to disagree.

So you're telling me that you think PC players are entitled to special treatment (or, alternatively, console players do not deserve the same level of support)?

Either everyone deserves to get this new version of the game for free or no one does.

Why do From or Scamco want to rerelease for next gen console if they cant earn more money from it?

Discount is welcomed. No discount then either dont buy or wait for it.

I'll probably regret responding to someone who is actually using "Scamco" in a serious way, but, why should they not want to earn money from their work? Do you think they should be obligated to put this out for free or heavily discounted?

I'd love a discount, too, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect or demand one.
 
Has there ever been a director's cut/improved version that was made available as a patch?

Yes, it's not unprecedented.

The Witcher 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions were exactly that. Monumentally improved versions with tons of DLC available as a free update.

They're doing the same for The Witcher 3.

Even the developers of the Metro games that were remade years later gave original owners a 50% discount, so Namco Bandai asking us for full price less than a year after release for features that should have been in the original PC version is kind of shitty.
 
Yes, it's not unprecedented.

The Witcher 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions were exactly that. Monumentally improved versions with tons of DLC available as a free update.

They're doing the same for The Witcher 3.

Even the developers of the Metro games that were remade years later gave original owners a 50% discount, so Namco Bandai asking us for full price less than a year after release for features that should have been in the original PC version is kind of shitty.

Good one! The Enhanced Edition definitely seems like a pretty close comparison here.

It just shows how awesome CDProjekt Red is compared to everyone else.

For clarification, though, they will be putting out DLC for free with The Witcher 3. I doubt they plan to do an Enhanced Edition with sweeping changes like they did for TW2.

With Metro, the discounted only applied to pre-orders, which pretty much doesn't count in my book since pre-orders are generally for suckers.

"Features that should have been in the PC version" is pretty unfair, I'd say. It's pretty clear that the graphics pre-downgrade are not coming back. Whatever they are doing for this new version looks like new work.
 
so...i guess its safe to say the graphics are not up to par with the reveal trailers or the original gameplay videos....
 
The Witcher is irrelevant to the issue.

Yes, it would be cool if Bamco did this stuff for free, but they are clearly not willing. They were happy to leave DR/LI pathetic, even while funding DLC.

It's not a choice of free or paid, it's a choice of not being done at all, or paid.
 
They should not release the game for PC at all(the new version)
Should just patch the original like PS360

If the "new" content is "patchable" as in without totally erased the original and reinstall totally new version. They should release it as DLC.

But if the game need to be totally erased and reinstall, then either dont release it at all or give discount for original owner.
Everyone will be angry if it is full priced game.
IMO "Price" is the problem here.

It doesn't work as just a patch, because, as my post said, the 6player online and new enemy placements completely change everything about how you play the base game. Already we have enough info to know that area progression, boss order, invasions, and covenants will be greatly effected by these changes on fundamental levels. You realize that the enemy placements are super drastic, right? Like, we could end up having the king's other four pets show up in shaded woods. (that would be awesome, actually)

The content that IS being patched in will fix the lore, add new substantial content to the playthrough, and improve the online experience so that you can more easily connect to other players. the nextgen changes are more fundamental differences that create a new "type" of gameplay.

I'm going to be holding onto my old copy when i get the nextgen, because i'll probably go back and forth on different playthroughs. It's basically a "Remix" edition.


The Witcher is irrelevant to the issue.

Yes, it would be cool if Bamco did this stuff for free, but they are clearly not willing. They were happy to leave DR/LI pathetic, even while funding DLC.

It's not a choice of free or paid, it's a choice of not being done at all, or paid.

You...realize that there's a massive content update patch coming to currently existing versions of the game for free, right?


so...i guess its safe to say the graphics are not up to par with the reveal trailers or the original gameplay videos....

Those weren't trailers, it was all handicam recordings from demo booths. All the trailers i've seen were using the final game's graphics. The nextgen version of the game will have improvements, but it won't be a completely redone aesthetic. The updated graphics ARE in the trailer. Look at the scenes of 6 players fighting, or of the new enemy placements. It's better looking versions of the base game stuff, but it's still the original game's stuff. You aren't getting some imaginary version of the graphics that were never fleshed out beyond a two level beta demo of the game. (90% of the game is not in dark. Most of it is well lit via the natural aesthetics, such as glowing blue flowers or green poison slime, or because it's outdoors)
 
It's not a choice of free or paid, it's a choice of not being done at all, or paid.

And when presented with that choice, I for one, would at least like the option to buy it if I deem it worth my money.
 
So you're telling me that you think PC players are entitled to special treatment (or, alternatively, console players do not deserve the same level of support)?

Either everyone deserves to get this new version of the game for free or no one does.



I'll probably regret responding to someone who is actually using "Scamco" in a serious way, but, why should they not want to earn money from their work? Do you think they should be obligated to put this out for free or heavily discounted?

I'd love a discount, too, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect or demand one.

You keep saying for free...I've said plenty of times I would pay to have the current game updated. Just not full price. I don't care about PC/console parity because they are different platforms with different benefits and shortcomings as well different consumers. The reason there is a definitive edition is because of console parity.

Battlefield 4 on PC, 360/ps3 and xbone/ps4 is an example of a publisher that used the strengths of one platform(PC) and created a game that took advantage of it's hardware then ported it down to fit on weaker systems. Then when stronger systems were available ported the better PC version over to that. Something From said they were doing from the beginning(PC is the lead platform). Now we are finding out that the PC version was indeed gimped by the console versions and this new next gen version we should have gotten in the beginning is being offered to use in the worse possible way. Full price, segmented communities and no shared saves. People called this a year ago when we first found out how much the graphics suffered from previews to retail and I thought no way they would ever do that and said so many times only to be wrong.

Stop calling everyone entitled for expecting something a lot of publishers already do on this platform. it's one of the main strengths of this platform. From handled this poorly and people have the right to be upset. if you choose not to be good for you.
 
You...realize that there's a massive content update patch coming to currently existing versions of the game for free, right?
Not comparable to The Witcher content. They're even isolating rebalanced encounters for the new version with balance changes within the free patch.
 
I'll probably regret responding to someone who is actually using "Scamco" in a serious way, but, why should they not want to earn money from their work? Do you think they should be obligated to put this out for free or heavily discounted?

I'd love a discount, too, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect or demand one.

I am confused and I agree that the game should be paid from the beginning of my post.
Discount is welcomed. And yes you cant forced them to give it.

As someone who hate DLC, Namco is one of the worst publisher out there, So Scamco. But dark souls paid dlc has always been acceptable for me.
 
I really want to just...reiterate. I've combed over that trailer and I feel I have a good handle on what the updates to the graphics are. They are not much different than the current PC graphics. You aren't going to buy this for a graphics upgrade.

The reason to rebuy the game on PC is for the 6player online and the new enemy placement. All of the trailer is from the nextgen version, all of the preview images are the nextgen version. The changes aren't worth getting upset about, they are NOT significant revisions. (Unless shaded woods just gets a ton of foliage added to it or something like that)

This thread, and everywhere else, is full of complaining about the notion of graphical improvements, without even thinking of if the improvements are worth getting twisted over. It's such a big fat gobbledey goop of a Japanese company with a VERY weak English branch, and a fanbase that is constantly blades drawn. If you care about the new enemy layouts and 6player online then get that version, otherwise your current pc version will be basically everything. (And again, the online and gameplay experiences are not compatable because of the significant changes those two features make to it)


Not comparable to The Witcher content. They're even isolating rebalanced encounters for the new version with balance changes within the free patch.

Rebalance is a loose term here. It's not improved encounters, it's different encounters. Look at that Guardian Dragon infront of Ornstien's room. You think that's a balance change? That doesn't make the game more balanced. It's Special Edition enemy layout, and that's just the first change we're privy to. Every area of the game is going to feature major changes to enemy layouts. It's probably going to be FAR LESS balanced than the original. It's a separate experience entirely. We'll probably fight seven pursuer's in Dranglaec Castle, and Four of the King's Pets in the Shaded Woods or some shit. The changes are fundamental, something that you DON'T want replacing the old game. It's Type 2 stuff.
 
You keep saying for free...I've said plenty of times I would pay to have the current game updated. Just not full price. I don't care about PC/console parity because they are different platforms with different benefits and shortcomings as well different consumers. The reason there is a definitive edition is because of console parity.

Battlefield 4 on PC, 360/ps3 and xbone/ps4 is an example of a publisher that used the strengths of one platform(PC) and created a game that took advantage of it's hardware then ported it down to fit on weaker systems. Then when stronger systems were available ported the better PC version over to that. Something From said they were doing from the beginning(PC is the lead platform). Now we are finding out that the PC version was indeed gimped by the console versions and this new next gen version we should have gotten in the beginning is being offered to use in the worse possible way. Full price, segmented communities and no shared saves. People called this a year ago when we first found out how much the graphics suffered from previews to retail and I thought no way they would ever do that and said so many times only to be wrong.

Stop calling everyone entitled for expecting something a lot of publishers already do on this platform. it's one of the main strengths of this platform. From handled this poorly and people have the right to be upset. if you choose not to be good for you.

I don't see how Battlefield 4 is a valid comparison when it was released at the same time on all platforms. Of course one would expect the PC version to take advantage of the highest graphical options available. It did with Dark Souls II. PC being the platform on which they developed was not a lie. They just had to create a game that would run on consoles, and with FROM's limited resources, keeping one version dramatically different from the others doesn't sound realistic. Furthermore, it kind of kills the point of developing for PC and porting down to 360/PS3. We knew from the start that the PC version would be compromised by the 360/PS3 versions just like we know this new version will be held back by PS4/XBO. Just like all multiplatform games are.

Whatever you want this to be, FROM is positioning it as a new game. A director's cut. JackelZXA has already gone into detail about why a mere update or patch would not be appropriate. Other than CDProjekt Red, what other publishers give out enhanced edition/director's cut for free to owners of the originals? We have plenty of examples of the contrary.

I don't think there are any fundamental strengths to the PC platform that mean that this new version should be free of charge or heavily discounted while sold for full price on the other platforms. Hardware capabilities do not matter.

I highly doubt this is some grand money-grubbing conspiracy. It's far more likely that it's just a situation of last-gens versions being developed and completed. Now, a new budget was granted for PS4/XBO versions. A PC version of those new versions will now also be made available. It's all pretty simple, but with all of this outrage, it sounds like FROM should have just held the game back on PC and treated it like Rockstar is treating GTAV.
 
I really want to just...reiterate. I've combed over that trailer and I feel I have a good handle on what the updates to the graphics are. They are not much different than the current PC graphics. You aren't going to buy this for a graphics upgrade.

The reason to rebuy the game on PC is for the 6player online and the new enemy placement. All of the trailer is from the nextgen version, all of the preview images are the nextgen version. The changes aren't worth getting upset about, they are NOT significant revisions. (Unless shaded woods just gets a ton of foliage added to it or something like that)

This thread, and everywhere else, is full of complaining about the notion of graphical improvements, without even thinking of if the improvements are worth getting twisted over. It's such a big fat gobbledey goop of a Japanese company with a VERY weak English branch, and a fanbase that is constantly blades drawn. If you care about the new enemy layouts and 6player online then get that version, otherwise your current pc version will be basically everything. (And again, the online and gameplay experiences are not compatable because of the significant changes those two features make to it)

Yep the interview I posted a few pages back states the graphical updates were to bring the next gen console version to PC resolutions. They haven't mentioned any graphical updates for PC.
 
Even the developers of the Metro games that were remade years later gave original owners a 50% discount, so Namco Bandai asking us for full price less than a year after release for features that should have been in the original PC version is kind of shitty.
Where's your source that Namco Bandai will be asking the full price for the upgrade? Prices have yet to be determined.

It's entirely possible for NB to use a proper price segmentation so that existing owners of the PC version don't have to pay €60 again but only €20 for the upgrade + DLC.
 
I don't think it's some grand money making conspiracy I think it's poorly thought out/executed and puts people who already paid full price and a season pass not long ago a choice to either buy or be left behind on a version who's community will probably dead in a few weeks.
 
This is exactly the same as what console guys have to deal with, any given multiplatform game is developed with the lowest spec hardware in mind, unfortunately for whatever reason ps3 and xbox360 were the target platforms and with it, a dx9 pc version. Clearly FROM have had to go over the game again, redo textures, lighting, swap to a new form of DX, 11. Changed the maps, NPC locations (likely due to having to cut material from the original), the cherry on top is the DLC. Time and cost is involved in re-development, nothing is for free.

Splitting the PC userbase is a necessity, you cannot sync 2 different versions of the game.

I bought Darksouls 2 on PS3, so I should get it for free on PS4, right? I also own a high-end PC, maybe I could ask them for a free PC copy, since I have already paid for it?

So much condescending vibes typically come from the PC userbase towards console players all the time, perhaps a few of us in the thread need to eat a bit of that peasant pie and put our hands in our pockets for a "remaster" that the console folks have been happy to pay for this Gen.
 
Both of those are also involved in bugfixes, you reckon we should be charged for those too?

You mean like the free patch that will be distributed to owners of the current version?
 
I hope this has a unique trophy set from the PS3 version. A second Dark Souls II platinum trophy after grabbing the Bloodborne platinum would feel awesome.
 
I said it earlier, but I do not see why the PC should get special treatment in this case.

It has nothing to do with being limited in terms of hardware capabilities or technical limitations.

This is a different game to the original release of DS2 and that's how FROM is positioning it. It's a "Director's Cut" version, if you would. If you think us folks on PC deserve it simply because most of us won't have to buy new hardware to play the game, I don't see why console folks shouldn't get it for free, too. They paid the same amount for the game (probably more, actually), and could just as easily redeem a code on PS4/XBO to download the new version of the game.

There's nothing special about the PC platform that means any of us deserve this new version for free. Either all purchasers of DS2 do, or no one does.



I completely agree with this. People arguing that this should be free for PC users just because their hardware can probably support the new graphics are pretty much just arguing for this to never have been made in the first place. I'd rather have the option for it than not.

I've never argued that it should be free. I think there should be an upgrade path for PC players that is significantly less than full price because otherwise people are paying full price to get MOSTLY the same product with some adjustments which is bad. Like I said, I know that I would have not bought the game had I known there would be an improved version soon after. I would have waited for the improved version.

My issue is with if they DON'T offer an upgrade path for players who bought the game + DLC/Season pass. That is where I think there is a difference between PC and consoles. Porting a game to a whole new console and getting a version of that game for a new console is something a person could reasonably expect to have to pay full price for. Because they're being provided an entirely new product. They're no longer being offered an Xbox 360/PS3 game. They're being offered a PS4 or Xbox One game.

On PC, DX9 isn't a limiting factor to them providing the improvements they're offering now. What they're doing with the updated version COULD have been done on the DX9 version, they just didn't. The only difference for PC players is improved visuals (which we're not sure how much improved they may actually be) and the content adjustments. That's why I think it should be offered as a paid upgrade path for current owners. If it is, I won't have any issues with this. If not, then it's really screwing over the dedicated consumers.
 
Tries? 100s. What kind of people don't exist? Those who enjoy the game? I'm really amazed at the vocal hate the game gets. I really don't see why.

Any time a well loved game gets a super-hyped sequel that isn't quite as good it's going to be berated, even if it's still a great game. See also Uncharted 3.
 
I've never argued that it should be free. I think there should be an upgrade path for PC players that is significantly less than full price because otherwise people are paying full price to get MOSTLY the same product with some adjustments which is bad. Like I said, I know that I would have not bought the game had I known there would be an improved version soon after. I would have waited for the improved version.

There is no reason that PC players should be given a special upgrade path that is not available to console players.

My issue is with if they DON'T offer an upgrade path for players who bought the game + DLC/Season pass. That is where I think there is a difference between PC and consoles. Porting a game to a whole new console and getting a version of that game for a new console is something a person could reasonably expect to have to pay full price for. Because they're being provided an entirely new product. They're no longer being offered an Xbox 360/PS3 game. They're being offered a PS4 or Xbox One game.

The change in platform does not matter at all. It's a different game. A "director's cut," or "remix" or whatever you want to call it. It's not the same game as Dark Souls II. Either everyone who owns Dark Souls II should expect to get it for free (they shouldn't), or no one should. There's nothing special about the PC platform that entitles its users to receive free or discounted copies. Plenty of work will go into this new PC version, just like with the PS4/XBO versions, I don't know why you think otherwise. Also, being offered an upgrade path from one generation of consoles to the next isn't exactly a foreign concept. We saw it with quite a few cross-gen games at the start of this generation.

On PC, DX9 isn't a limiting factor to them providing the improvements they're offering now. What they're doing with the updated version COULD have been done on the DX9 version, they just didn't. The only difference for PC players is improved visuals (which we're not sure how much improved they may actually be) and the content adjustments. That's why I think it should be offered as a paid upgrade path for current owners. If it is, I won't have any issues with this. If not, then it's really screwing over the dedicated consumers.

I don't know why people are getting hung up on the rendering API. Yes, there will be graphical changes, but as JackelZXA has been explaining, and has FROM has stated in interviews, this is more about the gameplay and map changes they are making that take advantage of more powerful hardware. They are taking the original game, making some changes and mixing it up and putting it out as a new version. It's all new work. It wouldn't have happened if not for the opportunity to make a PS4/XBO version. No one should expect to get it for free or even discounted. It would be cool if an upgrade path was offered, but again, there's nothing special about the PC platform that means there should be an expectation of special treatment. It's nothing but a misplaced sense of entitlement.

Why?
They got the original unmodified cut, so actually the best version of the movies.

We may be saying the exact same thing about Dark Souls II. No one knows if these changes they are planning will make for a better game.
 
Why?
They got the original unmodified cut, so actually the best version of the movies.
So funny that this came up, I was just looking for a VHS player to watch these. I have them on VHS and wanted to see them without all of the garbage George Lucas add-ons (seriously, f* him!).

On topic: I think the situation with the PC version is a slimy move by SCAMCO. The PS4/Xbone versions of this game were planned all along, I don't see how people can argue that Scamco did not purposely gimp the original PC version in order to make their re-release more profitable. It should definitely be available as a patch/expansion-like cost and most definitely should NOT split up the community.

I have said it once and I will say it again: Namco Bandai is the WORST thing that has happened to the Souls series. Even though Namco Bandai is garbage, the genius of Miyazaki and the Souls series is still with us, but if a more reputable company had taken Scamco's place, think of how much better this series would be at this point.
 
On topic: I think the situation with the PC version is a slimy move by SCAMCO. The PS4/Xbone versions of this game were planned all along, I don't see how people can argue that Scamco did not purposely gimp the original PC version in order to make their re-release more profitable. It should definitely be available as a patch/expansion-like cost and most definitely should NOT split up the community.

Because that's not how video game development works. You're basically arguing to have had the PC version delayed until the PS4/XBO versions were ready. Maybe some people would have preferred that, but I certainly enjoyed playing the game on PC when I did.

What almost certainly happened: game was developed for PS3/360. This version was put out on PC. Once complete, work began on the PS4/XBO versions. This new version will also be put out on PC.

This time, it's not a simple port of the original game + DLC. They're taking the opportunity to make bigger changes that basically amount to a "remix." Obviously, one of their aims is to get existing players to buy it again and experience a different take on the game, but I don't agree that offering this option is slimy or greedy. You don't have to buy it. They are continuing to support the original version of the game with a big patch.
 
There is no reason that PC players should be given a special upgrade path that is not available to console players.



The change in platform does not matter at all. It's a different game. A "director's cut," or "remix" or whatever you want to call it. It's not the same game as Dark Souls II. Either everyone who owns Dark Souls II should expect to get it for free (they shouldn't), or no one should. There's nothing special about the PC platform that entitles its users to receive free or discounted copies. Plenty of work will go into this new PC version, just like with the PS4/XBO versions, I don't know why you think otherwise. Also, being offered an upgrade path from one generation of consoles to the next isn't exactly a foreign concept. We saw it with quite a few cross-gen games at the start of this generation.



I don't know why people are getting hung up on the rendering API. Yes, there will be graphical changes, but as JackelZXA has been explaining, and has FROM has stated in interviews, this is more about the gameplay and map changes they are making that take advantage of more powerful hardware. They are taking the original game, making some changes and mixing it up and putting it out as a new version. It's all new work. It wouldn't have happened if not for the opportunity to make a PS4/XBO version. No one should expect to get it for free or even discounted. It would be cool if an upgrade path was offered, but again, there's nothing special about the PC platform that means there should be an expectation of special treatment. It's nothing but a misplaced sense of entitlement.



We may be saying the exact same thing about Dark Souls II. No one knows if these changes they are planning will make for a better game.

Calling it a different game doesn't make it a different game. And just responding with "There is no reason that PC players should be given an upgrade path" to reasons why they should get an upgrade path doesn't make that reasoning valid.

If your argument is "It's a different game because they are making changes" then sure, yeah, it's a "different" game by that definition, but I think that's a poor differentiation to make. If top to bottom it's mostly the same game as opposed to a few differences, then they shouldn't be charging full price for people who already own the game. I'm not saying they can't, I'm saying it's a bad thing to do for consumers. It's bad that people who already own the game to need to pay such a high price for something they've mostly already paid for.

The PC is different from the consoles. The difference between the last gen and current gen versions of the game will likely be much larger than the difference between the DX9 and DX11 version. It's a problem of value. People going from last gen to current gen are getting a bigger improvement from their transition than people going from DX9 to DX11 will, even though the PC was already more able to achieve what FROM is providing at the original launch, and the price is the same. I think it would be awesome if they did provide a discount for owners of the previous gen versions transitioning to the current gen version. I'm not AGAINST that, but I can reasonably understand why they wouldn't do that and how it would be a significantly more challenging thing to achieve than to do the same for PC players. Me being for PC players getting an upgrade path is not the same as me being against the console players not. I just recognize it's not likely, and it's also not what I'm arguing for.
 
Because that's not how video game development works. You're basically arguing to have had the PC version delayed until the PS4/XBO versions were ready. Maybe some people would have preferred that, but I certainly enjoyed playing the game on PC when I did.

What almost certainly happened: game was developed for PS3/360. This version was put out on PC. Once complete, work began on the PS4/XBO versions. This new version will also be put out on PC.

This time, it's not a simple port of the original game + DLC. They're taking the opportunity to make bigger changes that basically amount to a "remix." Obviously, one of their aims is to get existing players to buy it again and experience a different take on the game, but I don't agree that offering this option is slimy or greedy. You don't have to buy it. They are continuing to support the original version of the game with a big patch.

This would make sense, IF they hadnt showed us the "upgraded" version first. It seems as if it was the other way around, they developed it for PS4 and then decided to release it on PS3, downgrading eveyrthing, and releasing the downgraded version also on PC with the intent of re-selling it again on PC.

I think its a very shady move, specially because it will split the community.
 
Wait, is it CONFIRMED to be full price? Official and all?

In Japan, they've listed the full price of the game on all platforms. Of course, they haven't said anything about possible discounts. I imagine it definitely won't happen in Japan, of course.

We still don't know for the rest of the world, where Bandai Namco handles publishing. I don't think we should expect anything, though.

This would make sense, IF they hadnt showed us the "upgraded" version first. It seems as if it was the other way around, they developed it for PS4 and then decided to release it on PS3, downgrading eveyrthing, and releasing the downgraded version also on PC with the intent of re-selling it again on PC.

I think its a very shady move, specially because it will split the community.

Well, that's just you choosing to buy into conspiracy theories or whatever.

It's pretty obvious what happened. They had a lighting engine that either didn't work technically or for their gameplay vision. Whatever the reason, it was removed at some point in development and it doesn't look to be coming back for this new version, either. So, no, they did not show the upgraded version first. I doubt any work was even done on this until the original release was complete. FROM isn't a very large company, after all.
 
In Japan, they've listed the full price of the game on all platforms. Of course, they haven't said anything about possible discounts. I imagine it definitely won't happen in Japan, of course.

The Japanese price is like 30% less than the original DS2 price. Based on that, this will probably be $30~40 in the US. I'm guessing $39.99
 
In Japan, they've listed the full price of the game on all platforms. Of course, they haven't said anything about possible discounts. I imagine it definitely won't happen in Japan, of course.

We still don't know for the rest of the world, where Bandai Namco handles publishing. I don't think we should expect anything, though.



Well, that's just you choosing to buy into conspiracy theories or whatever.

It's pretty obvious what happened. They had a lighting engine that either didn't work technically or for their gameplay vision. Whatever the reason, it was removed at some point in development and it doesn't look to be coming back for this new version, either. So, no, they did not show the upgraded version first. I doubt any work was even done on this until the original release was complete. FROM isn't a very large company, after all.


Look at the initial trailers and you will see the difference is huge (dare I say cross-gen). I remember, the first time I watched it, I said to myself "This cannot be running on PS3", and now with this megaton, it sure makes much more sense. You dont know if its coming back or not, they said it will have visual enhancements, I doubt they are only talking about particles/textures. We'll have to wait and see, but I can almost guarantee the new footage will look a lot like the pre-release footage.
 
The Japanese price is like 30% less than the original DS2 price. Based on that, this will probably be $30~40 in the US. I'm guessing $39.99

$39.99 definitely seems reasonable for a remastered edition's release a year after the original. I think that's what Prepare to Die Edition debuted at, too.

The price is actually surprisingly low for Japan standards. I think the original release was something like 8,500 Yen, so this is a substantial discount in a country where full-priced "complete editions" are more than standard.

Look at the initial trailers and you will see the difference is huge (dare I say cross-gen). I remember, the first time I watched it, I said to myself "This cannot be running on PS3", and now with this megaton, it sure makes much more sense. You dont know if its coming back or not, they said it will have visual enhancements, I doubt they are only talking about particles/textures. We'll have to wait and see, but I can almost guarantee the new footage will look a lot like the pre-release footage.

You can almost guarantee the new footage will look a lot like the pre-release footage when the footage that they actually have released thus far looks nothing like the pre-release footage? Where does this confidence come from?
 
$39.99 definitely seems reasonable for a remastered edition's release a year after the original. I think that's what Prepare to Die Edition debuted at, too.

The price is actually surprisingly low for Japan standards. I think the original release was something like 8,500 Yen, so this is a substantial discount in a country where full-priced "complete editions" are more than standard.



You can almost guarantee the new footage will look a lot like the pre-release footage when the footage that they actually have released thus far looks nothing like the pre-release footage? Where does this confidence come from?

From the announcement trailer, it seems to me that some scenes do have an improved lighting and others dont, since I have not yet played DS2, I dont know what belongs to DLC content and what doesnt, I do believe the footage will be similar, but will have to wait for gameplayfootage.

IF it does look like what they show on the bad parts of the trailer, thats even worse, charging full price for sunbeams mostly (thats what the trailer shows the most).
 
From the announcement trailer, it seems to me that some scenes do have an improved lighting and others dont, since I have not yet played DS2, I dont know what belongs to DLC content and what doesnt, I do believe the footage will be similar, but will have to wait for gameplayfootage.

IF it does look like what they show on the bad parts of the trailer, thats even worse, charging full price for sunbeams mostly (thats what the trailer shows the most).

But I thought the big issue that so many seem to be annoyed about is that they have the gall to charge PC players for a graphical upgrade. How would the lack of a graphical upgrade be somehow "even worse," then?

Shouldn't you be happy now that there's no reason to buy the new version, since apparently the gameplay/map/enemy changes they mention are not worth considering according to many?
 
But I thought the big issue that so many seem to be annoyed about is that they have the gall to charge PC players for a graphical upgrade. How would the lack of a graphical upgrade be somehow "even worse," then?

Shouldn't you be happy now that there's no reason to buy the new version, since apparently the gameplay/map/enemy changes they mention are not worth considering according to many?

What's going on is that people don't realize how significant the enemy changes and 6 player are to the game. They think graphics are what you're getting it for, and that the other stuff is just "it makes it better right? Whatever" and then they don't put more thought into it.

I feel like I didnt realize it until a day of doing nothing but obsessing over the news and trailer/screenshots what was actually going on, and that's partly because of poor messaging.

People are just going to be all CHARGING FOR GRAPHICS WHAT when it's not, but From didn't TELL them. It'll probably take a while before it becomes common knowledge.

Errybody:
PC DX11 gets minor changes to graphics, and major changes to game balance with new enemy layouts and 6 player online. Everything else is getting added for free to DX9

there now no one will confuse anymore :)

(Sadly, it is the most confusing)
 
Am I the only one thinking that the "enemy changes" have a great potential of being some lazy placement of more powerful mobs on certain places that were boring before?

For example (actually the only example I could see from the trailer) - we see in the video that there is a dragon now on a platform before Ornstein.
IMHO it doesn't really fit there. It's just a circular platform with a dragon slapped on it instead of a guardian.
Compare it's placement and game mechanics with the Undead Parish DkS1 dragon for example.

Heide's tower will still be a pretty boring place , no matter how much dragons you slap on it...
I kinda hope they also expand "problematic levels" as well, giving them more things to do and not just try to make them "interesting" with difficult mobs... it's only a relase trailer though, I really hope things get improved in the end because some areas just feel that they are only 50% done in the core game.
 
Am I the only one thinking that the "enemy changes" have a great potential of being some lazy placement of more powerful mobs on certain places that were boring before?

For example (actually the only example I could see from the trailer) - we see in the video that there is a dragon now on a platform before Ornstein.
IMHO it doesn't really fit there. It's just a circular platform with a dragon slapped on it instead of a guardian.
Compare it's placement and game mechanics with the Undead Parish DkS1 dragon for example.

Heide's tower will still be a pretty boring place , no matter how much dragons you slap on it...
I kinda hope they also expand "problematic levels" as well, giving them more things to do and not just try to make them "interesting" with difficult mobs... it's only a relase trailer though, I really hope things get improved in the end because some areas just feel that they are only 50% done in the core game.

Putting a Dragon there is actually interesting because it changes the lore of the area. (Also, they add the dragon sky effect, from dragon shrine, in a lighter effect)

The Lore Effect, The Dragon is now standing between you and Old Dragon Slayer. The Cathedral of Blue's drawbridge is pulled up. This could mean that they've rewritten the area in that version so that the narrative is that Dragonrider just SHOWED UP with Dragons and wrecked Heide's, and drove the Old Dragon Slayer into hiding. When you fight Old Dragon Slayer he has a weird limp, and some people think he may be a fake. This is super interesting, because it means the person under that armor is either Ornstien in such an old, injured, and decayed state that he can no longer even fight a dragon, or that it's a fake, wearing his armor and is actually a coward.

It also means that, with Scholar of the First Sin, there might be a narrative element added to Heide's that gives it some importance to the story.


THAT is exciting. it's interesting and recontextualizes the area's narrative and changes an entire boss from one thing into another without actually changing the boss (as far as we know)
 
^ What you say is nice in terms of lore but in terms of gameplay it's still a dragon slapped on a platform. That's like copy/pasting a swarm of enemies in an area to "make it more challenging".
Personally I won't defend FROM for making lazy changes like that just because it could potentially add to the lore (which still assumes that there is extra events/items/dialogue to support said new lore , just like you pointed out).
IMHO there is still a 50-50% chance this is all BS changes , doesn't take much thought to add some kind of relevant mob in an area , call it "director's cut" , change nothing else and leave people speculate/argue till next decade - that actually works quite well.

Having said all that this is just pure speculation based on 2 seconds from a trailer. Maybe there is a whole story for that dragon before he goes there - maybe he just waits there - maybe he won't even be in the final game .

Though I am disappointed in FROM for the DkS2 fiasco , I will be getting the "new super wow version" for my PS4... crappy or not DkS2 was for me the most interesting game I played in that period of time.
 
^ What you say is nice in terms of lore but in terms of gameplay it's still a dragon slapped on a platform. That's like copy/pasting a swarm of enemies in an area to "make it more challenging".
Personally I won't defend FROM for making lazy changes like that just because it could potentially add to the lore (which still assumes that there is extra events/items/dialogue to support said new lore , just like you pointed out).
IMHO there is still a 50-50% chance this is all BS changes , doesn't take much thought to add some kind of relevant mob in an area , call it "director's cut" , change nothing else and leave people speculate/argue till next decade - that actually works quite well.

Having said all that this is just pure speculation based on 2 seconds from a trailer. Maybe there is a whole story for that dragon before he goes there - maybe he just waits there - maybe he won't even be in the final game .

Though I am disappointed in FROM for the DkS2 fiasco , I will be getting the "new super wow version" for my PS4... crappy or not DkS2 was for me the most interesting game I played in that period of time.

Hey, lazy is a strong word. We don't know the quality of these changes, I'm just laying out the lore implications of that one change. When Souls is good, it's when lore and enemy placement are working in sync. (Something they managed to pull off again in major ways in the DLC's)

As for Track Record, DS2 had a ton of problems, and a lot of it was probably because the scope was too big (make a game twice the length of DS1, make a game with several individual spokes that end in their own big boss, like demons souls) and it was something the new director probably HAD to cut his teeth on to know how to lead a team properly.

The DLC shows, to me at least (especially shulva, especially elleum loyce) that they've learned a lot, and have a better grasp on stronger enemy placement, better lore writing in items, and just better storytelling in general. all 3 of those stories, when you read into them, are pretty interesting, much more than the main game, probably more than most of the world stories of demons souls and I'm really excited to see them take those lessons and put them back into the main game. even the last gen version will be interesting, because of the adjusted lore and new story. (Possibly new areas, if dataminers are to be believed)

The change to Heide's of making it Dragon Infested, Dragons in the skies, Dragon on the ground. Possibly suggesting that the ruins are as busted as they are because of the dragons, rather than just "theyre oooollld". It seems like the goal of this is to....fix it. When talking, in the Famitsu article, about the new enemy layouts for the nextgen/DX11 version, and going into detail on their thought process behind it, they call it Director's Cut.

With a Dragonrider in the tower of flame, and an Old Dragon Slayer in a closed off Chapel...that's some careful changes. The Dragon will probably be on the one platform, it may have a new attack behavior even to give it that "dragon on the bridge" feeling. I feel like it's likely to be the only active dragon in the area, because it is on the platform that leads to the optional boss, and they probably want the critical path to be doable via offline play, with the big optional bosses of areas actually being reinforced as a "Come back later" kind of thing. We know that they're changing every area in larger and lesser ways, depending on the area, and I'm super pumped to see what's going to be around every corner, come April.
 
This guy from Reddit had some hands on time with the game at PSX:

The Playstation Experience is going on right now, and what was at the Bandai Namco booth is a working copy of Scholar of the First Sin.

What was on the floor was the full game. The save file started at the beginning of the game, which is baffiling since there wasn't anything new readily apparent. Luckily no one was playing thanks-to-Bloodbourne so I had enough time to speed run in 30 minutes.

Bosses played in order -> Last Giant -> Pursuer -> Dragonrider -> Old Dragonslayer.

Press Media Souls: With +10 Flamberge and +10 Drakekeeper Sword, Watchdragon Parma

Spoiler:,
Full +10 Faraam Set, Ring of Blades, Life Ring, Third Dragon.

All DLC keys are included in inventory.

Graphics resemble the E3 2013 Gameplay Trailers. Torches actually have dynamic lighting now! Woohoo! Most noticeable when walking in from the Cardinal Tower bonfire to Last Giant, and with lit torch from Majula to Heide.

Spoiler:
Weird lack of Ruin Sentinel boss fight. Fog door was there, but when phasing through, summoned Bellclaire "returned to their world." and no sentinels up in my face. No soul either. Working as intended From?

No dragon in Heide's prior to fighting Ornstein. NG+ content?

Will update tomorrow for the second day, hopefully I'll have more time to get to Rotten or Iron King and see more content.

Edit 1: Remembered one more spoilery thing. Also super tired. Will take pics to the point of possibly being kicked out. :D

Not sure if this guy ever played the PC version so can't say if his graphic comparison was only based on being on console or if it is actually pre-downgrade level.
 
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