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[AniHawk]

And they're usually shooting at you, or would be shooting at you if they saw you. What the hell do people expect Drake to do? "Bruh, I'm a pacifist, go ahead and shoot me"?

nathan drake's existence is strange. he is supposed to be an everyman, or at least super relatable, yet i have yet to meet a single person who graduated from treasure hunting college with a degree in treasure hunting after having written a thesis on treasure hunting. he's not indiana jones, a man who lives in a lost, more rugged time who wants to preserve history. he's not john mcclane, a man who has a lot of skill but is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. nathan drake is supposed to be somewhat goofy and a little roguish. he swings his arms wildly while jumping but is still a hit with the ladies and is quick with a quip. he's never in the wrong place at the wrong time because he puts himself in the situation he's in. he's hunting treasure presumably for himself, and the thrill of it, so he's not exactly relatable either (he doesn't exist in our world, nor would he as a normal everyman type).

he works better as a villain. he's actually way more interesting this way. imagine a globetrotting adventurer who kills everyone who gets in his way for the thrill of it while joking with his cronies at every opportunity. someone who doesn't think what he's doing is really all that wrong. that's a lot more compelling as someone to root against than someone i'm supposed to sympathize with, or influence their actions.

elena is the better everyman in the series. she has a more grounded reason for doing the things she does. an investigative journalist - fantastic! that makes sense in our world in how she might get caught up in something bigger than herself. she might even make weary quips about how she's way in over her head this time. of course, the game would need to be different too. the shooting aspect is a major distraction from what the tone is trying to set up. the games should be more puzzley and platformy with far less emphasis on direct human conflict. it would make the moments with people a lot more meaningful too.

that's what i thought worked well in the last of us. not only was joel unrepentantly a killer, it made sense. there was some added weight too in that we knew what could have led him to his life twenty years after the outbreak. more than that, the world is mean and ugly and everyone's against each other. so there it makes sense it's a shooter.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Personally, I believe he should take that criticism and use it to make a better game. There's absolutely NO FUCKING NEED to have 15 or more enemies in a shut off area attacking you one at at time! They're all fearless! They see one dude take out 14 other guys, and they just keep coming! The building is falling down around them, and they're worried more about shooting Drake than escaping! They never run out of bullets! They rarely flank! They take a hit, and instead of running away, THEY CHARGE DRAKE!

The thing I liked about TLOU is that it eschews this 'for the most part'. There are still a ton of enemies if you alert them, but there's the option for the majority of the game to avoid them completely. Metal Gear can fall into the same category, you don't HAVE to murder everyone and can slip by them all if you wish. Drake isn't given a choice, and instead is forced into a shooting arena with very little skill involved.

If they want to have gunfights, I don't mind them, but don't have guys constantly spawning all the fucking time. Make them more intense instead of drawn out. Make them more 'cinematic' and have the enemies 'interactive' instead of running to cover and shooting you. Give you more options to avoid the fight or ways to take out a bunch of them all at once so you don't have to fight them all at once (which would totally fit into the Uncharted world). I loved exploring the world, and the story, and finding treasure, and finding inventive ways using stealth and otherwise to take out enemies. Fighting wave 3 out of wave 5 of the teleporting motherfuckers who have way too much health and can kill you easily 'AND NOT GIVE YOU A CHOICE OUT OF THE FIGHT' is super fucking boring.

To me, Drake is an explorer and treasure hunter, who they've characterized as the 'every man'. Well, last time I fucking checked, we're not all goddamn Rambo.

PS Fuck you, Druckmann

I think you need a stiff drink and a hospital appointment to check your blood pressure.

 

[Meffer]

The "it's a game" excuse doesn't really work when your game tries so desperately to emulate movies.

I'm sorry, but you're post made me laugh out loud and woke up my cats.

 

[hateradio]

I don't like his point. It's not that straightforward comparing a few scenes to every other section of the game where it turns to a shooting gallery.

Less violence, more graphic sexuality please. I find the lack of sweaty thrusting unrealistic.

Yes, Sully + Drake finally.

 

[Cyrano]

And yet, when games are made so that you get one-shot killed, we'll have another bunch of whiners and complainers about how the game mechanics suck. Not everyone who plays video games are core players. Some just want in on the casual fun, the highs of which are usually achieved by killing a bunch of mooks while you're sprinting and running around like a goddamn action hero.

Ironically, most action heroes don't tend to actually visibly kill a lot of people. Typically only the big bad or the big bad's mooks. Though they do tend to kill a lot of people via collateral damage by exploding millions of dollars worth of (likely) lived-in property.

So you know. Maybe the bad guys just disintegrate because they didn't die. The whole world is actually taking place in Abstergo or something.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

"Ignore NeoGAF as much as you can."

...Huh.

I guess I could be mad, but I don't have a dog in the fight as I haven't purchased any Uncharted games.

I do wonder why people act as if their product should be devoid of critique or discussion when framed in terms they don't approve of, but whatever.

vidyagaemz r serius buzinez.

 

[Cyrano]

Yes, Sully + Drake finally.

Would be fucking radical. Their final scene can be a fistfight on a submarine!

 

[-griffy-]

The majority of that stuff other than shooting at things is done with quick time events so that's another discussion but,

That's not even remotely true. The games are well regarded in part because they actually let you play the exciting moments in regular gameplay instead of just watching them happen and waiting for a button press. They are full of the exact type of Indiana Jones-type moments, using Uncharted 2 alone, whether it's the opening on the wrecked train, running and leaping off just as it falls over the edge, coming down an alley and being chased by a truck as it crashes and flips and you barely make it out in one piece, playing cat and mouse with a tank as it rumbles around and destroys a Nepalese village, the entirety of the train level, beating down bad guys as the building you're in collapses, or this entire sequence. All moments where you are in complete control in the game's regular gameplay space, and all moments that wear their adventure movie inspiration clearly on their sleeve.

for the actual action parts where you are fighting, you can make these action sequences equal tense and exciting with a few guys, you don't have to have 30 guys it's about finding the right balance. Indiana Jones movies are fucking exciting and Indiana very rarely fights anyone. Mostly he's running away because he's not trying to engage 40 dudes because that's suicide.

Action is about movement and excitement not about the act of killing. You don't have to be killing dudes to have fun. If they really wanted to make it like an Indiana Jones movie, they'd focus on a bunch of different exciting sequences not manshooting arenas.

Again, trying to directly compare the number of enemies killed in Indiana Jones to Uncharted is kind of missing the point. It's the tone of the violence that compares favorably to Indy.

Naughty Dog obviously wanted to make a shooter, they obviously wanted to make one where it was exciting and over the top and fun and challenging while making Nathan just strong enough that he won't go down and punish the player with one shot. Whether you want a game with less shooting or not is kind of a different discussion than whether the tone of the violence in the game is contradictory to the character.

 

[Kageshinzo]

Because even if they did make it one shot kills, they'd still make manshooting arenas just like they did in the Last of Us.

Which is what an action-adventure TPS is about. If you want a tense, cerebral one-on-one game that focuses on survival because getting one-shot gets you killed right away, then make a survival action-horror game, or even a stealth-oriented one. For most people, Uncharted is all about the adrenaline Hollywood blockbuster-caliber action with all the explosions and bullets and cheesy one-liners and that's what people got.

 

[Nafai1123]

This thread is proof that Druckmann should ignore NeoGAF as much as possible.

 

[Kageshinzo]

Ironically, most action heroes don't tend to actually visibly kill a lot of people. Typically only the big bad or the big bad's mooks. Though they do tend to kill a lot of people via collateral damage by exploding millions of dollars worth of (likely) lived-in property.

So you know. Maybe the bad guys just disintegrate because they didn't die. The whole world is actually taking place in Abstergo or something.

Which decade are you talking about? Because pulp-action heroes in the '80s and early '90s totally rack up the body count. Rambo, Commando, True Lies, King Solomon's Mines, Indiana Jones...they have main characters who wouldn't bat an eye mowing down squads of enemies trying to kill them. It's only because movies have a certain time limit and narrative that the body count is not as big as a video game.

 

[unround]

nathan drake's existence is strange. he is supposed to be an everyman, or at least super relatable, yet i have yet to meet a single person who graduated from treasure hunting college with a degree in treasure hunting after having written a thesis on treasure hunting. he's not indiana jones, a man who lives in a lost, more rugged time who wants to preserve history. he's not john mcclane, a man who has a lot of skill but is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. nathan drake is supposed to be somewhat goofy and a little roguish. he swings his arms wildly while jumping but is still a hit with the ladies and is quick with a quip. he's never in the wrong place at the wrong time because he puts himself in the situation he's in. he's hunting treasure presumably for himself, and the thrill of it, so he's not exactly relatable either (he doesn't exist in our world, nor would he as a normal everyman type).

he works better as a villain. he's actually way more interesting this way. imagine a globetrotting adventurer who kills everyone who gets in his way for the thrill of it while joking with his cronies at every opportunity. someone who doesn't think what he's doing is really all that wrong. that's a lot more compelling as someone to root against than someone i'm supposed to sympathize with, or influence their actions.

elena is the better everyman in the series. she has a more grounded reason for doing the things she does. an investigative journalist - fantastic! that makes sense in our world in how she might get caught up in something bigger than herself. she might even make weary quips about how she's way in over her head this time. of course, the game would need to be different too. the shooting aspect is a major distraction from what the tone is trying to set up. the games should be more puzzley and platformy with far less emphasis on direct human conflict. it would make the moments with people a lot more meaningful too.

that's what i thought worked well in the last of us. not only was joel unrepentantly a killer, it made sense. there was some added weight too in that we knew what could have led him to his life twenty years after the outbreak. more than that, the world is mean and ugly and everyone's against each other. so there it makes sense it's a shooter.

This is an excellent post, agreed pretty much entirely.

 

[Extra Sauce]

His Neogaf reference is funny but his arguments are incoherent. Comparing ludonarrative dissonance to "shadows that are not there in movies" or whatever the fuck? And his Indiana Jones comparison makes it seem like he is missing the point.

 

[Koyuga]

It would nice to at least have the option of not having to murder every person Drake comes across.

 

[Cyrano]

Which decade are you talking about? Because pulp-action heroes in the '80s and early '90s totally rack up the body count. Rambo, Commando, True Lies, King Solomon's Mines, Indiana Jones...they're characters who wouldn't bat an eye mowing down squads of enemies trying to kill them. It's only because movies have a certain time limit and narrative that the body count is not as big as a video game.

And even in the movies you mentioned the destruction of the big bad's base is implication of their end, aside from the death of the big bad themselves. Those wide pan shots over the "action hero decimation".

Also, the fact that the movies have a certain time limit probably tells you a lot about how long a human really wants to be in contact with those levels of violence (particularly after their decline due partially to desensitization and partially to saturation). Videogames have normalized it to a pretty disturbing degree, given we aren't seeing endless Jack Thompson silliness all the time.

I think I'm on board with dumb shootin/killin dudes as long as it isn't given the pretense of being in the "real" world. Use Matrix-style bullshit to just show us it's all a dream if it's patently ridiculous at the beginning. Or even better, use the Call of Juarez Gunslinger's "that's not how the story goes!" rewind game over feature that gives the bullshit a played-up sensitivity, making it seem as if it could be real, despite the narrator.

 

[-griffy-]

His Neogaf reference is funny but his arguments are incoherent. Comparing ludonarrative dissonance to "shadows that are not there in movies" or whatever the fuck? And his Indiana Jones comparison makes it seem like he is missing the point.

.

Completely missing his point on both counts. Well lit nighttime scenes in movies are a conceit audiences accept in order to buy into the fiction. It's the conceit audiences make that is the comparison, not the technical aspect of lighting. An action scene featuring 30 enemies in a videogame is a conceit players accept in order to feel an adequate amount of danger and challenge in order to buy into the fantasy of playing as the character.

Similarly, it's the tone of the violence in Indiana Jones that is the point of comparison, not the amount.

 

[kaching]

I do wonder why people act as if their product should be devoid of critique or discussion when framed in terms they don't approve of, but whatever.

That's really not what he means - he's saying that at some point you have to realize you can't please everyone (most certainly not on NeoGAF), decide what kind of game you want to make and try as best you can to thread the needle.

 

[jay]

.

Why is he arguing about the tone of violence and not the amount when the criticisms of Uncharted focus on the amount?

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Treasure hunting for treasure will evil powers that makes people immortal, against many evildoers who will wield such a power to destroy mankind or to do evil with it takes a special kind of hero. A hero who wont hesitate to pull that trigger and stop these evil assholes from killing countless others. Every bad guy Drake kills he is saving 2. If he was the "everyday man" some people want him to be, he would have got his ass killed and who knows how many innocents would have suffered because of it.

 

[Freshmaker]

Maybe it's because people identify with Drake more than your typical protagonist so the killing feels more out of place?

It has more to do with Drake suddenly caring about killing people in cut scenes when he never does anywhere else in the game. Creates a jarring conflict in how the character's being portrayed.

It's like a subliminal pro Libertarian message.

 

[-griffy-]

Why is he arguing about the tone of violence and not the amount when the criticisms of Uncharted focus on the amount?

Because the criticism of the amount of violence is that is it in direct contradiction to the nature of the character, when the tone of the violence shows that it fits right in line with the character, accepting the conceits of being a videogame.

 

[Zafir]

The context of every Uncharted game suggests that you will be killing lots of dudes.

Not really, the context suggests Drake is a treasure hunter, not a killer. Every game starts out with you following treasure. The first one you were following the diary that Nate found leading to a lost city of gold, the second one you started off stealing a lamp(and the game does a good job of trying to nudge you towards stealthing through that section) to uncover a map leading to treasure. Neither of that lasts very long, though.

By all means there may be some killing, that's not a problem. It's just when it's mainly killing, despite the goal apparently being treasure hunting it gets a bit hard to swallow for me, personally.

Last of Us has a lot of killing as well, but it makes a lot more sense for there to be.

This thread is proof that Druckmann should ignore NeoGAF as much as possible.

What, because some people on the message board have an opinion on something which is different from his/other people on the same boards opinion?

The laughable thing is I see more people defending him than questioning, which makes your comment a bit silly.

He may not agree with the idea, that's fine. At least listening to the opinion makes people think about their creations a bit, and lets them ask themselves whether that's what they want to be portraying to the audience, whether they could improve at all and so on. Even if they come to the conclusion that they're okay with it, it doesn't hurt to read, you just have to accept that some times, people have a different opinion or a different take on it.

 

[-griffy-]

Not really, the context suggests Drake is a treasure hunter, not a killer. Every game starts out with you following treasure.

The first game starts with you uncovering a casket in a boat with Elena, and within minutes has pirates approaching and you asking Elena if she knows how to fire a gun, suggesting this is a regular occurrence for him. The character is literally introduced as a globetrotting treasure hunter who guns down badguys that are trying to kill you and take your treasure.

 

[KennyL]

I'm not asking to take away the shooting part, I'm asking for better context.

Shooting a wave of people in the middle of a burning building that's going to clasp any moment, for example, is ludicrous.

Constantly trying to stop Nathan from getting the MacGuffin every single way while sacrificing hundreds of lives and resources is asinine because it would be far better to just let him find the damn thing and take it from him in the end.

OK OK fine, it's just a videogame and it's just a game about shooting so you gotta shoot and have fun. That's all good except that Uncharted shooting is NEVER FUN. It's feels crappy and enemy encounters are the same dumb wave shit every single time. It's just not good man. If youre fine with this past gen mediocre stuff, then I'm sorry but you gotta step side from game design discussion for the good of the whole medium.

 

[Revolutionary]

Wow, really well said point by Neil. Going to have to give this thing a full watch now.

Oh and ignoring (most of) GAF is always good advice.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

"Ignore NeoGAF as much as you can."

...Huh.

I guess I could be mad, but I don't have a dog in the fight as I haven't purchased any Uncharted games.

I do wonder why people act as if their product should be devoid of critique or discussion when framed in terms they don't approve of, but whatever.

vidyagaemz r serius buzinez.

He explains very well why videogames shouldn't be criticized for ludonarrative dissonance he doesn't just say 'Fucking Neogaf' and he obviously meant it jokingly, it's already been said that a lot of developers trawl the OTs and given how utterly rude some people on this forum can be, often without even playing the game, I would definitely recommend ignoring it.

Case in point is the AC series, there is a ridiculous amount of hate for those games as if they're personally offensive. If I was an AC dev I wouldn't go near this place because it's infuriating enough with no connection to the game.

It's not about taking criticism it's about the validity of the criticism.

I also don't understand your last sentence, it just seems a bit silly.

 

[deim0s]

Wow! I thought Nathan Drake being a serial murderer is just a GAF joke... smh.

 

[staticneuron]

nathan drake's existence is strange. he is supposed to be an everyman, or at least super relatable, yet i have yet to meet a single person who graduated from treasure hunting college with a degree in treasure hunting after having written a thesis on treasure hunting. he's not indiana jones, a man who lives in a lost, more rugged time who wants to preserve history. he's not john mcclane, a man who has a lot of skill but is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. nathan drake is supposed to be somewhat goofy and a little roguish. he swings his arms wildly while jumping but is still a hit with the ladies and is quick with a quip. he's never in the wrong place at the wrong time because he puts himself in the situation he's in. he's hunting treasure presumably for himself, and the thrill of it, so he's not exactly relatable either (he doesn't exist in our world, nor would he as a normal everyman type).

he works better as a villain. he's actually way more interesting this way. imagine a globetrotting adventurer who kills everyone who gets in his way for the thrill of it while joking with his cronies at every opportunity. someone who doesn't think what he's doing is really all that wrong. that's a lot more compelling as someone to root against than someone i'm supposed to sympathize with, or influence their actions.

elena is the better everyman in the series. she has a more grounded reason for doing the things she does. an investigative journalist - fantastic! that makes sense in our world in how she might get caught up in something bigger than herself. she might even make weary quips about how she's way in over her head this time. of course, the game would need to be different too. the shooting aspect is a major distraction from what the tone is trying to set up. the games should be more puzzley and platformy with far less emphasis on direct human conflict. it would make the moments with people a lot more meaningful too.

that's what i thought worked well in the last of us. not only was joel unrepentantly a killer, it made sense. there was some added weight too in that we knew what could have led him to his life twenty years after the outbreak. more than that, the world is mean and ugly and everyone's against each other. so there it makes sense it's a shooter.

Did you play Uncharted 3?

They didn't make it black and white as in hero/villian but Nathan is a thief. He ran away from an orphanage when he was young and stole to survive eventually running into Sullivan then seeming to steal for profits. Ever since the first game they alluded to his shady past encounters and people he has dealt with before. If you honestly believe that "his" type of profession doesn't existed in this world then that is a very sheltered view of things.

He is not considered relatable because of his profession but more because of his attitude and outlook in every situation we see him in. He is not a murderer in the sense that he kills innocent people but he is not shying away from defending himself from people who want to kill him. And if you believe that he is been living this life since an early teen you can easily see how what he does can be shrugged off by him.

I see alot of people talk about the weight of killing a person and how they must all be severely affected. Have any of you talked to someone who has returned from a battlefield? Do they lament about the people they have shot while trying to protect themselves or their comrades? In the large scale of things if you want to ponder the individual weight of a life and every possible human connection with it.... chances are you are not on a battlefield. And if you were.... you would probably be dead or will soon die. At the point of conflict between you and another person who has a gun and you know is going to shoot you, whether it is on a battlefield or on a city street, you cease to think of the person as someone with a family member, a job, responsibilities, or even ponder their education level. That person becomes an aggressor. A threat to you at that moment and time. Most reasonable people will respond with a fight or flight reaction. As if we haven't seen mass shootings in public areas or school shootings. After Anders Breivik shot several of your friends and is coming at you with a gun do you honestly think you are going to ponder his life? If you had a gun would you not shoot at him to kill? What about an army of people like that?

Yea, Uncharted may exist in a stylized version of reality, but people who honestly believe that they would turn into socrates in a life or death situation are living in another special version of reality.

The first game starts with you uncovering a casket in a boat with Elena, and within minutes has pirates approaching and you asking Elena if she knows how to fire a gun, suggesting this is a regular occurrence for him. The character is literally introduced as a globetrotting treasure hunter who guns down badguys that are trying to kill you and take your treasure.

Yes the game implies that he is familiar with this lifestyle (actually every game does), but it doesn't imply that he sets out to kill people as a main goal. Also the games are careful about drawing any moral lines because if you really pay attention drake and his friends aren't considered good either. They are just not as bad as the people they are up against.

 

[WrenchNinja]

It has more to do with Drake suddenly caring about killing people in cut scenes when he never does anywhere else in the game. Creates a jarring conflict in how the character's being portrayed.

It's like a subliminal pro Libertarian message.

He only cares when it's innocent people.

Murderous pirates, mercenaries working for a war criminal, and crazy occultist secret agents who are willing to murder kids are not innocent.

 

[jay]

Because the criticism of the amount of violence is that is it in direct contradiction to the nature of the character, when the tone of the violence shows that it fits right in line with the character, accepting the conceits of being a videogame.

You're basically just defining your position as correct.

I also do not know of movies in which the likable protagonist shows no feeling towards murder. Characters like Rambo are not that likable and when they show no remorse it makes sense. Your premise that the tone is the same is shaky, even ignoring you hang waving the enormous death toll away by saying "video game conceit."

I see alot of people talk about the weight of killing a person and how they must all be severely affected. Have any of you talked to someone who has returned from a battlefield? Do they lament about the people they have shot while trying to protect themselves or their comrades?

Yes, sometimes. The Things They Carried has a really moving story about a Vietcong soldier the author killed.

 

[aGuyInaBearSuit]

If I was a developer, I'd take everything GAF says with a grain of salt, too. If someone developed a game based on the collective desires of GAF, it would be a trainwreck.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

He only cares when it's innocent people.

Surprise, pirates, mercenaries working for a war criminal, and crazy occultist secret agents who are willing to murder kids are not innocent.

Super Hulk Neo-Nazi, Uncharted 2 ringleader dude is not really an innocent though :/

 

[-griffy-]

enemy encounters are the same dumb wave shit every single time.

Oh?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Super Hulk Neo-Nazi, Uncharted 2 ringleader dude is not really an innocent though :/

Drake didn't finish him off, yes, but he could see the Shambala Guardians coming for Lazaravic who did in fact kill the guy.

 

[DogMeat77]

Well, he's not wrong.

 

[dan2026]

It comes of as strange because Nathan Drake is just a guy, not a soldier, or a mercenary or a space marine or something. And he's seemingly a well adjusted guy at that.

There us no real justification for him to slaughter his way through the faceless hordes.
He just wants to steal valuable artifacts.

For example nobody bats an eye at B.J Blascowitz slaughtering the Nazi war machine in Wolfenstein. He's a soldier at war and a mentally disturbed one at that.

 

[Cyrano]

He only cares when it's innocent people.

Murderous pirates, mercenaries working for a war criminal, and crazy occultist secret agents who are willing to murder kids are not innocent.

Interesting how the argument always works its way back around to guilt/innocence. Does feel more and more western as a thinking strategy.

I see characters as being empathetic towards others when they are pained in some way regarding harm. It's difficult to establish empathy or humanize the "good guy" as an empathetic character when they just murder characters carte blanche. There's no pushback either.

I would posit it as being the NPC problem: that is, when the player controls Drake, Drake is an NPC. But when Drake is in cutscenes, Drake is Drake.

Though maybe that itself is the mischaracterization. Drake, and every other "character" on the screen during play aren't characters. Or at least not to the extent we recognize them as such.

 

[10k]

Haven't cared much for this guy since the ousting of Amy and co. It's cool though, sometimes neogaf can exaggerate things so I give him that.

He doesn't need to justify Drake being a mass murderer, most video game protagonists are, they just do it to "protect" or "survive" but really its to provide entertainment and pad a campaigns longevity.

 

[staticneuron]

Yes, sometimes. The Things They Carried has a really moving story about a Vietcong soldier the author killed.

Well it gets unique when talking about the Vietnam War. The line between what one would consider innocent and a combatant disappeared at times which lead to horrifying situations. Women, children and animals were used as tools of war and to be honest you don't hear about that as a common narrative in other wars. Maybe as shields, but not often as an living weapon.

 

[-griffy-]

You're basically just defining your position as correct.

I also do not know of movies in which the likable protagonist shows no feeling towards murder. Characters like Rambo are not that likable and when they show no remorse it makes sense. Your premise that the tone is the same is shaky, even ignoring you hang waving the enormous death toll away by saying "video game conceit."

I'm supporting my position with reasoning.

Does Indiana Jones show feelings/remorse for the people he absolutely wrecks in this chase sequence? Actually, he looks quite happy at the end:

I'm not hand waving away anything, I'm recognizing the work of fiction in it's context, both in regards to it being a video game and in it's inspiration/aspiration.

 

[Cyrano]

pad a campaigns longevity.

End of the day, this is probably the actual reason, haha. I know of at least two games that needed to hit hour-marks for their respective publishers so they could put it on the back of the box.

 

[AniHawk]

Did you play Uncharted 3?

They didn't make it black and white as in hero/villian but Nathan is a thief. He ran away from an orphanage when he was young and stole to survive eventually running into Sullivan then seeming to steal for profits. Ever since the first game they alluded to his shady past encounters and people he has dealt with before. If you honestly believe that "his" type of profession doesn't existed in this world then that is a very sheltered view of things.

He is not considered relatable because of his profession but more because of his attitude and outlook in every situation we see him in. He is not a murderer in the sense that he kills innocent people but he is not shying away from defending himself from people who want to kill him. And if you believe that he is been living this life since an early teen you can easily see how what he does can be shrugged off by him.

I see alot of people talk about the weight of killing a person and how they must all be severely affected. Have any of you talked to someone who has returned from a battlefield? Do they lament about the people they have shot while trying to protect themselves or their comrades? In the large scale of things if you want to ponder the individual weight of a life and every possible human connection with it.... chances are you are not on a battlefield. And if you were.... you would probably be dead or will soon die. At the point of conflict between you and another person who has a gun and you know is going to shoot you, whether it is on a battlefield or on a city street, you cease to think of the person as someone with a family member, a job, responsibilities, or even ponder their education level. That person becomes an aggressor. A threat to you at that moment and time. Most reasonable people will respond with a fight or flight reaction. As if we haven't seen mass shootings in public areas or school shootings. After Anders Breivik shot several of your friends and is coming at you with a gun do you honestly think you are going to ponder his life? If you had a gun would you not shoot at him to kill? What about an army of people like that?

Yea, Uncharted may exist in a stylized version of reality, but people who honestly believe that they would turn into socrates in a life or death situation are living in another special version of reality.

this goes against the whole swashbuckling tone the series was trying to establish with the first two games. it sounds to me like the writers at naughty dog realized too late they they didn't know what kind of creature they created and tried to make it more sympathetic. am i supposed to feel sorry for drake that he got put into a series of globetrotting adventures since he was a kid, or am i supposed to think it's awesome? because i would think the developers want me to think it was awesome since he's such a lovable guy and hunting treasure is fun.

trying to find real reasons for why nathan drake is a crazy man is a mistake. instead of making the series into the last of us, they should have made it more like saints row. make it stupider and crazier. turn it into a parody of itself and have some fun. anything else feels like bad fanfiction.

 

[Darknight]

This thread is proof that Druckmann should ignore NeoGAF as much as possible.

Yup.

GAF: "He is an EVERYMAN, WHY IS HE KILLING PEOPLE??!!"
ND: Its a video game
GAF: "But but, he is not supposed to be a bald headed marine with combat experience!"
ND: Its a video game
GAF: "Why does Drake look like a human if he moves like a robot"
ND: Its a video game
GAF: "Drake shoots instead of raid tombs I mean, solve puzzles and read books at the library!"
ND: ....
GAF: "Why doesnt he think of his WIFE and his CHILDREN before going out on adventures? I know I wouldnt risk my FAMILY if I had to save the world!!!"
ND: ....
GAF: "I just secretly want to bang Drake or he ram me but he isnt real! Fuck you ND!! T_T"
ND: ok that does it *closes GAF tab*

 

[Superflat]

nathan drake's existence is strange. he is supposed to be an everyman, or at least super relatable, yet i have yet to meet a single person who graduated from treasure hunting college with a degree in treasure hunting after having written a thesis on treasure hunting. he's not indiana jones, a man who lives in a lost, more rugged time who wants to preserve history. he's not john mcclane, a man who has a lot of skill but is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. nathan drake is supposed to be somewhat goofy and a little roguish. he swings his arms wildly while jumping but is still a hit with the ladies and is quick with a quip. he's never in the wrong place at the wrong time because he puts himself in the situation he's in. he's hunting treasure presumably for himself, and the thrill of it, so he's not exactly relatable either (he doesn't exist in our world, nor would he as a normal everyman type).

He is every bit as relatable as Indiana Jones or John McClane -- which is to say, not very much. They're by design meant to be very unrealistic.

These types of characters are archetypes everyone wishes they were if shit were to hit the fan. Most of us are never going to be treasure hunters or terrorism's worst enemy, but people watch these films and imagine how awesome it would be if we were. If a group of terrorists were tearing a building apart, I'd love to be a hero who gets by with the skin of his teeth and save the day while being clever and charismatic. It's daydreaming nonsense that is not weighed down by the reality of people who do the things Indy and McClane do.

Just because Drake throws a few jokes here and there doesn't make him relatable any more than Indy. They're just being unapologetic badasses in a classic hollywood way. They're both people who are extremely lucky in the face of danger and often can't believe how lucky they are, in addition to being naturally witty, smart, and athletically unmatched. Drake is an "everyman" every bit as much as Indiana Jones is a University professor who takes vacations killing Nazis who want to use artifacts for evil.

 

[kaching]

nathan drake's existence is strange. he is supposed to be an everyman, or at least super relatable, yet i have yet to meet a single person who graduated from treasure hunting college with a degree in treasure hunting after having written a thesis on treasure hunting. he's not indiana jones, a man who lives in a lost, more rugged time who wants to preserve history. he's not john mcclane, a man who has a lot of skill but is just in the wrong place at the wrong time. nathan drake is supposed to be somewhat goofy and a little roguish. he swings his arms wildly while jumping but is still a hit with the ladies and is quick with a quip. he's never in the wrong place at the wrong time because he puts himself in the situation he's in. he's hunting treasure presumably for himself, and the thrill of it, so he's not exactly relatable either (he doesn't exist in our world, nor would he as a normal everyman type).

They're all strange and you can deconstruct all three this same way, or gloss over their weirdness with pithy soundbites like you did for IJ and Mcclane. All three are takes on the relatable, everyman-styled hero; they don't have superpowers, can all be caught off-balance and are just slightly more skilled/capable versions of people in the way we probably like to view our ideal ourselves, just trying to do the rightest thing in a terrible situation while managing to beat the odds seemingly by the skin of their teeth.

 

[endlessflood]

The first game starts with you uncovering a casket in a boat with Elena, and within minutes has pirates approaching and you asking Elena if she knows how to fire a gun, suggesting this is a regular occurrence for him. The character is literally introduced as a globetrotting treasure hunter who guns down badguys that are trying to kill you and take your treasure.

He also casually mentions (or at least heavily implies) that he's been in a Panamanian prison in that scene, along with the fact that they don't have a proper licence to be doing what they're doing.

 

[WolfForager]

He's bloody right. What else would you do in the game other than shoot people? It's supposed to be an action game not a stealth game. It looks like in UC4 they're introducing more stealth mechanics so the required killing will be lessened somewhat, so that should appease some of the critics.

But yea, anytime I see a "Drake is a murderer" comment on GAF I can't help but roll my eyes and close close the tab because the thread usually goes to shit from there on out.

 

[jay]

Yup.

GAF: "He is an EVERYMAN, WHY IS HE KILLING PEOPLE??!!"
ND: Its a video game
GAF: "But but, he is not supposed to be a bald headed marine with combat experience!"
ND: Its a video game
GAF: "Why does Drake look like a human if he moves like a robot"
ND: Its a video game
GAF: "Drake shoots instead of raid tombs I mean, solve puzzles and read books at the library!"
ND: ....
GAF: "Why doesnt he think of his WIFE and his CHILDREN before going out on adventures? I know I wouldnt risk my FAMILY if I had to save the world!!!"
ND: ....
GAF: "I just secretly want to bang Drake or he ram me but he isnt real! Fuck you ND!! T_T"
ND: ok that does it *closes GAF tab*

You certainly captured something there.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Of course he should ignore NeoGAF.

Most posts are non-constructive criticisms, I don't think it's worth it sometimes to wade through all that crap for the good ones. You'll never get anything done, you'll just start feeling depressed.

Yeah I know, some things should be criticise etc etc but in this case you're better off getting constructive criticism somewhere else.

 

[LastNac]

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