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[matmanx1]

Yeah the new Exotic system is a mess. No doubt about that. If it weren't for my 2 buddies that I group with nightly to do missions and strikes then I would have given up weeks ago.

Fortunately the game is an absolute blast to actually play with friends and that's what keeps me coming back. It's just a shame that Bungie is making so many mistakes with what is otherwise an extremely promising foundation.

 

[Lasty95]

The entire design of Destiny is so transparently built around artificially lengthening playtime, and everything in the expansion only reinforces that.

By "artificially" I take it you mean lack of all-new content? I don't think that's quite right.

Don't forget, first and foremost Destiny is a game of peerless mechanics. There's nothing to touch it - even Halo. What Bungie have given us are sufficient motivation - lots of little rewards and addictive grinds - to play through the same dozen of times and still be thirsty for more.

I've played a good couple of hundred hours and I'm not nearly done. Based on the quality of what is there, I'm hooked, and will happily play it until the (inevitably better) sequel comes out.

 

[Mindlog]

Except that your old gear is NOT OBSOLETE. The groups that are beating the new raid are doing it with predominantly old weapons and armor.

Most of the groups that beat Crota leaned on a level 31 player. That player had none of the old armor.

 

[elohel]

it's so hard to read any thread on destiny not because of how "bad" the game is but how people choose to vocalize it

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Just wait until the outrage when they patch it so that you are better rewarded for trading in a leveled up exotic only after all the die hards already got jack shit for trading in too early.

What a clusterfuck. Here's hoping Destiny 2 has better planning when it comes to all of this. It's a shame since the framework has so much potential.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Rubbish article - You can get loads of money in 20 minutes enough for 3 exotics...

Just pop an ether seed and go shooting yellow bar fallen....or the respective enemy (black wax etc).

If you got this far, you should know where they spawn on maps....its easy...

The point of Destiny is to enjoy shooting things and the gameplay.

I you are playing solely to level stuff, then sad.

I think the point is, the various systems Bungie has been dropping in are impeding leveling progress with needless complexity and poor design. The conclusion puts this into context - how fun the game is otherwise to play - quite well.

 

[TyrantII]

Problem 1 is a problem.

2 & 3 are just whining.

 

[CosmicSmash]

The gameplay. For all its faults, there's a damn solid base game underneath.

Which explains why people sink dozens of hours, only to complain about it. I'm able to look past the faults and just have fun shooting things, to be honest. The gunplay is some of the best.

 

[petethepanda]

 

[border]

Most of the groups that beat Crota leaned on a level 31 player. That player had none of the old armor.

But they almost certainly were doing it with mostly old weapons, since exotic upgrades were only available today.

 

[Trey]

Devaluing the time already spent in game is about the worst thing you can do in a video game.

Not adding content, while increasing the time required to get something or somewhere in a video game is the second worst thing you can do.

 

[Trakan]

Rubbish article - You can get loads of money in 20 minutes enough for 3 exotics...

Just pop an ether seed and go shooting yellow bar fallen....or the respective enemy (black wax etc).

If you got this far, you should know where they spawn on maps....its easy...

Or just play normally and pop the money making item for whowever you are fighting against,

The point of Destiny is to enjoy shooting things and the gameplay.

If you do it right you will never notice the money, its always maximum 25 K...no issues.

You cannot get that much glimmer in 20 minutes. It takes closer to an hour, and that's only farming a specific mission that has ~10 of those yellow health enemies.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Ah ! Nice

 

[Dirtbag]

I think the point is, the various systems Bungie has been dropping in are impeding leveling progress with needless complexity and poor design. The conclusion puts this into context - how fun the game is otherwise to play - quite well.

This I agree with. Too many moving parts. It feels like the result of a VERY compartmentalized process (making the game that is). And with a game with such massive time investment to play, its FAR too reactionary. They shift things around constantly.
I'm tired of hitting a moving bullseye.

Devaluing the time already spent in game is about the worst thing you can do in a video game.

Not adding content, while increasing the time required to get something or somewhere in a video game is the second worst thing you can do.

Bingo. They trivialized their own systems. In 3 months time no less!

 

[border]

You cannot get that much glimmer in 20 minutes. It takes closer to an hour, and that's only farming a specific mission that has ~10 of those yellow health enemies.

You can get ~450 glimmer in one minute during Exclusion Zone Heroic Mode. Die and repeat and you have about 10,000 glimmer in 20 minutes. This is not including any Network Codes you pick up for the Cryptarch.

Anyone having trouble with Glimmer need only spend 5 minutes on YouTube.

 

[Trickster]

In general, I'm fine with a new expansion raising the level cap and thus causing some gear to be less useful. The problem with Destiny, as compared to those games, is:

-It has a lot less gear and less varied gear. Only Exotics look unique--most Legendaries are reskins of each other.
-RNG makes it feel like Exotics, and Raid legendaries, are more valuable than they are. Some players have played for 100 hours and still don't have any Exotic bounties. Some players have played the VoG raid ~20 times and still don't have certain pieces of Raid gear
-There is shit all to do in the endgame, so taking away the only thing you can make progress toward (your gear) feels like an extra kick to the nuts

I agree with most of your points, except the last one. I don't see how the fact that the exotics you upgrade to lvl 32 versions, won't have fully upgraded skill tree as well, is taking away anything in terms of character/gear progresion.

Loot becoming obsolete in loot based game have been a normal and non controversial type of game design for a long time. So I just don't see why this is all of a sudden that big of an issue. Because plenty of games don't offer any kind of upgrade system at all, and no one makes article calling those games out on it.

 

[Dirtbag]

Anyone having trouble with Glimmer need only spend 5 minutes on YouTube.

Isn't that another failing of the game.

If you want the story, an explanation on your next goal, how to achieve it... you're constantly going somewhere else but the game for answers. That's extremely amateur from a studio like bungie.

 

[Dartastic]

The gameplay is solid, that is pretty much it. The whole thing has been a clusterfuck.

Super glad I had the foresight to notice this when I got to level 21 shortly after the game launched and dropped it immediately.

 

[Hiko]

Except that your old gear is NOT OBSOLETE. The groups that are beating the new raid are doing it with predominantly old weapons and armor.

Yeah, and they're gimped. It's like doing the VoG at level 26 with blue weapons. Yeah, you can technically do it but come on.

 

[Khrno]

You can only do this swapping at Xur, and you can only swap the items that he has available on any given weekend.

What? So I can't come back home tonight and trade in my Scout Rifle and Shotgun for the 331 versions? I have to wait and hope that he has them on his inventory to eb able to do it?

And I thought I just had to wait for today to exchange them. I'm going to buy the new purple Scout Rifle that's it.

 

[EmmaWatsonButt]

Isn't that another failing of the game.

If you want the story, an explanation on your next goal, how to achieve it... you're constantly going somewhere else but the game for answers. That's extremely amateur from a studio like bungie.

I don't think Bungie intended on you to accumulate glimmer that fast by watching a YouTube farming video. That's why the cap max is so low in the first place..

 

[border]

Isn't that another failing of the game.

If you want the story, an explanation on your next goal, how to achieve it... you're constantly going somewhere else but the game for answers. That's extremely amateur from a studio like bungie.

Please name a game where every trick or exploit for maximizing progress is explicitly documented in game. The beauty is that this stuff is discovered by players and shared in the community.

 

[Ardenyal]

why did I buy this.... first purchase in 2014 i REALLY regret :S

 

[StrongBlackVine]

The gameplay. For all its faults, there's a damn solid base game underneath.

That is not good enough any more. I finally bowed out.

 

[PedroLumpy]

You can get ~450 glimmer in one minute during Exclusion Zone Heroic Mode. Die and repeat and you have about 10,000 glimmer in 20 minutes. This is not including any Network Codes you pick up for the Cryptarch.

Anyone having trouble with Glimmer need only spend 5 minutes on YouTube.

Saying a game only requires you to do an annoying thing for 5 minutes instead of 60, doesn't really justify why you have to do the annoying thing.

 

[Dirtbag]

Please name a game where every trick or exploit for maximizing progress is explicitly documented in game. The beauty is that this stuff is discovered by players and shared in the community.

Maybe the glimmer trick was a poor example, but I think my point still stands. I'm doing entirely too much researching away from this game to keep up. I'm a savy gamer, but my time investment is more akin to a console gamer that plays shooters. I don't engross myself like the typical MMO or even RPG guy/gal might. I'm not specifically talking about tackling encounters from a smart vantage point.

 

[Trickster]

Saying a game only requires you to do an annoying thing for 5 minutes instead of 60, doesn't really justify why you have to do the annoying thing.

There's a difference between being required to do that annoying thing and having the option to do it and save some time in the process

 

[Pimpwerx]

I'm sure someone posted this already:

For armor, re-buying is cheaper than upgrading




https://twitter.com/localaaron/status/543438224224681985

Didn't think about this when iI just upgraded my third man helm. Upgrade path seems as tedious as before. I had 50k in bounties sitting in my inventory on all 3 characters. I used one telemetry on one character and cashed on all the bounties (actually 145k in total). My icebreaker only upgraded 6-7 nodes. I really expected more than that. Maybe specials take extra xp per slot. I couldn't test it on a primary due to the limitation on active slots.

Anyway, I'm going to get my characters to lvl 31 do I can be helpful on our flawless raider run. PEACE.

 

[border]

Yeah, and they're gimped. It's like doing the VoG at level 26 with blue weapons. Yeah, you can technically do it but come on.

The numbers do not bear this out.

blue weapons max out at 250 damage with like one perk. A vanilla legendary is 300 damage with 2 perks. A TDB legendary is 330 damage with 2 perks. The difference between new and old weapons is like 10% damage, versus a 20% difference between blue and vanilla purple.

 

[border]

Maybe the glimmer trick was a poor example, but I think my point still stands. I'm doing entirely too much researching away from this game to keep up. I'm a savy gamer, but my time investment is more akin to a console gamer that plays shooters. I don't engross myself like the typical MMO or even RPG guy/gal might. I'm not specifically talking about tackling encounters from a smart vantage point.

Dark Souls documents virtually none of its mechanics and is completely adored. It may not be to your taste, but plenty of people love diving into a healthy community to learn tactics, tricks, and exploits.

 

[PedroLumpy]

There's a difference between being required to do that annoying thing and having the option to do it and save some time in the process

Do you consider weapon progression optional in Destiny?

 

[Atilac]

The article makes some good points and the part where Xur has to have the exact weapon or armor that you'd like to upgrade is frustrating, however I will note that grinding is just a part of Destiny (and many other games like it).

For us people that play it, we don't mind grinding because we enjoy playing the game. I purchased my first Exotic upgrade today and won't mind grinding to earn back the 7000 glimmer because I can do bounties, strikes etc and earn other upgrades or materials in the process.

Not true. I played for over 500 hours, All my hard work and grinding was rewarded with more grinding. I don't enjoy it.

 

[Armaros]

Dark Souls documents virtually none of its mechanics and is completely adored. It may not be to your taste, but plenty of people love diving into a healthy community to learn tactics, tricks, and exploits.

Dark Souls entire set of content is to provide new items to fight the same reskinned monsters, missions and bosses?

 

[Trickster]

Do you consider weapon progression optional in Destiny?

If you play pvp casually then yeah I do.

I don't see what that has to do with it being "required" to farm glimmer in a way you find super boring though. Just because it's more efficient way of doing it than playing the game how you like to play the game, doesn't make it the required way of getting glimmer

 

[Hellshingu]

Didn't think about this when iI just upgraded my third man helm. Upgrade path seems as tedious as before. I had 50k in bounties sitting in my inventory on all 3 characters. I used one telemetry on one character and cashed on all the bounties (actually 145k in total). My icebreaker only upgraded 6-7 nodes. I really expected more than that. Maybe specials take extra xp per slot. I couldn't test it on a primary due to the limitation on active slots.

Anyway, I'm going to get my characters to lvl 31 do I can be helpful on our flawless raider run. PEACE.

There's only 12 nodes on exotic weapons which by your calculations you unlocked 6ish with 145k xp. That would mean that it would take 294xp to level it up? Exotic weapons without the nightfall bonus that are fresh only take like 212k xp to completely level up. Looks like your math is wrong. I turned in a 5k bounty on my upgraded icebreaker and believe I got the first node unlocked with some leftover in next bubbles without the nightfall bonus. I had some of the bubble filled out from trying it out on enemies to see damage comparison.

 

[border]

Dark Souls entire set of content is to provide new items to fight the same reskinned monsters, missions and bosses?

How is that relevant? If you say it's "bad game design" to require players to look outside in-game materials for advice or guidance, then that philosophy should apply to any and all games.

It's not as if I couldn't have named two dozen competitive multiplayer titles that require heavy participation in the meta-game, and revolve around nothing but repetition of content.

 

[Michanical]

Wow, they are really trying to wring as much gameplay time out of the few assets they have. It breaks my heart to see Bungie mess a game like this up.

 

[Sojgat]

Problem 1 is a problem.

2 & 3 are just whining.

Problem 3 is the entire reason why I didn't buy the DLC. I have a number of fully upgraded exotics (a time commitment of hundreds of hours), and I'd lose all the mats I sunk into them, when I reset their progress. The worst part is the process will probably repeat with each subsequent DLC release, completely turning me off of ever playing any of it.

It's a complete joke, but I'll stop whining now.

 

[LifEndz]

Just upgraded my exotic hand cannon and chest armor and I was surprised to see that you can only upgrade/trade-in an exotic if xur has it that weekend. That is fucking dumb. Not quite no matchmaking for weeklys and raids dumb, but dumb.

It's like Bungie wants the community that is still playing this game to hate it.

 

[Anastasis]

I'm sure someone posted this already:

For armor, re-buying is cheaper than upgrading




https://twitter.com/localaaron/status/543438224224681985

I can't believe it. This has to be the biggest oversight of it all. I guess the only thing you get spending 7K glimmer plus an additional strange coin is getting a better chance at upgrading what you want when you want to. Xur has multiple options of gear and weapons to upgrade, but only one of each per class to outright buy.

 

[LifEndz]

I am surprised they did not propose some microtransactions to relief the players from the grinding.

I shudder to think of how much they could make by selling exotic cryptograms.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I agree with most of your points, except the last one. I don't see how the fact that the exotics you upgrade to lvl 32 versions, won't have fully upgraded skill tree as well, is taking away anything in terms of character/gear progresion.

Loot becoming obsolete in loot based game have been a normal and non controversial type of game design for a long time. So I just don't see why this is all of a sudden that big of an issue. Because plenty of games don't offer any kind of upgrade system at all, and no one makes article calling those games out on it.

My last point was that, because there is little to do in the game OTHER than level up your gear (after all, your level is directly tied to your armor), it feels extra bitter that the one thing you'd been focusing on--that is, maxing out your Exotics--was a waste of time.

Loot IS the endgame in Destiny, so this kind of change stands out even more compared to other MMOs.

I love that Dragon Age: Inquisition lets you remove and repurpose your gear customizations/upgrades. When I find a weapon with better base stats than my current one, I can take the blade/hilt/etc. off my current weapon and put it on my new one, instantly buffing it.

If you do it right you will never notice the money, its always maximum 25 K...no issues.

Guess I've been doing it wrong. I played for 110 hours and the most glimmer I ever had at any point was about 14k, and that was only after the raid (lots of Vex glimmer drops). I always use my consumables, too.

 

[BBboy20]

Saw this coming a mile away, glad I hit the eject button on that game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkCdlnfdcfA

This game has been a mess, but strangely I hope they can learn for Destiny 2.

It's a shame how badly this game was stripped and designed overall because the shooting felt great as well as the rest of the gameplay.

Part of me misses playing it but then I realize that I can't keep doing the same thing over and over in that "world" they built.

Hope destiny 2 fixes stuff and stops trying to rob consumers blind

I'm glad I checked out just before this. My memories of playing the game will still be mostly positive. I subjected myself to the insanity that was MW2 for too long, and it put me off that series until four weeks ago. If Destiny 2 is a major improvement I'll be there, but the current structure and scarce amount of content just ran out of gas for me way, way earlier than I'd have ever thought before this game launched.

If they can't fix Destiny 1, how are they going to fix Destiny 2?

This game still needs a reboot/retool. I would come back for a Realm Reborn: Destiny. What a train wreck this continues to be.

So long so many people enjoy the repetition, it won't matter.

 

[geordiemp]

You cannot get that much glimmer in 20 minutes. It takes closer to an hour, and that's only farming a specific mission that has ~10 of those yellow health enemies.

Yes you can, do a story mission with lots of yellow commanders, lvl 11 and pop a ether seed / whatever.

While you at it, make sure its a bounty one...Double win.

I do a farm run on venus in a loop, kill the spawning yellow health (blue shield) captain 20 times with 1 ether seed. 20 x 200 = 4000, plus all the other kills, 10,000 in 10 minutes.

Or go do the one where 'you have opened the hive' and pop a black wax idol - you can rack 600 kills in 15 minutes, make sure you die before killing big night.

 

[GhaleonEB]

How is that relevant? If you say it's "bad game design" to require players to look outside in-game materials for advice or guidance, then that philosophy should apply to any and all games.

It's not as if I couldn't have named two dozen competitive multiplayer titles that require heavy participation in the meta-game, and revolve around nothing but repetition of content.

Except, most of Destiny's grind problems are examples of bad design, rather than allowing players to discover things for themselves. Every time I lamented how it took 128 helium filaments to level my gauntlets and boots, someone would mention that I could grind that out in an hour of pure repetitive misery, as if that's a viable solution. (It's not.) Fortunately Bungie implemented a much better solution and made materials a reward for additional activities, so what is required can be earned by just playing the game. That's good! What's needed is more of that kind of solution finding, not forcing players to find exploits to increasingly convoluted treadmills.

 

[zlatko]

Yeah when I saw that today I was like wtf?!

What really grinded my gears is that I have the third eye helmet, but my hunter is level 10...and since he can't equip it he can't trade it into Xur to do the upgrade.

REALLY?! COME ON! I have it, the shard, the money, COUGH IT UP UGH!!!

They need to make Xur available ALL week now, but have his inventory reset on Fridays or something since he's so crucial now more than ever.

I'm deflated from this game. I am going to try the new raid once, watch a completion video online, then I'm probably done with Destiny aside from some MP romps here and there.

:/

 

[Varvor]

I just upgraded three exotics at Xur. I don't have the energy to level them up again. My Last Word went from invincible to mediocre instantly.

Wait! What?

Why in flying fuck would you upgrade TLW this early on?

Its a pvp-only weapon and its damage has ZERO impact on normal crucible. Furthermore IB is based mostly on your toon level not level of your weapon.

 

[border]

I do a farm run on venus in a loop, kill the spawning yellow health (blue shield) captain 20 times with 1 ether seed. 20 x 200 = 4000, plus all the other kills, 10,000 in 10 minutes.

Do you mean the Captain by the entrance to the cave for Draksis Kell/Archon Priest? Can you really get him to spawn twice a minute?

 

[AlwaysPlaying]

Is there anything about that game that is not a mess?

This is truth. I am so fed up with this game. its an epic failure for any kind of longevity

 

[originalself]

If I did not have a really fun raid group I probably would not still be playing.