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[Future PhaZe]

never investing myself into a game that demands that much time of me

great game otherwise, but I saw pretty quickly how irresponsible it would be for me to start taking it seriously

very glad I traded it in

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It's more messed up than that. Armor bonus stat rolls do not persist through the upgrade process. In essence you are just buying a new item and hoping the stats are as good or better.

Sunbreakers with an Intelligence of 102 will only have an Intelligence of 82 this week.
At the cost of the item maybe you can upgrade that item the next time it shows up in Xur's inventory.
It would once again cost you 7k Glimmer, an exotic shard and reset all XP on the item.

There are four possibilities.
1.) This is an oversight.
2.) This is a benevolent move for players to upgrade from low bonus rolls to high balanced by extreme cost.
3.) This was the expedient way to implement upgrading. You're basically just buying a new item so no new system had to be added to the game.
4.) This is more grind.

5.) Destiny was once or is still in the process of becoming a 'Free to Play' game.

This is the part that pisses me off. I got the armanterium the first. Time xur had it. Next week? He had a slightly better one, 10 discipline more. I was like, 'ok not that big of a difference'. The week after that? He had it again but with 30 more discipline. When I saw it I just turned off the console. They're just punishing people for buying gear early. The worst part is you don't know if he's going to have a better one the next week, so you either get it now and get screwed, or wait a week only to find out he doesn't have it. And it's only going to get worse the more exotic gear he gets to sale. Basically you get screwed if you try to make your character the best hw can, you're forced to buy copies of the same gear if they roll better stats.

 

[benicillin]

Another oversight:

Resource cost for upgrading an exotic and grinding to max:
7 Strange Coins + 2 exotic shards (costing 14SC or 2 dismantled exotics) + 7k glimmer + your vanilla exotic

Buying a brand new (13SC) exotic and grinding to max:
13 Strange Coins + 1 exotic shard + your dismantled vanilla exotic (which will net you 1 exotic shard + glimmer)

In other words, buying a brand new version of the exotic is more cost effective than upgrading when it should be the other way around. My biggest problem with the upgrade system is that it doesn't respect the time you put in to grind your exotic gear. In fact, it kind of punishes you for it.

It doesn't cost 7 strange coins to upgrade your exotic. I upgraded 2 earlier for just the vanilla exotic, a shard and 14k glimmer total.

EDIT: I should clarify - it costs an exotic shard, 7k glimmer and the exotic to upgrade one.

EDIT 2: If you fully level your exotic (i.e. unlock all the nodes, you don't have to purchase all of them) you get two shards when you scrap it.

 

[Gintamen]

Everything I've heard about Destiny is that it's a really solid 20-hour game the devs somehow want to make you play for hundreds of hours.

Twenty is stretching it a bit. It's only twenty because you have to grind so much to even get to lvl 20. There is nothing worthwhile aside from the shooting mechanics in this game.

 

[molnizzle]

In other words, buying a brand new version of the exotic is more cost effective than upgrading when it should be the other way around. My biggest problem with the upgrade system is that it doesn't respect the time you put in to grind your exotic gear. In fact, it kind of punishes you for it.

How did Bungie's systems designers still have their jobs?

Honest question.

 

[Hiko]

I just upgraded three exotics at Xur. I don't have the energy to level them up again. My Last Word went from invincible to mediocre instantly.

 

[Nephtes]

I can't wait to go home and check, but it looks like I can upgrade my Mask of The Third Man today! Sweet!

But yeah this sucks for people who's item is not on the list...

 

[GuitarAtomik]

It doesn't cost 7 strange coins to upgrade your exotic. I upgraded 2 earlier for just the vanilla exotic, a shard and 14k glimmer total.

EDIT: I should clarify - it costs an exotic shard, 7k glimmer and the exotic to upgrade one.

Yep you're right. Even with that it's still more cost effective to buying a new one than upgrading.

 

[PedroLumpy]

There wouldn't be as much dramatic discussion if this game wasn't loot based. They get away with having a game that tons of people are constantly talking about because it has its own economy, metagame, a merchant that only comes on weekends...people can't help but tell the internet about their god damn exotic drops.

At the very least I think the idea of daily/weekly challenges and Xur (in theory) are brilliant.

A lot of that stuff is making their game shittier though. If they care about meta-whatever stuff over the game itself, well that's their call. As a person who actually played the game, it's just fluff that wastes my time and prevents me from playing the 'real' game.

 

[benicillin]

Yep you're right. Even with that it's still more cost effective to buying a new one than upgrading.

The thing about buying a new one is that he only has one exotic on any given week and he doesn't sell bounty weapons - upgrading my Thorn was a whole lot easier than waiting to find the bounty and doing the bounty all over again, or hoping that sells a new Suros or find one than upgrade it.

 

[johntown]

Twenty is stretching it a bit. It's only twenty because you have to grind so much to even get to lvl 20. There is nothing worthwhile aside from the shooting mechanics in this game.

Exactly, if you only play the story you will be under-leveled quickly and to the point where you cannot progress without grinding. I think I made it to Venus doing only story before I hit the Very Hard wall and had to grind to really progress further in the story.

 

[tbm24]

Ammo synth packs are that awesome?

Yes? They were needed in VoG and they are especially needed in the new raid.

 

[Mindlog]

It doesn't cost 7 strange coins to upgrade your exotic. I upgraded 2 earlier for just the vanilla exotic, a shard and 14k glimmer total.

EDIT: I should clarify - it costs an exotic shard, 7k glimmer and the exotic to upgrade one.

If you buy a new weapon you can shard the old one. That's the additional 7 Strange Coins.
In the case of a fully upgraded weapon you could be losing an additional 14 strange coins by upgrading it.*

I just upgraded three exotics at Xur. I don't have the energy to level them up again. My Last Word went from invincible to mediocre instantly.

I upgraded Icebreaker. It's pretty close to 'patently better,' but I already knew that was going to happen.
Red Death on the other hand.... is also as I expected was going to happen.
Not even talking about Thorn because that was stupidly obvious.

*I got two from Sharding my fully upgraded 300 ATK Truth. Results may vary.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

EDIT 2: If you fully level your exotic (i.e. unlock all the nodes, you don't have to purchase all of them) you get two shards when you scrap it.

Is this true? Because I'm pretty sure it was not the case last week.

The thing about buying a new one is that he only has one exotic on any given week and he doesn't sell bounty weapons - upgrading my Thorn was a whole lot easier than waiting to find the bounty and doing the bounty all over again, or hoping that sells a new Suros or find one than upgrade it.

That's really the only upside. It's not much of one though.

 

[tbm24]

I just upgraded three exotics at Xur. I don't have the energy to level them up again. My Last Word went from invincible to mediocre instantly.

Then why did you upgrade them?

 

[benicillin]

Is this true? Because I'm pretty sure it was not the case last week.

I scrapped my Invective that was fully leveled (but not maxed, it was at 274 I believe) and got two shards from it. This may only be true for weapons though, I haven't tried for armor.

 

[Hiko]

Is this true? Because I'm pretty sure it was not the case last week.

I scrapped my fully leveled exotic helm and I'm pretty sure I only got one shard.

Then why did you upgrade them?

Because I wanted to upgrade their attack and Xur might never offer the chance again.

I underestimated how much grinding it would take to re-level them. Suros and Ice Breaker aren't so bad since the upgrades don't add much. But TLW lives and dies by its upgrades. I turned 15000 exp worth of bounties and even with the telemetry I only gained one node.

 

[Ashler]

I basically checked out after knowing how things would work after the DLC hit. Had a lvl 30 and a 29 ready to go, but no thanks! Im done with their bullshit.

 

[Kodros]

Which is why one of the biggest problems with the game is a lack of content. It's the main reason why there's so much grinding.

I don't believe that grinding was added because of the lack of content. If Destiny had zero grind it would have been a 10 hour game which can be said about many games. So it's not like they had 1 hour of content and decided to make it a lot longer with a grind.

Why?
If my Hard Light was 333 I would be using the hell out of it. Sounds great and fun to use.
I don't use it now because I have to level other weapons and the excessive upgrade cost means I won't be doing that even if it did show up in Xur's inventory.

I'm not motivated by grind. Grind is not a goal.

The upgrade cost isn't excessive at all. 7k glimmer isn't that much and a shard costs 7 strange coins. To me, a grind is something that is done over and over again to reach a goal. So a grind isn't always a negative thing. If your enjoyment of the content you are grinding is less than what it would be to reach the goal, then I think you are going to have a bad time. If not, then you will enjoy the grind and enjoy the goal.

Clearly, they're issues for a lot of other people.

It's about respecting your time. Not just the time that you have to put aside to play the game and re-level everything (because, let's face it, you're going to replaying the same Strikes/Raid/bounties/patrols over and over again), but the time you had already invested in it. Because you already spent hours earning them.

Aren't they respecting your time by allowing you to upgrade it in the first place? The chances of your upgrade showing up is much, much greater than waiting for a new upgraded model to drop. But I do think they could have made the transition a little easier. Maybe automatically unlock the unique gun/armor perk automatically if the gun you are upgrading had it unlocked. But only unlock that single node, you would have to level the rest. I still find it odd that people are so pissed at this exotic for "not respecting players time" yet every other object on your dude is going to need to get replaced.

 

[SonnyBoy]

Problem with Destiny is that there isn't much to take your mind off the fact that you are grinding. Even grinding requires grinding.

LOL

 

[Majukun]

This game has been a mess, but strangely I hope they can learn for Destiny 2.

learn what?they know exactly what they are doing,and they are gonna do it again

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I scrapped my Invective that was fully leveled (but not maxed, it was at 274 I believe) and got two shards from it. This may only be true for weapons though, I haven't tried for armor.

I scrapped my fully leveled exotic helm and I'm pretty sure I only got one shard.

That's a great change, but weird if it only applies to weapons.

 

[Biggu Bosu]

This game has been a mess, but strangely I hope they can learn for Destiny 2.

They can learn with Destiny one with patches that can change the entire system if they want to

This type of illogical thinking is what Bungie preys on, they can stop all this useless endless grinding if they wanted to right now, they have the Internet, they know what's going on

 

[Sanpei]

Bungie is making ridiculous things to force players to play their game more for grinding...
Ok this makes sense, but this is not done like Bungie does...

You shouldnt take away actual game content and sell it as DLC
You should provide more content, story, rich gameplay...Then if you want you can sell DLC...Then, players will play your game more...As they did with Halo for years...

I never bother with Dark Below dlc...I open rarely Destiny to play Crucible only..And it is getting old very quickly...Time to get back to BF4 for me...

 

[recks]

Yep you're right. Even with that it's still more cost effective to buying a new one than upgrading.

I think you forgot specifing that you're talking about Gear not Weapons. Gear costs 13 + Dismantled or 14 Coins to fully upgrade, Weapons costs 17/23 Coins + Dismantled or 14 Coins to fully upgrade. So Gear is cheaper but not Weapons.

 

[tbm24]

I scrapped my fully leveled exotic helm and I'm pretty sure I only got one shard.



Because I wanted to upgrade their attack and Xur might never offer the chance again.

I underestimated how much grinding it would take to re-level them. Suros and Ice Breaker aren't so bad since the upgrades don't add much. But TLW lives and dies by its upgrades. I turned 15000 exp worth of bounties and even with the telemetry I only gained one node.

I'd find it unlikely that Xur would never offer it again. I question if telemetry helps in any substantial way. Exotics take an absurd amount of time but them the breaks. I'm bringing my multitool and hawkmoon with me into the new world. Upgrading be damned, I'll commit to getting them back to where I need them.

 

[Trickster]

Clearly, they're issues for a lot of other people.

It's about respecting your time. Not just the time that you have to put aside to play the game and re-level everything (because, let's face it, you're going to replaying the same Strikes/Raid/bounties/patrols over and over again), but the time you had already invested in it.

When other MMOs make big changes to their skill/upgrade systems, they may reset you to zero (or give you the opportunity to) but they give you your skill/perk points back, too. Why? Because you already spent hours earning them.

In most, if not all of the very popular mmo/loot games, you don't get the option to upgrade any of your old gear to the new "cap", whenever an expansion or patch that raises the ceiling for gear is released. Which essentially renders all your previously collected items useless.

Level 60 gear in D3 is garbage on level 70
Level 90 Mists of Pandaria gear in WoW is garbage at level 100 in Warlords of Draenor
Level 50 gear in Borderlands 2 is garbage with the level 60 dlc
etc.

Bungie allowing you to upgrade exotics to level 32 is "respecting your time" far more than other similar games do.

And I say this as someone who thinks Destiny is terrible btw.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

This is all by intention. This game demands that you grind all the time otherwise who would still play the same content 50, 100, 200 times?

 

[darkwing]

maybe its better to wait for the next DLC, so one time upgrade to attack rating 360 something

 

[benicillin]

For some quick tips on leveling, it took me 3 days worth of bounties (just the vanguard and Eris ones including the Nightfall bonus and telemetry whenever I turned them in) to level my Pocket Infinity from start to the final row of damage upgrades. Make sure to try and do a public event as well since the first one of each day rewards you 5k xp when you pick up the package at postmaster.

They do take a while to upgrade, but saving up bounties and using telemetries when you turn them in (as well as doing the nightfall as early in the week as you can) significantly lessens the time required to level it.

 

[WarWolf]

In most, if not all, mmo/loot games, you don't get the option to upgrade any of your old gear to the new "cap", whenever an expansion or patch that raises the ceiling for gear is released. Which essentially renders all your previously collected items useless.

Level 60 gear in D3 is garbage on level 70
Level 90 Mists of Pandaria gear in WoW is garbage at level 100 in Warlords of Draenor
Level 50 gear in Borderlands 2 is garbage with the level 60 dlc
etc.

Bungie allowing you to upgrade exotics to level 32 is "respecting your time" far more than other similar games do.

And I say this as someone who thinks Destiny is terrible btw.

The time between expansions isn't typically only 3 months. Making gear obsolete every three months is bad game design. And that's considering you're lucky enough to get a drop and use it that long before it's obsolete.

 

[A.D. Skinner]

I don't see how problem 3 is a problem at all.

No one should be able to get a fully upgraded improved version of a gun in a second. The improved versions have a high damage rating then the fully upgraded regular versions anyway!

 

[Defect]

I only hate Problem 1. Xur doesn't have my titan helmet to upgrade so I bought an exotic engram but got a hunter helmet...

 

[Principate]

In most, if not all, mmo/loot games, you don't get the option to upgrade any of your old gear to the new "cap", whenever an expansion or patch that raises the ceiling for gear is released. Which essentially renders all your previously collected items useless.

Level 60 gear in D3 is garbage on level 70
Level 90 Mists of Pandaria gear in WoW is garbage at level 100 in Warlords of Draenor
Level 50 gear in Borderlands 2 is garbage with the level 60 dlc
etc.

Bungie allowing you to upgrade exotics to level 32 is "respecting your time" far more than any other similar games do.

And I say this as someone who thinks Destiny is terrible btw.

No it's not clearly your knowledge of mmo's is low if you honestly believe this. Ther's plenty of games that allow you to use your lower level on higher level content. GW2 vindictus dozens of f2p mmo's.

Also in most of many of those traditional gear grind games you don't upgrade your equipment in that context, you get an RNG chance to obtain the equipment but that's largely it once you you've obtained all the pieces you want your done, and there's many mmo's where top level equipment stats wise is not soulbound so you can actually just buy what you want.so your grinding is not useless.

 

[Trickster]

The time between expansions isn't typically only 3 months. Making gear obsolete every three months is bad game design. And that's considering you're lucky enough to get a drop and use it that long before it's obsolete.

That I will agree with you on, definitely a fair point. But I honestly think being mad that you can't just upgrade all your old lvl 30 exotics to fully upgraded lvl 32 exotics for free is silly and also a result of the game in question being Destiny.

 

[Anton Sugar]

In most, if not all, mmo/loot games, you don't get the option to upgrade any of your old gear to the new "cap", whenever an expansion or patch that raises the ceiling for gear is released. Which essentially renders all your previously collected items useless.

Level 60 gear in D3 is garbage on level 70
Level 90 Mists of Pandaria gear in WoW is garbage at level 100 in Warlords of Draenor
Level 50 gear in Borderlands 2 is garbage with the level 60 dlc
etc.

Bungie allowing you to upgrade exotics to level 32 is "respecting your time" far more than any other similar games do.

And I say this as someone who thinks Destiny is terrible btw.

In general, I'm fine with a new expansion raising the level cap and thus causing some gear to be less useful. The problem with Destiny, as compared to those games, is:

-It has a lot less gear and less varied gear. Only Exotics look unique--most Legendaries are reskins of each other.
-RNG makes it feel like Exotics, and Raid legendaries, are more valuable than they are. Some players have played for 100 hours and still don't have any Exotic bounties. Some players have played the VoG raid ~20 times and still don't have certain pieces of Raid gear
-There is shit all to do in the endgame, so taking away the only thing you can make progress toward (your gear) feels like an extra kick to the nuts

The time between expansions isn't typically only 3 months. Making gear obsolete every three months is bad game design. And that's considering you're lucky enough to get a drop and use it that long before it's obsolete.

This. RNG and the time between these expansions (as well as the lack of content, going off of The Dark Below) makes it worse than other MMOs. Because there is so little to do, all you have to look forward to is getting new gear, while knowing fully that it will be obsolete in a short amount of time.

 

[WarWolf]

That I will agree with you on, definitely a fair point. But I honestly think being mad that you can't just upgrade all your old lvl 30 exotics to fully upgraded lvl 32 exotics for free is silly and also a result of the game in question being Destiny.

A solution I would have preferred is to add more bubbles to grind up, not completely reset progress. I have around 20 fully leveled exotics. Hearing the news on how it was being handled has made me lose complete interest in playing anymore. I just can't do the grind again.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

I understand the complaints. But so far the upgrade system hasn't wronged me. I was able to upgrade my Titan's Armorantium without losing any light. Sure, I have grind out all the upgrades, but I still have all of the expansion content to do and I've never run through VoG.

It would have been nice if Xur had upgrades for Truth or Bad Juju. But I only have enough coins for one of the two. Next weekend I can upgrade one of them, if not both.

 

[Mindlog]

That I will agree with you on, definitely a fair point. But I honestly think being mad that you can't just upgrade all your old lvl 30 exotics to fully upgraded lvl 32 exotics for free is silly and also a result of the game in question being Destiny.

Pretty sure most players with multiple exotics would be more than happy to pay for the upgrade.

 

[Waylon Drums]

The worst part of this entire debate is that it just serves to remind me that the RNG in the game hates me and I've never gotten an exotic weapon.

Yes, I'm bitter. Wannafightabouddit?

I understand the complaints. But so far the upgrade system hasn't wronged me. I was able to upgrade my Titan's Armorantium without losing any light. Sure, I have grind out all the upgrades, but I still have all of the expansion content to do and I've never run through VoG.

It would have been nice if Xur had upgrades for Truth or Bad Juju. But I only have enough coins for one of the two. Next weekend I can upgrade one of them, if not both.

Wait. You can upgrade armor? Why did I think this was only for weapons?

 

[Camp Lo]

SMH. I don't know why people who feel this kind of way about Destiny doesn't just leave it alone.

I haven't touched my copy in I don't know how long. At this point, there isn't a damn thing they can do to improve it.

 

[benicillin]

The worst part of this entire debate is that it just serves to remind me that the RNG in the game hates me and I've never gotten an exotic weapon.

Yes, I'm bitter. Wannafightabouddit?

I've only ever randomly found one exotic weapon in a legendary engram. All my other exotics were bought or gotten through bounties.

 

[dark10x]

Is there anything about that game that is not a mess?

As far as I can tell, a lot of the problems stem from those that want to absolutely maximize everything in the game. I played rather casually and have had an absolutely wonderful time getting up to 26 with plans to continue playing. The grinding I've engaged in was actually just playing the game - no different from replaying missions in a Halo game, really. The simplistic nature of the mission design actually works pretty well for replays as you don't need to wait on scripted events or cutscenes. It just plays so damn well.

I play it for the gameplay and the rewards from gameplay are just perks that keep things interesting.

This article is all like "more grinding!!!" but isn't that just playing the game? If you finish grinding and reach your goal...what then? You're done with the game, right? That's what it sure seems like to me. :\

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The difference and general fallacy of comparing the loot in destiny to Diablo or world of warcraft is that in those games you don't have to grind for 5 hours getting the gear to it's full potential. You get a legendary in Diablo? Its good to go! You get an epic in WoW? You're good to go! You get anything in Destiny? Guess what you have to spend the next week having to unlock all the nodes. It wouldn't be a problem if they didn't reset the weapons levels. That's just stupid and forcing a grind on people who played early.

And that's what bungie has been doing. Screwing over early adopters.

 

[Freshmaker]

This article is all like "more grinding!!!" but isn't that just playing the game? If you finish grinding and reach your goal...what then? You're done with the game, right? That's what it sure seems like to me. :\

What goal? There's no goal for maxxing things out.

 

[dark10x]

What goal? There's no goal for maxxing things out.

Then why are people doing it exactly?

 

[RustySpoon]

I've only ever randomly found one exotic weapon in a legendary engram. All my other exotics were bought or gotten through bounties.

The only exotic I've dropped was a gjallarhorn. Had to laugh about that when it happened. Still, sold the game for $40 on CL yesterday. Felt like a good idea.

 

[Mindlog]

Then why are people doing it exactly?

To play the game?
If you want to play the hard raid you better max your gear and weapons. The goal for many is mastery of the content and not the acquisition of tools.

 

[border]

Making gear obsolete every three months is bad game design. And that's considering you're lucky enough to get a drop and use it that long before it's obsolete.

Except that your old gear is NOT OBSOLETE. The groups that are beating the new raid are doing it with predominantly old weapons and armor.

 

[geordiemp]

Rubbish article - You can get loads of money in 20 minutes enough for 3 exotics...

Just pop an ether seed and go shooting yellow bar fallen....or the respective enemy (black wax etc).

If you got this far, you should know where they spawn on maps....its easy...

Or just play normally and pop the money making item for whowever you are fighting against,

The point of Destiny is to enjoy shooting things and the gameplay.

If you do it right you will never notice the money, its always maximum 25 K...no issues.