We have a giant mech that shoots laser beams
We are getting S2-shit tier finale for sure
And yes TOA, S2 is awful so don't bother with the GIF
Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
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We have a giant mech that shoots laser beams
We are getting S2-shit tier finale for sure
And yes TOA, S2 is awful so don't bother with the GIF
Sky Interloper
Member
To echo everything that has been said about Kuvira, she is a pretty shallow character. Maybe the writers think they can salvage her by giving us an info dump, a flashback, or something around those lines; the problem is that compared to Amon, she has no deeper meaning than uniting the entire continent. She hasn't shown anything resembling a motivation behind her ideas beyond a power-hungry one, so Kuvira is factually shallow.
The equalist movement was much more grounded in the series universe than the Republic City dilemma, something that was just mentioned as a side talk between royalty. And there hasn't been an uprising in the Earth Kingdom or anything of sorts rallying behind the idea of regaining the lands of the United Republic, so it would seem like the idea just sprout out of nowhere in order to give Korra a final conflict to solve and tie to the theme of this season.
The equalist movement was much more grounded in the series universe than the Republic City dilemma, something that was just mentioned as a side talk between royalty. And there hasn't been an uprising in the Earth Kingdom or anything of sorts rallying behind the idea of regaining the lands of the United Republic, so it would seem like the idea just sprout out of nowhere in order to give Korra a final conflict to solve and tie to the theme of this season.
Sure, and yet others shows have been able to create good villains in a single Season. Hell, I would argue Amon and Zaheer were both good villains, they just fucked up in certain aspects (Amon they dropped the ball in the end. Zaheer, just needed a little bit more time with his views, and his origin). But they were infinitely more compelling and more interesting than Kuvira.
So while I get that, the writers can't be expected to write an Azula or Zuko in one season, I think there isn't that much of an excuse here. Plus, it's like...their final season of the show. Why did they even bother having 4 seasons, if they didn't have the content to really fill it out.
Icyflamez96
Member
JadedWriter
Member
You and me both know that begging for it not to appear is like begging for it to appear.
Lol but it is that whacky. The design of the robot looks silly. The whole concept is kind of silly.
I feel like I shouldn't be chuckling at the main threat of the end of the series.Infinite Justice
Member
Remember when she might of had ties with the Red Lotus? decent times (since i think that idea was kinda lame but at least it brought something to the character).
As said we still have 2 episodes left to see if they pull something and also what will be her ultimate fate (especially if they keep on the path of "lol more power" and painting her in a corner)
As said we still have 2 episodes left to see if they pull something and also what will be her ultimate fate (especially if they keep on the path of "lol more power" and painting her in a corner)
The whole Red Lotus stuff is pretty insane in hindsight. How Book 3 ends with all the leaders standing around, and saying that there is more of them out there. And then how like, they had jack shit to do with this season.
Since you asked:
Looks like a smurf blowing their...
Uh nevermind.
Come on now. you have to at least agree that Book 3 is by far the best season of Korra so far.
Sigh we had such high hopes for Book 4 after that fantastic season.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Forgot to mention that I never considered Zuko a villain. Always seemed like the anti-hero in a chaotic neutral stance. Even in S1 when he was directly opposing the good guys, it didn't feel like a villain. Heck even Uncle gave the whole speech of "your body is suffering because you are caught in between good and evil" that one scene he is like sick with a fever. He was by far one of the most interesting characters.
Yeah, I thought Book 3 was better than Book 1. But as someone that actually liked Book 1, a lot (despite its flaws), I could see the argument for Book 3 not being better than Book 1 either. Still, if that was the case, I'd still book Book 3 VERY close to it. The way I see it, this series has definitely had at least 2 really really good seasons.
JadedWriter
Member
Fan theory of her being Zaheer an Suyin's illegitimate daughter was more interesting than the current reality.
That's because he's not really a villain. If you've ever seen Gundam Seed he's Athrun Zala.
Since you asked:
I really liked this fight. Wish it were longer. I like the mech too. Go big or go home.
Admiral Woofington
Member
And with just one post, one man loses all credibility.
What the hell is up with the pacing this season? Even ignoring that an entire episode's worth of content had to be slashed, a story like the Tenzin's kids episode should not be in the final season. The Battle of Zaofu should not have been spread over two episodes when it barely had enough content for one. Operation Bei Fong is a fucking awesome episode, yet it should be in the middle of the season, not shoved right before the finale. I feel like this season had a bunch of potential and then said potential just wasn't taken advantage of. Why did it take so long for Bolin to reunite with the gang, or for Korra's issues to be dealt with, or for the superweapon we saw so long ago to actually get used?
Hell, even if we didn't have to get a clipshow, I get the feeling we would have gotten some Wu comedy filler instead, because the writers apparently forgot how to build up to a tense finale.
Hell, even if we didn't have to get a clipshow, I get the feeling we would have gotten some Wu comedy filler instead, because the writers apparently forgot how to build up to a tense finale.
Sky Interloper
Member
A connection with the Red Lotus would seem weird considering she is pretty much the antithesis of their ideals. It would be out of place with the development of the story if she reunited everything just to bring chaos and despair again.
An UNLIMITED POWER! end would be so over the top, even if we already have mechas
Astral Dog
Member
Maybe it was just Aang/ Raavas fault.:O
Amon wanted revenge for his father, that Aang failed to properly stop (if he had put him in jail, instead of just taking his bending, things would not be as bad)
Kuvira wants the Earth Kingom land that was taken by Aang and Zuko.
Unalaq wanted to free the spirits as Wan sealed them along with Vaatu.
Zaheer,uh, wanted to use Korra to bring chaos to the world and stop injustices. also,release Vaatu?
Icyflamez96
Member
Lol but it is that whacky. The design of the robot looks silly. The whole concept is kind of silly.
I don't hate the robot as much as I thought I would. I think it could make for a pretty epic finale as long as they don't pull out giant Korra... Or giant anything else for that matter. Unless if it's giant wave of lava. That would be acceptable.
Finally! Yes! I agree, it was too short I feel, and it had a great build up to it, too.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I hope Bryke learned their lesson and don't have the spirits like join into Korra and making super Korra.
Yeah I absolutely loved Book 1 till those final couple of episodes which went and ruined it.
Amon was a fun villain to watch, the animation and fight choreography was great and that score which i'll never stop harking on about.
Two good season and maybe some select episodes from Book 2 for me. I still don't think the second half of Book 2 is that bad, It's a definite improvement over the first half but then it gets overshadowed by the finale because Bryke decided to just give in the writing department. Deus-ex-Jinora gah still find it crazy they couldn't be bothered to think of an explanation about that. Music was good though ha.
I could have gotten jiggy with all of these contained seasons and multiple villains if it all built toward something. They were going that way with Toph telling Korra to learn from her villains and past experiences, but it stopped there. Korra doesn't come to conclusions on her own, she is guided like a mule. She doesn't reflect, she doesn't look for Balance.
If Korra actually grew organically, it would all be worth it. You never get the sense that she's taking on more responsibility or gaining more wisdom. The currency of putting her through all these dramatically dangerous situations is wasted as she never comes into her own. It's feasible they're going to do all this in the finale, but it will feel contrived.
You should see her growth episode to episode.
I've been saying this since the episode aired. I just wasn't as over the top with it as TAK.
That's interesting. The fight already went on too long. The entire thing was like, almost boring because of how much it was repeat/loop. Korra bests Unalaq. Korra then gets smacked down. Korra then gets beat down until its over. NOPE...Korra comes back, starts to rek. Korra gets smacked down. Korra gets beat down until all hope is lost.
It almost started to become comical, because of how long they kept extending this fight and how low they were trying to make Korra's suffering. Like the lengths they went to make her suffer, was almost kind of funny (which wasn't the effect they should have been going for). It was also insulting too, because they kept stacking on the suffering to comical levels, only to paint themselves into a corner they couldn't logically get out of (hence the need for Jinora to come in and undo the mess they made).
And then, the Blue Kaiju fight just looks fuckin ridiculous. Korra squatting, and moving like a Robot Shooting Smurf juice out her chest. I mean, I respect your opinion. But I just can't agree with you. I think the fighting in this episode needed to be drastically cut down, if anything.
I watch this fight, and I go back and watch the short fight Between Wan/Raava vs. Vaatu, and even that short fight was infinitely more compelling, and looked a lot more interesting. Also, kind of sad how like...in just 2 episodes, you cared more about Wan and Raava, more then you did Korra vs Unalaq (since they did such a bad job tying these characters to Convergence).
I'm really confused by people calling Amon deep. He's just about the shallowest and most cliched villain in either series. His movement was fake, his motives were fake, and he was just basically daddy issues redux. There is no depth there.
Like, I'm not saying Kuvira is deep either, but I actually find her at least more *plausible*. She's actually the first villain of the series who seems like the hero of her own story, even as she does some pretty awful shit.
Infinite Justice
Member
just like the equalist stuff as a movement
hmmm
leave it to head canon to bring up slightly more interesting stuff lol
To be fair sometimes you just have to shut down your brain and just let go.
But once you start defending it from any or all criticism especially when said criticism is usually valid that's when you fucked up.
Earlier I saw it more of being a agent and getting a country under Red Lotus control before going after the other leaders, or she changed her view and decided to defect and take that power instead.
But she's doing the latter anyways but without much reasoning driving her so *shrug*
Admiral Woofington
Member
I have a very particular issue with anime and that's when they go "full anime" and introduce shit like giant creatures or robots in a world that was doing just fine without it. So when Korra, a western cartoon, went full anime I was fucking disappointed
I almost feel like season 4 should have been season 2 and season 2 should have been season 4. At least then the pacing and lack of stakes would make more sense, and season 2's over-the-top direction would make sense if it were the finale of the show. Plus, Korra's whole development in season 4 would have been perfect if it was in response to losing her bending.
Season 3 feels like an anomaly in this show, because it gets so much right that every other season (Including season 1) gets wrong.
Season 3 feels like an anomaly in this show, because it gets so much right that every other season (Including season 1) gets wrong.
Amon had the allusion/illusion of being deep. Or rather, his movement felt like something substantial and meaningful. It backed his actions throughout the season. Whereas Kuvira has nothing backing her, except she's just a psychopath that wants power.
Everyone agrees that Amon wasn't deep in the end, when we found out his motivations. Although I would argue, while Amon's back story was a joke (how it was told), at least his personal motivations gave him some reason to push for what he was doing. We know nothing about Kuvira. And she's super one note. What we do know of Kuvira, really doesn't make a whole lot of sense (her going from a content officer in Zao Fu, to being a raging psycopath who's only motivation is to become powerful).
Also this goes back to what I said earlier, Amon had a great design and was fun to watch. So he still ticks off a lot of boxes, that Kuvira really lacks.
And if Kuvira is the hero of her own story, law have mercy. The way her story has played out so far, it's just been janky.
JadedWriter
Member
Dat ice cold Kuvira laser canon divorce.
It really didn't back his actions throughout the season, though. His actual motivation was just raw lust for power from the beginning, and he used people to achieve it. On that front he is no different to Kuvira. Where he and Kuvira differ is that Kuvira clearly drinks her own kool-aid.
I find this tendency to judge something purely on its unrealized potential strange. Amon isn't Amon minus the last couple of episodes he was in, his backstory and his ending are a part of his character and they define him more than that he's a "cool looking guy in a mask". Wishing he were only what he had the potential to be may as well be wishing he were actually a dragon in disguise or something silly like that.
I don't really see how you could read it any other way. She clearly believes she's uniting the earth kingdom under her benevolent rule. That's practically text. She's not worshipping an evil demon and her dad didn't bloodbend her into evil.
And everything about Korra is janky. It always has been.
m_shortpants
Member
Yeah, that's exactly my issue. I was okay with the mecha tanks in season 1 since they ran on tracks and sort of matched the "aesthetic" of the world with their old-school dive suit helmets and everything.
We didn't get any outlandish technology that I can recall in season 2 or 3, but in this season we had CGI mech suits that walked on two legs. They felt out of place slightly but I was okay with it. The giant one now, oh boy, it just looks so weird in Korra. I said it earlier, but bi-planes were literally invented 3-4 years ago (Korra time) in season one.
Biplanes -> 24 story mech
My issue isn't necessarily even the laser. Just the mech. I think a nuke would have worked better. Dark Knight Rises style or something.
I love how she tells Bataar she loves him right as she fires the canon. <3
m_shortpants
Member
Yup. Amon felt like a threat and was SCARY every time he was on screen, all the way until his end even. That kind of menace is nowhere to be seen with Kuvira. I mean, they even showed us she could be bested by Korra in 2 seconds in avatar state. That was the middle of the season too.
Sky Interloper
Member
I wouldn't call Amon the main point of interest here, but the movement itself. The idea of oppression was the allure of the first season with Amon as a spearhead, the face of the revolution; he played with the ideas of the non-bending populace.
Of course Amon - as a person - was botched in execution, as shown in the finale. The issues were still there, even if they were tossed by the writers in later seasons. And I believe that's why many people have problems with Kuvira - the point of conflict just seems forced in comparison.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Like I mentioned earlier, the spirit beam will reconnect Korra with all of the previous Avatars.
Do you really think that Kuvira, believes she's doing this for the greater good of the Earth Kingdom? Or do you think this is all about her wanting as much power as possible?
I feel like there is such a disconnect here. Like the Kuvira we saw in that brief flashback, kind of hinted at their being more to her (like her motivation). But they quickly jumped to her being this psychopath that only seems to want power. I guess I see where you are coming from.
But I just don't feel like the whole earth kingdom being united, really feels like a fleshed out plot, or feels tied to the character in a meaningful way. I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong? And if that is really what this is all about, I guess I just wish they would have done more with the earth kingdom story. So far we've just got a bunch of back and forth jumping from Korra/republic city, to Kuvira off in the distance "working on something".
EDIT: Also I love your post. This is what I wanted from this thread. Just talking shit out.
This is a whole different argument to whether either of them have depth. Something does not have to be deep to be scary (in fact, an argument could be made in entirely the opposite direction).
If you want to argue that Amon is scarier than Kuvira then argue that. Don't puff up the argument with the idea that he is also somehow deeper.
I don't really think Kuvira's purpose is to be 'scary' in an aesthetic jump-scare kind of way, at any rate (and yes, I'd argue that Amon is). She represents a very modern threat: A true believer who can motivate (in both good and bad ways) people to follow them. I don't really find the idea that the Earth Kingdom, recently relieved of their monarchy and having recently had land taken away from them as a result of another nation's war, would turn to a megalomaniac nationalist surprising or hard to believe. Certainly no harder to believe than that non-benders ruled over by a council of benders would do the same.
Amon has a stronger (and scarier) aesthetic, I won't argue with that. But they're really quite similar in most other ways.
I agree that it's a much less personal story to Korra than the others, and compared to AtLA's with Aang. But the back half of the series seems to be (badly) trying to ask the question of whether the Avatar fits in this world, and it seems necessary that we should see a story of an Avatar acting in the role it's supposed to: Policing the world, including the parts that don't directly affect the Avatar.
And I think that if you believe in a cause to the exclusion of all else, it's pretty natural to see the accumulation of power to enact your vision as necessary. That's what makes true believers so scary. They want all the power and they will wield it to reshape the world in their vision.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
A villian's whole motivation being "I need power" isn't necessarily a bad thing and if done right bring great villians, like Dio from Jojo's or Vergil from Devil May Cry. Kuvira is not the case, we just know she kinda needs power
I never said that a villain needs to have depth. I think, it's better when they do. But I do think that, if a villain is not going to have depth, they need to be entertaining (either by design, of their actions).
I think Amon very much ticks those box's off. Also, for most of the season, Amon felt like he had depth (because the movement he was claiming to be pushing, was interesting and felt like a compelling issue). So even if he doesn't have depth, it feeling like he had depth goes along way to push his actions throughout the season, and how we view him (or perceived him throughout up to the end). Even if in the end, we can say he really didn't have depth.
I don't feel like Kuvira has depth or is interesting at all. The latter part, I know is 100% subjective. I think, some definitely find Kuvira fun to watch, and she has a great design. I still don't think that she has any depth at all when it comes to her motivation (which is power and greed).
You do bring up the fact of her wanting to United the Earth Empire. But that shit feels really shallow, and I have a real disconnect between that, and her as a character. Whereas I at least felt like prior to the Book 1's ending, Amon felt very shrouded in the issues Republic City was going through.
Unalaq was so bad that the parody version of him in Varrick's mover was a better character.
Kuvira's fine as an early season villain like Zhao in the first show. She just doesn't work as a final villain, kinda like how Ozai was so disappointing (But at least Ozai had an entire show of buildup).
Kuvira's fine as an early season villain like Zhao in the first show. She just doesn't work as a final villain, kinda like how Ozai was so disappointing (But at least Ozai had an entire show of buildup).
Infinite Justice
Member
I think this is an issue where the movement and the man got way too intertwined with each other to the point where all the stuff he did was more seen as what the movement represented and once he showed his hand (since the season needs a 100% bad guy apparently) everything just fucking crumbled.
Also how he showed his hand just undermined everything to an offensive degree.
Yes, very much so.
Because we knew nothing about Amon, most of the movement and it's issues, felt like was is deeply tied to the character (since he was the face of the character). Whereas with Kuvira, the flimsy "uniting the Earth empire and bringing order" plot...doesn't really feel connected to Kuvira the way it should.
Because you don't believe it right out the gate. They've already shown us that Kuvira is just power hungry and greedy. And a psychopath. So it makes Kuvira feel more one note than Amon (as we are watching the season play out). I think even with everything we know about both though, I would still say Amon is more compelling that Kuvira.
For one, he has a much cooler design. He was more menacing. He was more fun to watch. And while I thought his backstory was pure shit (more so, how it was told), I think that is at least something, that shows us how Amon was shaped, and why he's doing what he does. With Kuvira, we were just alluded to her being normal once (and it seeming like she had some other higher reason), and then it quickly jumps to her going from a content commander, to wanting to dominate the world.
Such a huge jump off with no real build up.
I find it bizarre looking at flashback Kuvira with Su, and the Kuvira we know. Like...really baffling bizarre. Like who is this person?
Okay, yes, season three was good. Still just bitter about how Zaheer went out with a whimper instead of a bang.
Icyflamez96
Member
So Korra is gonna get shot with the spirit cannon and she's just going to absorb it or negate if because the avatar can harness spirit energy or something.
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