SoulUnison
Banned
That's the fan theory - it's never been explored in-series the way the other bending "extras" have.
Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
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That's the fan theory - it's never been explored in-series the way the other bending "extras" have.
badcrumble
Member
Hahaha yeah that's probably not far off what'll happen. The finale's almost certainly going to come down to Korra getting over her fear issues (personified by that thingy) and then, as often happens, Avatar State deus ex machine.
Strongly suspect, though, that the spirits are gonna get involved too. Maybe reconnect Korra to her past lives again?
JadedWriter
Member
At least she gets the best fan art:
I just wish I had more emotional investment in the plot going into this series finale. I really don't know what I'm supposed to care about.
I'm just showing up for some awesome fights. I have no idea how they plan on bringing this all around, and coming up with an ending that kind of ties Korra journey into something meaningful.
I'm just showing up for some awesome fights. I have no idea how they plan on bringing this all around, and coming up with an ending that kind of ties Korra journey into something meaningful.
JadedWriter
Member
I challenge you to watch some Gundam shows when this is done. Not the newer ones, the older ones at least, because sometimes the characters just do the oddest shit. I enjoy them, but damn. They're entertaining though. This is how some random argument got solved:
I challenge you to watch some Gundam shows when this is done. Not the newer ones, the older ones at least, because sometimes the characters just do the oddest shit. I enjoy them, but damn. They're entertaining though. This is how some random argument got solved:
lol
I just think the problem with Korra, is that they want you to care. SO they have these plot points and stories that are supposed to get you to care. So clearly they want that continuity and want you to feel invested.
But I'm just not. Which is strange. Because I was one that found Korra grating in Book 2. Like...they almost killed the character for me. I didn't hate her in Book 1, but I did find aspects of her grating (but I was willing to accept it here, because she was still young and learning. And the way she was raised, kind of sheltered her. So her frustrations and stuff made sense. Book 2 was just worse, because they made her go 500 mph asshole status, and also just had her revert back any changes or growth she made from Book 1).
Then Book 3, really changed my mind on her character. I thought the character was still extremely clunky, but I was willing to look past the botched arc for her and accept the new Korra. And I really came to root for her, and like her. And during the Book 3 finale, her being broken REALLY impacted me. I felt really bad for her.
So it's kind of crazy to me to like, be at Book 4. And then start to not care anymore because of how they handled the plot (how redundant it felt, how oddly paced and structured it was. How frustrating it became. And also just how, scattershot it all was, so it never felt like they nailed it on an emotional level).
So I got into this series finale and it's like, I feel numb about Korra. I don't really care one way or the other. Because I'm not really sure what she's working towards. I guess it's to overcome her demons or whatever. But it's like, the way they handled that plot, I just don't feel that invested.
And Kuvira, she's a fuckin mess. Me and Toa TAK had a big discussion about her on Xbox Live (believe it or not, he's actually very reasonable. And isn't an insane fanatic lol). But we both talked about what a wasted opportunity Kuvira was. There was so much they could have done with her. She came from the Earth Kingdom. She lived under the Tyranny of the queen. Presumably she got forced out of Ba Sing Se. She was adopted by Su basically and taken in (odd, since I never got the sense that, they were all that close. But yeah, we are told she basically saw her as a daughter lmao).
But they didn't give us jack shit with her character. No background, nothing. Nothing to show us how she shaped up to be the person she is today. And EVEN if a character is just a psychopath that just wants power (so no deep plot or motivation), you can still show us how this character was shaped by their experiences to become that crazy person (they could have easily done a plot where she was embarrassed by the queen, and left poor. Her family was ruined under the monarchy, and she was reduced to nothing. So her initial want is to take over the kingdom when it needs leadership as she doesn't want it going back to the old ways that ruined her family, but she then in turn becomes the very thing she hated blah blah). But even something like that, would at least give us something.
Anyways, the ONLY thing we know about Kuvira, is that quick flashback with her and Su. And the scene implies that Kuvira had a genuine feeling that they had an obligation to step up and help the kingdom out (so it shows her caring about the kingdom, and not power). Kuvira at this point, is shown to be a content captain under Su's leadership. She seems happy.
So we go from that Kuvira, to the raging Psychopath that says "I always get what I want". And there is just this massive disconnect. You could argue she still believes she's doing what is for the greater good of the kingdom. But they haven't even really done a lot with that, that I just believe she's just a psychopath. Because, why would she come to the conclusion that she needs to get rid of all the non earth benders. What the fuck does that have to do with the greater good of her kingdom? That she has that purist philosophy out of nowhere. Again, that disconnect.
We are going into the end, we know little to nothing about Kuvira. She's been reduced to a raging psychopath that just wants ultimate power. And I just don't feel invested in her. Like even as a threat, I just don't care. She's basically some random side character that has a chip on her shoulder, and wants power. And Korra only hasn't stopped her, because she is broken. If she had not been broken, this would have been over already.
So it's like, okay. This is the end of the show eh? This is what the season was working towards eh?
It's soooo bizarre. Sigh. Thing is, Kuvira had so much potential. And even the earth kingdom being in disarray and Korra not knowing what role she had (or what right she had to even step in to deal with something that political). All of that was fascinating. But that's not what they went with. This wasn't about Korra not knowing how to deal with political strife. This wasn't about Korra not knowing what her right was to step in. This wasn't about Kuvira really believing in a system and doing what she has to, because she rejected the old system, the one that the world leaders want to push.
It's a crazy psychopath that wants world domination, and an Avatar that is broken. That's the plot pretty much.
JadedWriter
Member
I honestly think after showing Korra get healed in that flashback most of the story should've just focused on Kuvira because nobody needs to see most of that core cast, though I will admit Bolin's growth isn't that bad but still, but hey it's not the Legend of Kuvira sadly. Yeah she had so much potential in this thing. The fan art shows it, show itself? Nope. It pisses me off a lot too because I like a good villain and I do tend to root for them knowing they have to fail, but I like seeing what motivates them and what moment in their past twisted them to believe what they are doing makes sense. I'd like to think Kuvira's parents were killed in front of her. I didn't think she grew up in a family of status, but that would make some sense too. She pretty much went from good character to this:
JadedWriter
Member
I already posted a good one up top.
I honestly think after showing Korra get healed in that flashback most of the story should've just focused on Kuvira because nobody needs to see most of that core cast, though I will admit Bolin's growth isn't that bad but still, but hey it's not the Legend of Kuvira sadly. Yeah she had so much potential in this thing. The fan art shows it, show itself? Nope. It pisses me off a lot too because I like a good villain and I do tend to root for them knowing they have to fail, but I like seeing what motivates them and what moment in their past twisted them to believe what they are doing makes sense. I'd like to think Kuvira's parents were killed in front of her. I didn't think she grew up in a family of status, but that would make some sense too. She pretty much went from good character to this:
I think, either they needed to focus more on Kuvira (and the plot of the earth Kingdom), or they should have just done a better job with Korra's plot.
I get the sense that, they ultimately wanted this season to be about Korra's struggles. But it's just been so scattershot and done poorly, that I don't care. So now you are in a situation where the main conflict/plot is lackluster and not really fleshed out, and a main protagonist that is well, I dunno. lol
Fuck. Fuckin Bryke. you had ONE JOB.
EDIT: Apart of me wonders, if there shouldn't have been a 4th season. It almost feels like they ran out of material to tell. Like this season was just kind of stretched out for the sake of having more episodes. But I'm not really sure this story needed to be told (or it's something they actually wanted to tell).
Deflecting?
#JudgingYou
Azula and JadedWriter already said all that needed to be said about Kuvira, and even I said... things (but not in writing muahaha).
So just need some fanart to ease my heart.
The heck. You can't just decide something is not-canon. This is just ridiculous. I don't see this kind of thinking any different than someone who decides they consider TLOK not canon because they hate Aang and Katara as a couple.
The creators did things that I found to be completely illogical and poorly developed with the story. If I was writing it, there are a thousand things I would do differently but it is still their story- not mine.
This is true of other stories I like such as Star Wars and Harry Potter where I think the author/creator completely trashed their own work but it's not like I can declare parts of it non-canon just cause.
I would love to read an essay about this process. Is it totally unique for each author, or is there a roughly common psychological basis you could probe?
m_shortpants
Member
Fuck it, they should've just left it at the one season mini series LOL
I think I'd forsake season 3 even to get rid of season 2 and 4 from my brain
I challenge you to watch some Gundam shows when this is done. Not the newer ones, the older ones at least, because sometimes the characters just do the oddest shit. I enjoy them, but damn. They're entertaining though. This is how some random argument got solved:
lol wtf this is amazing.
Season 4 is not at bad as Season 2, though (minus the awesome finale).
Kuvira would break out, though.
Naw naw, it'd be a plastic prison. She'd be in there with Magneto.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I doubt there's enough time for a redemption arc. Maybe his 'redemption' will be aiding Varric and/or Asami with constructing something to fight the mecha, or simply giving instructions to the krew on how to take it down from the inside.
There's only enough time at this point for "flaming kick-a-pow" and "flaming kiss-a-pow"
Book 4's problem is that it's the last one... if it weren't I wouldn't be sad/worried/frustrated about some of its flaws, although I still like it. I would just be "oh well, there's a next season."
Oddly enough, I now actually want more LoK after Book 3 and 4, mostly because I'm not satisfied with how they left several characters and the huge potential Korra's world still has. Just look at all that incredible fanart.
Oddly enough, I now actually want more LoK after Book 3 and 4, mostly because I'm not satisfied with how they left several characters and the huge potential Korra's world still has. Just look at all that incredible fanart.
Didn't stop him from breaking out.
Yeah but who's gonna be mystique and poison a security cop's blood with iron
Bataar Jr. will crawl back to her, I'm sure.
m_shortpants
Member
Someone will just invent plastic bending and replace the avatar with their raw ability to bend human man materials
but... he'll be in prison...
JadedWriter
Member
Zeta gundam son. Old school gundam is every bit as crazy as metal gear.
I remember being introduced via Kajetokun's edits.
Fuck I dunno, maybe Kuvira can clone herself or something. Stop poking holes in my plans.
Vaatu will put on a twirly mustache, possess a guard, and break her out.
"Why didn't you do that before?!"
"I dunno"
JadedWriter
Member
A drinking game is every time someone gets slapped you take a shot. You'll be hammered in no time. Good show though.
And then they fuse together to become the Dark Avatar. Again.
You should illustrate children's books.
The one thing I will definitely give LoK is how well they "got" trailers down. Especially in season 3 and 4. Strong music and little short cuts here and there.
I dont think season 3 trailer had any spoilerish material beyond the episode of bolin and mako vs Zaheer people.
Sure I can. So can you, and anyone, including the Katang haters. I think that's a very petty and stupid reason to declare something noncanon, but they have a right to do it.
The idea that canon somehow belongs to the authors alone is an outdated one. It's really just something we use as a legal basis to say which IP belongs to who. In terms of artistry, it's a different story.
Let me give you an example. Is your argument that Bryke has total power over their work? Well, what if tomorrow Bryke comes out and claims that Aang was a dolphin this entire time. Nothing is actually changed, Aang still looks like a human and talks like a human and everything, but Bryke insists that Aang is a dolphin. According to the traditional logic of canon, if the writers have total power over their creation, and if they claim something, then it must be true. So do we accept their version of events? No, of course not. Aang is a human because we see that him being a dolphin would be logically inconsistant with the events that we see. Bryke can insist Aang is something he's not all they want, but we don't have to accept his word as gospel.
This is how LoK is flawed, albiet to a much smaller degree. it makes too many inconsistancies as compared to the old work that I can't believe that it is a real continuation of the series, and Bryke can say what they want on the matter, it doesn't change the fact that some things here just don't make sense. So I reject their version of events, their canon. If someone thinks Katang is also such a strong logical inconsistancy that they choose to reject the last few minutes of TLA cementing the pairing, then it's their choice, even if we disagree with it. They can even replace that version of events with one that exists in their heads that works out with Zutara or whatever they wanted to happen.
All this really means is that they can't generalize this new canon to be something everyone has seen and is aware of. No, it's just a version that exists in their own minds and no one elses. They can't insist that they're version is the legitimate version for anyone else but themselves. Which takes away the community aspect of it, but otherwise, there are no canon police that will come to arrest them. They're allowed to do this. And this happens more often than you think. Again, this community is far more sharp minded than others, so we usually examine the events episodes show critically, but in other series, people often misinterpret things they literally just saw happen, or if they just forget something that happened in a movie/tv show because they haven't seen it in a long time. Those are unintentional alterations of canon within the minds of individuals, but still alterations.
Ultimately, canon is just a memory. A mental representation of a work in your mind. And you are free to manipulate it how you want. If you dislike one version of a story so much that you don't want to accept it, you don't have to. Alter the model to suit your tastes.
It's a western show which is generally playing to the intuition of western people, so for the edification of this thread the explanation of the delineation between attachment and love would be valuable. You used this "you don't get zen buddhism" thing before and it was just as hand wavey. Like this example you gave:
The negotiation of a person and their proclivities is an ever modulating attribute. People like things, love things, and fall out of love and dislike things over and over again throughout life. But love is attachment. You cannot divorce the two. Even if you're not eating ice cream every day, your thoughts of ice cream produce favorable chemistry in your brain which we assosciate with affection, even love. That is a mental attachment to ice cream; even if you personally override your instincts to indulge in eating ice cream, you still love ice cream.
It's made by western people for a western audience, but it uses a lot of eastern ideas. Perhaps you have a point that they should have been more clear, but that's not an issue of inconsistancy, just clarity. And it's not a shot at you, it's just how it is. It was difficult for me to grasp as well.
Again, your conflating love and attachment of being one and the same, which is what is producing the logical inconsistancy in your mind. Attachment in the context of buddhism is related to desire, not the love of something, and it is considered to be the source of suffering. This is separate from the pleasure you experience through something. In the context of my example, if I let go of my attachment, I would eat and enjoy ice cream without wanting or desiring ice cream.
To understand this point, you just have to conceptualize people rejecting their desire experiences that are pleasurable. It's difficult to do because it's intuitive to think that that which is pleasurable is inherently desirable.This is letting go of desire, but keeping the pleasure. It requires to think like so: This makes me happy and I don't want it. (Do not want it in this context means just a lack of desire for it, not that you want it to go away, which would be a different kind of desire.)
I wish I had more time to talk about how this relates to Aang's choice with Katara, but like I said, busy until friday. If this conversation is still alive by then, I'll post something.
Sure. It's intuitive that people would desire something pleasurable, because that's the bedrock driving force of the human condition. But it's easy to conceptualize liking something you don't desire. We've all been there, it's why "getting something you didn't even know you wanted" is a saying.
But Aang absolutely didn't give up his attachment or desire for Katara in any sense. In fact, his desire only grew (Black Sun, Ember Island Players). And yet, Avatar state, so...
I understand.
Again, it's possible he can only set aside his attachment (Not his love) momentarily for the AS, the same way a meditative state is a different mindset than normal state, and take back his attachment once he's done.
Also, 'getting something you didn't know you wanted' is a saying counterproductive to letting go of desire in the buddhist context. Once you let go of desire, you don't 'want' anything. You can experience pleasant things but you don't want them. Getting something you didn't know you wanted is just finding out a different dimension of desire you weren't aware of.
I don't think Veelk is claiming that the Avatar universe that Konietzko and DiMartino have in mind doesn't include Korra. He's just saying that the one he's got in mind, and the one he thinks makes for a better story, doesn't include Korra. The important point is that there's nothing saying Veelk's Avatar universe is less legitimate. Sure, their story is their story. Veelk's story is Veelk's story.
And, really, it's hard to see why the original creators ought to have any kind of authority over derivative stories, especially when the derivative stories are arguably better than the original. It's obviously important to recognize that people will default to understanding the original works as the canonical works in general conversations, when they otherwise have no idea where you're coming from, but I think Veelk has generally been pretty clear as to which story he's talking about.
Like, what's the positive defense of canonicity for fiction on grounds other than the quality of the canonical work?
Admiral Woofington
Member
I'm with the opinion that the lore and mechanics of the universe in general in AtLA are more to my liking that what they did with Korra. The whole Raava/Vaatu idea just doesn't do it for me. Neither does the way they transformed the Avatar State.
Slamtastic
Member
Ready for Friday!
I am so down with this.Ready for Friday!
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