I await the fan fiction "Doing the thing: An erotic engineering manual"
Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows
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I await the fan fiction "Doing the thing: An erotic engineering manual"
I don't look at it as appeasement. I look at it as the first time Korra gets to look to the future and be happy. And I'm happy for her. It's made better with the fact that she's spending this time with the person who makes her happiest, a person who also deserves something good in her life. Be it friendship or something more, that's how I look at the ending.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Dat ending..........................................................
I'm glad Korra and Asami have such friendship........
SATCH KNEW ALL ALONG .
I'm glad Korra and Asami have such friendship........
SATCH KNEW ALL ALONG .
After the discussion about the finale progresses in the next couple of days, I think Azula's point and others will also morph or filter into something pretty simple: We want more, because honestly, Book 4 didn't feel like a finale Book.
There were just a bit too many "loose ends", or more specifically yeah, we didn't get that much closure on characters. And the problem is that they actually did a pretty good job of getting us interested in almost every character in the series, but didn't exactly made us feel like we can say goodbye just yet. I'm happy with how Korra herself ended up, and the action, music and animation were breathtaking, but I guess, Azula's take that this season finale was baffling is one of the ways I would describe it. Not bad, not perfect, but I wish we would've gotten more.
Shouta
Member
Fight Choreography? I think ATLA actually wins that out. Blind Bandit and a bunch of other eps had great fight choreography in them. I think Korra does it more in a realistic fashion than ATLA does it but is it better, not really to me.
LoK is more than the physical fight. The tactical battle (Team Korra and friends all working together to take colossal manifestation of Kuvira, including someone actually giving up his life) and the mental battle (Korra recovering from previous loss to take on Kuvira) all added to the emotional crescendo of the final fight. Really well done.
Say what you will about the execution (which was no less Deus ex Machina than the ATLA ending) LoK clearly tackled many more mature themes which was your original complaint. Season 1, 3, 4, in particulars delivered on the high ambitions.
SilentMatthew
Member
Yeah.. doesn't feel like a finale for the whole sha-bang. I'm waiting for the next season that's coming next month, forever.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I felt that there was decent conclusion for all of the main characters. We see everyone. Plus this isn't an end to their being Team Avatar it would have felt weird for everyone to say goodbye.
It actually reminds me of the end of Stargate SG-1 a bit. Everyone is just doing their thing and the last shot is of the team walking through the Gate together, like they always do.
There are more adventures waiting and more stories to be told. This wasn't some grand going our own ways finale like Battlestar Galactica.
It actually reminds me of the end of Stargate SG-1 a bit. Everyone is just doing their thing and the last shot is of the team walking through the Gate together, like they always do.
There are more adventures waiting and more stories to be told. This wasn't some grand going our own ways finale like Battlestar Galactica.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
This fight stuff is reminding me of the Star Wars prequels. You can't deny the fighting in the prequels was much better, but at the same time it falls flat due to the movie not properly establishing why we should care about them.
I just want to be clear too.
As an episode, they were great. Just like most of Book 4's episodes. As 44 min of pacing, action, and entertainment. It was great. Most of Book 4 was technically competent. You look at Book 2, and like...it wasn't just bad in terms of the plot. Actually, I think Book 2 had a lot of great ideas plot wise. But it was the actual execution. The actual writing was atrocious. Episodes collapsed within themselves, and were a mess.
Book 4 carried over the quality of Book 3. I stand by that. Every single episode had good pacing/writing...and felt like competent episodes. So the same can be said for this finale. It was a competent production.
The issue I have is just that, when you get down to the actual plot, characters, themes and the pay off. You know, the stuff that really moves you, and makes you fall in love with a series and its characters...was lacking. This season on a whole, just seemed to lack a purpose.
Looking back I will say, the only reason this season existed was for Korra. Korra and her demons. Korra reacting to everything up to that point. Korra trying to find her purpose. Trying to find her relevancy. Because while Korra had DONE more then Aang, she also failed into a lot of her success's. She...showed up as an Avatar, and lost so much to succeed.
So the loose thread to this show, was Korra. Korra figuring out who she was. Who she wants to be. Finding her own kind of relevancy. Overcoming her demons. To me, that entire plot felt extremely scattershot, and oddly paced in the season. It kept being pushed aside for a half baked plot with Kuvira that never amounted to anything or had any substance. The whole earth kingdom plot (on a political level)...was never touched. They didn't want to get into that. So if the Earth Kingdom's political situation, and the plot of their freedom, and how the Avatar fits into that....didn't exist. So it then defaulted back To Kuvira and her own personal motivations. But...she was so one dimensional.
Then you think okay, so why was so much of this season about Kuvira? Why was so much of Korra's plot, pushed to the side? And by the time Korra got back to Republic City, it truly felt like it kind of just shifted to the back. So as the Series ends, I never felt like they gave us any kind of conclusion to this character. Any kind of resolution. Not to her book 4 plot. Not to her character as a whole.
That is what ultimately bugs me. Because this season was written well, I could have dealt with Kuvira feeling like a shallow plot. But I could not deal with them botching Korra and her story. In the end I just felt like, what was this series about? What was Korra's final story about?
This Finale was technically good. But it really had nothing to say. And that is why I'm let down.
So Korra…
While I thought these last two episodes were entertaining (cool fights, nice set pieces) I think the finale really drove home the sense of nothingness I’ve felt all season. While book 4 wasn’t “bad” It might be the biggest example of wasted potential yet. Book 4 felt like filler before the end. Book 3 (which I loved) ended on a strong question of “Is the avatar relevant anymore?” and while Book 4 tries to pick up that idea, it quickly stumbles and loses the message. That would have made excellent fodder for a final season but instead we get swept away with poorly written politics and a cardboard cutout villain.
I think a lot of this stems from Kuvira, the worst villain to ever appear in the Avatarverse. Kuvira is one of the most shallow, one dimensional villains ever. Her motivations surprisingly boring and there is no depth to any aspect of the character. She is the evil dictator archetype through and through. I never felt the sense of dread that the other villains imposed on the show (yes even Unalaaq is better) because she is so vanilla. We get almost no backstory on her character until the very end where we get the classic “I’m an orphan and my parents never loved me” line. The finale had her stomping her way through republic city blowing stuff up, but why? What was her end goal? Was she going to a specific location in Republic City? Kuvira’s presence brings up the larger issue of the politics being extremely poorly written but I’m not even going to get into that.
This season started very strong, but Korra’s recovery plotline and Kuvira’s takeover plotline were so drawn out with very little content that the majority of this season felt so slow. I really dislike how we had the whole fanservice in the swamp arc for Korra’s recovery but it ended up not mattering at all. The parallels they were trying to draw between Korra and Kuvira felt so forced. Oh Kuvira is stubborn and rash, and Korra was once stubborn and rash, uh okay I guess, if that’s the best you can come up with. Every plotline felt so underdeveloped.
Then we get to the finale in which lacks any emotional payoff. When I finished ATLA for the first time I said “wow that was one of the best shows I've seen.” When I finished LoK I said “well, alright then.” We didn't get any closure on any of the characters in a meaningful way. In particular I would have liked to see more Mako and Bolin (which is pretty funny because they actually grew on me a lot, especially Mako). Mako might have been one of the worst characters in Korra before, but I thought he worked really well as the down-on-his-luck straight man to Wu’s craziness. The Korrasami ending was cool, but was completely out of nowhere. If this show focused on a few characters the whole time maybe they could have earned that plotline, but because they were spread so then with a large cast none of the characters felt truly developed. The end felt like just pandering fanservice.
In the end I feel nothing, I liked Korra overall but this finale just brought home the fact the Book 4 was largely a throw away plot with no meaningful addition to the story in the way that the previous three seasons were (even 2, despite how horrible it is, with its portal opening stuff). It was a nothing finale to a nothing season. Avatar is one of my favorite fictional stories and I thought I would be sadder at it ending then I am. As it stands, the ending of Colbert was way more emotional than this.
I guess I’ll put my season rankings here:
ATLA 2 = ATLA 3
LoK 3
ATLA 1
LoK 1
LoK 4
LoK 2
While I thought these last two episodes were entertaining (cool fights, nice set pieces) I think the finale really drove home the sense of nothingness I’ve felt all season. While book 4 wasn’t “bad” It might be the biggest example of wasted potential yet. Book 4 felt like filler before the end. Book 3 (which I loved) ended on a strong question of “Is the avatar relevant anymore?” and while Book 4 tries to pick up that idea, it quickly stumbles and loses the message. That would have made excellent fodder for a final season but instead we get swept away with poorly written politics and a cardboard cutout villain.
I think a lot of this stems from Kuvira, the worst villain to ever appear in the Avatarverse. Kuvira is one of the most shallow, one dimensional villains ever. Her motivations surprisingly boring and there is no depth to any aspect of the character. She is the evil dictator archetype through and through. I never felt the sense of dread that the other villains imposed on the show (yes even Unalaaq is better) because she is so vanilla. We get almost no backstory on her character until the very end where we get the classic “I’m an orphan and my parents never loved me” line. The finale had her stomping her way through republic city blowing stuff up, but why? What was her end goal? Was she going to a specific location in Republic City? Kuvira’s presence brings up the larger issue of the politics being extremely poorly written but I’m not even going to get into that.
This season started very strong, but Korra’s recovery plotline and Kuvira’s takeover plotline were so drawn out with very little content that the majority of this season felt so slow. I really dislike how we had the whole fanservice in the swamp arc for Korra’s recovery but it ended up not mattering at all. The parallels they were trying to draw between Korra and Kuvira felt so forced. Oh Kuvira is stubborn and rash, and Korra was once stubborn and rash, uh okay I guess, if that’s the best you can come up with. Every plotline felt so underdeveloped.
Then we get to the finale in which lacks any emotional payoff. When I finished ATLA for the first time I said “wow that was one of the best shows I've seen.” When I finished LoK I said “well, alright then.” We didn't get any closure on any of the characters in a meaningful way. In particular I would have liked to see more Mako and Bolin (which is pretty funny because they actually grew on me a lot, especially Mako). Mako might have been one of the worst characters in Korra before, but I thought he worked really well as the down-on-his-luck straight man to Wu’s craziness. The Korrasami ending was cool, but was completely out of nowhere. If this show focused on a few characters the whole time maybe they could have earned that plotline, but because they were spread so then with a large cast none of the characters felt truly developed. The end felt like just pandering fanservice.
In the end I feel nothing, I liked Korra overall but this finale just brought home the fact the Book 4 was largely a throw away plot with no meaningful addition to the story in the way that the previous three seasons were (even 2, despite how horrible it is, with its portal opening stuff). It was a nothing finale to a nothing season. Avatar is one of my favorite fictional stories and I thought I would be sadder at it ending then I am. As it stands, the ending of Colbert was way more emotional than this.
I guess I’ll put my season rankings here:
ATLA 2 = ATLA 3
LoK 3
ATLA 1
LoK 1
LoK 4
LoK 2
Naw, Churchill hated Stalin's guts.
Churchill and FDR were the ones that got along well.
It was like one episode and they were side characters. Not that ground-breaking.
Sure, but this was an episode focused on a half baked character, and a lackluster resolution for the main character. So shifting away focus where we didn't get any closure to the characters, just felt strange. I think your idea of an ending only works, if the main conflict has a lot of emotional impact and weight. If the main character has a real sense of resolution.
Because this lacked all of those things, I think them not focusing on the other characters as the series ended, just made you feel even more disconnected from it all.
Yeah, I get that. But this is said as if Korra is emotionally vacant. And even beside all of that, he speaks to what ultimately makes Korra superior in the fighting department: "Spectacle is fun to watch, but it's less about the characters and more about how they're fighting."
This is exactly what Korra does! Character's mannerisms, their mental state, their own style, what they're fighting for flows through so genuinely in this show. It is subtle but effective - everyone feels unique and powerful in their own way. Take Tenzin fighting with Zaheer: he's protecting his family and people. His desperation shows through cleanly, and his superiority to Zaheer as an airbender is well communicated. Mako firebends from a boxing stance due to his time as a probender. Korra is powerful and athletic. Zaheer battles like a man untethered. Korra fought like the Hulk when she was poisoned.
Now if you cared more about the outcome of AtLA fights - if you found them more tense - I won't argue with you. But choreography, I feel, is something more objective than that, and is something that Korra gets exceedingly correct.
Astral Dog
Member
Hmm, im sure its getting a lot of conservative haters right now..
Understandable. The original ATLA helped me through an illness of my own. Not necessarily life-threatening like cancer, but it took its toll on me physically and emotionally. At one of my lowest points, my best friend recommended it to me when I was in a really bad place, just to take my mind off of things, and it worked. The series holds a very special place with me because of that.
So while I can't explicitly relate -- though Korra's PTSD and recovery themes really did hit home with me -- I have an understanding of where you're coming from with this.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Asami and Korra: Adventures in the Spirit World pls
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I edited that post more, but your quote is the gist save for this additional line I added:
Execution is kind of the whole point though isn't it? How Korra handled romance is more important than whether it had romance at all when evaluating it from a critical perspective. You could have your first episode start with characters spending 10 minutes describing a host of dark and gritty problems, but if you never actually do anything relating to them you can't describe it as actually being real themes.
Not sure what the DexM complaint is about, that seems unrelated, although I've complained about its use in TLA as well.
And I also want to point out I didn't say mature themes specifically, I said treating children in a mature manner. It's an important distinction. Korra had the pretense of serious issues at the forefront, but they never actually delved into them the same way TLA actually interrogated a theme like revenge/forgiveness for example, with Zuko and Katara going to find her mother's killer.
Legend of Korra was a lot less Mature than ATLA mostly because it was trying too hard to be mature without the writers actually knowing how to tackle those themes.
Atla was far more lighthearted, but it doesn't make it any less mature. No it's probably even more. It had some strange wording, but considering it talked raceism, genocide sexsim and other topics. While Korra failed to string along the basic idea of themeing is telling
Atla was far more lighthearted, but it doesn't make it any less mature. No it's probably even more. It had some strange wording, but considering it talked raceism, genocide sexsim and other topics. While Korra failed to string along the basic idea of themeing is telling
I still love the series on the whole. I'm still very fond of Book 1, and Book 3. I just wish we got more.
I wish, I understood what Bryke was thinking with this series. I do get that, they had budget cuts and time limitations. But even limitations, don't entirely excuse some of the more bizarre choices.
I still find it baffling how, they used Kuvira's mother issue plot, to tie into Korra's resolution. Especially when Kuvira was such a strange character. I ALWAYS GET WHAT I WANT. Slave Labor camps. Hitler style eugenics. BUT...she was just a scared girl, that had abandonment issues. Who wanted to protect herself. And that was Korra too.
Like huh? What.
See what I mean. Things that like truly baffle me. I don't get it. I don't understand what they were thinking. And I'm still really confused by Korra's suffer for compassion line, that really had no build up, or tie in to her Book 4 plot, or overall series plot. I just wish the character got more resolution and closure. I could have dealt with all the other writing issues. I could have dealt with Kuvira and her plot (which I still think was half baked, and not interesting). But damn. I just wanted something more for Korra.
Yes you easily can, for the very reason that you just described. This isn't even considering the fact that the choreography for most of the fights in the prequels was terrible as well.
EDIT: I feel like overall Korra is an ok series, but it's just huge wasted potential with some of the themes it tried to tackle and was unable to successfully develop them.
Don't worry, Asami was already reading something like that when Korra came waltzing in.
Funny enough, the bottom line says something about "don't wait, quickly master your future!"
Sounds like an S&M manual :^)
So beautiful. Zuckerman is the true hero of this show.
I still find Korra and Asami weird. Seeing them holding hands. Just the realization they are in love. But without like, any kind of plot before that to show that. It's so I dunno. I'm just going to assume that, off screen, they had plot we didn't get to see.
It makes more sense to me that way. Going from an entire plot where they never implied anything more then close friends. To a shot of them holding hands and going into the spirit world. There is just this big gap for me. But I'll just assume things happened off screen.
I think though, the fact that they were friends that close super close. Even though I feel that was kind of rushed in itself. But the fact that it existed, prior to them falling for each other. Actually gives it a bit more realism to how most romances are shown.
I love AtLA, please believe me I do. But it did not in any sense of the world tackle genocide, sexism, racism or anything like that. It might have lightly touched on those topic in a broad sense, but AtLA is best known for its themes of friendship, belonging, forgiveness and believing in oneself. And good on them for not biting off more than they could chew with AtLA.
Now with Korra, it has a significant issue with raising topics is has no desire to actually address. That's the largest reason the show isn't nearly as good as people hoped it would be.
Agree with those that it was not a satisfying series finale. The action was top notch as usual, but the side characters got well thrown to the side except for varrick. If there is going to be more avatar I would like them to re-do korra. I want them create filler episodes basically just to expand on the characters and bring more cohesion to the 4 seasons.
SilentMatthew
Member
Like most seasons of Korra, except maybe season 3, it tried to juggle too many themes/characters and it mostly falling flat on its face. Maybe if they've chosen to focus on Korra, e.g. her journey in the central continent interacting with the populous, seeing the good and bad of Kuvira's rule and etc. You can keep the Korrasami thing going on with the messenger hawk mail service. Inter-connectivity between protagonist and antagonist is a major problem here. Despite loling at "We are similar"/"We are not so different" during the Korra-Kuvira exchange I sortof see it... if they actually bother to focus on it and better for the season.
I get you entirely. I wanted the same, too.
Hopefully, Korra's story will continue in some form before it gets actual, proper closure, and we get to say a real goodbye to the characters.
Maybe in games? Or comics? Both have shown potential as a good medium for this universe, should the right amount of love go into it.
Korra tackled these ideas from afar, without wanting to actually talk about them. So yeah. ATLA still came off more mature in the larger whole, because subtext means a lot more then an actual plot that is from a distance and shallow.
Korra was more so ideas. ATLA had a lot of plot that were about other things. Whereas Korra had specific plot that WERE the mature themes you said, they just didn't want to go near them with a 10 foot pole.
m_shortpants
Member
I actually laughed when Su told Bataar "She's a complicated person"
Speaking of which, I can't believe they didn't show Bataar confronting Kuvira.
Speaking of which, I can't believe they didn't show Bataar confronting Kuvira.
WrenchNinja
Member
Great post
Though I gotta say I, you've only been watching tv for 14 years? That's bananas
The whole Kuvira end was clunky. THE AVATAR HAS POWER I COULD NEVER HOPE TO ACHIEVE.
But but...it wasn't about power. She was doing it to protect herself and her people.
Well since there isn't going to be much on the canon front....here are some "avatars" I want to see function in the verse:
Avatar John Cena
Avatar Hank Hill
Avatar Buffy
Avatar River Tam
Avatar Abe Lincoln (not chinstrap aang)
Avatar Mabel
Avatar Charles Barkley
Cause why not.
Avatar John Cena
Avatar Hank Hill
Avatar Buffy
Avatar River Tam
Avatar Abe Lincoln (not chinstrap aang)
Avatar Mabel
Avatar Charles Barkley
Cause why not.
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Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
uh, thats what i said. the fight itself is great, but you dont really care for it
I would also argue that with how much screentime Varrick and Zhu Li got this season they should be unofficial members of the Krew
Er let me explain that number. Hahah. I'm 26. So I've been watching since I was 6. So more like 20 years. But it was not until I was like 10 that I watched it seriously is what I mean. Which brings it closer to 16 years. And I would say it probably wasn't even until I was 14 ish, that I really really focused on things on a writing level.
So that number is kind of all over the place. But you get what I mean. For the record, my point I was trying to make is, I've seen a lot of TV shows over the years (I've re-watched a ton of old shows). So i've seen a lot of endings.
And I just found this ending to be one of the more bizarre ones, in terms of just the overall ending to a series. In terms of it not having much to say, and kind of just casually walking away from the world.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Don't worry, Asami was already reading something like that when Korra came waltzing in.
But is that something that we should be reading as inherently suggestive?
That's one of my issues with the getting past the censors problem. If the mechanism by which you do it also cuts against normalized depictions of females (i.e., they can't be shown together on an magazine doing industrial work without people immediately thinking they're lesbians) then you're creating additional problems too. But again, it's a catch-22 because they may very well be the only way they could get something in without getting caught.
FUUUUUU thats so good.
SilentMatthew
Member
Goddamn that was pretty funny. Also having Bataar instead of Su take Kuvira away to custody might have been more... poignant in a rushed kindof way like the rest of the finale. Kuvira doesn't owe Su shite because of that assassino stunt.
m_shortpants
Member
Yeah, I thought the power schtick was Amon and Yakones thing.
Maybe Bryke got confused lol.
LoK is more thematic driven whereas ATLA was more plot driven. Korra handled its themes better than ATLA but you'll probably just be a contranian and add more lines to disagree. We just had a whole season arc built around Korra dealing with recovery/forgiveness and you think that shallow Zuko/Katara adventure episode interrogated the theme more? lol
I still kind of question whether Korrasami was genuine. People are saying that a staff person said that Bryke added that final scene at the last minute, and that no one else knew.
I dunno. I do get that, the network would have pushed back. So if they really wanted them together, they might have had to of danced around it. And if that is the case, I applaud Bryke for...doing this, if it's what they truly wanted. In that case, maybe they did the best they could....
I still kind of hate how they chose to end the show on that note, without giving us closure to more important things prior to that scene.
We got to watch their confusion play out in real time, as Kuvira jumped back and forth between characters. lol
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