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[TheBaronOfNA]

They attacked Jaffe on a personal level. It was a shitty podcast, where they were also confused as to why anyone could have any desire to play a Metal Gear Solid Online game.

Dunno if I would call it personal. Unfair to a point, yes. Still, it seemed that Jaffe could have take the criticism.

About that podcast, I think the only thing that piss me off was Patrick and Brad being so cynical about the Roberta Williams moment in the TGA.

 

[Ravager61]

People seem to have this idea that "bad game" means its a game that is broken, or that buggy, or that the developers didn't work hard on.

Because that is what is implied by the word "bad". This is why we have nuance in the English language. So we can more accurately convey our feelings towards things. To imply that "bad" doesn't come with a certain connotation is just straight up wrong.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Because that is what is implied by the word "bad". This is why we have nuance in the English language. So we can more accurately convey our feelings towards things. To imply that "bad" doesn't come with a certain connotation is just straight up wrong.

Context? What is that?

 

[Ravager61]

Context? What is that?

Huh? Read the last page...

 

[squadr0n]

The only thing they said about the Siearra lady was that she was only really apart of the first 7 Kings Quest, made it big and sold the studio.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Huh? Read the last page...

No, I'm saying that context also matters in communication and language.

 

[Ingueferroque]

What other criteria would be used? I don't think the games are fun. I've never enjoyed playing them. What else is it? People seem to have this idea that "bad game" means its a game that is broken, or that buggy, or that the developers didn't work hard on. Whenever Jeff describes something as "that's a bad game" its clear he is saying it's a game he doesn't personally like.

It would be correct to say "I think it is a bad game because x."

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Because that is what is implied by the word "bad". This is why we have nuance in the English language. So we can more accurately convey our feelings towards things. To imply that "bad" doesn't come with a certain connotation is just straight up wrong.

The connotation is that the person who is saying it does not like it. If I say a certain album is bad, or a certain movie is bad, what connotations are there other than "I don't like it and don't want to watch/listen to it anymore". There isn't any more or less nuance with games. Granted one could at least elaborate on why they think it's bad, what they do and don't like about it, ect...but I refuse to believe that someone is supposed to recognize that a game that they do not enjoy, and do not think is fun or entertaining, is still "good" because it's not broken.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Dunno if I would call it personal. Unfair to a point, yes. Still, it seemed that Jaffe could have take the criticism.

About that podcast, I think the only thing that piss me off was Patrick and Brad being so cynical about the Roberta Williams moment in the TGA.

Ok now I need a link for that.

 

[Cranzor]

It would be correct to say "I think it is a bad game because x."

Isn't it implied that the speaker is speaking for himself? Having to preface every one of my opinions as my own would get redundant and cumbersome.

 

[Ingueferroque]

The connotation is that the person who is saying it does not like it. If I say a certain album is bad, or a certain movie is bad, what connotations are there other than "I don't like it and don't want to watch/listen to it anymore". There isn't any more or less nuance with games. Granted one could at least elaborate on why they think it's bad, what they do and don't like about it, ect...but I refuse to believe that someone is supposed to recognize that a game that they do not enjoy, and do not think is fun or entertaining, is still "good" because it's not broken.

Just because I don't enjoy watching Baseball doesn't automatically mean that the sport is 'bad'. Even though every time I tried to watch Baseball I didn't enjoy myself.

Isn't it implied that the speaker is speaking for himself? Having to preface every one of my opinions as my own would get redundant and cumbersome.

It's nuance, I suppose. But quite important.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Just because I don't enjoy watching Baseball doesn't automatically mean that the sport is 'bad'. Even though every time I tried to watch Baseball I didn't enjoy myself.

then what does make the sport bad? What makes any sport bad? Why even use that word at all? Ultimately they are just words used to describe personal opinion. Nothing is really good or bad at all because it's completely subjective. Someone who feels the same way about baseball as you do might also say "baseball is a bad sport" and they wouldn't be wrong.

 

[hamchan]

I think just saying "it's a kart racer in 2014!!!" over and over, is not a valid argument.

 

[Ravager61]

The connotation is that the person who is saying it does not like it. If I say a certain album is bad, or a certain movie is bad, what connotations are there other than "I don't like it and don't want to watch/listen to it anymore".

As stated before, saying something is bad implies a certain reason behind that fact that you don't like something. It implies a more objective reasoning behind your dislike instead of a subjective one. For example, broken game balance, bugs, faulty controls etc. vs a genre that doesn't appeal to your personality or tastes.

The sports analogy doesn't work that well here I agree. But you really can't find any merit in games that you don't find fun? The Crusader Kings II example works for me here. I would never get much enjoyment out of that game. It just doesn't appeal to my tastes. But I don't think it is broken or anything and I can certainly see the appeal for others.

 

[Vire]

Semantics: the thread.

Thanks Destiny.

 

[fadetoblack]

He said many times if he didn't like doing what he does he'd stop. Just because he dislikes games others love doesn't mean he hates everything. I disagree with a lot of his opinions but he's entitled to them. What I don't understand is why people take such great offense to what he thinks.

Yeah I agree with this. Also, it's pretty clear that he felt strongly about the games he did like this year. Dude fucking LOVES Luftrausers, for instance, and hey he's dead on about it. Also, he really liked the new Call of Duty despite a fatigue for the series that both he and others have expressed.

To be fair to Jeff, its not like there aren't a lot of good reasons to be cynical about this year in gaming.

 

[bigwinnerx]

I think just saying "it's a kart racer in 2014!!!" over and over, is not a valid argument.

Whacky Wheels, now that was a kart racer.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

Whacky Wheels, now that was a kart racer.

released on gog in 2014 :arr

I'm not sure Jaffe quite understand the scene he's linking. Now, I lack the full context of the movie Chef, but what I'm seeing is a scene where a man gets unnecessarily enraged at a critic, makes a gigantic scene while a crowd looks on in astonishment and friends/family fail in attempting to stop him. This outburst is filmed, seen online and (presumably) ruins his image. At no point does the scene take the side of the Chef. If anything, it's made clear that the viewer is supposed to feel sorry, or embarrassed, for the character's emotional instability in that moment.

The scene doesn't really break down the position of critic the way I think Jaffe thought it did. It more just shows a sad, emotional outburst from a broken man. Not sure it makes the point Jaffe wanted. I mean, unless he wanted to come across like Jon Favreau's character. I'd sincerely hope he wouldn't.

yeah, seemingly that scene flies completely over his head. I mean, there's no other way to take that tweet. lmao jaffe, jesus man.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

then what does make the sport bad? What makes any sport bad? Why even use that word at all? Ultimately they are just words used to describe personal opinion. Nothing is really good or bad at all because it's completely subjective. Someone who feels the same way about baseball as you do might also say "baseball is a bad sport" and they wouldn't be wrong.

I mean, yes, you're right --- and his point is kind of trite --- but Jeff is paid to, uh, articulate about video games. Shouting "it's a bad game" is funny occasionally, but it's most of what Jeff does now.

 

[bigwinnerx]

I mean, yes, you're right --- and his point is kind of trite --- but Jeff is paid to, uh, articulate about video games. Shouting "it's a bad game" is funny occasionally, but it's most of what Jeff does now.

Gamespot is paid to articulate about video games. Jeff is paid to be Jeff.

 

[TheShampion]

The tragedy if Jaffe linking that specific scene is that the speech he should have linked was the one against critics in Birdman. Missed opportunity.

Also The cynicism on Giant Bomb only bothers me because I like when they are chill dudes, when they get uptight and really get down on something it feels unnecessary and not really up their alley at all.

 

[Leafhopper]

I made to day 4 on the podcast now, after starting it earlier today. Them talking about local play is really damn silly.

Spoiler

I know its opinions but Brad the only defender of Destiny, and saying Smash Bros is hilarious to me.

 

[Volotaire]

I'm finally starting Day 1. Haha I love the Far Cry 4 addition on the old games award list.

 

[BennyBlanco]

He didn't appear to like 3D World. He said it was boring every time it came up, then said it was dumb internet bullshit later.

He thought a game like Destiny should be one of the ten best games this year, but was adamant Mario did not belong anywhere near the top ten list last year.

Yet divekick made their list.

 

[Volotaire]

'Samurai Gunn is Samurai Fun' Haha.

 

[soxinthebox]

I'm not sure Jaffe quite understand the scene he's linking. Now, I lack the full context of the movie Chef, but what I'm seeing is a scene where a man gets unnecessarily enraged at a critic, makes a gigantic scene while a crowd looks on in astonishment and friends/family fail in attempting to stop him. This outburst is filmed, seen online and (presumably) ruins his image. At no point does the scene take the side of the Chef. If anything, it's made clear that the viewer is supposed to feel sorry, or embarrassed, for the character's emotional instability in that moment.

The scene doesn't really break down the position of critic the way I think Jaffe thought it did. It more just shows a sad, emotional outburst from a broken man. Not sure it makes the point Jaffe wanted. I mean, unless he wanted to come across like Jon Favreau's character. I'd sincerely hope he wouldn't.

Agreed. The choice of video is strange.

 

[Toparaman]

Just finished all the GOTY coverage. What a glorious binge it was.

Highlights:

• Brad's epic, stubborn, hilarious appeal for Destiny on Day 5.
• "Batman" (read: Jason) beating up "Dan" (read: a safety cone) for killing video games.

Lowlights:
The endless bitching in this thread, especially from Nintendo fans. Lighten up please, or go to any number of blander gaming sites that pick GOTY by popular consensus. If you think these awards are serious business, get a reality check. Giant Bomb's GOTY deliberations are really just an excuse to reflect on the past year's games in a casual conversational manner. Also, if you think Jeff hates Nintendo, you must be selectively deaf.

My personal GOTY:
Mario Kart 8. Playing this the first time blew my mind. I had no idea that cartoony Nintendo visuals could look that good. And the music, with it's live jazz-rock instrumentation, adds so much to the experience. On the downside, the gameplay is typical Mario Kart (but super tight and responsive), with a lack of interesting gameplay modes. But damn does the jump in presentation make it all feel fresh again.


Thank you Giant Bomb for hours and hours of entertainment in 2014.

 

[Technosteve]

Dan: I am play video games because they are fun. (Who is this monster)

Jeff: Fun? Video games? You are all fired, some wrestling card game GOTY. game Over

Brad: Destiny Destiny Destiny, cheating on dota.

Vinny: peace maker, king of video games

Alex: jazzpunk GOTY

Scoops:

Jason: Destiny is hot garbage

Drew: wwi was a long war

 

[Jothel]

Just finished all the GOTY coverage. What a glorious binge it was.

Highlights:

• Brad's epic, stubborn, hilarious appeal for Destiny on Day 5.
• "Batman" (read: Jason) beating up "Dan" (read: a safety cone) for killing video games.

Lowlights:
The endless bitching in this thread, especially from Nintendo fans. Lighten up please, or go to any number of blander gaming sites that pick GOTY by popular consensus. If you think these awards are serious business, get a reality check. Giant Bomb's GOTY deliberations are really just an excuse to reflect on the past year's games in a casual conversational manner. Also, if you think Jeff hates Nintendo, you must be selectively deaf.

My personal GOTY:
Mario Kart 8. Playing this the first time blew my mind. I had no idea that cartoony Nintendo visuals could look that good. And the music, with it's live jazz-rock instrumentation, adds so much to the experience. On the downside, the gameplay is typical Mario Kart (but super tight and responsive), with a lack of interesting gameplay modes. But damn does the jump in presentation make it all feel fresh again.


Thank you Giant Bomb for hours and hours of entertainment in 2014.

Had to make the face Jason pulls at the end my avatar, too funny.

 

[Fjordson]

Finishing up the final podcast. Great listen. I'll always appreciate GB putting out this stuff in full.

I think Brad getting

Spoiler

a game as boring as

Destiny onto the top 10 may be his most impressive GOTY feat yet on Giant Bomb. And it didn't seem like any of the other guys enjoyed it much so I was certain it'd get shot down.

Also, I need to play Jazzpunk.

 

[SOLDIER]

Is there a list of all the games that get spoiled in the GOTY episodes?

 

[Talon]

Brad is bad at video games; therefore, Brad likes bad videogames, obvy.

Brad is leaving.

Alot of Patricks comments seem personal. Like GZ's ending being 'Gross' when it was chock full of symbolism. He's free to criticize how it ended, but 'gross' isn't criticism. I will never forgive him for that.

Symbolism doesn't make something good.

Bad writing is bad writing.

 

[The Dear Leader]

The reactions to the GB GOTY stuff is honestly more entertaining than the actual GOTY stuff. 86 pages of tomfoolery, scorned Nintendo fans and all sorts of other bullshittery is what makes these awards so great.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Symbolism doesn't make something good.

Bad writing is bad writing.

It's pretty good when the fan name given to it plays into the symbolism.

Hinthantom Pain is the only numbered MGS game, the fifth in the numbered series, with a Roman Numeral, which happens to be V.

Hint:"V has come to"

Hint:The Peace Sign, when done with the hand, forms what symbol, which 'Peace Walker' in which Paz was a part of, names compromised of?

Hint:In one of the trailers, there is an identiy of 'Venom Snake.'

And finally, what is the nick name given to what killed Paz at the end of GZ. What did they say on the podcast? 'V-bomb', an innocuous fan name to something so disgusting.

You've played right into Kojimas trap.

 

[Brianimaniac]

It's pretty good when the fan name given to it plays into the symbolism.

Hinthantom Pain is the only numbered MGS game, the fifth in the numbered series, with a Roman Numeral, which happens to be V.

Hint:"V has come to"

Hint:The Peace Sign, when done with the hand, forms what symbol, which 'Peace Walker' in which Paz was a part of, names compromised of?

Hint:In one of the trailers, there is an identiy of 'Venom Snake.'

And finally, what is the nick name given to what killed Paz at the end of GZ. What did they say on the podcast? 'V-bomb', an innocuous fan name to something so disgusting.

You've played right into Kojimas trap.

What the fuck did I just read?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What the fuck did I just read?

Symbolism, son.

 

[The Dear Leader]

What the fuck did I just read?

Master story telling at it's finest.

 

[KalBalboa]

I felt pretty uncomfortable hearing them talk about Jaffe in that episode...

They attacked Jaffe on a personal level. It was a shitty podcast...

Yeah, that moment really stuck out to me, too. Really off-putting (and I normally really love the show).

I don't think it really ended up getting under David's skin, but I thought the GB guys (Patrick, notably) came off kind of bullyish and petty in that moment.

 

[Junior Mint]

Yeah I'm a huge fan of GB but even I thought they got way too personal about Jaffe. I don't think the game looks good at all either but there's no need to insult the guy.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Yeah I'm a huge fan of GB but even I thought they got way too personal about Jaffe. I don't think the game looks good at all either but there's no need to insult the guy.

Don't remember them insulting the guy.

 

[The Dear Leader]

About the Jaffe thing, their entitled to their own opinions, I personally don't shit on a game until I can play it and see more than a trailers worth of the game. I understand them not liking the games tone though, but I did find it funny how off put Dan was about the gun that shot out a "FUCK YOU" every time you shot the gun, or something like that, yet on just about every video were he kills someone he says "FuuUUCK, You". Thought it was kind strange, figured of any of them, it would be right up his alley. I may be misremembering the specifics of it though.

 

[Leafhopper]

Also listening to Day 5, Brad's fight for Destiny is real.

 

[soundscream]

Wait are people arguing the "old guy trying to seem cool" comment about Jaffe was a big deal?

 

[Talon]

It's pretty good when the fan name given to it plays into the symbolism.

Hinthantom Pain is the only numbered MGS game, the fifth in the numbered series, with a Roman Numeral, which happens to be V.

Hint:"V has come to"

Hint:The Peace Sign, when done with the hand, forms what symbol, which 'Peace Walker' in which Paz was a part of, names compromised of?

Hint:In one of the trailers, there is an identiy of 'Venom Snake.'

And finally, what is the nick name given to what killed Paz at the end of GZ. What did they say on the podcast? 'V-bomb', an innocuous fan name to something so disgusting.

You've played right into Kojimas trap.

Bravo, sir.

 

[KalBalboa]

Wait are people arguing the "old guy trying to seem cool" comment about Jaffe was a big deal?

Not a big deal, just kind of mean spirited. The attitude from one or two of the guys seemed a bit lousy and uncool.

 

[TGMIII]

then what does make the sport bad? What makes any sport bad? Why even use that word at all? Ultimately they are just words used to describe personal opinion. Nothing is really good or bad at all because it's completely subjective. Someone who feels the same way about baseball as you do might also say "baseball is a bad sport" and they wouldn't be wrong.

Exactly. In most cases people poorly articulate their feelings and bad is a word you just see thrown around without any actual meaning behind it other than it being used as a blanket statement. Games have various mechanical merit to them and not liking how a game plays doesn't mean that it's bad in the same way that liking something doesn't then inherently mean that it's good. Its the breakdown, explanation and understanding of how those mechanics work as a whole that I think gives you credence to actually say something is literally good or bad. Obviously there's more to games as a whole package than how it plays but it's certainly the major part of the product.

Obviously giantbomb isn't the place to go to if you're looking for technical and critical analysis of games but I feel like they, and more people in general, need to learn to say "I don't like it" rather than outright stating that something is bad. It may just happen that the game actually is bad but there's a separation to be made there for sure.

 

[Interficium]

Probably will be looked back on as the moment GB jumped the shark, along with Klepek leaving.

The whole "angry rants!" sector of games journalism is so overplayed and crowded these days, it's sad to see GB leaning heavily into it.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Exactly. In most cases people poorly articulate their feelings and bad is a word you just see thrown around without any actual meaning behind it other than it being used as a blanket statement. Games have various mechanical merit to them and not liking how a game plays doesn't mean that it's bad in the same way that liking something doesn't then inherently mean that it's good. Its the breakdown, explanation and understanding of how those mechanics work as a whole that I think gives you credence to actually say something is literally good or bad.

Obviously giantbomb isn't the place to go to if you're looking for technical and critical analysis of games but I feel like they, and more people in general, need to learn to say "I don't like it" rather than outright stating that something is bad. It may just happen that the game actually is bad but there's a separation to be made there for sure.

More often than not, when they use "bad game" they are speaking in relative terms. Alas, Jeff often says, in both comedic and serious tone, that x is a bad game while other member is saying that he is enjoying the game a loot.

 

[TGMIII]

More often than not, when they use "bad game" they are speaking in relative terms. Alas, Jeff often says, in both comedic and serious tone, that x is a bad game while other member is saying that he is enjoying the game a loot.

And I totally get that but I think in general across nearly all of games media, including forums, it's just a word that gets thrown around too much. There's a conversation to be had about why you think it's "bad" but instead the conversation typically stops there or doesn't go much deeper.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not getting bent out of shape over people just saying a game is bad or looking for a robotic analysis of games, I'm just kinda tired of hearing it. I think the idea that just because someone likes or hates something then validates that opinion is crazy. It may hold true to that individual but it doesn't then instantly reflect the product correctly.

 

[soundscream]

Not a big deal, just kind of mean spirited. The attitude from one or two of the guys seemed a bit lousy and uncool.

I don't even thinks its mean spirited. Its an opinion, one you could agree or disagree with but one that has probably been said about numerous musicians, actors and other celebrities for years.