NeoGAF's Essential RPGs - 2015 edition
- Thread starter kswiston
- Start date
Whoops. I mean Bloodlines of course
Of course. Usually the Top 100 is more interesting than just the top 10 or 20.
Well, the BioWare is terrible thread is mostly about recent releases. I don't think anyone is arguing they haven't made some really great RPGs, it's just that most of those are in the past.
I'm glad to see Divinity: Original Sin get some recognition.
As for Mass Effect getting the most WRPG points, while I don't even remotely agree, it's not difficult to comprehend why that is.
hemtae
Member
Whoops. I mean Bloodlines of course
OK GAF is back alive. I can live with that I guess.
Are you going to do write ups like last time for the top games? I'd love to help for the new titles.
All is right with the world, how people on Gaf can hate on ME2, a game with one of the highest metacritic scores ever, baffles me.
Other than the Mass Effect games and Divinity: OS (recency bias), a surprisingly agreeable—if obvious—list. I love ME1 but it's so thoroughly flawed I'm surprised GAF doesn't mind the jank. ME2's not an RPG.
pretty few choices in terms of quality WRPGs over the past 10 years anyways. Mask of the Betrayer strikes me as the only glaring absence.
Yes. I will probably recycle the write ups for the titles that were in the top 50 last time, because it would be crazy to try and redo everything from scratch. However, There will still be a handful of new (or new to the top 50) games to cover, and help would be great.
Alpha Protocol made the Top 50 again.
ME2 is an RPG...
I love how at one point people where saying: "x isn't an RPG because it doesn't have choice."
Then it was: "x isn't an RPG because you don't use [insert generic RPG stats here] in the game."
Gah. RPG fans apparently don't know what an RPG is anymore. In ME2, I do get armor with different stats, you get different weapons, level up and level up specific skills and shit. You also ROLEPLAY as Commander Shepard, you make choices and things react to that.
Apparently that isn't an RPG. Hell Stick of Truth is considered an RPG and it only has stats and skill leveling, you make zero choices. (At least from what I've played of it thus far.)
NormalFish
Banned
Did the suikoden games rank?
hersheyfan
Member
My essential 10 as of January 2015:
10) Mass Effect 2 (the vanilla PS3 version, with all the DLC)
9) Dark Souls (PS3/X360)
8) Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (PC)
7) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (PC)
6) Persona 3: FES (PS2)
5) Chrono Trigger (SNES)
4) Final Fantasy VI (SNES)
3) Persona 4: The Golden (PSV)
2) Trails in the Sky (PSP)
1) Suikoden II (PS1)
Honorable mentions:
Fallout 2 (PC) - i love it, but it has not aged well.
Skies of Arcadia (DC) - The excessive encounter rate dragged it down a bit from god-tier status.
Tales of Graces F (PS3) - the main plot is mostly dreck, but the dialogue is excellent, and the combat is my hands down favorite of any JRPG ever.
Dragon Age Inquisition (PS4) - i loved this above all other games of 2014, but only time will tell if it deserves a place in "the pantheon".
10) Mass Effect 2 (the vanilla PS3 version, with all the DLC)
9) Dark Souls (PS3/X360)
8) Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (PC)
7) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (PC)
6) Persona 3: FES (PS2)
5) Chrono Trigger (SNES)
4) Final Fantasy VI (SNES)
3) Persona 4: The Golden (PSV)
2) Trails in the Sky (PSP)
1) Suikoden II (PS1)
Honorable mentions:
Fallout 2 (PC) - i love it, but it has not aged well.
Skies of Arcadia (DC) - The excessive encounter rate dragged it down a bit from god-tier status.
Tales of Graces F (PS3) - the main plot is mostly dreck, but the dialogue is excellent, and the combat is my hands down favorite of any JRPG ever.
Dragon Age Inquisition (PS4) - i loved this above all other games of 2014, but only time will tell if it deserves a place in "the pantheon".
Mattakuevan
Member
You're a bit too late. Good list though.
ah, Alpha Protocol. the Deus Ex spiritual successor gamers demanded, but did not deserve
god I love that game.hersheyfan
Member
just my two cents.Well I am happy with New Vegas' placement. Sure it would of been nice for it to have beat Mass Effect, but it is nice that it finally beat Fallout 3. It seems Bethesda titles have fallen down a little. Can't wait to see the full list.
Great.!
Eh, don't let it get to you. This is what usually happens with such lists - Newer and more popular games get more votes and so get unproportional recognition.
When it comes down to voting, it'll always come down to demographic indicator than quality. The Top 100 like kswinston said, will be interesting and I hope for each of them he could highlight the explanation why they were picked (though rather impractical considering the quantity).
Off-Kilter
Banned
Alpha Protocol in the top 50
you did good GAF, you did good
you did good GAF, you did good
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Yeah, leafing through the votes a little bit for the past few days, the demographics have changed just slightly. And that will always control how the final results will go. Additionally, like it or not, platform and series adherence would generally skew some people's ballots; this is true for any vote thread. Finally, more recent games that people generally seem to tend to do well in this thread.
Personally, I'm always curious as to how FF5 ranks every year since we do the Fiesta annually, but maybe it might not do so well this time.
Personally, I'm always curious as to how FF5 ranks every year since we do the Fiesta annually, but maybe it might not do so well this time.
blahblahblah schala's teh bias because she played it three times this year blahblahblah
GS2 usually ranks. A general search would suggest that GS2 will again.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
And it's starting already! Woohoohoohoo!
Skyrim and TO's falls are pretty signifigant; as is DD's ascent after its release year.
NormalFish
Banned
As it should.
Benzychenz
Member
This makes me happy. DD is fantastic and needs all the praise it can get. Though considering it placed 80th last time it should have jumped even further >_>
Did Wasteland 2 make it? I'm somewhat saddened to see DDOS do so well compared to it.
CecilRousso
Member
Pretty good list considering it was about essential RPG's, and a nice combination of older and modern RPG's is a good choice when it comes that. I wouldn't put ME2 anywhere near a list of what I think are the best WRPG's, not even close, but I can see how it's considered an essential game in the genre.
Dracandros
Banned
...
Yeah, being essential doesn't exactly mean as the top of the quality. We could play it for something else that might changed our perspective on the genre or something like that.
IAmRandom31
Banned
damnit all forgot all about this thread. Didn't finish my list! Damn!
Damn, missed this! Next year (?) I'll vote for sure. Looked at the old list and at the first info about the new one and I see we pretty much share the same taste, there are a bunch of things I don't agree with though (just my opinions).
I still don't get why the Souls series is considered an RPG, in my mind if something has a leveling system it isn't automatically an RPG. I mean, there are sports and racing games with a leveling system, sometimes even platformers or other kind of games. The Souls games feel more like action adventures (with RPG elements, sure), you don't spend too much time planning your equipment, abilities etc., neither having long conversations with NPCs, the plot is almost like an afterthought, not developed at all, no cities, no map, most of the time spent is in the heat of battle, in the midst of the action or exploring. Weirds me out when people say it's an RPG, just like when people say Zelda is an RPG.
I don't get why Planescape Torment stomps all over BGII. Don't get me wrong, I love Torment, easily in my top 10-20 games of all time, but I see the trinity of DnD CRPGs like this: Icewind Dale is great but flawed, as it focuses too much on the fighting, to the detriment of the plot and characters, Planescape Torment is great but flawed, as it focuses too much on plot and characters, to the detriment of the fighting, BGII is the perfect balance of plot, characters and action.
FFXII so high. I can't get into that game (tried thrice), feels like an offline MMORPG. Weakest FF after FFXIII for me.
I still don't get why the Souls series is considered an RPG, in my mind if something has a leveling system it isn't automatically an RPG. I mean, there are sports and racing games with a leveling system, sometimes even platformers or other kind of games. The Souls games feel more like action adventures (with RPG elements, sure), you don't spend too much time planning your equipment, abilities etc., neither having long conversations with NPCs, the plot is almost like an afterthought, not developed at all, no cities, no map, most of the time spent is in the heat of battle, in the midst of the action or exploring. Weirds me out when people say it's an RPG, just like when people say Zelda is an RPG.
I don't get why Planescape Torment stomps all over BGII. Don't get me wrong, I love Torment, easily in my top 10-20 games of all time, but I see the trinity of DnD CRPGs like this: Icewind Dale is great but flawed, as it focuses too much on the fighting, to the detriment of the plot and characters, Planescape Torment is great but flawed, as it focuses too much on plot and characters, to the detriment of the fighting, BGII is the perfect balance of plot, characters and action.
FFXII so high. I can't get into that game (tried thrice), feels like an offline MMORPG. Weakest FF after FFXIII for me.
Nocturnowl
Member
Admittedly I sort of feel the same way after all I wouldn't consider say Symphony of the Night for this list and it draws a lot of similarities to Souls structure but I still voted for it since everyone else was doing it, cursed GAF peer pressure.
That's always the deal with something like this I suppose, RPG alone casts a really wide net where the cutoff point varies based on personal opinion.
It's kind of like for instance if you made a list based upon say platformers you could feasibly end up buried among a host of varied titles that share elements to tie them into the genre as a whole but can all play completely differently and slot into many various sub genres.
Lux R7
Member
Dark souls is an RPG to me, 'cause you can choose who you are, you can choose your covenant, you can choose the role you want to play in the world.
This is the role play to me.
You do not have to talk with one million NPCs to be in a RPG imho.
To me what really matters is the possibility to choose who u are, what to do, when and why.
I don't like, for exemple, the withcer kind of RPG, 'cause i can't choose who i am.
It's a matter of tastes or of what u think it's important in an RPG.
This is the role play to me.
You do not have to talk with one million NPCs to be in a RPG imho.
To me what really matters is the possibility to choose who u are, what to do, when and why.
I don't like, for exemple, the withcer kind of RPG, 'cause i can't choose who i am.
It's a matter of tastes or of what u think it's important in an RPG.
I view the individual submissions as the real meat of the thread, and the ranked aggregate list as something that is just for fun.
I do find it sort of funny that so many people lament the final list when almost all of you have 50%+ of what you voted for in the overall top 100 (maybe not that Ultima guy, but the large majority of you). Even peopled with varied lists like Durante have like 60-70% of their picks somewhere in that Top 100. If you ignore order, can you really complain that the games you voted for are the games that show up?
It's an OT discussion but the genre title has for the longest time been a blackhole term for all kinds of conventions. If role-playing was a key quality of the genre then hardly any Japanese RPG would qualify IMO, because most often role-playing is substituted for story re-enactment and different types of conflict are extremely limited. But most of these games still clearly have roots Dungeons and Dragons systems and terminology. We've grown to accept certain games as belonging to RPGs and over time other games derived mechanics and systems from them, and new games derived from those, but there's still some kind of family resemblance.
I saw the thread only now, guess I'm too late.
.. at least CT will be 1st as usual, right?
.. at least CT will be 1st as usual, right?
what really should baffle you is why people still think that metacritic score has any value, or why Mass Effect gets even a spot in a top 10 RPGs list.
I don't agree with the top 5 list but I have to say it's better than I thought it would be.
LiegeWaffle
Member
As much as my appreciation for ME1/2 has declined since I played them after the second game came out, this is not that bad. It's awesome to see New Vegas go up compared to the previous list, though, especially given that it ranked below FO3 last time.
"Essential" list is kind of weird, in a sense that it's different from "best" list, but the difference is harder to grasp. For example, I agree that Chrono Trigger needs to be on the list of essential RPGs, as it's probably the 16-bit era RPG you should play if you only play one of them. But I would not put it into my personal top-10 of the best RPGs, because despite being extremely good game, it does not really excel at any particular aspect (except for the battle system, it's amazing).
1. I'm really saddened Wasteland 2 didn't get more love. It's not the perfect game, but I really hoped it would do better on this list. It wasn't as flashyor accessible as D:OS, but it was much better in my opinion.
2. ME over BG2 is an outrage (as is PS:T and F:NV, but I guess I can accept them to a degree.)
3.I like the Dark Souls series, but i didn't vote for that (Or Diablo for that matter) because I do not fully consider those RPGs. I get those that do, but personally I don't really feel like they should be judged in the same manner as games like BG2.
4. Unrealted: As a western RPG gamer (who played a fair share of JRPGs in his youth), should I give Persona a try? If so, which one is most recommended? My list, for reference, in on the first page. The love this series gets makes me really curious.
2. ME over BG2 is an outrage (as is PS:T and F:NV, but I guess I can accept them to a degree.)
3.I like the Dark Souls series, but i didn't vote for that (Or Diablo for that matter) because I do not fully consider those RPGs. I get those that do, but personally I don't really feel like they should be judged in the same manner as games like BG2.
4. Unrealted: As a western RPG gamer (who played a fair share of JRPGs in his youth), should I give Persona a try? If so, which one is most recommended? My list, for reference, in on the first page. The love this series gets makes me really curious.
You can give it a try, and if you do just jump straight into P4.
That said, it is one of GAF's most overrated series, at least when it comes to P3/4. The pacing is bad, the dungeons are terrible, and the story in P4 is average at best. The only things saving it are good characters.
P4 and P3P at least give you full party control.
If you are interested in solid dungeon design and gameplay, most of Atlus' other games would be a better pick. If you want fun characters you should enjoy Persona.
IMHO Divinity needs to be on an "essential" list far more than any other 2014 release, simply by virtue of having the best turn-based battle system in any RPG ever, and the best co-op integration in a CRPG.
Of course, as cynical as I am I feel tempted to believe that GAF got that one right for the wrong reason, probably because it's the one 2014 CRPG that got a bit of mainstream attention
I liked Wasteland 2 a lot, but everything it does is done better by some other game in the history of the genre, so I wouldn't put it on an "essentials" list.
Of course, as cynical as I am I feel tempted to believe that GAF got that one right for the wrong reason, probably because it's the one 2014 CRPG that got a bit of mainstream attention
I liked Wasteland 2 a lot, but everything it does is done better by some other game in the history of the genre, so I wouldn't put it on an "essentials" list.
Agreed on all counts.