I think ME2 is hands down the better game (I love the series as a whole), but before ME2 came out the Mass Effect series had so much potential. It really sparked the imagination where the series could go from there. ME2/ME3 while being better games felt a lot more constrained and focused. I can't really explain it well.
The Mass Effect Community Thread
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I can appreciate people preferring different things, but I think the thing that irritates me the most is when people talk about ME1 being an RPG and ME2 not because ME1 had lots of items and stats and talent options.
That's not roleplaying. People get confused between the systems that we use to enable roleplaying, and actually roleplaying.
In terms of actually building a character, playing a role, and shaping relationships with other people ME2 is by far a better roleplaying game. The cast in ME1 is fairly shallow, and it's no surprise that it isn't until ME2 where characters like Liara and Garrus really start to shine. ME2 characters and the interactions you have with them are leagues ahead of ME1, which only had one really standout character (Wrex).
That's not roleplaying. People get confused between the systems that we use to enable roleplaying, and actually roleplaying.
In terms of actually building a character, playing a role, and shaping relationships with other people ME2 is by far a better roleplaying game. The cast in ME1 is fairly shallow, and it's no surprise that it isn't until ME2 where characters like Liara and Garrus really start to shine. ME2 characters and the interactions you have with them are leagues ahead of ME1, which only had one really standout character (Wrex).
ReBurn
Gold Member
ME1 and ME2 are both great games. They are different, but similar. I didn't really miss the Mako missions in 2 because they felt too much like grinding for collectibles. But I think that 2 lost the sense of wonder that came with taking the Normandy out of spacedock for the first time.
For me, ME2 showed signs of growing up and seemed to have more drive and urgency than the first game. I think that it was an evolution of the series.
For me, ME2 showed signs of growing up and seemed to have more drive and urgency than the first game. I think that it was an evolution of the series.
Nah, I'd invested hundreds of hours and 5 years into the series by the time I had gotten to that ending, and it didn't bother me, since I had long expected that we were going to get something like that. What did bother me, was the ridiculous amount of contrivances in the plot that had to take place in order for Shepard to reach the decision chamber.
The Reapers not taking the Citadel early in the game and shutting down the relays like they normally do, plans to destroy the Reapers being pulled from Liara and Hackett's arses, the Reaper's not shutting down the relays even when they finally did gain control of the Citadel at the end, Shepard surviving a fucking full frontal Reaper blast and not being evaporated like everyone else etc. Even though this did bother me, I do understand why Bioware had to add as many contrivances as they did.
Let's be real here, if Bioware were to write a realistic plot, which stayed 100% consistent with what we knew of the Reapers, then for all intents and purposes the Game Over box should have popped up on the screen once the Reapers landed on Earth, because the war would have been already lost. Shepard wouldn't have been able to leave Earth and go to the Citadel because it would have already been taken over by the Reapers and the relay network shut down, every planet would be isolated because the Reapers would have cut off all communication, no alliance building of any kind would have taken place since everyone was on their own and the Crucible plans would have been as useless as they were to the Protheans because the Reapers would once again in control of the Catalyst, and by the time they realised what the Catalyst was the harvest would nearly have been complete. Everyone Shepard knew would have died horribly and the cycle would have continued on forever more.
But wait, this is a video game, a Bioware made one at that, nobody has time for that realistic shit, we need to give the players a way to win the game. So the Reapers were heavily nerfed, many plot contrivances took place, a Macguffin was introduced and viola, we got Mass Effect 3's ending. Surprise muthafuckers.
You won't find any disagreements from me.
I wouldn't say ME2 ruined the series, but many of the plot problems found in ME3 wouldn't be able to be fixed without fixing ME2's plot, or lack of, first.
I've got some terrible news for you
Bedameister
Member
I've got some terrible news for you
I whish they would use the system of Dragon Age where you can switch characters and also play as your party members. That would be soooo good.
Ugghhh, are people complaining about ME2 again? ME2 is actually probably my favorite, and the best, in the series. Really the only consistent complaint I see from people is that ME2's plot was "bad," while to me it was perfect. ME2's plot is only retroactively bad because of ME3 and its decision to make everything you did in that game almost completely irrelevant. But, at the time it came out I thought the story in the game was FANTASTIC. You see ME2 was supposed to be the Empire Strikes Back of the series, more focused on characters and world building less about advancing the actual main plot. In Empire, the best SW movie, nothing really happens at all. Han and Leia dodge the Empire the whole movie and Luke trains on a swamp planet, then at the very end they all meet at some unimportant spot and it ends on a cliffhanger. The actual main plot is almost non-existent but that's fine because the story is all about the characters, it's about Luke learning what it means to be a Jedi and confronting his fears. And, it's about Han and Leia realizing the feelings growing between them. It is not about confronting the Empire or figuring out how to stop them.
The same thing happens in ME2, you have a paper thin main plot which is always present, Stop the Collectors, but the real meat of the game is the character building and exploration. ME2 is the developers giving you one last chance to poke around in the world of ME before the Reapers show up and destroy everything. Funny, while the Mako was taken out of the game ME2 actually feels larger than ME1. You have four main hubs to explore Citadel, Omega, Illium, and Tuchanka, alongside countless sidemissions you can encounter on various world. And, unlike ME1 each of these worlds, whilst condensed to a single area, feels unique as opposed to the copy/paste system of ME1 that tried to create an artificial sense a larger galaxy. ME2's story isn't about the Collectors it's about exploring Tuchanka and the plight of the Krogans, it's about learning Quarian culture and the inevitability of war between the Geth, it's about Blasto.
All of this "side" content is supposed to get you more invested into the world of ME so that when the actual Reaper war happens you have more of a connection to these worlds being destroyed and the conflicts that will have to be resolved. ME2 is actually the closest game to what some critical fans have asked for, a space adventure game that isn't about stopping a galaxy ending monster threat. While the Collectors are a threat they aren't something that must be stopped straight away, in fact the game encourages you to take all the time you need before attempting to stop them. Thus, ME2 feels the closest to a type of Star Trek like game. While you have this main threat you'll eventually have to deal with you are free leisurely to explore the galaxy, answer distress calls, mine planets for resources, chat it up with old friends, become involved in space politics, etc. Thus, every "side" mission feels like it's own contained episode that further fleshes out the world, but also links back up to the overall goal. This is in contrast to ME1 which while seeming bigger is at its heart a "chase" story, so it doesn't often make sense for you to leisure around the galaxy when Saren is out there getting closer to unleashing the Reapers.
So that is why for many reasons I love ME2 the best.
The same thing happens in ME2, you have a paper thin main plot which is always present, Stop the Collectors, but the real meat of the game is the character building and exploration. ME2 is the developers giving you one last chance to poke around in the world of ME before the Reapers show up and destroy everything. Funny, while the Mako was taken out of the game ME2 actually feels larger than ME1. You have four main hubs to explore Citadel, Omega, Illium, and Tuchanka, alongside countless sidemissions you can encounter on various world. And, unlike ME1 each of these worlds, whilst condensed to a single area, feels unique as opposed to the copy/paste system of ME1 that tried to create an artificial sense a larger galaxy. ME2's story isn't about the Collectors it's about exploring Tuchanka and the plight of the Krogans, it's about learning Quarian culture and the inevitability of war between the Geth, it's about Blasto.
All of this "side" content is supposed to get you more invested into the world of ME so that when the actual Reaper war happens you have more of a connection to these worlds being destroyed and the conflicts that will have to be resolved. ME2 is actually the closest game to what some critical fans have asked for, a space adventure game that isn't about stopping a galaxy ending monster threat. While the Collectors are a threat they aren't something that must be stopped straight away, in fact the game encourages you to take all the time you need before attempting to stop them. Thus, ME2 feels the closest to a type of Star Trek like game. While you have this main threat you'll eventually have to deal with you are free leisurely to explore the galaxy, answer distress calls, mine planets for resources, chat it up with old friends, become involved in space politics, etc. Thus, every "side" mission feels like it's own contained episode that further fleshes out the world, but also links back up to the overall goal. This is in contrast to ME1 which while seeming bigger is at its heart a "chase" story, so it doesn't often make sense for you to leisure around the galaxy when Saren is out there getting closer to unleashing the Reapers.
So that is why for many reasons I love ME2 the best.
I agree with the latest comments. I freaking loved ME2, most replayed game in my library.
But I feel indeed that something was lost. The only time I felt that "larger than life" threat was at the end of the game.
It's more epic, action packed, well designed (loved the episodes structure of the missions), badass, but not "bigger".
At some degree, ME3 have a little of both.
But I feel indeed that something was lost. The only time I felt that "larger than life" threat was at the end of the game.
It's more epic, action packed, well designed (loved the episodes structure of the missions), badass, but not "bigger".
At some degree, ME3 have a little of both.
Funyarinpa
Member
I liked ME2 more than ME1. It felt more... refined, so to speak, but it was repetitive: Except team recruiting and loyalty missions, there was not much to the main storyline. The final mission felt very short as well, especially compared to ME1's 2-hour marathon after you go through the Conduit.
It's long, but I really like this guy's critique of the series. Touches on many of the standard arguments, but provided some novel insights that I hadn't considered as well:
http://youtu.be/hct5WeBmsUM
I especially liked his look at ME2 and 3 essentially being 1 game split into two parts.
http://youtu.be/hct5WeBmsUM
I especially liked his look at ME2 and 3 essentially being 1 game split into two parts.
Hawkeye 131
Member
It'd be nice if you could equip heavy weapons again a la ME2. I never understood why they switched to a pick-up only system for heavy weapons in ME3.
The black hole singularity projector gun was my favourite by far, the Cain nuke launcher was a close second.
The black hole singularity projector gun was my favourite by far, the Cain nuke launcher was a close second.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I only felt that in ME1 on Ilos. The rest feels more like The Phantom Menace!
I completely and always shared this sentiment. I was flabbergasted at Bioware's approach to "fixing issues" by entirely removing them in ME2 and onwards. The Mako and Elevators were not pure shit. They just needed some more effort put into them.
Yup. Mass Effect 1 It's almost its own thing. The leap was way bigger between 1-2 than 2-3, but that ain't news for anyone.
Having played ME2 before ME1, going back to ME1 it felt like some of the magic of ME was lost (namely the characters, who are all worse-written versions of themselves).
Having said that, I can sympathize with those who feel ME1 was greater than the sum of its parts. I definitely feel that way about Dragon Age: Inquisition.
Guess you just as me played ME on the PS3. I also played ME2 before ME1 and had the opposite feeling. Playing ME1 made ME2 retroactively worse for me (not bad though). Might be because ME1 really itched that Star trek: NG itch i have in a way i haven't experienced before, and i'm a huge NG fan.
Hyperzephyrian
Banned
Since I've spent a fair bit of time harping on the ways that ME2 and ME3 abandoned the direction set forth in ME1, I think I should say this, for posterity: I like all the games. I wouldn't say I like them equally, but I wasn't disappointed in the direction that the series took. I just very much want to see what a more polished and improved game in the same vein as ME1 would look like.
I don't honestly expect that from BioWare Montreal, but you never know. Even if ME4 ends up being very similar ME2/ME3, I'll probably be happy with it, provided that it's well-executed.
I don't honestly expect that from BioWare Montreal, but you never know. Even if ME4 ends up being very similar ME2/ME3, I'll probably be happy with it, provided that it's well-executed.
I'm watching this right now and I like a lot of his critique, I feel like the only other video I've seen from a person that really understands Mass Effect is MrBtoungue. I really like the comparison that Mass Effect 1 is a movie whilst Mass Effect 2 is a season of a TV show. That's really how I've always seen it, it's also why I love ME2 slightly more than ME1. The TV format allows you to more fully explore the galaxy at your own pace and explore more themes and conflicts.
It's just rumors made of out of thin air.
I do think and support this.
CGwizz
Member
what id they make like 8 planets with areas like dragon age inquisition to be explorable?
TheUnsunghero26
Member
Assuming it's true, which studio is likely to port the trilogy? Demigure, Straight Right, and Edge of Reality have all done ports for the series, so maybe it could be one of them. Maybe even Bluepoint? I haven't played the 360 version of Titanfall, but from what I've heard the port is excellent.
Also, how many big releases are on Unreal Engine for this gen so far? I see that a lot of upcoming projects from Microsoft are going to use UE4, so I'm hoping that porting UE3 games to the console should go pretty smoothly.
Also, how many big releases are on Unreal Engine for this gen so far? I see that a lot of upcoming projects from Microsoft are going to use UE4, so I'm hoping that porting UE3 games to the console should go pretty smoothly.
VisceralBowl
Member
I really want to replay the entire trilogy but I don't have ME3 on PC and I don't have the DLC for ME3 on 360.
firstworldproblems
Yeah, think I'm gonna replay ME1 on pc for like the 13th time. Have ME2 on PC as well but my ME3 is with my 360 back home :/
Playing Dragon Age: Inquisition has really made me want to play Mass Effect. The world building in that game is amazing and with the Frostbite engine, exploring worlds in ME4 is going to consume me in every possible way.
The Artisan
Member
Do you guys think maybe they'll go the halo route and it'll be another whole trilogy for this gen gaming? Mass Effect 4/5/6 even though I heard em say they won't even call Me4 Me4
LocarionStorm
Neo Member
If it sells, then for sure. Money talks.
I recently completed the series for the first time. Note: I knew about the final battle in each game due to the proliferation of spoilers across the net.
I wasn't that big of a fan of the Mako exploration; hear me out.
It was definitely fun climbing those mountains and finding those weird orbs, but most of the environments were incredibly uninteresting. There's very little to find in those open worlds. It's probably the reason why I didn't miss the Mako sections that much in ME2.
However, the concept is still great and it should return in ME4 if done correctly.
Each game has its set of advantages; ME1 was unpredictable and interesting throughout. There really was a sense of urgency and mystery, although the latter is due to the fact that it is the first installment in the franchise. I felt similar feelings with Halo CE, even though Halo 2 was my favorite story due to the far better world building, voice acting and character development in that game. I quite liked the loot/RPG elements; this game is the first RPG I have ever completed. The game's ultimate Paragon ending was great because it tied in all of the plot points that game initially establishes. These include humanity's role in the galaxy, the role of Spectres, the Council, the dangers of colonization, and of course, the Reapers. However, the game was dull at points, and the menu presentation/gameplay needed improvement.
Mass Effect 2 had the best combat in my opinion; enemies were easy to see and interesting. The weapons were the best. The hubs were great, as was the music and all of the new characters. The general presentation was vastly superior to Mass Effect 1 and 3; especially the performance and the menus. This game had the best dialogue and humour out of the three. Unfortunately the sense of urgency was lost throughout most of the game, since it involved dossiers and loyalty missions, as opposed to the ME1 chase of Saren.
Mass Effect 3 saw some of the most satisfying conclusions to plot points in regards to the Genophage, Quarian-Geth battles and TIM, although the ending still bugs me even with the EC. Easily the best looking game of the bunch, I also quite liked how the characters from the previous two games were all present. There were improvements in gameplay over ME2, but I also felt that ME2 had its advantages in that regard. The menu felt like a step back, and I was no longer able to get consistent 60FPS with DSR on 750ti due to seemingly random framerate drops. I was disappointed at the lack of dialogue options, because being forced to watch an unskippable cutscene felt jarring compared to the previous two games.
Each game has its highs and lows; it's really hard for me to decide a clear cut favorite. I think that ME3 is host to the worst and best moments in the franchise, ME1 had story structure, and that ME2 was the most consistent game overall.
I wasn't that big of a fan of the Mako exploration; hear me out.
It was definitely fun climbing those mountains and finding those weird orbs, but most of the environments were incredibly uninteresting. There's very little to find in those open worlds. It's probably the reason why I didn't miss the Mako sections that much in ME2.
However, the concept is still great and it should return in ME4 if done correctly.
Each game has its set of advantages; ME1 was unpredictable and interesting throughout. There really was a sense of urgency and mystery, although the latter is due to the fact that it is the first installment in the franchise. I felt similar feelings with Halo CE, even though Halo 2 was my favorite story due to the far better world building, voice acting and character development in that game. I quite liked the loot/RPG elements; this game is the first RPG I have ever completed. The game's ultimate Paragon ending was great because it tied in all of the plot points that game initially establishes. These include humanity's role in the galaxy, the role of Spectres, the Council, the dangers of colonization, and of course, the Reapers. However, the game was dull at points, and the menu presentation/gameplay needed improvement.
Mass Effect 2 had the best combat in my opinion; enemies were easy to see and interesting. The weapons were the best. The hubs were great, as was the music and all of the new characters. The general presentation was vastly superior to Mass Effect 1 and 3; especially the performance and the menus. This game had the best dialogue and humour out of the three. Unfortunately the sense of urgency was lost throughout most of the game, since it involved dossiers and loyalty missions, as opposed to the ME1 chase of Saren.
Mass Effect 3 saw some of the most satisfying conclusions to plot points in regards to the Genophage, Quarian-Geth battles and TIM, although the ending still bugs me even with the EC. Easily the best looking game of the bunch, I also quite liked how the characters from the previous two games were all present. There were improvements in gameplay over ME2, but I also felt that ME2 had its advantages in that regard. The menu felt like a step back, and I was no longer able to get consistent 60FPS with DSR on 750ti due to seemingly random framerate drops. I was disappointed at the lack of dialogue options, because being forced to watch an unskippable cutscene felt jarring compared to the previous two games.
Each game has its highs and lows; it's really hard for me to decide a clear cut favorite. I think that ME3 is host to the worst and best moments in the franchise, ME1 had story structure, and that ME2 was the most consistent game overall.
Ultra Numb
Member
I wonder how they're going to do this more open-ended design thing, assuming it turns out like that.
I mean it's just not reasonable to expect several dozens of planets to be explorable at any-time, not be complete arse [ME1] but instead be filled with content, cities, actual quests [none of that fetch rubbish]
I mean it's just not reasonable to expect several dozens of planets to be explorable at any-time, not be complete arse [ME1] but instead be filled with content, cities, actual quests [none of that fetch rubbish]
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I expect a lot of Mass Effect-like uncharted worlds, unlocked throughout the galaxy map using some Inquisition-like economy system, with similar fetch/hunt quest structure to Inquisition, differentiated by scattering said objectives further apart to emphasise vehicle use, planetary hazards, and the conquering of terrain.
The Artisan
Member
well they'd had to plan it beforehand. from my understanding, ME ws pllanned as a trilogy from its inception
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Congrats, you've just discovered my own personal idea of gaming hell.
Nostremitus
Member
Remove the economy system to unlock planets and you just described the Mako exploration in Mass Effect 1. Worst part of the game.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Don't worry they'll go too far in the opposite direction and you'll need to click the left stick to scan for minerals every 10 seconds while driving across the terrain.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Did I play ME1 so many times I now have brain damage or something?
Because none of this sounds like a deal breaker. And could even become the next thing I waste a thousand hours of my life on.
Ivory Samoan
Member
I think I may be the only person who liked the left click for loot mechanic in DA:I
In book news, was Deception ever re-edited?
I meant to read it...but it just sounded disastrous on release, I was put off.
(once the radar ping was implemented pls).
In book news, was Deception ever re-edited?
I meant to read it...but it just sounded disastrous on release, I was put off.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The looting in DAI (KB&M) was unforgivable not because of the ping, but because you had to simultaneously be in range, and also mouse over what you wanted to pick up. The worst of both worlds. At least with gamepad you just have to be in range and hit A.
ConanTheKing
Member
So the Mako is making a return and that's great. The driving sections were dull in Mass Effect, but there was an intention there for the developers to make the player feel like an explorer, travelling to far off planets and making great discoveries.
Didn't work out so well, but it could work with another attempt.
Didn't work out so well, but it could work with another attempt.
HarryHengst
Member
Pretty much every quest ever made in an RPG is "go there, get that", "go there, kill that" or "go there, push that button", which are all variations on fetch quests, so you are asking for something really difficult.
Funyarinpa
Member
Maybe with multiple pathways this time on the planets, and better aiming and shooting mechanics...
Trying to get your sights on the geth was a continuous pain
DOWN
Banned
I didn't like the Matriarch writings specifically, but damn was it nice driving to a plateau under a flaring blue foreign sun, stepping onto the warm dust, and hearing the atmospheric silence as you look around a long-empty post where a scientist once lived a very small life with big intention. They disappeared at an unknown time, but it's humbling to think about being out there. Being the astronaut who followed the signals on uncharted worlds, feeling small, going farther.
Only visiting civilized, lush, currently inhabitable spaces doesn't feel like a whole concept of space travel and science. Most of space is quiet and grand, with not a hint of life except for the fragments that have scattered there from safer homes.
I don't want the lack of variety I can understand people's distaste for from Mass Effect, but I don't want them to lose the character and vastness that an adventurous astronaut ideal would reach, which Mass Effect had. I'd like some rich points of interest and varied outposts, but split between both the lush and intriguing planets we've seen in the campaigns and loyalty missions, and the truly open and chilling terrains of the extreme and distant planets that make up most of space.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
You know how in Fellowship of the Ring, Bilbo gets all nostalgic and tells Gandalf how he wants to see mountains and foreign lands again? This is what he was talking about, combined with the subtle, almost alien background music just driving around these vast expanses was something else. Would like more variety though, weather, rock formations, maybe even lakes or forests
razzmahtazz
Member
They should work on context and consequence better. XP, Loot and Gold by any name arent worthwhile rewards anymore.
This! I still remember the first time I landed on barren planet only to see a dual star in the sky.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Look, bud. You think you are funny, but you are not funny. This is not funny. Please adjust your funniness levels.
prag16
Banned
Well in my opinion all that IS part of why they ending was bad. For me it wasn't JUST the color coded A, B, C. It was all the other weak plot devices and holes too. Having the reapers cnveniently flying the Citadel to Earth in particular. Dafuq.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I don't have enough platinum to upgrade it yet, I'll try again later.
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