When the response to something like Sandusky and his accomplices involves gatherings, speeches and demonstrations in their favor, as well as harassment, bullying and "truthing", a scalpel doesn't do the job. This whole shit needed to be wiped off the map. If it antagonizes some nutbags, so be it.
NCAA restores Paterno's vacated wins
- Thread starter mre
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Stupid assumptions? Its very common for Penn State apologists to put forward that argument. Its a deflection that is irrelevant to the situation at Penn State. Whether or not you meant it as this I do not know.
Nobody thinks that all crimes warrant taking away wins etc. You have to consider that as an institution Penn State covered up crimes by one of its coaches. You are going to find that this warrants MUCH more severe punishment than if that had just turned him in. In fact that wouldn't have received punishment at all. Same shit happens to other teams when they try and cover up stuff. Look at Ohio State or any other team that has tried this in the past. Considering that this was child abuse and not making money off memorabilia it got extra punishment.
Let me put it this way. One of the worst things a University can do in the eyes of the NCAA is purposely cover shit up. That is EXACTLY what Penn State did.
Dion Blaster
Member
Even if you believe Joe "did enough" (which, according to U.S. law, he did not) the administration obviously didn't do enough after Joe informed them. I cannot think of a single reason those wins should be reinstated.
They are lucky the program didn't receiver the death sentence. PSU supporters should shut the fuck up while they're ahead.
They are lucky the program didn't receiver the death sentence. PSU supporters should shut the fuck up while they're ahead.
"Who cares about that child rape cover up, give us our sportsball wins back!" sounds pretty wrong to me.
timetokill
Banned
It would make the crazy Happy Valley cult feel vindicated that JoePa was a saint and that nothing about their football culture has anything wrong with it whatsoever
prag16
Banned
Checking back in here a couple hours later against my better judgment...
Are you hearing yourself?
As for McQueary, in my absence somebody else explained the issues with him (and my personal experience with him indicates to me that such actions are not a surprise; maybe the big dumb meathead comment was a little flippant and counterproductive, granted). I was posting from my phone, making it difficult to type long posts (though I ended up typing enough shorter posts that it wouldn't have mattered).
No doubt some administrators (including Paterno to some extent) should have done more. Tim Curly in particular seems likely to have been looking the other way deliberately at least to some real extent. But we don't know a lot of the details. The shower incident in particular had no identified victim at that time, and the VP in charge of campus police (Gary Schultz) was one of those notified (yes, granted he could have also gone to city police with it, but didn't at that time; after all he wasn't actually a witness, and McQueary later changed his story multiple times, in some cases downplaying it).
Nevertheless, to frame things such that we can state as FACT that PSU (and Paterno) worked actively to enable and harbor ongoing child rapes over a 10+ year period is disingenuous (if not absurd on its face).
Paterno was a pillar in that community for many decades. And without absolute proof that he's an evil piece of shit (which we never got, despite your claims), of course people familiar with him are not going to instantly accept that all he has accomplished in his lifetime is suddenly null and void. This sentiment can manifest without there being a personality cult, or people donning tinfoil hats; dismissing every "Penn State supporter" in such a way is also disingenuous.
And as it is he seems to be the only one in this whole debacle to even admit he screwed up at any point. Not even Sandusky did that; he still claims innocence. The NCAA continues to admit they didn't really have the jurisdiction to do what they did. A bit late for that though, as the whole narrative has already long since been burned into everyone's minds.
But of course I say all this from a position which isn't the perceived moral high ground, so none of it will matter to many of you.
Are you hearing yourself?
As for McQueary, in my absence somebody else explained the issues with him (and my personal experience with him indicates to me that such actions are not a surprise; maybe the big dumb meathead comment was a little flippant and counterproductive, granted). I was posting from my phone, making it difficult to type long posts (though I ended up typing enough shorter posts that it wouldn't have mattered).
No doubt some administrators (including Paterno to some extent) should have done more. Tim Curly in particular seems likely to have been looking the other way deliberately at least to some real extent. But we don't know a lot of the details. The shower incident in particular had no identified victim at that time, and the VP in charge of campus police (Gary Schultz) was one of those notified (yes, granted he could have also gone to city police with it, but didn't at that time; after all he wasn't actually a witness, and McQueary later changed his story multiple times, in some cases downplaying it).
Nevertheless, to frame things such that we can state as FACT that PSU (and Paterno) worked actively to enable and harbor ongoing child rapes over a 10+ year period is disingenuous (if not absurd on its face).
Paterno was a pillar in that community for many decades. And without absolute proof that he's an evil piece of shit (which we never got, despite your claims), of course people familiar with him are not going to instantly accept that all he has accomplished in his lifetime is suddenly null and void. This sentiment can manifest without there being a personality cult, or people donning tinfoil hats; dismissing every "Penn State supporter" in such a way is also disingenuous.
And as it is he seems to be the only one in this whole debacle to even admit he screwed up at any point. Not even Sandusky did that; he still claims innocence. The NCAA continues to admit they didn't really have the jurisdiction to do what they did. A bit late for that though, as the whole narrative has already long since been burned into everyone's minds.
But of course I say all this from a position which isn't the perceived moral high ground, so none of it will matter to many of you.
whatsinaname
Member
It doesn't matter. When a crime or fraud is uncovered, the recipients of the ill gotten gains do not get to keep them. In case of theft, the stolen goods are taken back from anyone who had bought them unawares; usually without any compensation. If Bernie Madoff had made money for you, you are shit out of luck. You don't get to keep that money. All you can do is be careful who you trust next time.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Universities and corporations are awful enough with/without sports.
Skellig Gra
Member
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Really, it takes immense fortitude to win while you're also actively ignoring child rape. If anything, those wins mean twice as much as they should.
PhoenixDawn
Member
Are you fucking kidding me.. The whole damn program should have just been shut down for five+ years so they could actually think about all of the fucked up things they supported or ignored just because FOOTBALL IS AWESOME GUYS. It just sickens me that people were and still are protesting Penn State's punishment (which was extremely light imo), just because they loved their coach and he won sport games without much care for the trauma the victims have to endure for the rest of their lives probably.
Mac the KNife
Member
Appalling.
I mean, if you think about it, if JoePa hadn't done that, and Penn St had started losing games, the true victims would've been the innocent students and businesses of Penn St. He was protecting the people who really mattered.
Skellig Gra
Member
Well I guess they never got sued by a state before because of it. All the other times they had the dignity to take their deserved punishment.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Good. It will serve as a reminder at the depths people will sink to in order to preserve a sports program.
I feel sort of conflicted about this. I never thought the wins should have been vacated in the first place. That sort of seemed like the lesser issue. What the NCAA should have done was given them a one-year death penalty or actually stuck with the four year bowl ban, scholarship losses, no national TV exposure, etc.
It doesn't even matter now. Stupid PSU football cult members can now claim their coach has the most wins ever. They got what they wanted and even won a bowl game this year. Makes the NCAA look like fools.
It doesn't even matter now. Stupid PSU football cult members can now claim their coach has the most wins ever. They got what they wanted and even won a bowl game this year. Makes the NCAA look like fools.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
How soon before the statute is taken out of storage?
Skellig Gra
Member
The worst thing about this is that in the NCAA's eyes, players who took money (basically paid to play instead of being taking advantage of to the tune of billions of dollars) are somehow worse than protecting a child molester. It's just a complete joke of an organization.
I'm guessing this will be done as quietly as possible because they know its shameful.
Someone should build a jail cell around it.
PhoenixDawn
Member
Not long at all, I'm also pretty sure they approved plans to build another bronze statue of him a couple of miles away from where the original one was. It's disgusting.
terrisus
Member
Well, that really taught them a lesson.
Well hey, they really focused on getting those wins back!
terrisus
Member
Seriously, UMass loses a pile of wins and a great season, and Memphis loses a finals appearance because of the "horrors comitted by John Calipari..."
But, cover up child abuse for years, and ¯\_(ツ
_/¯Skellig Gra
Member
You also forgot if Pennsylvania wasn't a shit state with nothing going on they wouldn't cling to college football as the meaning of life.
EnlightenedMint
Member
The NCAA is a joke.
The NCAA doesn't want to single Paterno out here, guys. Surely he's not the only one, but he's the one who gets persecuted for it every time.
I suspect they'll institute formalized harsh rules at the same time so that these sorts of situations can be handled more uniformly in the future: anyone who molests a child will miss at least 4 games of the regular season.
I suspect they'll institute formalized harsh rules at the same time so that these sorts of situations can be handled more uniformly in the future: anyone who molests a child will miss at least 4 games of the regular season.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
2 after appeal.
Megalosaro
Banned
That's actually workplace protocall.
yellow submarine
Member
The rules truly are different if you are successful and/or rich.
Being a failure or poor is a crime.
Being a failure or poor is a crime.
Mac the KNife
Member
Unless it's before the playoffs/bowls in which case punishment will be carried out at the beginning of the next season.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
So football > child molestation. Got it.
Seems a bit more strict compared to the NFL. Gotta lead the way in some areas I suppose.
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