Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Yup.
Star Wars Episode I: is it that bad!?
- Thread starter Christopher
- Start date
- Status
I rewatched all 3 prequels and I was shocked to discover that Phantom Menace is probably the best of the bunch.
Don't get me wrong, it's still utter bantha shit, but I found out that the pod race, while ultimately pointless, is actually fun. And I'd be lying if I don't get goosebumps when "Duel of fates" starts playing.
Crap movie, but it's so much better than episode II, which is arguably "the worst thing ever made by a human being". Phantom Menace is just offensively bland and mediocre. AOTC should be handled like toxic waste.
Don't get me wrong, it's still utter bantha shit, but I found out that the pod race, while ultimately pointless, is actually fun. And I'd be lying if I don't get goosebumps when "Duel of fates" starts playing.
Crap movie, but it's so much better than episode II, which is arguably "the worst thing ever made by a human being". Phantom Menace is just offensively bland and mediocre. AOTC should be handled like toxic waste.
Delta Assault
Member
I feel like AOTC got a pass on release because everybody got caught up in the afterglow of the Yoda lightsaber fight. They temporarily forgot about the shit romance dialogue and "I hate sand."
In the thirteen years since the film came out I haven't met a single person over the age of ten who didn't think the Yoda fight was unintentionally hilarious...
Or drunk.
Definitely worse than the original trilogy (and arguably episode 3), but it beats out 2, not that that's difficult.
What it got right:
Podracing blew me away as a kid. The sequence gave me both a new awesome vehicle in the Star Wars universe and a great videogame on the N64.
Darth Maul and his double-bladed lightsaber.
Liam Neeson/Qui-Gon.
The soundtrack, but that's a given in any Star Wars film.
What it got wrong:
Jar-Jar. Just why? At least he lasted only one movie as a main character before getting shoved into a side/background one.
The acting and dialogue. Acting teeters between good and non-existent and the dialogue isn't much better.
Overall, it's not the greatest movie, and far from a good Star Wars one.
What it got right:
Podracing blew me away as a kid. The sequence gave me both a new awesome vehicle in the Star Wars universe and a great videogame on the N64.
Darth Maul and his double-bladed lightsaber.
Liam Neeson/Qui-Gon.
The soundtrack, but that's a given in any Star Wars film.
What it got wrong:
Jar-Jar. Just why? At least he lasted only one movie as a main character before getting shoved into a side/background one.
The acting and dialogue. Acting teeters between good and non-existent and the dialogue isn't much better.
Overall, it's not the greatest movie, and far from a good Star Wars one.
Phantom Menace is good in a campy way, as opposed to just striaght up bad like Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.
The music is great, its got some neat (actual!) sets and varied color palettes. Plus that lightsaber fight and Liam Neeson are cool. Anakin's actor is dumb, but dumb in a child actor way, as opposed to a grown up, bad actor way. Which is a good frame of reference for the prequel trilogy.
Still nowhere near the originals. Like, what do you leave the theater with? Which character are you invested in by the end?
The music is great, its got some neat (actual!) sets and varied color palettes. Plus that lightsaber fight and Liam Neeson are cool. Anakin's actor is dumb, but dumb in a child actor way, as opposed to a grown up, bad actor way. Which is a good frame of reference for the prequel trilogy.
Still nowhere near the originals. Like, what do you leave the theater with? Which character are you invested in by the end?
"Star Wars: The Phantom Menace is the most disappointing thing since my son.... While my son eventually hanged himself in the bathroom of a gas station the unfortunate reality about the star wars prequels is that they will be around.....forever.....they will never go away.....they will never be undone."
Mr. Plinkett
Mr. Plinkett
I dunno, I walked out of the theater in 2002 pretty disappointed by it. Watching CG C3PO and R2-D2 get thrown around like in a Pixar movie really hit me hard. I was just shaking my head in disbelief.
And don't get me started on that fucking space 50s diner. I genuinely felt that I was being mocked.
Higgins113
Banned
I'll try spinning. That's a good trick!
there is a lot I like about it. it's not a good film when you judge it strictly as a film. But as a star wars experience I think it delivered a lot, at least for me. I didn't hate the midi-chlorians like a lot of people and I was able to brush off jar jar for the most part, and aside from the political aspects being pretty unexciting, I loved qui-gon, obi-wan, padme and yes even young anakin. the podracing and pretty much all the jedi stuff were fantastic.
But yeah I'm just happy the prequels are behind us. For me, i can look back on them and remember the good bits and downplay the parts that weren't so good. I'm more interested in looking fowards towards Episode VII and beyond. As well as all of the Marvel comics, novels and Star Wars: Rebels. I'm enjoying being into Star Wars a great deal lately.
But yeah I'm just happy the prequels are behind us. For me, i can look back on them and remember the good bits and downplay the parts that weren't so good. I'm more interested in looking fowards towards Episode VII and beyond. As well as all of the Marvel comics, novels and Star Wars: Rebels. I'm enjoying being into Star Wars a great deal lately.
Robot Pants
Member
For the 200 BILLIONTH TIME, YES!
It's diabolical.
Watch the RedLetterMedia review if you hasn't where he dismembers every part of the film so beautifully.
But basically.
Qui Gon is a complete idiot and his entire character is unnecessary.
Obi Wan is seen to begrudgingly take on Anakin as an apprentice
That 'Force Speed' thing where they get away from the droids. Yeah that pretty much annihilates any other combat scenario from then onward, it really is the visible manifestation of when a writer has no fucking idea how to get out of the hole they've written themselves into
That force speed sure could have came in handy when Obi Wan got separated in the duel huh?
Padme is presented somewhat of a paedophile
Jar Jar Bellend
Space politics
Unseen crisis on Naboo
Where were the rest of the council when the Sith finally returned? They should have sent about 100 Jedi to go with them
Anakin built C3P0
Schmi is the Virgin Mary
Midiclorians
Goongas
What is the point of the film anyway? Episode II takes place nearly a decade later? Why was this film even made? Nothing that happens in this film matters one bit.
Watch the RedLetterMedia review if you hasn't where he dismembers every part of the film so beautifully.
But basically.
Qui Gon is a complete idiot and his entire character is unnecessary.
Obi Wan is seen to begrudgingly take on Anakin as an apprentice
That 'Force Speed' thing where they get away from the droids. Yeah that pretty much annihilates any other combat scenario from then onward, it really is the visible manifestation of when a writer has no fucking idea how to get out of the hole they've written themselves into
That force speed sure could have came in handy when Obi Wan got separated in the duel huh?
Padme is presented somewhat of a paedophile
Jar Jar Bellend
Space politics
Unseen crisis on Naboo
Where were the rest of the council when the Sith finally returned? They should have sent about 100 Jedi to go with them
Anakin built C3P0
Schmi is the Virgin Mary
Midiclorians
Goongas
What is the point of the film anyway? Episode II takes place nearly a decade later? Why was this film even made? Nothing that happens in this film matters one bit.
As someone who was never a SW fan, neither loving nor disliking the original trilogy, the prequels were objectively bad. They're just not good films. The performances are crap, the plot is crap, they're not any fun. They're not like Raiders of the Lost Ark, or Goodfellas, or Terminator 2. Someone says one of those is a 4/4 star film you can see the argument even if you personally don't like any of those films. Episode 1? If you give it a personal rating of 4/4 I am just going to assume you haven't watched a lot of films and have pretty poor taste in general.
I have no idea what lines Hayden might have ad libbed, if any.
Solo's famous "I know" line was entirely Harrison Ford.
Ewan McGregor came out looking good from the prequels. Ian McDarmid maybe as well since him hamming it up in Episode 3 was fun.
Ep2 was bad but at least it cut down on the gungans and child acting which at the time people really hated from Ep 1, it was like George Lucas listened to some of the fans' criticism for Ep 2 and 3 (there was still too much young Boba, in fact Star Wars having kid actors at all is pretty bad for this universe in my opinion)
Coruscant Chase > Podracing
Slave I fight > Naboo fighter scene
Clonetroopers > Gungans
Fett/Clone Wars/Yoda > Maul, submarine chase, and Droid fights
Deathsticks > poop jokes
Dat sand though. And 3P0 and R2 gave Jar Jar a run for his money when it comes to jumping the shark
Interesting and I think you're right that was the only natural sounding dialogue between them
Spieler Eins
Member
At least your son eventually hanged himself in the back of a gas station. Unfortunately, episode 1 will be around forever.
Stereogatari
Banned
Oh wow I always assumed he was still getting work beyond Star Wars. Just a normal dude like the rest of us. Wonder how much he made.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
Well, maybe not so bad.
I mean, we got Weird Al Yankovic making a parody song about it, so that's a plus i guess...
I mean, we got Weird Al Yankovic making a parody song about it, so that's a plus i guess...
Rawr Its Ry
Member
Rewatched it when they had the 3D re-release, fell asleep when they met sebulba and woke up during the 2v1 lightsaber duel, woke up and had my friends laugh at me
Dragonborn
Member
No, it's not that bad. Episode 2 is worse in my opinion
RPGCrazied
Member
The Darth Maul fight was the best thing in the entire movie. This is what killed episode I for me:
BlastProcessing
Member
It's not "slaves need freedom" It's "One slave that I want for selfish reasons needs to be mine".
How is it that The Jedi Order would condone slavery at all? Why would a Jedi pay a slaver? Why require a child to engage in a hyper dangerous death sport to get the money to pay the slaver? Does the Galaxy not have a Western Union? Yoda's not good for it? If you know that Anakin is super important and that fear and anger could lead him to the darkside, why in the blue hell would you allow his mother to remain a slave?
If the Jedi Order is cool with any of this, then how are they better than the Empire again? They don't seem to respect freedom at all. They just want to collect Midichlorians like baseball cards. Why are they far more concerned with a trade negotiation than full blown slavery? Is it because the trade stuff affects them directly? It all seems pretty petty. Then when a Clone Army suddenly mysteriously appears, the Jedi are totally cool with using them. They have no problems ordering Clones to throw away their lives. How is any of this ethical?
Qui-Gon's actions would make more sense if he was a Sith apprentice. He ignores basic human decency to serve Anakin to the Darkside on a silver platter.
Bonus Questions: Why did Lucas make the slaver a lovable curmudgeon? Why did they sell action figures of a Slaver?
PaperFlame
Member
It was a good kids movie, I enjoyed it a lot when I was little. I remember watching the fourth movie after and it bored me to death.
I'll probably have a different opinion if I watch them all again now, but I never really have the time and focus on it. I rather wait when the seventh one comes out so I can watch it all in one go like I did for the hobbit (which was amazing except for a few scenes and not enough bilbo).
I'll probably have a different opinion if I watch them all again now, but I never really have the time and focus on it. I rather wait when the seventh one comes out so I can watch it all in one go like I did for the hobbit (which was amazing except for a few scenes and not enough bilbo).
Dragonborn
Member
Because Tatooine is under the control of the Hutts, not the Jedi (or Republic). They say it in the movie, republic credits are no good there.
I think technically that was a re-write because he did discuss the line with the writers.
Such a boss moment.
Secret Fawful
Member
Having sat through The Phantom Menace 3D release in theaters just to have seen a Star Wars movie in theaters, I have to say that the biggest complaint I can make about it is that it is just boring. I nearly fell asleep multiple times throughout it, and I never ever want to see it again.
Also, as much as I love the Red Letter Media guys and their work, I have recently gotten tired of going into new discussions about George Lucas and Star Wars, only to find that instead of actual discussion there is like two pages of Plinkett jokes and quotes, not just on this forum. Which is fine, I've just heard said quotes a million times, and it makes for a less interesting read than what I hope for going in. I still contribute anyway, though.
Also, as much as I love the Red Letter Media guys and their work, I have recently gotten tired of going into new discussions about George Lucas and Star Wars, only to find that instead of actual discussion there is like two pages of Plinkett jokes and quotes, not just on this forum. Which is fine, I've just heard said quotes a million times, and it makes for a less interesting read than what I hope for going in. I still contribute anyway, though.
From my perspective a totally inessential movie. Had very little impact on setting the stage for later films, they might have well have started at Episode 2 and spent the time properly exploring their characters and dramatizing their setting.
Not that movie in a franchise can't be its own self contained thing, but there's little of redeeming quality in this movie anyway. I mostly can't care about what's going on from scene to scene, and since most of the acting and plot I find rather boring it's a tough few hours.
I hadn't watched it for a few years and went back and forgot just how much it rubbed me the wrong way. There's a reason those RLM reviews resonate with so many people, even if they are a tad long and nitpicky.
Not that movie in a franchise can't be its own self contained thing, but there's little of redeeming quality in this movie anyway. I mostly can't care about what's going on from scene to scene, and since most of the acting and plot I find rather boring it's a tough few hours.
I hadn't watched it for a few years and went back and forgot just how much it rubbed me the wrong way. There's a reason those RLM reviews resonate with so many people, even if they are a tad long and nitpicky.
BlastProcessing
Member
That really only answers one of my questions and even then, are the Hutts more powerful than the Jedi? What, exactly, do the Jedi stand for? What are they willing to fight for? They don't even try to help anyone on Tatooine other than themselves and the one kid who has value to them. The concept doesn't even seem to enter their minds.
The Prequels have no moral center.
Master Yoshi
Member
http://youtu.be/6_rzI7Y_NUs
I don't believe there is a more powerful piece of music in the entire saga.
I don't believe there is a more powerful piece of music in the entire saga.
I don't expect you to hate the movies or think that his opinion is law but he points of very well why they're flawed movies and how insanely different they are from the original trilogy. George Lucas was totally clueless when making the movies and everyone around him just agreed because they're dependent on him for their jobs.
This is the same situation that is happening around Peter Jackson at the moment. These people forget that films are collaborations and just start using their word as the law.
CraigerGamer
Member
It still pisses me off how bad Lucas messed this all up.
Phantom Menace should have been the start of an epic orgins type story on a truly evil and merciless character.
Instead we got midichlorians.
Set scene:
Normal kid with unusual, unexplainable gifts is found by accident by Jedi knights. Through a series of events they witness his never-before-seen talents, assume he will be their savior, and attempt to tame them. But they find his temper and arrogance to be almost as powerful as his natural abilities in the Force. He finds love. He loses love. He vows to make the universe as dark as his broken heart can allow it.
But he has a son and daughter....
How f'n difficult is that????
Phantom Menace should have been the start of an epic orgins type story on a truly evil and merciless character.
Instead we got midichlorians.
Set scene:
Normal kid with unusual, unexplainable gifts is found by accident by Jedi knights. Through a series of events they witness his never-before-seen talents, assume he will be their savior, and attempt to tame them. But they find his temper and arrogance to be almost as powerful as his natural abilities in the Force. He finds love. He loses love. He vows to make the universe as dark as his broken heart can allow it.
But he has a son and daughter....
How f'n difficult is that????
AdrianT1987
Banned
I actually enjoy the Phantom Menace for these reasons
The Podrace
The End Battle (Especially the Lightsaber fight)
aaaaand thats about it the rest of the film is just watchable to get to the good parts
Also this is my first Neogaf post YES!
The Podrace
The End Battle (Especially the Lightsaber fight)
aaaaand thats about it the rest of the film is just watchable to get to the good parts
Also this is my first Neogaf post YES!
Why is it that so many people seem to think that "OT has flaws too!" somehow excuses the crap in the prequel films?
glaringradio
Member
I get the feeling that if I hadn't have seen/enjoyed The Fifth Element so much, 2 whole years before Phantom Menace was released, I would have had an entirely different opinion about it.
I mean really, how is it possible that with whatever budget it had, Phantom Menace looked like a steaming pile of shit, whilst Fifth Element still holds up today and looks absolutely glorious.
Yes yes, practical effects. George Lucas is a lazy twat. Etc. etc. etc.
I mean really, how is it possible that with whatever budget it had, Phantom Menace looked like a steaming pile of shit, whilst Fifth Element still holds up today and looks absolutely glorious.
Yes yes, practical effects. George Lucas is a lazy twat. Etc. etc. etc.
GillianSeed79
Member
I don't know. I'm a huge Star Wars fan. I watched Episode 1 as an adult and found it utterly disappointing, perhaps more so than the other two prequel movies because those are largely forgettable.
Even if you cut it slack and look at it through the lens that "it's just a kids' film," I still think it's a terrible movie and a bad children's movie. I could see someone liking as a kid if they watched it because, generally speaking, kids will watch crap movies and like them, but if you watch it again as an adult and still like it, I just question your taste in films. And I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan.
Even if you cut it slack and look at it through the lens that "it's just a kids' film," I still think it's a terrible movie and a bad children's movie. I could see someone liking as a kid if they watched it because, generally speaking, kids will watch crap movies and like them, but if you watch it again as an adult and still like it, I just question your taste in films. And I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan.
gutter_trash
Banned
there is a gigantic 45 minutes to almost an hour of total snooze on Tatooine
the funniest thing about Episode 1 is that Kenobe doesn't give a shit about the boy and even talks bad about the boy while he was 10 feet away from him (the boy is dangerous)
the funniest thing about Episode 1 is that Kenobe doesn't give a shit about the boy and even talks bad about the boy while he was 10 feet away from him (the boy is dangerous)
Are the Hutts more powerful than the Jedi? In this corner of the galaxy, yes. It's like Al Capone. Do you really think America was perfectly fine with him because he got away with his crimes for so long? Remember, he was so good at not getting caught that he could only be put away for tax evasion. The Hutts are similar. A vast criminal enterprise who are really good at avoiding the noose. And you can't just go kill the Hutts. Not only do you risk a costly war, you have to deal with the fallout. Who replaces the leaders? How do you go about the economy? How do you ensure the wellbeing of the slaves you freed? As sad is it is, Qui-Gon Jin couldn't really do anything here about the slaves as a whole.
The problem you are having is that you are trying to make this as black and white as possible. And I don't blame you, the series itself is guilty of this. But stop trying to turn the Jedi Council into this "must be good" standard and think of them as a futuristic knight order. While chivalry was a code for the order in theory, in practice what was important to the order came first. So for members of the Jedi Council, the priorities would be the survival of both the Council and the Republic it protects. And that means that things that don't mesh well with the Jedi happen, especially when it occurs far from their home base.
GillianSeed79
Member
You act like the Hutts are untouchable or that Jedis won't roll chaotic good if need be. Luke and company blew up Jabba's entire sail barge in ROTJ killing tons of people just to rescue one dude, who is actually a criminal, and that was AFTER Leia strangled that fat slob Jabba like he was a prison snitch or something.
- Status