While being on the PS2 would have been better for sales, I really don't think it's as much as you think. RE3 was already on the decline from RE2 and that was a mainline entry. Of course a remake and a prequel weren't going to light the charts in the same way.
Was Capcom Insane for the Capcom 5?
- Thread starter Kathian
- Start date
While being on the PS2 would have been better for sales, I really don't think it's as much as you think. RE3 was already on the decline from RE2 and that was a mainline entry. Of course a remake and a prequel weren't going to light the charts in the same way.
Ah well, you should have clarified Japan in your statement. I understand why you wouldn't if that's where you reside, but I think the majority of us here don't (as far as to my knowledge) and usually people talk in worldwide terms when talking lifetime sales.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Man, had REmake sold amazingly this could've been the future of RE...
I love RE4 but damn
I love RE4 but damn
There are a ton of factors to the deal we don't know about, considering there's an ancient quote from Mikami saying he'd commit suicide if it came out on another platform.
Yet that 130m population resulted in the same number of sales.
The Wii port sold almost exactly the same number as the GC/PS2 versions (1.5-2 mil), despite a huge system install base.
The Okami port to Wii sold roughly as many as Okami sold on PS2.
Certain indie games perform better on Wii U or 3DS than on other systems.
RE Revelations, a half step back to the more traditional RE style, sold a little over 1 million total on U/360/PS3/PC, while RE5 and 6 sold over 5 million each.
POINT: There is a ceiling to the sales of niche titles, because they appeal to niche audiences.
Which is why Capcom has intentionally steered the series towards more action, more cinematic cutscenes, and more accessibility. It was why they called the RE fanbase old and outdated in an investor's meeting, saying they needed to modernize the design to meet higher sales expectations.
The improved sales of RE5 and RE6 have much less to do with "not being on Nintendo" and much more to do with the changes to the design to appeal to a wider audience, as explicitly stated by the developers of the series.
I don't think the 360 had even been announced yet. Really I think that's more the GameCube dying an early death than anything. That was early in its 4th year on the market.
Well said. I won't dismiss the factor of platform, but people like to look at things too black and white and not realize there's more factors than that.
Man, had REmake sold amazingly this could've been the future of RE...
I love RE4 but damn
The future of RE would've been something that already existed?
frankie_baby
Member
I doubt the genuine user base difference is nowhere near what hardware sales figures suggest, yes anecdotal but every single ps2 owner I've known has gone through several systems due to them breaking
They didn't know Nintendo would barely contend that generation. But yeah, they should've known after the early success of PS2, that it was a bad decision. But who knows, maybe Nintendo paid them well.
In the end, Capcom has run itself into the ground with its poor games and decisions. It's not because they came out with RE4 on Gamecube that the series is done, it's that they came out with shittier sequels with poor stories, clunky controls and gameplay. No one cares about Resident Evil much anymore, Viewtiful Joe sequel didn't sell too well and barely anyone remember the series, Killer 7, P.N. 03 are barely even remembered by the name, and Dead Phoenix was canceled.
In the end, Capcom has run itself into the ground with its poor games and decisions. It's not because they came out with RE4 on Gamecube that the series is done, it's that they came out with shittier sequels with poor stories, clunky controls and gameplay. No one cares about Resident Evil much anymore, Viewtiful Joe sequel didn't sell too well and barely anyone remember the series, Killer 7, P.N. 03 are barely even remembered by the name, and Dead Phoenix was canceled.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
It could have been walking down on the analog stick until the static camera suddenly shifts and you're holding the wrong direction
damn we missing out
Crimsonclaw111
Member
It would've stayed similar in vein to 1-CVX instead of 4 and onward I'd imagine.
LiquidSolid
Member
Well if it had been a moneyhat, Killer7 would have at least been timed exclusive. But it wasn't, it launched on both systems simultaneously.
I'd put on the entire thing being down to Mikami's hatred of Sony at the time. He had a ton of influence within the company at the time, so could have pushed it, and when it failed, he was demoted.
It was exclusive to our imaginations.
Most of this has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The PS2 was a much much more popular platform than the Gamecube. The series suffered a massive decline when they jumped to Gamecube exclusivity. Not a natural decline that most franchises go through. A dangerous decline which I'm guessing is why Capcom made sure RE4 would go to the PS2.
Nobody can say for sure whether or not RE0 and REmake would have done better staying on Playstation. I can say that the PS2 offered a much larger userbase for Capcom to sell the game and this is why they both should have been ported at the very least. This is why RE4 on PS2 outsold the Gamecube version despite being released almost a year later.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Maybe they're watching the HD Remaster sales and deciding if that's what they should do for 7....aside from the fashion magazine stuff.Man, had REmake sold amazingly this could've been the future of RE...
I love RE4 but damn
One can only hope.
It's an impossible thing to say for sure since I'm assuming no has an alternate dimension machine, but when you look at RE2 to RE3, we see approximately a decline of 1.5 million (5 mil to 3.5 mil). Honestly, it be more of a natural decline than you really think when you realize that REMake and Zero had roughly a 2 million decline from that.
But of course, we can't know for sure.
They aren't. I don't want to be a hope killer or anything, but Revelations 2 will release soon, so you're hope didn't have long to live.
JordanN
Banned
It was insane considering this was the same Nintendo who refused to play nice with third parties.
What Capcom should have done was fly one or two executives over to Nintendo's Headquarters and give them a stern wake up call.
"Yo Nintendo, listen up. If you want to survive in today's market, you better start respecting third party developers or we're not going to make any games for your platforms anymore. Got that?"
What Capcom should have done was fly one or two executives over to Nintendo's Headquarters and give them a stern wake up call.
"Yo Nintendo, listen up. If you want to survive in today's market, you better start respecting third party developers or we're not going to make any games for your platforms anymore. Got that?"
Conrad Link
Member
It might seem weird to do now-a-days but you have to remember they weren't Capcom's only outputs, they were still making other games for other consoles too at the time. This just stood out cause it was 5 games at once and them and Nintendo made it (successfully, considering you're still talking about it lol) seem like a big deal.
If they had just announced these games randomly months apart people probably wouldn't think much off it, just more random exclusives like Gotcha Force etc.
They also released tones of games on Dreamcast too, they obviously enjoyed having the spotlight all to themselves as far as game releases go.
If they had just announced these games randomly months apart people probably wouldn't think much off it, just more random exclusives like Gotcha Force etc.
They also released tones of games on Dreamcast too, they obviously enjoyed having the spotlight all to themselves as far as game releases go.
Effigenius
Member
You're referring to RE0? That wasn't part of the Capcom 5, I'm pretty sure.
Dead Phoenix
PN03
Viewtiful Joe
Resident Evil 4
???? I'm drawing a blank.
EDIT: Killer 7??? Really? I didn't remember it was part of the deal.
LegendofJoe
Member
The only thing bad about the Camcom exclusivity deal is that it ensured that Viewtiful Joe never got the marketing treatment it should have. It was one of the top 15 games of the entire generation and it should have been a MUCH BIGGER deal.
I'd do some terrible things to reunite Mikami and Capcom for a reboot of Viewtiful Joe.
I'd do some terrible things to reunite Mikami and Capcom for a reboot of Viewtiful Joe.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Forgot about that. Welp, hope is dead.
But people knew 360 was coming that year. Rumors were already going, people figured they'd release to get the jump on Sony.
It wasn't a very big factor though, you're right. I'm guessing the PS2 version came out much later that year or 2006, my comment was more about that one and why it didn't sell too much more than the GC one.
Honestly I think the reason it stood out was b/c of RE4. The others were a remake (admittedly a fantastic remake) of a barely six-year old game (at that point), and the others were new untested IP. But the mainline sequel to the last installment in the defining survival-horror franchise of the prev. gen? Yeah that was big news.
This was before Capcom ruined RE's name post-4 (that said, I genuinely think 5 is a damn good - but misunderstood - game).
LegendofJoe
Member
It's Killer 7.
Effigenius
Member
Lol. I love this post. Well done.
airmangataosenai
Member
People that just look at total user base numbers without thinking of purchasing habits amongst the user base are thinking of the industry wrong. Games like Viewtiful Joe made sense being on the Gamecube, and demonstrably didn't have a comparable fan base on the PS2. It's the same as at the beginning of the gen when we had people here arguing that it made sense to keep games cross gen because "160 million is more than 16 million!"
Gamecube users bought quirky games which could recover loses with just a few 100k purchases, RE4 shouldn't of been exclusive but games like VJ and maybe even Killer7 should've been. We have no way of knowing how they would've done in that scenario, but both games did better on Gamecube even with their respective "Betrayals". If anything the instant drop in sales for VJ when te sequel launched miltiplatform (But still higher on Gamecube) proves my point about purchasing habits: Gamecube owners bought the first game as a sort of show of support, I remember game magazines treated it as a sort of "Last stand" for the Gamecube, and it's premiere at over 100k copies opening month was impressive as hell when you consider the sort of game it was. Capcom thought they had a new brand because they mistook what the audience was saying with their purchases.
Gamecube users bought quirky games which could recover loses with just a few 100k purchases, RE4 shouldn't of been exclusive but games like VJ and maybe even Killer7 should've been. We have no way of knowing how they would've done in that scenario, but both games did better on Gamecube even with their respective "Betrayals". If anything the instant drop in sales for VJ when te sequel launched miltiplatform (But still higher on Gamecube) proves my point about purchasing habits: Gamecube owners bought the first game as a sort of show of support, I remember game magazines treated it as a sort of "Last stand" for the Gamecube, and it's premiere at over 100k copies opening month was impressive as hell when you consider the sort of game it was. Capcom thought they had a new brand because they mistook what the audience was saying with their purchases.
There's certainly something to be said about playing to a userbase's strengths resulting in software sales above its weight, but I think it's quite silly to paint Resident Evil as a niche series. It sold more than 13.4 million units just on PSone with its non-action gameplay. This was one of the industry leaders and a small userbase definitely clips its sales potential when you're dealing with 7 digits.
Was it a natural decline? Code Veronica did 2.8 million units between Dreamcast and PS2. That's more than both RE0 and REmake combined. The PS2 version of CV also outsold both Gamecube games individually.
The Capcom 5 were a much bigger albatross for Nintendo than they were for Capcom.
A joint venture of exclusives, announced as an industry event!
Then Dead Phoenix was cancelled.
Then PN03 was pushed out eight months early with no fanfare and no advertising.
Viewtiful Joe had a demo come out , and surprised everybody with its sales, so it was ported (and promptly run into the ground as a property)
Killer7 and RE4 both had PS2 version announced prior to their GameCube releases, and they also announced exclusive content for the PS2. Completely undermining the GC releases.
Seriously, the GameCube was already limping along, so Capcom decided to give it a crutch for the sole purpose of kicking it out from under them.
The whole thing was a duster click from day one.
PN03 is still one of my favorite GC games.
A joint venture of exclusives, announced as an industry event!
Then Dead Phoenix was cancelled.
Then PN03 was pushed out eight months early with no fanfare and no advertising.
Viewtiful Joe had a demo come out , and surprised everybody with its sales, so it was ported (and promptly run into the ground as a property)
Killer7 and RE4 both had PS2 version announced prior to their GameCube releases, and they also announced exclusive content for the PS2. Completely undermining the GC releases.
Seriously, the GameCube was already limping along, so Capcom decided to give it a crutch for the sole purpose of kicking it out from under them.
The whole thing was a duster click from day one.
PN03 is still one of my favorite GC games.
WickedCobra03
Member
I thought it was awesome and I really wish consoles still had their own identity. Yeah, exclusives sometimes kind of suck, but overall, I think exclusives form the identity of a system and ecosystem for that company.
Although hindsight is 20/20 now, people have to remember that, when the deal was made (i.e., 2001-2), analysts and business-types were generally expecting the GameCube to be a big success, like, a serious competitor to the PS2. General opinion before, and shortly after launch was that Nintendo had learned from their mistakes with the N64. The disruptive effect of the Xbox and the general Westernization of the game industry during the 6th gen weren't obvious in 2001.
So it's easy to lose sight of why Capcom would have seen a Gamecube exclusivity deal as a good business opportunity.
So it's easy to lose sight of why Capcom would have seen a Gamecube exclusivity deal as a good business opportunity.
Can you possibly quote or point me to where this is said in your link? I'm not actually seeing where it's 13.4 on PS1 alone, I find that rather hard to believe. If true, it also means that it was pretty massive drop from RE to RE2 then.
Actually, yes, I think that goes along well with my point, that's a decline of almost a million from RE3.
Astral Dog
Member
The industry has changed, now it will be an enormous risk, even then Capcom is now making exclusive games for Sony and Microsoft, the "Capcom 5" weren't even completed.
So yeah it was a bad decision, but some of these games never stayed exclusive anyways
So yeah it was a bad decision, but some of these games never stayed exclusive anyways
SolidSnakex
Member
I really don't remember there being much thought that the GC had any shot of taking on the PS2. By the end of 2002 the PS2 was already at 51.2m while the GC was at 9.4. So the GC's weak sales in comparison to the PS2 were clear for a long time.
It's nothing like that. Capcom was a third party developer that had full ability to publish and fund their own games. Platinum needs other publishers to help them do that.
evilromero
Member
This thread makes me want to replay all those games. Luckily I still have them all. The GCN really has a pretty good library.
The Sarcastic Dude
Banned
I remember when Shinji Mikami said he would cut his own head off if RE4 came to PS2.
Yeah, it still has the most complete RE library really, when you think about it. RE 1-4, Zero, and Code Veronica. Of course, finding them all now on the Cube would be quite a feat haha.
That was a euphemism for quitting, and he actually did not long afterward iirc.
Edit: yep, formed his own studio in 2006.
I linked to Capcom's platinum page:
1998/1 Resident Evil 2 PS 4,960
1999/9 Resident Evil 3 Nemesis PS 3,500
1996/3 Resident Evil PS 2,750
1998/8 Resident Evil DC Dual Shock PS 1,200
1997/9 Resident Evil Director's Cut PS 1,130
To save myself some time, I just added the first two digits and ignored any following numbers. Those numbers don't count Gun Survivor since it didn't crack 1 million.
That's a dip of 700k for a non-numbered entry. If Code Veronica was named RE4, do you think it wouldn't have sold better?
Capcom are in the dire position they are in today because they don't have good business sense. Lets put our top selling franchise on the least successul system, lets drop our iconic franchises all together, lets get western devs to handle popular franchises that are on their peak salas wise. I have no sympathy for them.
Maybe I am misunderstanding exactly what you're saying there, but all three of those together make roughly 4 million, not 13 million. Well, actually, 4 thousand, but I am assuming the final zero is excluded for some reason?
Unless you mean the series as a whole, not just Resident Evil the first entry?
Good point, but since it starred Chris and Claire, I think most people looked at it as mainline title. It's still a decline as well, so I don't think it's above the point.
JimmyRustler
Member
Speak for yourself. I do fucking care. Without this dumb move RE would not be what it is today.
Eolz
Member
Are you seriously thinking RE would still be a fixed camera survival horror selling millions if the capcom 5 never happened?
You're delusional. Some very good points hace already been made earlier in the thread.
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Makes me glad I made a point to buy them all a few years back. Whenever I figure out where my GCN controllers went I'll have to play through them again.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Capcom in general wasn't very happy with Sony after the PS1 generation. They shopped RE4 around to Microsoft and Nintendo, but some faux pas on Microsoft's part (I don't recall exactly what it was - being late to a meeting with Mikami, I think?) had them running to Nintendo's arms.
And honestly, it's not like the Capcom 5, RE aside, were really much of anything besides nominal support. Most of the games that had significant brand cache went to the PS2, Mikami admitted to hating RE0, the rest had no future as IPs. They wanted to play Big Fish in Small Pond on the Gamecube while they figured out what licenses would be worth carrying over to other systems.
And honestly, it's not like the Capcom 5, RE aside, were really much of anything besides nominal support. Most of the games that had significant brand cache went to the PS2, Mikami admitted to hating RE0, the rest had no future as IPs. They wanted to play Big Fish in Small Pond on the Gamecube while they figured out what licenses would be worth carrying over to other systems.
I meant the entire series on PSone. Those numbers are supposed to be read as 4.9 million, etc. The point I was making was that Resident Evil wasn't a smaller title like Okami or an indie game. It's Capcom's biggest selling property.
It is a mainline entry. It's just that non-numbered sequels tend to have that stigma.
I kind of wish I would've gone out of my way to get them all myself really.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
This might be outdated but last I checked Wii is currently the most sold version of okami, I think it was at 200,000 something or so, but this was a while ago, the next would be the PS3 version and then the PS2 version.
Stallion Dan
Member
Horrible examples. CVX was a late port of a game that was already a re-release (making it the third CV release) and Outbreak was a spin-off, generally crappy and in EU didn't even have online support, the games main feature. RE4 was a late port and released same year as 360, though the fact it outsold the GC still speaks volumes on why the GC exclusive games were a crappy decision..