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[Akahige]

I really want a Superman cameo in Arkham Knight which leads to Supes getting his own Rocksteady series.

Yes, I also want this.

 

[Superman0]

He really is a shitty ass super hero.

Yeah the first comic superhero that help spawn generation of comic super heroes is so shitty. Try reading Kingdom Come, Red Son, All Star, What wrong with Truth & Justice, Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. Then get back to me about Superman being shitty.

P.S: Superman also help diminish the KKK. That is the definition of awesome.

http://badassdigest.com/2014/10/30/how-superman-defeated-the-ku-klux-klan/

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeah the first comic superhero that help spawn generation of comic super heroes is so shitty. Try reading Kingdom Come, Red Son, All Star, What wrong with Truth & Justice, Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. Then get back to me about Superman being shitty.

Never try to alter the misinformed Superman opinions. It's like they revel in ignorance.

It's equivalent to "PS4 haz no geames"

 

[Compbros]

Well, an entire comics company bread and buttered themselves on relatable characters like a bullied high school student and people facing discrimination by society, and they seem to be doing pretty well today.

Really? Because I believe some of their most popular characters include an immortal (until recently) killing machine with unbreakable metal grafted onto his bones and ridiculous healing, an unkillable mercenary that breaks the fourth wall and an unkillable monster that can level a planet. Also, know what that bullied high-school kid is now? A highly paid scientist at a think-tank that he uses to help fund and build his various Superhero shenanigans. Know what some of those people facing discrimination by society are? Paid government agents, respected members of public organizations, and various other things that have chanced a lot of their public perception. Things change for these characters, they've continued to be popular thanks to mainstream media, good stories, and because, most of the time, they're good characters.


Superman isn't meant to be overly relatable, you're supposed to aspire to be like him.

At the same time people CAN relate to Supes because he's a lost guy just trying to find his way/place in the World and understands that one man can't do everything but he's still gonna do his best even when odds are stacked against him.

There's different types of characters in every media and this argument goes out the window if you like Batman because, besides him being "just a guy", he's COMPLETELY unrelatable. You can't use "unrelatability" as a negative for Supes then ignore it for other heroes like Batman.



Edit:

Never try to alter the misinformed Superman opinions. It's like they revel in ignorance.

I disagree, I think it's best to at least TRY to inform them though I understand that for a lot it's a lost cause.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Because if he was less perfect and had some flaws, maybe he'd be an interesting character.

What does this have to do with him being smart?

 

[Compbros]

What does this have to do with him being smart?

I assume that if people think Superman is some dumb guy that he's not "perfect".

 

[Slamtastic]

I assume that if people think Superman is some dumb guy that he's not "perfect".

It's also more interesting for different characters to have different specialties, especially when they exist in the same universe.

Batman knows martial arts, Wonder Woman has military tactics, Superman fights like a farmer from the midwest, but hits harder than anyone else.

Also, know what that bullied high-school kid is now? A highly paid scientist at a think-tank that he uses to help fund and build his various Superhero shenanigans. Know what some of those people facing discrimination by society are? Paid government agents, respected members of public organizations, and various other things that have chanced a lot of their public perception. Things change for these characters, they've continued to be popular thanks to mainstream media, good stories, and because, most of the time, they're good characters.

The mainstream media, seen by more people than the comics where the characters have evolved, tend to air towards the initial status of the characters, and that's what most people know and like.

 

[krypt0nian]

It's also more interesting for different characters to have different specialties, especially when they exist in the same universe.

Batman knows martial arts, Wonder Woman has military tactics, Superman fights like a farmer from the midwest, but hits harder than anyone else.

Since when does he fight like a farmer? What are you even talking about?

He's studied martial arts from various planets. He grew up with Karate Kid from the Legion of Super-heroes as a sparring partner. Krypton itself had its own martial arts forms.

I give up.

 

[Compbros]

It's also more interesting for different characters to have different specialties, especially when they exist in the same universe.

Batman knows martial arts, Wonder Woman has military tactics, Superman fights like a farmer from the midwest, but hits harder than anyone else.

Disagreed, Batman has as much "military tactics" as WoWo and Kara/WoWo/Aquaman/MMH/etc are close to Clark in strength. How the characters use their abilities and how they act with and without the mantle is what makes them interesting, not because "x" character does "y" thing better than "z" character.

 

[DrBo42]

^ Yeah I think there's some lore that has Batman teaching him some fighting techniques or specifically pressure points.

 

[Compbros]

The mainstream media, seen by more people than the comics where the characters have evolved, tend to air towards the initial status of the characters, and that's what most people know and like.

Which tends to not capture what the character is about. It's hard to get the nuisances of a character in a two hour film when they have 75+ years of development. Regardless, the mainstream media is where people form these opinion and arguments but the problem comes when they're called out on how they're mistaken or misinformed they ignore it, vehemently deny it, or just change the argument because they have no counter point and just continue with this "they suck" mentality.

 

[Slamtastic]

Since when does he fight like a farmer? What are you even talking about?

He's studied martial arts from various planets. He grew up with Karate Kid from the Legion of Super-heroes as a sparring partner. Krypton itself had its own martial arts forms.

I give up.

Many of these comic elements are flat out dumb to non readers. Other media adaptations tend to avoid them.

I like say, MoS Superman who is a guy who is strong, can fly, and can shoot beams, but hasn't been weighed down writing wise by pulling planets on a chain, super hypnosis, kryptonian martial arts, etc.

 

[krypt0nian]

Many of these comic elements are flat out dumb to non readers. Other media adaptations tend to avoid them.

I like say, MoS Superman who is a guy who is strong, can fly, and can shoot beams, but hasn't been weighted down by pulling planets on a chain, super hypnosis, kryptonian martial arts, etc.

Hahahahaha whatever.

 

[Compbros]

Many of these comic elements are flat out dumb to non readers. Other media adaptations tend to avoid them.

I like say, MoS Superman who is a guy who is strong, can fly, and can shoot beams, but hasn't been weighed down writing wise by pulling planets on a chain, super hypnosis, kryptonian martial arts, etc.

He hasn't moved planets since, like, the 80s and he's never had super hypnosis except that dumb movie plot as far as I know.


So you dislike that he just punches what's in front of him but don't want him to be smart about his fighting? Or am I mistaken?

 

[Slamtastic]

He hasn't moved planets since, like, the 80s and he's never had super hypnosis except that dumb movie plot as far as I know.

I though super hypnosis was the attempted explanation of the Clark Kent glasses thing?

So you dislike that he just punches what's in front of him but don't want him to be smart about his fighting? Or am I mistaken?

I'm okay with Superman being mentally and personality wise just an average guy from Kansas who tries to overpower his obstacles and can be outsmarted by Lex and others.

 

[Jobbs]

How many times am I gonna have to quote these weaknesses?

I dunno, I mean, I guess the canon is fuzzy on this then. Because I've seen him fly around the earth so fast it reversed time. He has flown through stars and survived nuclear blasts. How do you make good gameplay around someone so immensely powerful?

 

[Compbros]

I though super hypnosis was the attempted explanation of the Clark Kent glasses thing?

I'm okay with Superman being mentally and personality wise just an average guy from Kansas who tries to overpower his obstacles and can be outsmarted by Lex and others.

Again, like the 60s/70s nonsense, things have changed since the days of bench pressing planets. Comics were campy and pretty dumb in those days, why still hold on to that as your image of Supes but not for other heroes?


Lex is said to be one of the greatest minds in the Universe and is smarter than Bruce (by Bruce's own admission), of course Supes will be outsmarted by him. He also gets outsmarted by Brainiac and has been outsmarted by people like Darkseid and Mongul. So why do you dislike Superman again?

Edit:

I dunno, I mean, I guess the canon is fuzzy on this then. Because I've seen him fly around the earth so fast it reversed time. He has flown through stars and survived nuclear blasts. How do you make good gameplay around someone so immensely powerful?

The movies are not canon, in canon he has never done this because it's duuuummmmbbb. He has decades and decades of canonical material and you're drawing his powers, weaknesses, and character from a handful of movies that mean nothing in the mainline series.

 

[Slamtastic]

So why do you dislike Superman again?

I don't.

I'm perfectly neutral towards the idea of Superman I have in my head as a Kansas farm grown average guy goody two shoes with super strength, high durability, flight, and beams who is a sort of "all arounder" of superheroes. One who winces a little bit and gets out of the way from the helicopter gunfire in MoS. One who is balanced in their strengths with a weakness (kryptonite).

He has historical value and his "nice guy, naive optimism, trying his best" personality can be refreshing compared to say Batman's character.

It's all the detailed elements of comics that adapted media haven't put into collective consciousness that seem like just piling on elements to make him better and better in every category to the point where you can't even entertain the possibility of failure, and the existence of all the characters who can overpower him physically being progressive power escalation to stupid planet destroying levels.

 

[Compbros]

I don't.

Weird, your posts lead me to believe otherwise. Your first post on this matter was this:

Because if he was less perfect and had some flaws, maybe he'd be an interesting character.

And then all the posts after have been you attempting to counter the points of why your initial post was mistaken. It's not hard to draw the conclusion that you do dislike the character because I've hardly seen anything that can be seen as neutral besides your last post or two.

It's all the detailed elements of comics that adapted media haven't put into collective consciousness that seem like just piling on elements to make him better and better in every category to the point where you can't even entertain the possibility of failure, and the existence of all the characters who can overpower him physically being progressive power escalation to stupid planet destroying levels.

Such as? And please give me an example in the past 15 years or so.

 

[Septimus Prime]

How about just include Superman as a bonus mode after you finish the game? Done? Okay, here's god mode: you're Superman.

 

[Slamtastic]

Weird, your posts lead me to believe otherwise. Your first post on this matter was this:

And then all the posts after have been you attempting to counter the points of why your initial post was mistaken. It's not hard to draw the conclusion that you do dislike the character because I've hardly seen anything that can be seen as neutral besides your last post or two.

All I'm saying is Superman is more interesting when he's less perfect and presented with a challenge. When there's an area he's not "super" in and his interactions with a specialist in that area as an enemy to overcome or as a teammate to combine individual strengths with and overcome a greater obstacle they couldn't handle alone.

How the characters use their abilities and how they act with and without the mantle is what makes them interesting, not because "x" character does "y" thing better than "z" character.

Combing individual strengths together to cover individual deficiencies and overcome a greater threat than could be defeated alone is the basis of teamwork.

Hulk is strong but dumb
Tony is a savant with gadgets but cocky
Cap has battle strategy but is only a (peak) human
Thor has magic abilities but also just smashes stuff in front of him (with a hammer instead of fists)
Hawkeye and Widow...shouldn't be there.

It's a popular formula.

 

[Compbros]

All I'm saying is Superman is more interesting when he's less perfect and presented with a challenge. When there's an area he's not "super" in and his interactions with a specialist in that area as an enemy to overcome or as a teammate to combine individual strengths with and overcome a greater obstacle they couldn't handle alone.


Combing individual strengths together to cover individual deficiencies and overcome a greater threat than could be defeated alone is the basis of teamwork.

So, you like Superman then because he hasn't been "perfect" since the 80s. The character you're describing as the Superman you like is the Superman we've gotten for, like, 2+ decades. So why even bring up this "perfect" argument when that hasn't been the character in so long? It's like bringing up the days of "Rainbow Batman" or Superfriends Aquaman, it's not the character anymore.


Not talking about team stuff so I'm not gonna address your Avengers analogy other than to say this: it seems all your opinions on heroes comes from movies. You keep bringing up Man of Steel and you bring up the Avengers team that is only in the movies which leads me to think that most of your Superman knowledge comes from the Christopher Reeves movies.

Edit: I just fully read your Avengers point....what? That wasn't your argument at all, your argument was "it's more interesting when characters have specialties" and I disagreed with that assessment because many specialties are shared between heroes but now your bringing up personalities and such.

 

[Slamtastic]

Edit: I just fully read your Avengers point....what? That wasn't your argument at all, your argument was "it's more interesting when characters have specialties" and I disagreed with that assessment because many specialties are shared between heroes but now your bringing up personalities and such.

Personalities factor in. Being overconfident can play a role in a plot the same as being more or less intelligent.

As for perfect Superman, this is looping back around to the beginning of the argument where someone said "to make Superman vulnerable in a game you can just use kryptonite" and Superman fans refuted that, which made it sound like comics Superman was overpowered, and later continued with "he's also a skilled martial artist with super intellect and a kryptonian robot army".

But if you say that in modern comics he's still able to face challenges and have times where he might not succeed, even with all of that, I'll take your word for it.

 

[Compbros]

Personalities factor in. Being overconfident can play a role in a plot the same as being more or less intelligent.

As for perfect Superman, this is looping back around to the beginning of the argument where someone said "to make Superman vulnerable in a game you can just use kryptonite" and Superman fans refuted that, which made it sound like comics Superman was overpowered, and later continued with "he's also a skilled martial artist with super intellect and a kryptonian robot army".

But if you say that in modern comics he's still able to face challenges and have times where he might not succeed, even with all of that, I'll take your word for it.

Personality isn't a specialty though, which is where the initial point comes from. You're simply adding more things to your point that had nothing to do with what you originally said.

Superman has overcome kryptonite before and he's also succumb to it, it's not a slam dunk but there's half a dozen things that can hurt the guy. He has been skilled, other times he's been a punching machine. He's been super smart, other times you see him going through the steps to become smart by reading books and such. He has had a Superman Robot Army (that killed Donna Troy) and has done away with them before. Superman has been many a thing, to believe he's spent the vast majority of the past 25 years as all these things is incorrect thinking.

Since New 52 he's been relugated to pre-Superman days where he was learning his powers and how to fly, he didn't even have his costume. Before then he was still getting his ass handed to him because no matter how good Supes gets his villains and threats also grow. Spider-man has gotten better and smarter since his high school days but Ock was still kicking his ass up until his death.


Of course there's the chance Supes won't succeed otherwise it'd be BORING, who wants to read about a guy you know is gonna win? Each arc has its own hardships whether personally, professionally, or Superhero wise, of course he has hardships. Also, the fact that you're going to me for Modern Day Superman tells me you probably haven't read Superman in a loooong time if ever.


With that, I'm done debating with you. I tried but I'm just not getting your points and I'm tired of trying.

 

[Totobeni]

Seems like an ester egg just like the other Arkham games.

tbqh Supes deserve to have his own game or be in a full on AAA JL game, The only character I need in Arkham Knight is the Blackbat (Cassandra Cain). her body reading fighting style+free flow combat system will be heaven.

 

[Superman0]

Seems like an ester egg just like the other Arkham games.

tbqh Supes deserve to have his own game or be in a full on AAA JL game, The only character I need in Arkham Knight is the Blackbat (Cassandra Cain). her body reading fighting style+free flow combat system will be heaven.

If there is one person I can trust to make a good Superman game, that person would be Kamiya.

 

[PirateKing]

Arrow's big at the moment. Why not Green Arrow for their next game?

 

[GnawtyDog]

Hopefully. Set up his game

 

[Mononoke]

Somewhere Greg Miller is nodding and doing this...

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3rgXBOmTlzyFCURutG/giphy.gif[/IMG]

EDIT: For those that don't know, he's been saying for a year, that the game will set up the Superman stuff, and that Superman will make his appearance at the end of the game. He's been pushing that theory for a while now (he also thinks Super Woman will make an appearance).

 

[Totobeni]

If there is one person I can trust to make a good Superman game, that person would be Kamiya.

His latest superheroes game "W101" was bad, I will not trust him with Superman.

Arrow's big at the moment. Why not Green Arrow for their next game?

While the show is good, Arrow is a very limited character for a video game, he is also less interesting than DC tier-1 (top JL guys) and tier-2 (Titans/Young Justice guys) and honestly a game with him will just be like Arkham-lite without all the cool gadgets.

 

[Vice]

I though super hypnosis was the attempted explanation of the Clark Kent glasses thing?

I'm okay with Superman being mentally and personality wise just an average guy from Kansas who tries to overpower his obstacles and can be outsmarted by Lex and others.

That set of panels is from the late 50s-70s era when writers, admittedly, pulled whatever story they could out of their ass. Did the same thing for Batman, Wonder Woman and the people at Marvel too. Most of it gets ignored for a reason.

Superman has always been pretty smart. He's been good-great at being an investigative journalist since day 1.

Personalities factor in. Being overconfident can play a role in a plot the same as being more or less intelligent.

As for perfect Superman, this is looping back around to the beginning of the argument where someone said "to make Superman vulnerable in a game you can just use kryptonite" and Superman fans refuted that, which made it sound like comics Superman was overpowered, and later continued with "he's also a skilled martial artist with super intellect and a kryptonian robot army".

But if you say that in modern comics he's still able to face challenges and have times where he might not succeed, even with all of that, I'll take your word for it.

Essentially, he always gets bigger threats. The same way Batman does. Superman gets a new alien, unwinnable scenario or piece of technology to fight. Batman gets an even better martial artist, even more impossible to solve murder or sidekick turned villain to fight. He is as perfect as any other comic book hero and has just as many struggles as a Peter Parker or Bruce Wayne -- just on a different scale.

 

[Superman0]

His latest superheroes game "W101" was bad, I will not trust him with Superman.



While the show is good, Arrow is a very limited character for a video game, he is also less interesting than DC tier-1 (top JL guys) and tier-2 (Titans/Young Justice guys) and honestly a game with him will just be like Arkham-lite without all the cool gadgets.

Opinions, we all have them. No matter how terrible it is ;p.

 

[Htown]

How would a Superman game even work?

You're fucking Superman, nothing can kill you.

It's like you're using cheats.

You can kill Superman just by hitting him really hard.

No, like... REALLY hard.

No, harder than that.

 

[Mononoke]

How would a Superman game even work?

You're fucking Superman, nothing can kill you.

It's like you're using cheats.

Suspension of disbelief I imagine. He would get killed by taking too many hits, just like any game that has like, ever been made.

It might not line up with how Superman really is (in terms of the world/mythology). But I think people would give it lee way, since it's a game. And video games need certain elements that aren't compatible with an OP character.

 

[K-A-Deman]

I meant just take out all the super villains. The general corruption don't need a man in a costume to fix it. Truth is Batman could never fix that shit the way he operates. But is Superman existed, he would fly in and take out the Joker day one. Probably take out Batman too. Oh wait, he tried, but lost, because reasons.

Fun fact; Superman has never straight-up lost a confrontation with Batman in the mainline canon of the DC lore. Oh and point of order; Superman accepts his friend's terms and boundaries to help save his(Bruce's) home turf. All the crap people give Superman about how he 'lets' people die just shows how little people know or care about Superman's mindset. It's not his job to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner people; if anything, he's the Bailiff keeping the courtroom in order.

That brings up another issue. I can suspend disbelief in comics a lot, but Superman pushes it too far. He's so overpowered they have to restrict him in really artificial ways to keep him relevant. That just makes for a terrible character, the opposite of Batman, who is a great character because he actually has interesting and logical limitations. He faces real challenges. Superman doesn't. Batman and Superman do not mix at all, they are polar opposite characters that exist in polar opposite worlds.

Superman is the argument of restrained potential, whereas Batman (or if you want to take this across the pond, Goku/InserUbermenschHere) are surpassed potential. The World of Cardboard speech from JLU is a fantastic summation of just what Superman entails. It's not restraints placed on him arbitrarily (well, sometimes), it's restraints he puts on himself; limiters and blocks to keep himself from breaking...everything really.

Oh and question; you find it easier to suspend your disbelief for a blue blood with parental issues that has no responsibilities and has enough Freudian excuses to rationalize dressing up to beat up criminals and mentally unbalanced individuals whilst being pursued by fetish-clad femme fatales...over a investigative journalist that was raised in the Midwest, has a career, and occasionally puts in for some unorthodox volunteer work?

lol, exactly. Kryptonite is exactly why Superman is a shit character. He's only weaknesses a contrived plot device.

You've already been disproven, so I'll let this go.

It wouldn't be control, it'd just be a hallucination and this was covered in Injustice: Gods Among Us comic. It's an alright plot but Supes got over the toxin fairly quickly so, unless it's constantly pumping into him, it's not gonna hold for long.

Withholding my issues with Injustice, this really is the truth. Superman gets detoxed pretty quickly, at least from most earth-based chemicals.

Edit: Superman has built so much Kryptonian technology and learned so much about the biology of himself/people from archives on top of learning this Kryptonian language, why do people think he's just some muscle-brained dude punching what's in front of him?

Maybe it's a subconscious fear? Having muscles is one thing, having the brain power to do more than just hit things makes the threat more than just hired goon #5. Anyway, I think it's hilarious how many people seem to embrace Lex Luthor's mindset (He was pretty much handed Clark's identity with evidence and solid ground, but he outright refused to accept it) when it comes to Superman.

Because if he was less perfect and had some flaws, maybe he'd be an interesting character.

READ. THE. COMICS.

Again, read more comics. He's never portrayed as perfect or invincible. This is your built in bias speaking, not proved out by canon. You just sound uninformed to someone who knows better.


The good news is reading comics is awesome so there's still hope.

I'm dreading what the upcoming movies are going to do to these preceptions...

He sounds perfect and invincible when all of his fans keep reminding you that he's more resistant to kryptonite than you think, smarter than you think, knows more fighting techniques than you think, etc.

Probably because the arguments are always "He has one weakness! He's just dumb muscle! He only punches things!" So blame your bullet points for our answers...

Yeah. I loved the Morrison run where he wasn't even flying yet.

Reading some of this thread, it's evident a lot of haters haven't read a single Superman comic.

People arguing over things they have no knowledge in?

Spoiler

I can't bring myself to finish with a witty comment..

Hear hear, Supes is awesome.

I must have imagined my 35 TPBs in my room. And my Snyder's Batman hardcover collection.

Superman was stupid enough to cross the border of an antiAmerican country with WW, making a show out of it, iniciating an international conflict and leaving the league in a terrible light. And he didn't realize what he did until Batman explained it to him.

all that in just Justice League #19.

I'm not making hyperboles with his intelligence

You mean how they crossed over in civilian attire to investigate (y'know, Clark's job), were incited into action by Wonder Woman, and was again exacerbated by Wonder Woman's attitude of control over inspire?

Never try to alter the misinformed Superman opinions. It's like they revel in ignorance.

It's equivalent to "PS4 haz no geames"

I'd say it's more inclined to the arguments with Aquaman, but yeah pretty apt.

Really? Because I believe some of their most popular characters include an immortal (until recently) killing machine with unbreakable metal grafted onto his bones and ridiculous healing, an unkillable mercenary that breaks the fourth wall and an unkillable monster that can level a planet. Also, know what that bullied high-school kid is now? A highly paid scientist at a think-tank that he uses to help fund and build his various Superhero shenanigans. Know what some of those people facing discrimination by society are? Paid government agents, respected members of public organizations, and various other things that have chanced a lot of their public perception. Things change for these characters, they've continued to be popular thanks to mainstream media, good stories, and because, most of the time, they're good characters.


Superman isn't meant to be overly relatable, you're supposed to aspire to be like him.



At the same time people CAN relate to Supes because he's a lost guy just trying to find his way/place in the World and understands that one man can't do everything but he's still gonna do his best even when odds are stacked against him.

There's different types of characters in every media and this argument goes out the window if you like Batman because, besides him being "just a guy", he's COMPLETELY unrelatable. You can't use "unrelatability" as a negative for Supes then ignore it for other heroes like Batman.



Edit:


I disagree, I think it's best to at least TRY to inform them though I understand that for a lot it's a lost cause.

Underlined is pretty much the perception I've had since I first read a Superman comic. and you're spot on with the unrelatable bias people like to exhibit.

Since when does he fight like a farmer? What are you even talking about?

He's studied martial arts from various planets. He grew up with Karate Kid from the Legion of Super-heroes as a sparring partner. Krypton itself had its own martial arts forms.

I give up.

At least you tried, that's really all we can do here.

It's also more interesting for different characters to have different specialties, especially when they exist in the same universe.

Batman knows martial arts, Wonder Woman has military tactics, Superman fights like a farmer from the midwest, but hits harder than anyone else.


The mainstream media, seen by more people than the comics where the characters have evolved, tend to air towards the initial status of the characters, and that's what most people know and like.

Funny, the mainstream media also kept us in the silver age (y'know, campy Batman and Joker) until the Killing Joke and TDKR, or how people thought that the DCAU was being racist by recasting GL as black (or again by making him white in the unfortuantely-never released live action movie.), or how the mainstream INSISTS Aquaman is a useless character since the seventies, where EVERYONE was a useless character.

Which tends to not capture what the character is about. It's hard to get the nuisances of a character in a two hour film when they have 75+ years of development. Regardless, the mainstream media is where people form these opinion and arguments but the problem comes when they're called out on how they're mistaken or misinformed they ignore it, vehemently deny it, or just change the argument because they have no counter point and just continue with this "they suck" mentality.

I can't really blame them for not absorbing the entire 75+ years of history, since it gets changed around quite often. You don't really need to know about how Superman or Batman killed people in their early comics, nor do you need to know how many gimmick Batsuits or ridiculous powers the Silver Age had. But if a piece of entertainment fails to telegraph the main point of an icon, then that's on the piece itself.

I though super hypnosis was the attempted explanation of the Clark Kent glasses thing?

I'm okay with Superman being mentally and personality wise just an average guy from Kansas who tries to overpower his obstacles and can be outsmarted by Lex and others.

A combination of posture, unkempt hair, loose clothing, and thick glasses that downplay his eyes is usually the 'disguise'.

Again, like the 60s/70s nonsense, things have changed since the days of bench pressing planets. Comics were campy and pretty dumb in those days, why still hold on to that as your image of Supes but not for other heroes?


Lex is said to be one of the greatest minds in the Universe and is smarter than Bruce (by Bruce's own admission), of course Supes will be outsmarted by him. He also gets outsmarted by Brainiac and has been outsmarted by people like Darkseid and Mongul. So why do you dislike Superman again?

Edit:

The movies are not canon, in canon he has never done this because it's duuuummmmbbb. He has decades and decades of canonical material and you're drawing his powers, weaknesses, and character from a handful of movies that mean nothing in the mainline series.

But it's okay, because that's the mainstream perception of Superman.

Spoiler

¬_¬

All I'm saying is Superman is more interesting when he's less perfect and presented with a challenge. When there's an area he's not "super" in and his interactions with a specialist in that area as an enemy to overcome or as a teammate to combine individual strengths with and overcome a greater obstacle they couldn't handle alone.


Combing individual strengths together to cover individual deficiencies and overcome a greater threat than could be defeated alone is the basis of teamwork.

Hulk is strong but dumb
Tony is a savant with gadgets but cocky
Cap has battle strategy but is only a (peak) human
Thor has magic abilities but also just smashes stuff in front of him (with a hammer instead of fists)
Hawkeye and Widow...shouldn't be there.

It's a popular formula.

And it's one that's been used again in again and shown even more times than can be listed.

His latest superheroes game "W101" was bad, I will not trust him with Superman.

...

...

...I need a drink now.