HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The point you missed is that anyone can be a threat whether you view them as one or not.
Anita Sarkeesian has disclosed what she has done with the Kickstarter money
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The point you missed is that anyone can be a threat whether you view them as one or not.
Also that its easy to say things when you have never experienced them.
Trickster
Member
I litterally say I understand that in the very post you quoted?
that's probably because most youtubers aren't hounded by harassment mobs determined to make their lives as miserable as possible and don't receive death threats from people who know where they live and send bomb treats to public venues where they show up.
there wouldn't be a lot of youtubers if it was easy for you to find examples.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
No, you said you knew people had the potential to do bad stuff. Followed by that you didn't think those "types" were harmful so you wouldn't give them the time of day.
Yeah, violence doesn't work like that. You can't just say "these people are not serious", and that makes it okay or means they are not dangerous.
So, if you're not condemning her for taking threats seriously, then what are you doing?
A celebrity is somebody who is known by the public. Anita was a celebrity before her kickstarter. She rised even higher now with the kickstarter. So she did choose to be a celebrity the same way Justin Bieber did.
Also, I do not say that celebrities do not care about death threats, and dont investigate them, but that they always had them. 50 years ago people still threatened to kill celebrities the same way people do now. And people still care the same way. So acting like it's a new phenomenon is not true. It's simply that the number of public figure sky rocketed with the fact that anybody, anywhere can now be a celebrity and so now more and more people are experiencing what celebrities always had. Stalking and death threats.
And from what I know, Anita did contact the cops, and they found no hard or even soft evidence that the threat was real or funded. Other youtubers have the same resource as she does or even less and get the same threats as she does, so I do not see why it's an issue that seem to be focused on her and some other people around her.
Again, Death threats sucks and should never be done by anybody. I certainly never do them. But being scared of moving around because of threats that were found to be false or non funded is non sense. If that was the case, everybody would hide in a house all the time and be too scared to leave because somebody, somewhere might kill them. The world is a scary place, it's not a reason to not live.
Dodger for example have a list of people she want banned from conventions she goes to because they are known stalkers who actually did stalking or made threats that were founded. And I totally respect that.
Hell, I would even say that I respect Anita. If she do not want to go, she do not have to go. But I wont defend her for not going and would call her gutless for not going. Does not mean I hate her in any way shape or form. I just find that a public speaker should be able to handle those things. When you speak about something, people might want to shut you up. That's life sadly.
charlequin
Banned
Also ignoring that one of the common tactics by these mobs is identifying and targeting family members. Lots of people can put on a face and act stoic in the face of abuse targeted towards themselves, but that's impossible for anyone once family gets involved.
Are you serious?
Thanks for the clarification on that subject. I'm canadian, so that kind of gun law logic kinda goes over my head most of the time. I understand what it's like to be around guns all the time (I work in a inuit village where all the hunters have guns), but I never fear about them really, mostly because I never see them.
Trickster
Member
Do you walk around in sheer terror all day every day because any of the people you encounter might potentially try and attack you?
If not, why are you even continuing that dumb argument?
That's my understanding of the word celebrity yes. Somebody who became famous. A sport athlete, singer, writer, politician, public speaker, religious leader
From Wiki
"Celebrity is fame and public attention in the media, usually applied to a person, or group of people (celebrity couple, family etc.), or occasionally, to animals or fictional entities.."
So yeah, I would consider Anita to be a celebrity and she did choose to be one when she started doing public speaking and youtube videos. The same way Pewdiepie, or That Guy with the Glasses or The Amazing Atheist are and choosed to be and stay celebrities. I do not see why you would not consider Anita to be a celebrity or any other youtube with a fanbase for that matter.
More_Badass
Member
You really consider those people famous? They might be known among gaming communities but I would never call them famous
You just told a victim of harassment how to behave. If I wouldn't remember you from the last 2 Gamergate threads, I might have been surprised.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
.... because none of them are sending me death threats on a daily basis?
I guess that depend on what you mean by famous. For example, for a small town, the quarterback might be famous but to me he mean nothing. Fame is a leveled thing. If you go to a worldwide scale, then Anita, Pewdiepie, That Guy with the glasses and the Amazing atheist are certainly B or C level celebrities yes. Pewdiepie is more known than a lot of traditional mainstream actors and TV personality. There was a test, and most of the 25 and less demographic didnt know who George Clooney was, but knew who Pewdiepie was.
charlequin
Banned
Putting aside the matter of degree (you seem extremely unwilling to acknowledge that things of different scope are indeed different so far in this exchange), in what way was she a celebrity before this? She had a minor, little-watched Youtube channel. That's like saying I'm a celebrity now because I've written all these posts on NeoGAF. At a certain level someone just has to actually be a known name in a wide group of people to be a "celebrity."
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I can't believe these guys are getting 8k a month.
Every individual giving money to these racist, fascists, mysoginists fucks are idiots.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Anyhow.
I think the thread has run its course.
Have fun picking at each other. Night, GAF.
I think the thread has run its course.
Have fun picking at each other. Night, GAF.
Well you are a celebrity on Neogaf. And I knew of Anita before the whole Kickstarter, mostly because I watch shows that talk of Feminism and sex and all that. Did she rised to several degrees of "fame" pretty fast due to the Feminism donating to the kickstarter she made? I would say yes.
And I do not understand where I'm unwilling to aknowledge that things of different scopes are different. Is a multi millionaire celebrity different from a Youtube celebrity? Yes. But both get death threats. Does Anita get more than a major celebrity? I dont know. We dont really have a survey from the PR of every celebrities listing the number of death threats they get compared to online celebrities. But yeah, Anita and most Youtubers do not have the same resources as millionaires.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
There were plans to Swat DSP once he moved to Washington. The cult of hate for that dude matches pretty much any harassment campaign you can think of TBH.
The Kojima World Order is a special kind of group. I dont hate DSP and I certainly dont watch his stuff, but man. They have dedication on hating a guy playing video games.
Trickster
Member
Which is basically my argument that you seemed to disagree with. Some people pose bigger threats than others.
Although, I'd be willing to bet that you're far, far more likely to be assaulted or killed without warning by a stranger, than by someone who threatens you over the internet. Very rarely do I think a drunk driver or a robber will hit you up on twitter with a threat beforehand
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Also I'm pretty sure that wasn't the reason why she raised to fame, she was getting harassed, even when she was a small no-named channel in the Internet.
We might don't know how much death threats gets Anita compared to celebrities, but is also true that most celebrities dosn't have to leaves their houses out of fear and don't get bomb threats when they attend public events...
charlequin
Banned
So, essentially, you're saying that by taking on the responsibility of moderating an internet forum about videogames, for free, receiving no reward except the satisfaction of a job well done and the continued existence of the community, I should expect -- and cannot rightfully complain about -- an endless torrent of violent and sexual threats against myself, my family, my friends, and my employer?
hotnheavyload
Banned
It says in the link that she's now advising tech and games companies about solutions to online harassment, yet presents no proposals as to how to challenge or change what she claims are problems within the video game industry.
She can get paid to advise those companies but can't offer a dialogue when she's getting paid to produce a series which just ended up instilling a gendered version of 'white guilt' in a lot of people. The self-confessed non-fan of video games is quite happy to dish out critique and yet offers no suggestion or strategy on how to tackle it.
That this money is going towards Jonathan McIntosh makes me dislike Feminist Frequency altogether.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is cool you have that practical coolheaded point of view. But not all people have to react to danger/fear the same way.
And I feel you're missing the biggest point here, which is that the constant prosecution of the harassment she is suffering. Even if the real danger is low, the fear and the continous preassure of a group of people which only objective is ruining your life is still there.
At some point is not something you just can shrug off, specially when you and your family can barely do their normal daily routines.
Pretty sure most celebrities do get threats like this, they simply have security teams that confirm or not the threat.
Look at Laci Green for instance, the LGBT community started to send her pictures of her appartement because she said the word tranny 6 years go. She had to hide because somebody sent her a picture of her house. That's credible evidence of a threat when somebody stand in front of your house and menace you. Pretty sure other people get this.
How did she reach the point that you can't tolerate her?
What makes those other female gamers "better"/more deserving of attention?
I do not. I would expect that you did get insults and mean comments from time to time though. You are not a high or controversial celebrity. And it's all about scale. You are not known outside of this forum. Anita is known in multiple spheres, video games, Feminism, activism, kickstarter and ect. And what she touch on is more controversial. So people try to shut her off, yes. It's to be expected by anybody really. Somebody doing the same type of videos but on the opposite side would get the same treatment. Main figures of political movements also get the same treatment. If you challenge people views and ideas, there will be resistances of course.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is a pretty weird feeling when someone tolds you X is a celebrity when you never heard about X in the first place.
Also I'm sure other people get this, I'm not sure is the vast majority. Or something that is just attached to being "famous".
Real talk, you should ask your girlfriend and your mother that question.
The answer may surprise you.
Like who?
Don't like Anita? Cool. Advertise these women that you think are more deserving.
Seriously, it's not like there are a whole ton of famous female gamers. Link their youtubes, I'll give them a watch.
I think you've sniffed entirely too much glue. She's intolerable because she's not a good "gamer"?
I take it that you never watched her videos. But why not watching that "I'm not a fan of videogames" video for the first time? You might be surprised how much out of context that quote is. Or her Kickstarter video which might shock you.
Well I hear about new celebrities all the time. New movie stars, new music stars. For instance, if you want me to name boy bands, I would probably say Backstreet Boy, NSynch and New Kids on the block, but you say that to 15 yo girls and they dont know who I'm talking about. Celebrity is a status, but it's not an universal one. If I dont know who Kesha is, does not mean she's not a celebrity. Perspective is a big thing.
Better female gamers? What, are you ranking them?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
But perspective should go both ways. When a person is known by 1000 people, is way less likely to be harassed that someone is known by 10 million people. Or logic says so, I mean probably some notorious people gets harassed in their small circles, or even not that small circles. But is not the norm, and certainly I don't feel is an inevitable condition attached to being notorious.
Is actually quite insane if you think about it, that people are getting swatted because they support equality in gaming or just because they are females and want a better representation in the industry and they are only midly famous in the gaming circle.
Obviously. There is no denying that Anita is getting more hate than the average youtuber. But I would not say that she is the top or the only one with that kind of hate. DSP and the Amazing Atheist would be two other personalities who get hate thrown at them with buckets.
Rubius don't you get tired of this? Derailing a topic yet again with a discussion about fame and what it entails? Last time Quinn, this time Sarkeesian.
To put it blunt: Could you tell us what your problem is?
excelsiorlef
Member
Actually it's about ethics in celebrity determination.
I came in on page 8 and responded to somebody about laughing at death threats. I did not derail it, at all. It's just how the conversation ended up. And I talked about celebrity in the Quinn thread?
I just come here to argue and discuss. That's just my personality. I like to argue and check all the side of stuff and talk about them. If you find that I derailed this topic about the money Anita made, then I'm pretty sure it was derailed way before I got in here.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Sharp opinions, would not game with.
EmpressInYellow
Banned
It is not inherently a critic's job to suggest solutions. It is a critic's job to analyze and express thoughts on that analysis in a cogent fashion. It is the creator's job to look at that criticism, decide how much of it is valid, and adjust accordingly.
I'm also not sure why people bring up the "not a fan of video games" thing, given that A: the context of that statement is actually a lot more nuanced than the usual snide dismissal implies, and B: even if it's true, it doesn't make her criticisms any less valid.
As for the McIntosh stuff, I find that people tend to be fond of taking statements of his out of context or reading them in the most simplistic, reductive way possible.
It would have been funnier if she'd just released this:
What?
I'm actually with Anita on most issues. I did not, and never defended empty threats. I just said that they are empty and argued with people who said they were not or that we should take empty threats and consider them real ones.
It would have been funnier if she'd just released this:
Where is this gif from? For...research purposes...
OT: Good on Anita. Hope to see more of her videos soon.
Really? I guess that's the problem. You shouldn't feel guilty at all. You should just feel a heightened level of awareness about the presentation of women and how it reflects real life feelings and attitudes. :\
What is it that's creating the feelings of guilt?
Hmm...I wouldn't put myself out there to talk about gender on behalf of the female gamers. I wouldn't touch it with a 100 yard pole. Anita's been eaten alive, and those who speak similarly are treated just the same. Any woman or girl smart enough to do it would probably say f*** it. The community has made it clear that any talk about this subject is taboo.
I'd rather just wish her the best and see if things change. I'd like to see a safer environment, but I'm really not that hopeful.
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