JudgmentJay
Member
But Papers Please and This War of Mine are fun. If they weren't, people wouldn't play them. Or at least fewer people would. I know I wouldn't.
Anita Sarkeesian has disclosed what she has done with the Kickstarter money
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But Papers Please and This War of Mine are fun. If they weren't, people wouldn't play them. Or at least fewer people would. I know I wouldn't.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
That says more about you than anything. Maybe you find them fun, but many do not. Myself included. Maybe I'm just more empathetic but innocent people struggling to survive in the terrible situation of war does not sound like a fun scenario to me. The gameplay is frustrating because my choices are often "be a good person and die" or "do wrong and live". There is no 'fun' choice in that.
JudgmentJay
Member
Sorry, but I think you're in the minority if you play video games that do not provide you any sense of fun or entertainment.
More_Badass
Member
I found Papers Please to be anxious and tense, trying to get the most people I could before the day was up, realizing I made a mistake
And This War of Mine was a bleak grind that I could only play in bursts because it could get pretty distressing.
"Enjoyment, amusement, or light-hearted pleasure." I certainly didn't find that those games envoked those vibes. Well, I enjoyed them sure, but I was engaged because of the atmopsphere and emotional connection and mechanics
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Entertainment != fun. I didn't say the game wasn't entertaining. I said it wasn't fun. These are totally different words.
More_Badass
Member
Entertaining and engaging doesn't equate to a sense of fun. The Road is a great incredibly engaging book, but it certainly wasn't a fun read by any means. 12 Years A Slave wasn't a fun movie.
I'd recommend this visual novel my father's long long legs, which is unsettling and creepy as fuck. Not fun, but certainly entertaining and engaging.
Homunculus
Banned
It's also just a game. Your empathy is strangely misplaced concerning the lives of imaginary people.
As for the concept of "fun", I think that the word may be misconstrued a bit here. While the games have material that most people wouldn't find "fun" in reality, the games are presenting these concepts to you in a way that you are being entertained.
Look at it the same way you would watch dramatic movies like The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo or Gone Girl. They are not "fun" movies to watch, but they are exceptionally entertaining and engaging.
'Fun' is a meaningless descriptor of something and cannot be used effectively in communicating one's enjoyment of something.
Check out the academic articles on 'fun' in video games or campster's YouTube video on it.
Check out the academic articles on 'fun' in video games or campster's YouTube video on it.
More_Badass
Member
What does this even mean? You know, when you get into a book or show or comic, those are also imaginary people. And yet the best books and movies and comics can get you invested in those imaginary people
When people were freaking about the Red Wedding or the Hannibal finale, it's not because "it's just a TV show". People care about and root for those characters
The "it's just a game" retort is so ridiculous.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Because real people don't experience these things? Though I'm privileged enough to have never experienced such terribleness first hand, I have worked with refugees from war torn regions of the world who recounted to me what they went through. A game like This War of Mine attempts to capture those experiences to share with a wider audience and show people the struggle real people go through.
JudgmentJay
Member
Yeah, I'm not going to argue semantics, but I think you'll find that most people consider "fun" and "entertaining" synonyms. That's probably where alot of the disagreement with that tweet comes from. People took it to mean "There should be games that provide no entertainment (or fun) at all." Which would of course be pointless and dumb.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
If people are too ignorant to know the difference between fun and entertaining or engaging then that's their problem, not mine.
Homunculus
Banned
Not necessarily ridiculous.
I'm just saying that, at the end of the day, that one shouldn't get too wrapped up in the lives of fictional characters. It's perfectly fine to be interested or emotional about the highs and lows of your favorite characters, but, at least in my opinion, one shouldn't be overly concerned or empathetic with them because their plight is imaginary.
Damn, I missed this initial post for several days, my GAFing abilities are terrible. Someone catch me up, going to try and skim what I can right now.
Original Topic: Seems fine to me. People have to get payed, and considering she doesn't have a steady job then I don't see a reason why some of the money would go to paying herself and the people she works with. Despite what her detractors might say, I'm pretty sure she's a human who has to eat and sleep like the rest of us. Fairly standard stuff as far as I can tell. Also, I'm pretty sure Feminist Frequency was always a non-profit entity, or at least was always intended to be.
On "Fun": I'll probably be echoing what most people have been saying, it's a fairly meaningless word at this point and severely limits what any medium can do with itself. Campster's video on "fun" is my standard response to the question.
Original Topic: Seems fine to me. People have to get payed, and considering she doesn't have a steady job then I don't see a reason why some of the money would go to paying herself and the people she works with. Despite what her detractors might say, I'm pretty sure she's a human who has to eat and sleep like the rest of us. Fairly standard stuff as far as I can tell. Also, I'm pretty sure Feminist Frequency was always a non-profit entity, or at least was always intended to be.
On "Fun": I'll probably be echoing what most people have been saying, it's a fairly meaningless word at this point and severely limits what any medium can do with itself. Campster's video on "fun" is my standard response to the question.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
The characters are imaginary. Their plight are things real people go through. And I didn't say I become so emotionally distraught that I fail to function. I, like most people, am perfectly able to disconnect from an emotion as soon as we end a session with a game. That doesn't change that while I play a game (or watch a movie/read a book) I feel for the characters.
Thanks for that link. I was trying to find that specific video earlier but couldn't recall who did it.
John Rabbit
Banned
perhaps you'd be more comfortable with the difference between "fun" and "interesting" then.
case in point: i found Papers, Please interesting more than I found it fun. quite pointedly, the game became less fun the longer i played it, which made my overall experience with it more interesting in the long run.
More_Badass
Member
I find it ridiculous in the context in which it's often used. We're in the middle of a discussion on games and fun and the medium invoking other emotions. Saying "it's just a game" adds nothing to the discussion other than basically saying "why are we even talking about this? It's not important"
If a group of people notices their representations in a medium are overwhelmingly problematic, then it's a valid discussion to assess the scope of the problem and why it's troubling. When an industry tends to create those representations outside of the influence of the group in question, that's doubly true.
Hmm, I like games that are blissful fun as well as unfun seriouspants games. There are many forms of entertainment, and not all of them could be defined as "fun."
It really depends on my mood, but sometimes I really don't want to play a gamey game. I want to buy something that really makes me think.
I think it's dumb to try to not make fun, cartoony or stupid fake serious manly man games. But I also think it's dumb that people show resistance towards other, more expressive games.
It really depends on my mood, but sometimes I really don't want to play a gamey game. I want to buy something that really makes me think.
I think it's dumb to try to not make fun, cartoony or stupid fake serious manly man games. But I also think it's dumb that people show resistance towards other, more expressive games.
DragonGirl
Member
Basically, yes, I am saying any depiction of a woman being harmed in a way that frames it as sexy is inherently sexist due to the environment these images are placed in where such depictions are commonly used. That's my point. It's not the individual image, it's the volume, the ubiquitous nature, the over use, the saturation. You can't place bubble wrap around such a depiction and say "this is okay because it's not part of that".
I was talking about old advertisements. Not star power.
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