That was a website specific voucher for 10 pounds off of their regular price that was only slightly cheaper than retail. You need to use common sense.
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[Rumor] Ubisoft is removing games from UPlay bought from unauthorized retailers
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
That was a website specific voucher for 10 pounds off of their regular price that was only slightly cheaper than retail. You need to use common sense.
I was forced to play FC3 in Spain spanish, that for me (mexican) is worse than playing without sound.
GA2 is selling keys too.Some of them if not most are scanned from retail copies (Blizzard subs and games and Xbox Live Gold which is aquired from some asian countries)
If that blocked games were stolen or VPN was used then I think it was perfectly fine what UBI did.
I really doubt that these keys would be locked only because they were sold from G2A or some other site though (although I know UBI and other publishers would love to have only right to sell their own and others games).There is a lot of smaller shops or internet retailers that are selling retail boxes with keys inside which are bought from legit wholesale sources and it is impossible to say where that game was acquired and sold.
wumster3000
Member
Valid point. I wonder how many people purchased keys knowing The site was operating in an illegal manner?
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Avoiding duties and taxes is illegal.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
They only paid fees because they fought the chargeback. If you just accept it, it costs nothing.
So here we go. Finally got through to my buddy a bit ago who gave me the key, said he purchased from g2a. Did the whole support chat with g2a who said they won't help until he sends a screen cap of an email response to a ticket from ubisoft as why the game was removed and the keys banned.
wumster3000
Member
I'm under the assumption that ToS is a legally binding contract between the provider and the user. I understand that ToS length is a major turnoff for consumers to read through, but does that negate the contractual obligation when we select "I agree"?
He purchased it directly from G2A or from user marketplace?
This guy gets it.
if you guys don't get it now: you buy digital, than you don't own it. Simple as that.
Which is why if or when games stop going physical, I will quit gaming for good most likely.
Canis lupus
Member
1. What? G2A is a marketplace where anyone can resell a key. How do you discern who sells something illegal or not?
2. That gaf too has a marketplace which isn't authorized by Ubisoft. I'm not sure you follow.
It was an example that prices can be that "low" at launch in comparison to the official retail price. and btw. those were physical copies, not download keys.
Were those keys mentioned here created using a key generator?
No.
(note: even if the keys were created using a key generator, then it would be Ubisofts fault for doing something like that)
Were those keys made by Ubisoft?
Yes.
So those keys are simply not "illegal". They are official keys.
Someone might have bought them from Ubisoft using a stolen creditcard, who knows, that's speculation. But even that wouldn't make the keys themselves illegal.
Someone used thousands of stolen creditcards to buy lots of them and resold them? Well duh, go after that criminal and fix your systems. There are all sorts of ways to protect against such fraud. When I use my creditcard on some sites (which is most sites), my bank is always contacted, loads its own webpage for a few seconds and checks a few things like for example the geo-location of my browser. I'm pretty sure they would block the transaction if I used my creditcard while being located in for example China all of a sudden. They could also for example force people to enter their address somewhere and check that too. They are too lazy to do that? Well, then it's their own fault.
Why do they even allow anyone to effectively buy a code instead of the game itself directly? If they would limit that, there would have been no way to sell the codes.
Just transfer this whole mess into the real world. I buy some game from a GAFfer. I pay for it. Next: the publisher of that game knocks on my door, enters it and destroys the game, that I paid for because "it was sold to me by an unauthorized seller". Fuck that. If they have a problem, go to the one to whom you sold it to.
He has no clue, he said he went to g2a, searched for Black Flag, bought the listed uplay version and did the same for the season pass via paypal.
Just went to the site, and it looks like it defaults to a g2a listing and you have to manually pick a different user?
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Get off your highhorse and get over yourself. The sites appear legitimate and use legal avenues of currency for transactions. How is it any different from buying a game code off a user on a forum, or on ebay? It's not. Just because some people don't keep track of a company's personal tweets or something to see which websites are OK and which aren't, when they all activate on the client just fine and use legal methods of payment, doesn't mean you need to cast down your lightening bolts from Mt Olympus in a weird, misplaced demonstration of a superiority complex. Like PC gaming is in shambles and about to die thanks to people who buy keys off these sites or something.
Ubisoft don't sell keys themselves and they can't exactly control the security measures of the authorized sellers that do.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Im sure that they have a system in place that can track purchases. Hence the reason why some are considered illegal and others are not. Gaf doesn't have a marketplace authorized by Ubisoft but we have no mention of keys sold by gaffers being banned so I don't see how that's relevant at all.
wumster3000
Member
I've yet to have a problem with going digital from Steam, PSN, Xbox Live, UBI or Origins.
I'm all digital and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. For me, it works because we move around a lot and I don't care for cases anymore. I sold off my physical collection last-gen.
There are pros and cons of both digital and physical. If you lose your physical copy, it's gone. If you break your physical copy, it's gone. I can *logon to any system with my account and have access to my entire library with digital. Is it a perfect system? No, nothing is. But digital works for me and my lifestyle.
You really don't need any extensive research to come to the conclusion that G2A is a very sketchy site, it should be fairly obvious to anyone.
What?
So they authorize certain sellers, but can't control those sellers? For what is that authorization then? Do they throw a dice?
Why do they sell codes? Why don't they simply ask the user to enter his Steam ID and then put the game into the user's account? That way there would be no way to resell the games. It seems there is not enough security for digital downloads in place. They could for example also verify, if the Steam account owner has the same address as the creditcard one. Or at least check the country or something like that.
Hell, when I use paypal for a proxy service in Japan, that proxy service limits my packages to my own home address. I can't send the packages anywhere else. That is security.
Sure they can. They can institute a policy that says we don't allow you to sell keys unless you do X. and then stick to it
Magnetic_North
Member
Cool so after buying Far Cry 4 and Assassin's Creed Unity from G2A Ubisoft have now removed them from my Uplay
i had no idea G2A was dodgy i saw Levelcap, JackFrags and other streamers and other youtubers promoting the site as a way to get games, and now i've been punished by Ubisoft because i didn't know any better
at the moment other games that i have got from G2A that use Steam/Origin are still there
thanks Ubisoft you've just lost a customer for life i'm never buying anything with your name attached to it ever again
i had no idea G2A was dodgy i saw Levelcap, JackFrags and other streamers and other youtubers promoting the site as a way to get games, and now i've been punished by Ubisoft because i didn't know any better
at the moment other games that i have got from G2A that use Steam/Origin are still there
thanks Ubisoft you've just lost a customer for life i'm never buying anything with your name attached to it ever again
Not true. The lowest prices on newer games on those sites line up perfectly with the prices on favorable steam regions.
GTA5 for $9.99 would set off alarms. $54.99, not so much.
At best you're getting new games for $35-$40. It's not like Dragon Age Inq was $12 on release day.
So let me get this straight, you are blaming Ubisoft for the dodgy business practices of G2A?
You should be blaming G2A and demanding your money back from them. G2A sold you the invalid key, not Ubisoft.
Steam? Ubisoft provides Uplay codes only, for their own platform. And of course they can't control these sellers. Do you think Ubisoft has some kind of magic wand that allows them to control Amazon's security measures?
Good luck with that one, sounds feasible as hell.
Magnetic_North
Member
Ubisoft is punishing me because of something i didn't know about
Schreckstoff
Banned
It is a legally binding contract and breaking them can lead to the repercussions of being denied the service but nothing more. Unless they can prove your actions lead to damages in which case they'd have to file a civil suit.
Forsaken82
Member
Pretty sure they don't give a shit considering the money YOU paid for those games on G2A didn't even go to Ubisoft in the first place.
The Cowboy
Member
Steam has done this before already.
One such example.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-06-30-steam-revokes-7050-stolen-sniper-elite-3-codes
Before you had to pick manually other resseler.Now there is some option to promote your offers and you can have it as default offer but there is a message that you are buying from user marketplace.
If I am not mistaken yesterday there was over 100 Far Cry 4 keys from G2A and today they are taken off so there really might be some problem/shady business going on there.
Messofanego
Banned
Don't most developers and publishers see g2a as illegitimate?
Tyler Glaiel (Closure, Bombernauts) would rather you pirate his games than use g2a
Tyler Glaiel (Closure, Bombernauts) would rather you pirate his games than use g2a
Yes. Then someone does a chargeback. Then the retailer contacts Ubisoft so that they revoke those keys. This is standard practise.
Nope, that's not how it works at all.
He's not too fussed, just annoyed. Seems he only went there because it was getting promoted by a twitch streamer he watches. Said he's going to file a dispute with paypal if they won't refund him.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Yes let's hit at the people who are paying out of pocket for now broken products and not the root of the problem >_>
Don't most developers and publishers see g2a as illegitimate?
Tyler Glaiel (Closure, Bombernauts) would rather you pirate his games than use g2a
I'm shocked.
Not in the least bit
There is a small but important detail i don't understand.
Are they banning all keys bought from a 3rd party or keys that weren't paid for and/or break the ToS?
In the first case that would probably be illegal. If the key was legitimately bought and paid for by its first owner, they can't forbid reselling it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc. ).
On the other hand if they are banning keys that were not paid for (for example chargebacks and such) - it's their full right, and all complaints should be directed at the 3rd party seller and not ubisoft.
Regarding keys that were distributed against the ToS - its probably a bit trickier since country specific laws might override some of the ToS terms.
Are they banning all keys bought from a 3rd party or keys that weren't paid for and/or break the ToS?
In the first case that would probably be illegal. If the key was legitimately bought and paid for by its first owner, they can't forbid reselling it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc. ).
On the other hand if they are banning keys that were not paid for (for example chargebacks and such) - it's their full right, and all complaints should be directed at the 3rd party seller and not ubisoft.
Regarding keys that were distributed against the ToS - its probably a bit trickier since country specific laws might override some of the ToS terms.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
My sense is that:
- Banning is probably not the appropriate measure, given that most users didn't know and were not alerted during the process that they were doing any wrong.
- Removing games is absolutely an appropriate measure. If you bought a key from G2A and tried to redeem it on UPlay and at the time it said "Invalid key", you wouldn't blame Ubisoft. You'd blame G2A, right? I actually had something like this happen to me once. I had installed Windows 7 using the developer preview. Whenever that expired (maybe 16 months after release), I bought a key online. The key worked Apparently the key I bought was from an unauthorized MSDNAA reseller, so maybe a year after that, during a routine Windows update, my key got disabled. It was frustrating and random to me and I can't say I wasn't angry with MS, but it's pretty clearly not MS that was in the wrong so mostly I was angry at the key reseller, who had since disappeared. G2A should be on the hook. Now, you might argue that Ubisoft could compensate the players in some way as a matter of optics, and I don't think that would be a bad idea for them at this point, but certainly because it takes them time to discover the reseller keys and they can't pre-emptively block redemption, it's probably fair to say that they have to at minimum remove the games.
- I believe the G2A domain is blocked on GAF, so I can at least be confident that we're not part of the problem. However, I am aware of the fact that any time we block an underground key seller, more pop up, and it requires constant vigilance to prevent them from being discussed on GAF. People frequently suggest key sellers that are clearly not above board. We still lock plenty of threads where people post deals, and only as they post their OP do they realize the reseller is blocked.
You're punishing Ubisoft because of something they didn't know about too, you recognize that, right?
- Banning is probably not the appropriate measure, given that most users didn't know and were not alerted during the process that they were doing any wrong.
- Removing games is absolutely an appropriate measure. If you bought a key from G2A and tried to redeem it on UPlay and at the time it said "Invalid key", you wouldn't blame Ubisoft. You'd blame G2A, right? I actually had something like this happen to me once. I had installed Windows 7 using the developer preview. Whenever that expired (maybe 16 months after release), I bought a key online. The key worked Apparently the key I bought was from an unauthorized MSDNAA reseller, so maybe a year after that, during a routine Windows update, my key got disabled. It was frustrating and random to me and I can't say I wasn't angry with MS, but it's pretty clearly not MS that was in the wrong so mostly I was angry at the key reseller, who had since disappeared. G2A should be on the hook. Now, you might argue that Ubisoft could compensate the players in some way as a matter of optics, and I don't think that would be a bad idea for them at this point, but certainly because it takes them time to discover the reseller keys and they can't pre-emptively block redemption, it's probably fair to say that they have to at minimum remove the games.
- I believe the G2A domain is blocked on GAF, so I can at least be confident that we're not part of the problem. However, I am aware of the fact that any time we block an underground key seller, more pop up, and it requires constant vigilance to prevent them from being discussed on GAF. People frequently suggest key sellers that are clearly not above board. We still lock plenty of threads where people post deals, and only as they post their OP do they realize the reseller is blocked.
You're punishing Ubisoft because of something they didn't know about too, you recognize that, right?
It's not a special case, this is more or less the norm. As soon as you get a charge back rate over 1% of your total sales in a month you can go on the monitoring programs for Visa/Mastercard etc. and they can charge you $100 per additional charge back you receive.
Categorically wrong, every charge back, disputed or not, costs money for the merchant. It's usually $4 per charge back.
1) Buy game on a store front that issues keys, with a stolen credit card/stolen account.
2) Sell game key on marketplace like G2A to an unsuspecting buyer.
3) Profit.
The original sale was most likely conducted with a stolen credit card so Ubisoft received no money (as the card holder would naturally receive that money back via a charge back or pro-active refund from Ubi).
Canis lupus
Member
If they have a system in place that can track purchases, they have a system in place that can track how THEIR OWN keys got in the hands of resellers, so they should render them useless before anyone else is making profit of them. If g2a's marketplace isn't legit then so is gaf's own marketplace not legit or any individual selling keys. The casualty rate doesn't matter and wasn't the point, we were talking about the concept of keys being sold in different avenues than the authorized ones.
Not when the keys are bought with a stolen credit card or a charge back is implemented.
I never use these shady sites, GMG is my go to place since they are authorized resellers. Although I did buy AC:U from Origin for $30 since they never bothered to fix the VPN for 3rd party games. Plus, Unity was a rip off for anywhere near retail price due to all the bugs.
It doesn't matter if it's Uplay, Steam, PSN or some other service. They could do those security measures, if they wanted to. But it seems they don't want to.
I already asked - what does this Ubisoft authorization even mean then? Do they select sellers randomly? Because if they don't, they can of course check the sellers security measures and if it's not good enough, simply reject them. And if the seller fucks up that badly (like in the case here), then simply ban that seller and also sue the seller for the amount of money, that they didn't get.
Why do they have to sell codes anyway? Why can't they simply implement an API for those authorized sellers, so that they can directly give a certain Uplay account access to a game? This would also solve the whole issue for the customer. And then check addresses and so on before doing so. Noone else would be able to sell their games. It's even their own service for christ's sake. It's fully under their own control.
But well, I guess the same Ubisoft experts that developed their latest games also developed their Uplay service.
Amazon for example has quite a few security measures in place. I'm unable to change the shipping address of an order without reentering my creditcard number. And I'm also unable to even select another shipping address without reentering it either.
Messofanego
Banned
Also, what g2a or other key resellers do is apparently against Humble Bundle's TOS.
https://twitter.com/tylerglaiel
https://twitter.com/tylerglaiel
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
As others are saying, if the keys were bought with a stolen credit card or stolen altogether and then resold than it makes sense that they're only now catching on and dealing with those keys specifically. The point is that of the keys that were sold only some were banned while others were not according to some in the thread. Same would apply to gaf's marketplace if a user were to sell another user a stolen key to a game. It also wouldn't make much sense to continue to let the keys be used even if the consumer wasn't aware of how it was obtained.
EA actually does this with Amazon, you don't get codes issued there for Origin games, they're directly entitled to your Origin account. I have no idea if Ubisoft does the same on some titles or not though.