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[Krejlooc]

Honest question since you work for public schools.

Do you have the feeling that the younger generation understand the dangers of internet, and that not everything can be said without consequence, or do they believe that the internet is an impregnable wall where they sit behind and behind that wall they can say everything they like without being hurtful to others?

Because I honestly get the feeling that the latter is more truthful.

I would imagine younger kids have a better understanding of the scope of social media in general (i.e. they know they're not talking in isolation) but, being young in general, they don't understand the consequences of their actions. That last point goes for virtually everything tweens and teens do, not just talking on the internet.

 

[Iorv3th]

Where do these people come from? Anyone remember the devs working on CoD getting death/rape threats because he changed the power of a sniper rifle or something for balance.

I mean there has to be some place on the internet that these people run into each other and this nasty mentality grows from.

Really disturbing.

 

[foamdino]

I was actually of the opinion that a lot of the death threats that have been mentioned in the past are the usual online gaming bullshit that anyone who has played online has had to put up with for years.

Then I read the first few pages. :-(

I'm now of the opinion that, although everyone has put up with death threats and threats of violence against themselves and their families for either killing the avatar of someone else in a deathmatch or somehow failing to live up to some perceived standard of gaming in a team environment (League of Legends springs immediately to mind here), no one should have to put up with this crap.

I agree that in some contexts griefing is part of the game/meta-game - from Eve Online it certainly is part of the social contract you enter into when engaging with the community and in that community it is well understood and accepted. So just because it's always been this way with online doesn't mean it should always be this way.

I would love to know if the fact that many/most online games have no consequence for 'dying' and the primary method of interacting with an opponent is through violence (usually a gun - Team America represent) that the players subconciously feel that all actions associated with the game are non-consequential and therefore non-impactful. After all when someone kills me in a deathmatch I just respawn.

Is there a similar level of harrassment present in hardcore online games ("you die and your game is completely over hardcore", not "hardcore violence" or any other definition of hardcore)?

Is there similar abuse in Minecraft where the primary purpose is to build rather than kill?

Thanks to Anita I'm thinking through these ideas when before I just accepted abuse in online games as the social norm.

 

[Lalalandia]

You're a prick.

Beautifully succinct, pricks like this deserve no more breath/effort.

It is really difficult to know what neoGAF as a community can do to stop this corrosive behavior that takes place in these topics.

We had a Gamergate thread where these sickos would come out occasionally and be all "I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT ANY OF GG BUT QUINN IS A WHORE" type posts, and it seemed to pretty well isolate them into a hole and ostracize them appropriately with their ill-informed arguments. But the downside was we could have no real larger discussions anywhere else on the forum, and legitimate arguments about the problems of games journalism - of which Gamergate has nothing to do with - were largely ignored for a while.
....(much truth)....
They ARE misogynists and hatemongers. There's really no other way to put it.
....(more truth)....
There is never an appropriate time in threads highlighting her harassment to suggest

1. She likes the attention
2. She deserves the attacks somehow
3. That her analysis is so shit that you're somehow disgusted by her
4. That she wants the attacks because she makes more money
5. That she should suck it up because if you're an e-celebrity it comes with the territory

What kind of heartless bullshit prompts someone to say some shit like this? There is a deep fucking problem here. The fact that it may be common does not reduce how serious the issue is. We need high profile people like Anita to address these issues because the problem is not going away and solutions need to be found, point blank.

I can't help but agree, browsing the threads about the targets of GG has seemed to follow a pattern where genuine accounts discuss the issue then the swarm of redundant burner accounts arrive to shit the place up. Do the mods filter for duplicate IPs between burner junior accounts and members or would college NATs mess that up too much?

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Do you have the feeling that the younger generation understand the dangers of internet, and that not everything can be said without consequence, or do they believe that the internet is an impregnable wall where they sit behind and behind that wall they can say everything they like without being hurtful to others?

I was in a middle school a few weeks back for my niece's dance recital and there were all kinds of signs up warning about the dangers of social media. I'm not even that old (26) but kids today are growing up in an entirely different world.

 

[crowphoenix]

Do you see few women in the field, that means EVERYBODY who makes games is a mysoginistic asshole who makes women's lives impossible to a point that never in history have they dared to study careers related to games in fear for their lives.
Or "society has been sexist until the last 40 or less years, tecnology was considered a thing for boys and so females have been encouraged to take on other professions"
My point is: even if there's a sexist environment that's not the cause there are few women but the other way around. They may be some feedback, but I'd say it's rather irrelevant to the whole picture.

How many people in this thread are attacking you, and how many are simply engaging you? It only takes a few to make life difficult. Now in a field that is seen as hostile against you or "a thing for boy," it becomes easy to feel threatened and attacked. It also takes special people to wade through that shit.

 

[Great-God]

Fallacy of relative privation.

To an extent, yes. My fault. That doesn't change the fact that she isn't threatened or in danger sonshe doesn't have the right to claim she is. Hell, by some comments here and following her I'm being harassed and insulted.

Why can't we care about both?
Also, these things go hand-in-hand. I'm really simplifying things, but if women are consistently portrayed in media as sex objects/inferior, is it that much of a stretch to think that these attitudes also translate to the workplace? Boob plates don't exist in a vacuum. The idea had to start somewhere.

There are films that portray men as sexual objects. There are mysoginistic books written by women. Teen blockbusters contain fascist propaganda. One can complain, but not suggest invasory changes in these industries in order to change that

The latest I've read indicates that once you control for the difference in male and female mathematics test scores, the gender gap disappears in CS.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/2...equired-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/

That's not to say that it isn't a problem, and I'm certainly not saying "lol women suck at math." My best guess is that stereotype threat and similar phenomena are likely the cause of poor female test scores, rather than innate ability. But it still means our solution to "not enough women in CS" should be raising women's test scores in math, rather than dealing with harassment or misogyny in CS.

This.

 

[laser]

don't kid yourself, she was attacked LONG before you and your fellow twitter warriors harassed the shit out of her after watching thunderf00t.

What?! I was saying the people who attacked her's stupidity made her famous, and that she doesn't deserve any of this. That unlike celebrities who might be prepared for the hate, she wasn't.

I consider her a valuable voice in the gaming community.

Please don't consider me a part of GG just because of my junior status. Just look at my post history.

#notalljuniors, lol.

 

[foltzie1]

Yes I do. Unlike you I have made points beyond the "You deserve but mocking". Also, is that an allusion to my age?

You think you have made "points", but they are so ill thought out and ill conceived they dont deserve the dignity of the replies they are getting.

Oh, and it is a reference to your maturity level, as you clearly arent a teenager, but then again, not being a teenager isnt so much an accomplishment rather than something that just happens.

 

[Gestault]

https://www.youtube.com/user/ExtraCreditz/search?query=women

These have (on and off) been some of my favorite pop-commentary on the issues in game content. They generally manage to avoid presumptuous criticism of audiences that I think (while often accurate) distract from the message. Relying on what's in the content itself, both in intent and in execution should be the goal, because I think even hinting at making personal judgement brings out the worst in personal reactions. And this is a situation where those reactions are already going to be ugly, because the problem is so socially entrenched.

 

[zoukka]

In some ways I would not be too upset if social media would be controlled more and policed. I want all of these people in some police database for an eternity.

 

[Krejlooc]

Where do these people come from? Anyone remember the devs working on CoD getting death/rape threats because he changed the power of a sniper rifle or something for balance.

I mean there has to be some place on the internet that these people run into each other and this nasty mentality grows from.

Really disturbing.

I've received death threats over this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=925240

As in people threatening me (and the others) for not releasing stuff fast enough, or not releasing stuff to people's expectations.

People on the internet are crazy.

 

[Shmuppers]

Where do these people come from? Anyone remember the devs working on CoD getting death/rape threats because he changed the power of a sniper rifle or something for balance.

I mean there has to be some place on the internet that these people run into each other and this nasty mentality grows from.

Really disturbing.

Spoiler

Half kidding

 

[andymcc]

What?! I was saying the people who attacked her's stupidity made her famous, and that she doesn't deserve any of this. That unlike celebrities who might be prepared for the hate, she wasn't.

I consider her a valuable voice in the gaming community.

Please don't consider me a part of GG just because of my junior status. Just look at my post history.

#notalljuniors, lol.

sorry for the confusion. that was unfair of me.

i blame the other juniors lol

I've received death threats over this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=925240

As in people threatening me (and the others) for not releasing stuff fast enough, or not releasing stuff to people's expectations.

People on the internet are crazy.

i wanted to bring this up because i remember you talking about it but i'm glad i didn't have to lol

is there any other fandom with this level of vitriol?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Honest question since you work for public schools.

Do you have the feeling that the younger generation understand the dangers of internet, and that not everything can be said without consequence, or do they believe that the internet is an impregnable wall where they sit behind and behind that wall they can say everything they like without being hurtful to others?

Because I honestly get the feeling that the latter is more truthful.

Honestly, it depends on the age group. The Internet changes so frequently to the point students in a middle school seem to be using an entirely different set of online resources than those in high school. I see the most problems coming from those in the 10th to 12th grades. Below that however there seems to be a better understanding of cyber-bullying and the impacts it has on people. I contribute that increase to our anti-bullying task force that has started younger and focuses more on the Internet in recent years.

 

[The Technomancer]

It is really difficult to know what neoGAF as a community can do to stop this corrosive behavior that takes place in these topics.

We had a Gamergate thread where these sickos would come out occasionally and be all "I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT ANY OF GG BUT QUINN IS A WHORE" type posts, and it seemed to pretty well isolate them into a hole and ostracize them appropriately with their ill-informed arguments. But the downside was we could have no real larger discussions anywhere else on the forum, and legitimate arguments about the problems of games journalism - of which Gamergate has nothing to do with - were largely ignored for a while.

On the other hand now that the GG topic is dead, every fucking topic on these sensitive issues is filled with abhorrent human beings in throwaway junior member accounts saying the most vile, detestable shit imaginable and trying to couch it in the guise of "legitimate questions."

The most infuriating thing is realizing just how prolific these rejects are in the community, because honestly it has made me incredibly suspect of the motives of fellow gamers where before I never automatically approached such conversations with extreme cynicism. Like I notice sometimes I'm prone to overreact to otherwise innocuous comments because I've become so sensitive to these prowling jackasses who have not a shred of human decency or empathy amongst them that it makes me quick on the trigger.

They ARE misogynists and hatemongers. There's really no other way to put it.

If you come into a topic like this and the first fucking scrap of shit out of your mouth isn't how sorry you feel for Anita and how fucked up this is and how we need to find solutions to it, there is something deeply wrong with you.

There is never an appropriate time in threads highlighting her harassment to suggest

1. She likes the attention
2. She deserves the attacks somehow
3. That her analysis is so shit that you're somehow disgusted by her
4. That she wants the attacks because she makes more money
5. That she should suck it up because if you're an e-celebrity it comes with the territory

What kind of heartless bullshit prompts someone to say some shit like this? There is a deep fucking problem here. The fact that it may be common does not reduce how serious the issue is. We need high profile people like Anita to address these issues because the problem is not going away and solutions need to be found, point blank.

This echoes how I feel right now. And then you realize that this is how bad things are inside our community with as close to zero tolerance for this sort of thing as you can get, and you just recoil in horror at what's going on elsewhere on the internet.

 

[oni-link]

I've received death threats over this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=925240

As in people threatening me (and the others) for not releasing stuff fast enough, or not releasing stuff to people's expectations.

People on the internet are crazy.

Wow, some of those Sonic fans are

Xtreme

 

[Wind's Howling]

I would imagine younger kids have a better understanding of the scope of social media in general (i.e. they know they're not talking in isolation) but, being young in general, they don't understand the consequences of their actions. That last point goes for virtually everything tweens and teens do, not just talking on the internet.

Perhaps that is the case. I was pretty ignorant in my younger days, but I didn't had twitter back then. I definitely wouldn't know what I would have posted if that type of media was present in my younger years. Heck, I even still say dumb shit from time to time.

 

[cirrhosis]

Spoiler

Half kidding

8chan is the proper answer to this, really. 4ch gets a lot of shit.

This thread has been super depressing to read, but I've sort of expected it after the last couple of threads.

 

[flashtitan]

This is despicable and disgusting. Just because you don't agree with her views doesn't automatically mean you can threaten her. These tweeters really need to grow up.

 

[crowphoenix]

The latest I've read indicates that once you control for the difference in male and female mathematics test scores, the gender gap disappears in CS.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/2...equired-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/

That's not to say that it isn't a problem, and I'm certainly not saying "lol women suck at math." My best guess is that stereotype threat and similar phenomena are likely the cause of poor female test scores, rather than innate ability. But it still means our solution to "not enough women in CS" should be raising women's test scores in math, rather than dealing with harassment or misogyny in CS.

Right, which is why changing games to be more inclusive can foster the ability for more people to be interested in and want to pursue a career in tech.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I mean there has to be some place on the internet that these people run into each other and this nasty mentality grows from.

You can see a lot of that kind of mentality in this thread even. A lot of this shit:

I wonder if it comes from how gamers were such an isolated community for so long, probably full of awkward people who got mad at everyone else for not embracing their arrested development.

 

[Krejlooc]

Wow, some of those sonic fans are

Xtreme

They're not really from Sonic Fans, most of it comes from the script kiddy type of antagonist. The Lizard Squad types, in other words.

 

[shiba5]

I'm going to get flamed for this but I think there's nothing wrong with it. Gaming, like any form of art, is subject to that of the creator's own choices. If some women complain that they are not well represented in video games, well then, they should make their own.

So this forum has no reason to exist.

"This game is only 900p!!"

Well, go make your own.

"No FOV slider!"

Go make your own.

Let's just make this easy:
"I don't like how this game does _____."

GO MAKE YOUR OWN.

See how ridiculous this gets?

 

[MrChocolate]

I was actually of the opinion that a lot of the death threats that have been mentioned in the past are the usual online gaming bullshit that anyone who has played online has had to put up with for years.

Then I read the first few pages. :-(

I'm now of the opinion that, although everyone has put up with death threats and threats of violence against themselves and their families for either killing the avatar of someone else in a deathmatch or somehow failing to live up to some perceived standard of gaming in a team environment (League of Legends springs immediately to mind here), no one should have to put up with this crap.

I agree that in some contexts griefing is part of the game/meta-game - from Eve Online it certainly is part of the social contract you enter into when engaging with the community and in that community it is well understood and accepted. So just because it's always been this way with online doesn't mean it should always be this way.

I would love to know if the fact that many/most online games have no consequence for 'dying' and the primary method of interacting with an opponent is through violence (usually a gun - Team America represent) that the players subconciously feel that all actions associated with the game are non-consequential and therefore non-impactful. After all when someone kills me in a deathmatch I just respawn.

Is there a similar level of harrassment present in hardcore online games ("you die and your game is completely over hardcore", not "hardcore violence" or any other definition of hardcore)?

Is there similar abuse in Minecraft where the primary purpose is to build rather than kill?

Thanks to Anita I'm thinking through these ideas when before I just accepted abuse in online games as the social norm.

Sorry to be rude, but you didn't have a brain before?

 

[Krejlooc]

Perhaps that is the case. I was pretty ignorant in my younger days, but I didn't had twitter back then. I definitely wouldn't know what I would have posted if that type of media was present in my younger years. Heck, I even still say dumb shit from time to time.

We got the internet in 1988. I can go back and look at ancient posts in places I've made 15, 20, 25 years ago and they make me cringe at times.

 

[stump sock]

What?! I was saying the people who attacked her's stupidity made her famous, and that she doesn't deserve any of this. That unlike celebrities who might be prepared for the hate, she wasn't.

I got what you meant by the way, and I think it's an important distinction. if you're a celebrity you have a lot of channels open to you to protect you from hostile outside forces. PR, bodyguards, etc, etc. If you're just a random person who takes on a project as a hobby (even if you're soliciting money to pursue it), you can't be prepared for the situation Sarkeesian found herself in.

 

[Beefy]

The Verge dug into a few of the accounts with some amusing results:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/28/7923491/anita-sarkeesian-week-of-sexist-twitter-harassment

Yep trolls being trolls, they see who it is fashionable to abuse and join in. It's what makes (most) social sites etc the cesspools we know today.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

Do you see few women in the field, that means EVERYBODY who makes games is a mysoginistic asshole who makes women's lives impossible to a point that never in history have they dared to study careers related to games in fear for their lives.
Or "society has been sexist until the last 40 or less years, tecnology was considered a thing for boys and so females have been encouraged to take on other professions"
My point is: even if there's a sexist environment that's not the cause there are few women but the other way around. They may be some feedback, but I'd say it's rather irrelevant to the whole picture..

Your first statement here is a straw man. Structural sexism in games is a result of the demographic of both the industry itself and the demographic the games are marketed to. That does not mean that every male in the games industry is sexist, nor does Anita claim that. Also, google the Petrie Multiplier.

Yes I do. Unlike you I have made points beyond the "You deserve but mocking".

Saying you have made points does not mean you have argued well. It's not nice to call you dumb, though.

I have no right to decide, but I have the right to opine that this is detrimental to the fight for women's rights.

Yes, you have the right to an opinion. However, when that opinion is based on a logical fallacy, expect people to call you out on it. Unless you can credibly establish a causal relationship between the wage level of women (or the other "true problems" you mentioned) and the amount of attention given discussion of gender in videogames, that argument is figuratively a pile of poopoo.

One can complain, but not suggest invasory changes in these industries in order to change that

Just out interest, please explain what invasory changes in these industries she is suggesting.

That doesn't change the fact that she isn't threatened or in danger sonshe doesn't have the right to claim she is.

Nice job moving the goalpost/throwing a red herring. This argument, has nothing at all to do with the whole issue of "true problems". It's literally unrelated. It's also patently false. She is, by the very definition of the word threatened, threatened. People are giving her threats. Literally. You might argue that they are not likely to act on that threat. But that's the thing, a murder threat is a threat, if you go through with it, it's murder. The fact that it's a part of CoD-culture or whatever doesn't negate the fact that threatening a person is a violation.

With that in mind, I no longer have faith in neither your intent or ability to carry on an open discussion.

 

[foltzie1]

I was actually of the opinion that a lot of the death threats that have been mentioned in the past are the usual online gaming bullshit that anyone who has played online has had to put up with for years.

Then I read the first few pages. :-(

I'm now of the opinion that, although everyone has put up with death threats and threats of violence against themselves and their families for either killing the avatar of someone else in a deathmatch or somehow failing to live up to some perceived standard of gaming in a team environment (League of Legends springs immediately to mind here), no one should have to put up with this crap.

I agree that in some contexts griefing is part of the game/meta-game - from Eve Online it certainly is part of the social contract you enter into when engaging with the community and in that community it is well understood and accepted. So just because it's always been this way with online doesn't mean it should always be this way.

I would love to know if the fact that many/most online games have no consequence for 'dying' and the primary method of interacting with an opponent is through violence (usually a gun - Team America represent) that the players subconciously feel that all actions associated with the game are non-consequential and therefore non-impactful. After all when someone kills me in a deathmatch I just respawn.

Is there a similar level of harrassment present in hardcore online games ("you die and your game is completely over hardcore", not "hardcore violence" or any other definition of hardcore)?

Is there similar abuse in Minecraft where the primary purpose is to build rather than kill?

Thanks to Anita I'm thinking through these ideas when before I just accepted abuse in online games as the social norm.

Sorry to be rude, but you didn't have a brain before?

Come now, this was a big step and a bit of insight on their part, dont mock them for not getting there sooner.

 

[Great-God]

You think you have made "points", but they are so ill thought out and ill conceived they dont deserve the dignity of the replies they are getting.

Oh, and it is a reference to your maturity level, as you clearly arent a teenager, but then again, not being a teenager isnt so much an accomplishment rather than something that just happens.

Yet you still don't answer with reasoned arguments. I'm reding interesting posts around here, but...

And, I love how maturity is always mentioned. That's a clear example of an ad hominem fallacy.

As a matter of fact... I AM a teenager.

 

[Wind's Howling]

We got the internet in 1988. I can go back and look at ancient posts in places I've made 15, 20, 25 years ago and they make me cringe at times.

Guess I am lucky that most sites I posted at are gone.

But I do not think I ever made sexual or rape threats, though. That is a whole nother level.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

As a matter of fact... I AM a teenager.

I can assure you that we knew.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Yet you still don't answer with reasoned arguments. I'm reding interesting posts around here, but...

And, I love how maturity is always mentioned. That's a clear example of an ad hominem fallacy.

As a matter of fact... I AM a teenager.

If you make extremely condescending posts, I don't think it's all that surprising that people don't treat you completely seriously in their responses.

 

[Goliath]

My question is, is this large amount of harrasment targetted at her because she is trying to change the gaming culture or is this vast amount of harrasment caused by the vast amount of media attention her Kickstarter got?

Either way, the behavior is deplorable but I am wondering if her Kickstarter would have gone under the radar would she have as much hate mail (I know she would always have hate mail, everybody who pushes for change gets some). Either way it's both good and bad that her Kickstarter got this attention. It's good because video game companies are aware that there is a desire for diversity in gaming, but bad because she is subjected to threats.

 

[More_Badass]

Where do these people come from? Anyone remember the devs working on CoD getting death/rape threats because he changed the power of a sniper rifle or something for balance.

I mean there has to be some place on the internet that these people run into each other and this nasty mentality grows from.

Really disturbing.

Oh, there is such a place. This was a fascinating read that explained so much about the behavior and attitude about a lot of these people.
https://storify.com/a_man_in_black/how-chan-style-anonymous-culture-shapes-gamergate

 

[andymcc]

I can assure you that we knew.

lmfao

 

[MrChocolate]

Come now, this was a big step and a bit of insight on their part, dont mock them for not getting there sooner.

Sorry, I'm not mocking him.
I just find hilarious that people lack a little bit of common sense.

Of course is not ok to be yelled or threatened. What I can't believe is that someone needs "Anita, the saviour of Rome", to be aware of something as simple as that.

 

[Krejlooc]

Guess I am lucky that most sites I posted at are gone.

But I do not think I ever made sexual or rape threats, though. That is a whole nother level.

I am confident I never made any posts on the level of "I WILL FUCK YOUR CUNT TILL YOU DIE" type of sewage, but, like all young people, I definitely though I had it all figured out way too soon.

 

[dwells]

(moved to next page.)

 

[laser]

My question is, is this large amount of harrasment targetted at her because she is trying to change the gaming culture or is this vast amount of harrasment caused by the vast amount of media attention her Kickstarter got?

Either way, the behavior is deplorable but I am wondering if her Kickstarter would have gone under the radar would she have as much hate mail (I know she would always have hate mail, everybody who pushes for change gets some). Either way it's both good and bad that her Kickstarter got this attention. It's good because video game companies are aware that there is a desire for diversity in gaming, but bad because she is subjected to threats.

One of the reasons that her Kickstarter got so much attention was because of the harassment she got from people who were offended that she was doing such a Kickstarter.

 

[Krejlooc]

Are the immature and hateful responses to her necessarily indicative of deep-rooted and institutionalized sexism? Or are they more representative of general anger, immaturity, and an inability to handle criticism and opposition?

It's both. They are expressing immature anger... but they default to stupid sexist shit.

 

[inki]

That is truly horrible. Reading (only a portion of) those makes me think MANY of those posters are not legal adults. They probably don't even know what the word Feminism means.

 

[MYeager]

You can criticize the product all you want, and the developers may hear your complaints, but.. the video game industry is just that, an industry, and these companies are trying to make money. They know their target demographic. The artwork, narrative, and gameplay of their games reflect that. How does a (imo) shitty, recycled game series like call of duty sell so many copies in each iteration? It isn't because they let you make your online character female now, that's for sure.

But that's not what you said, you said that women who make those complaints should just go make their own game.

You're right, it is an industry that's trying to serve their demographic. If parts of that demographic feel under represented by the product how do they inform the industry of this? On the flip side, you say companies know their demo. How so? Wouldn't it be in there best interests to listen to complaints from their audience?

Call of Duty sells so many copies because it was one of the first to have a progression feedback loop. Really that's a great example of a company that probably would've sold as many copies regardless but listened to their audience and added in online female characters. People complained, the company listened and made alterations while still staying true to their vision of the game. Fantastic example of what I'm talking about.

 

[foltzie1]

Yet you still don't answer with reasoned arguments. I'm reding interesting posts around here, but...

And, I love how maturity is always mentioned. That's a clear example of an ad hominem fallacy.

As a matter of fact... I AM a teenager.

I can assure you that we knew.

If you make extremely condescending posts, I don't think it's all that surprising that people don't treat you completely seriously in their responses.

So what you are saying is that I over-estimated your age? I'm not certain if that is a positive or a negative.

You would be right that it is ad hominem to mock you for your age or perceived maturity level, but not every thought that comes of your head (or mine) is sacrosanct. Would you make the same kind of arguments about blacks or another race?

Ghandi might suggest that one should turn their other cheek to those who would strike their first cheek with a stick, but Ghandi was a better man than me.

Adult topics deserve adult considerations, not the mewling of the immature.

This may well end up as my avatar quote. (plus mewling is an awesome word)

Edit: typo and clarification

 

[kmax]

What's up with some of the juniors and the shit posting?

To think that some people actually defend these misogynistic assholes. It's bizarre.

 

[sonicmj1]

.
Also, a developer's career is not Anita's. Has Corrine Yu (Random female developer) ever been harassed by gamers?

I'm having trouble finding the source on mobile, but but I remember some anonymous alleged ex-343 developer trying to ruin her career by starting rumors that she was a hack programmer who only got praise by taking credit for her male colleagues' work.

 

[foltzie1]

Sorry, I'm not mocking him.
I just find hilarious that people lack a little bit of common sense.

Of course is not ok to be yelled or threatened. What I can't believe is that someone needs "Anita, the saviour of Rome", to be aware of something as simple as that.

Well if it helps, it took some people seeing firehoses turn on blacks trying to register to vote to figure out that segregation (or Jim Crow) wasnt a good idea.

 

[MJLord]

I've received death threats over this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=925240

As in people threatening me (and the others) for not releasing stuff fast enough, or not releasing stuff to people's expectations.

People on the internet are crazy.

That is madness.

 

[Great-God]

Your first statement here is a straw man. Structural sexism in games is a result of the demographic of both the industry itself and the demographic the games are marketed to. That does not mean that every male in the games industry is sexist, nor does Anita claim that. Also, google the Petrie Multiplier.



Saying you have made points does not mean you have argued well. It's not nice to call you dumb, though.



Yes, you have the right to an opinion. However, when that opinion is based on a logical fallacy, expect people to call you out on it. Unless you can credibly establish a causal relationship between the wage level of women (or the other "true problems" you mentioned) and the amount of attention given discussion of gender in videogames, that argument is figuratively a pile of poopoo

Just out interest, please explain what invasory changes in these industries she is suggesting.


Nice job moving the goalpost/throwing a red herring. This argument, has nothing at all to do with the whole issue of "true problems". It's literally unrelated. It's also patently false. She is, by the very definition of the word threatened, threatened. People are giving her threats. Literally. You might argue that they are not likely to act on that threat. But that's the thing, a murder threat is a threat, if you go through with it, it's murder. The fact that it's a part of CoD-culture or whatever doesn't negate the fact that threatening a person is a violation.

With that in mind, I no longer have faith in neither your intent or ability to carry on an open discussion.

You are distorting what I said: I'm aware of the sexism in media, but the causes are not what Sarkeesian says.
And the problem with that so called logical fallacy is that it's an opinion about a specific fact, which is the consequences of Sarkeesian's media attention in the fight for rights of women. I never tried to establish a relationship, but to completely dismiss Sarkeesian's relevance in the fight for women's rights which I believe can be easily argued for.

The changes she suggests, there's the intent to get more women to work in the industries when there are many more qualified men than women in the field.

With threatened, I meant "in danger". Sorry for that, the word in Spanish can mean both. Of course she's been threatened, but my point is that she acts as if she was an exception, which she's clearly not.

So what you are saying is that I over-estimated your age? I'm not certain if that is a positive or a negative.

You would be right that it is ad hominem to mock you for your age, but not every thought that comes of your head (or mine) is sacrosanct. Would you make the same kind of arguments about blacks or another race?

Ghandi might suggest that one should turn their other cheek to those who would strike their first cheek with a stick, but Ghandi was a better man than me.

Adult topics deserve adult considerations, not the mewling of the immature.

This may well end up as my avatar quote. (plus mewling is an awesome word)

Yet, without having typed anything meaningful, you brag about your potential avatar quote and quote Ghandi. (Actually, Jesuschrist already said that)

I can assure you that we knew.

Well it's not the first time I said it, I can assure you I'm not impressed. Oh, he didn't.

If you make extremely condescending posts, I don't think it's all that surprising that people don't treat you completely seriously in their responses.

Yeah, sometimes I sound a bit agressive and English is not my mother tongue. However I didn't escalate this.