US Army twitter faces racism backlash for using phrase "chink in the armor"

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I suppose my position is this: that usage of certain words and phrases may change over time and can be dropped as the new word/usage becomes predominant. This effect may be accelerated as the sharing of information is faster than ever, thus the evident growing pains.
 
SRG01 said:
But that's exactly the point, I think. Offense needn't be rational and can manifest in many different ways.

edit: grammar
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Sure taking offense to things isn't necessarily a rational thought process. But they shouldn't demand the whole world apologize to them and conform to their views because they misread a comment and took offense to a very common usage that wasn't racist.
 
Foggy said:
It is. Relent and submit.
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Get the pitchforks ready!! To twitter!!!

Spic-and-Span.jpg
 
Xenus said:
Sure taking offense to things isn't necessarily a rational thought process. But they shouldn't demand the whole world apologize to them and conform to their views because they misread a comment and took offense to a very common usage that wasn't racist.
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To be fair, questions of should and shouldn't aren't very useful when people clearly are. That's because should/shouldn't are still rational thought processes.

I mean, yes I do agree that this phrase shouldn't be an issue. Nor should people take offense at this phrase either. And yet, people are taking offense at it because of some internal emotional reaction to the word.
 
Word policing is such a lazy form of activism. I can see how a word recognition script would throw a red flag there. But you would think an actual human would be able to understand context.
 
backslashbunny said:
wat.

To be totally honest with you, if a friend used that word with me, I would look at them oddly. I've heard it used before, but only in slightly racist ways involving black people. Like the word "niggardly," aside from GRRM, it seems like it's an excuse for people to say something that sounds like a bad word :x.
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Niggle has been used in racist ways? If you don't mind, I'd like an example, because that makes no sense.

Have you never heard of the phrase "niggling details"? I work in events and I use this phrase all the damn time.
 
Labor said:
Dunno if this has been posted yet:

http://www.rsdb.org/race/asians

People get very creative with hate.
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There's a database for just racial slurs?

backslashbunny said:
Yeah, that would make sense-- the reason why you're surprised to see people upset over the word chink is probably the same reason why I'm surprised to see people using the word bitch to describe female dogs... and most likely the same sort of surprise that the offended party here was to see the word chink (and hence... reacted the way they did.)
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Oh, I'm not surprised people find 'chink' offensive when it is used offensively. I am surprised people are freaking out when it's used in 'Chink in the armor', and calling for the word to die out for its uncommon usage.
 
backslashbunny said:
Wait, really? Because you never hear it, it's not an issue?

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/aug/01/local/me-29387

The word "chink" was carved into his parent's car.



You're right, I should have clarified that I meant it in a normal, everyday conversation sense. I have literally NEVER heard in conversation (literally never heard) of anyone saying "bitch" in reference to a dog.

So yes, I have literally never heard a single person refer to their/a dog as a bitch.

I imagine that if you were talking to your pastor and describing your dog, you'd probably not say something like "yeah that bitch had five pups the other night." I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, it's hardly ever used that way anymore. Even just reading that makes me give pause because bitch has been used against women so much seeing it, regardless of context, is still a little "eh what."


edit: Oh, I get it. I guess it's the "since it never happens to me it's not an issue" issue.

I suppose that works, too.
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So, you dismiss anectodal evidence of something not happening to a person, then you post anectodal evidence of one case of "chink" being used as a slur?

I know it is used as a slur, but your argumentation could use a lot more rigor than that. If you don't accept anectodal evidence don't post anectodal evidence.
 
backslashbunny said:
I don't think the tweet is racist.

I feel like I said that before, but I should probably clarify again. I, personally, do not think the tweet is racist.

I don't think the word "chink" is a racial slur when being used as "chink in one's armor."

I don't think the "outrage" is justified, either.
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Yet you still said

Man, this thread is really full of people that want to hang onto their racist words, I guess.
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While people were just defending it's use as in "chink in the armor". I think that's what got many kind of upset
 
backslashbunny said:
wat.

To be totally honest with you, if a friend used that word with me, I would look at them oddly. I've heard it used before, but only in slightly racist ways involving black people. Like the word "niggardly," aside from GRRM, it seems like it's an excuse for people to say something that sounds like a bad word :x.
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I really don't even know what to say to you....honestly I don't.
 
backslashbunny said:
I don't think the tweet is racist.

I feel like I said that before, but I should probably clarify again. I, personally, do not think the tweet is racist.

I don't think the word "chink" is a racial slur when being used as "chink in one's armor."

I don't think the "outrage" is justified, either.

But, it really shouldn't be so difficult to understand why a group of people that get called "chink," and are exposed to the word "chink" as primarily a racial slur, might react so emotionally to seeing that word-- regardless of the context.

If you combine with that with how often racism against Asian Americans is ignored, dismissed, and otherwise brushed off, then it should be something you can understand, even if you don't agree.

Yeah, I'm wondering if cracker has become, in the past hundred years or so, a common slur against white people and restricted to non-slur usage in only a couple select idioms.

Yeah, that would make sense-- the reason why you're surprised to see people upset over the word chink is probably the same reason why I'm surprised to see people using the word bitch to describe female dogs... and most likely the same sort of surprise that the offended party here was to see the word chink (and hence... reacted the way they did.)

wat.

To be totally honest with you, if a friend used that word with me, I would look at them oddly. I've heard it used before, but only in slightly racist ways involving black people. Like the word "niggardly," aside from GRRM, it seems like it's an excuse for people to say something that sounds like a bad word :x.

Oh, I remember hearing about that. It didn't seem racist-- just people parodying kung fu movies. No different than parodying Twilight or other popular things. Though oddly enough, I think the issue was combing Chinese and Japanese elements together, like one big "Asian" theme... or something about all Asian cultures/Asians being the same. I don't remember the details.
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Honestly, for most people across the US, seeing outrage over the use of "chink in the armor" is pretty much on par with outrage over the use of "cracker" when referring to food.

Both are clearly used in a non-racial way and are addressing completely different topics that have nothing at all to do with race. In that aspect, it does come across as people looking to get offended. Sort of like the other thread about the girl who was offended because someone thought she might be a hipster.

As far as usage of the words, I would venture that most people of our generation haven't really seen "chink" used in a racial way. Our grandparents? Most certainly. Our parents? Possibly. For most though, it is something that is read about in history books. Not something day to day.

Even when the Jeremy Lin thing was in the news, it was recognized as an unintentional mistake because of the historical context of the word and how it could be used as a double meaning in that specific usage. Should it have been caught? For sure, a copy editor messed up. But if Lin was of any other ethnicity, no one would have batted an eye at the headline.

I would gather that the term "FOB" is used as a slur against Chinese more than anything else. Sadly, it seems to be the go-to insult among idiots in the SF area.

"Cracker" you're more likely to see used as a direct insult on a personal level. It'll be used when people are pissed off, on signs at protests, etc. It's not day-to-day common, but it's nowhere near a dead insult.

"Bitch" as it refers to dogs is only going to really be used if you're a dog owner and decide to have puppies. Anyone who breeds (even if it is just a litter) is going to use "bitch" and "stud" to refer to the dogs. If you're not a pet owner and don't hang around them, it's not likely that you'd hear the words used in their original context.

As for niggardly, it is used among finance types. The last time it made the news was over a decade ago (I linked it on the first page of this thread).

There was outrage from a bunch of people who had no idea what it meant, but that quickly died down and pretty much everyone, including the local head of the NAACP was calling for the guy who used it to get his job back.

Words do change and language evolves. But that doesn't mean that everything has to go to the lowest common denominator simply because someone who doesn't have a strong vocabulary doesn't understand something.

Yes, it is perfectly possible to understand why someone might mistake a phrase like "chink in the armor" or a word like "niggardly" if they had never been exposed to it. But at the same time, there should also be some reciprocal understanding that hey, these aren't exactly inflammatory phrases. They're fairly basic parts of the English language.

The Army didn't have to pull it down, but when they saw people were taking it the wrong way, they went ahead and did so. They shouldn't be crucified for that. Even sparking a discussion is a good thing.

But the folks who are demanding that the Army apologize are out of line. Those are the ones who are showing a complete inability to understand "the other side."
 
This exact same thing happened when a sports writer inadvertently used "chink in the armour" in an article about Jeremy Lin.

backslashbunny said:
So yes, I have literally never heard a single person refer to their/a dog as a bitch.
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Dog breeders and enthusiasts use "bitch" all the time in its "female dog" meaning, to distinguish it from "dog" (male dog), the same way farmers use "hen" and "rooster" for chickens.
 
Syriel said:
Honestly, for most people across the US, seeing outrage over the use of "chink in the armor" is pretty much on par with outrage over the use of "cracker" when referring to food.

Both are clearly used in a non-racial way and are addressing completely different topics that have nothing at all to do with race. In that aspect, it does come across as people looking to get offended. Sort of like the other thread about the girl who was offended because someone thought she might be a hipster.

As far as usage of the words, I would venture that most people of our generation haven't really seen "chink" used in a racial way. Our grandparents? Most certainly. Our parents? Possibly. For most though, it is something that is read about in history books. Not something day to day.

Even when the Jeremy Lin thing was in the news, it was recognized as an unintentional mistake because of the historical context of the word and how it could be used as a double meaning in that specific usage. Should it have been caught? For sure, a copy editor messed up. But if Lin was of any other ethnicity, no one would have batted an eye at the headline.

I would gather that the term "FOB" is used as a slur against Chinese more than anything else. Sadly, it seems to be the go-to insult among idiots in the SF area.

"Cracker" you're more likely to see used as a direct insult on a personal level. It'll be used when people are pissed off, on signs at protests, etc. It's not day-to-day common, but it's nowhere near a dead insult.

"Bitch" as it refers to dogs is only going to really be used if you're a dog owner and decide to have puppies. Anyone who breeds (even if it is just a litter) is going to use "bitch" and "stud" to refer to the dogs. If you're not a pet owner and don't hang around them, it's not likely that you'd hear the words used in their original context.

As for niggardly, it is used among finance types. The last time it made the news was over a decade ago (I linked it on the first page of this thread).

There was outrage from a bunch of people who had no idea what it meant, but that quickly died down and pretty much everyone, including the local head of the NAACP was calling for the guy who used it to get his job back.

Words do change and language evolves. But that doesn't mean that everything has to go to the lowest common denominator simply because someone who doesn't have a strong vocabulary doesn't understand something.

Yes, it is perfectly possible to understand why someone might mistake a phrase like "chink in the armor" or a word like "niggardly" if they had never been exposed to it. But at the same time, there should also be some reciprocal understanding that hey, these aren't exactly inflammatory phrases. They're fairly basic parts of the English language.

The Army didn't have to pull it down, but when they saw people were taking it the wrong way, they went ahead and did so. They shouldn't be crucified for that. Even sparking a discussion is a good thing.

But the folks who are demanding that the Army apologize are out of line. Those are the ones who are showing a complete inability to understand "the other side."
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If you expect anyone to believe that that speaks English then you are absolutely out of your mind. And let me add that I'm totally in agreement that the offense being taken is of no merit.
 
People are only calling this racist because they don't even know what words mean.

I once had a friend ask on Twitter whether he could use the phrase "spick and span" in a thing he was writing, because he thought "spick" would be mistaken for "spic" and be offensive to Hispanic people.

I mean, how hard is it to look stuff up?
 
Halvie said:
And how often do you hear chink used as a slur...? I live in whitey white racistville and can't remember the last time I've heard it. Have heard chink in the armor used a fuck of a lot more. Zipper head, sure. Slant eyes, obviously. Chink in the armor? Fuck off.
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...What the hell. It's silly but I thought I had heard every racial slur but..yeah. I almost respect their originality....I don't even get it.
 
This is not racist. Context is correct, without any troubling connections like the Jeremy Lin headline.

Only fault is the awkward sentence construction, with the plural "chinks" and the very long prepositional phrase before the "armor". Those twitter guys jumped the gun before they finished reading the sentence.

The growing movement in calling out casual racism is a very good thing, but this is just crying wolf.
 
I'm Asian and in this case I'm unoffended, incapable of understanding the feelings of offense, and moreover fearful of the "cry wolf" effect of getting outraged over nothing.
 
The silver lining in situations like this is that real racist will become complacent and misuse their newfound loophole to ill effect.
 
I'm asian, I don't think this is a big deal. That ESPN article a couple years back was in bad taste though, dunno how that got approved even though it didn't really bother me.
I live in the south and get casual racism thrown my way all the time, you just kinda ignore/live with it.
 
KieferCrimson said:
What the hell are you talking about.


Yeah, either it's a stupid giggle or "huhhhh?" when I ask for stuff at some electronic stores.

Apparently the right term is A-B or whatever. Just give me the damn cable.
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Wait, really? A/B is not nearly as semantically descriptive as male/female. How stupid.

legacyzero said:
There's MANY ways that people can take something WAAAAAAAY out of context, or misunderstand someting.

"I Dont like "The Juice"
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I need to watch this channel more.
 
I know the term is an actual term, but I've always wondered why it isn't "Kink in the armor." It seems to make more sense. Chink in the armor is like, an actual part (a chink) of the armor, right?

Can someone clarify?
 
JayDub said:
I know the term is an actual term, but I've always wondered why it isn't "Kink in the armor." It seems to make more sense. Chink in the armor is like, an actual part (a chink) of the armor, right?

Can someone clarify?
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Nope. A kink is an unnatural bend, and chink is a crack or opening.
 
i was watching a tv program one time and the guy was building a log cabin, when it was time to put logs together and weather seal them, he called the material used to fill the cracks 'chinking'. a good handful of legitimate uses for that word, too bad its been made taboo by racists, kind of like the swastika.
 
hopefully this means the internet will back my petition to get this vile, racist product removed from store shelves immediately:

362cfN6.png


I can only imagine how much glee the makers of this despicable object get knowing how many mexicans will use it to clean hotel rooms.
 
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