Herpes Reasons
Banned
Nope. Just calling out bullshit which your statement was.
If you wouldn't date transgender people, where do you begin to regard their gender?
- Thread starter wildfire
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Nope. Just calling out bullshit which your statement was.
People don't like to be told their own feelings are wrong, and that when they are also hypocrites? Imagine that. Isn't that why you made that post in the first place?
Assuming everyone wants a child, either at that time in their life or ever. There's more to life than having kids.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yup. It really depends.
Bring it on, I'll teach my hypothetical strawman son to be a true pervert.
Or someone likes to use bad logic. Could be either.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
To you perhaps. To others, it's very important. Who are you to dictate what should be important and how important to someone else?
I was very happy when an ex GF wasn't pregnant and I also was very excited when I found out that my wife at the time was pregnant with my daughter. And? People feel differently at different times of their life? They want different things with different people? I knew from an early age I wanted to be a father and marry someone who could provide that to me. Shit happens and it was possible the woman I married wouldn't be able to but I also know that trans in general cannot provide that which is very important to me so...? Am I a bigot for wanting a woman that I know was born with the physical attributes which can allow her to get pregnant? Natural vagina? A womb? The fact that some posters in this thread require men to be ok with being in a relationship with a trans sexually or otherwise or they categorize them as bigots is just so crazy.
Perhaps the people who are in this thread discussing their reasoning according to the topic, making a relevant post and justifying their reasons, has something to do with it?
But what is general again?
It's curious just how little you can conclude from that.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I can't tell you how many people I know who have told me that they weren't ready to be a father and hated the idea when reality hit them and the lady/girlfriend got pregnant. They only really came back to their senses when they see the baby. Many of them are fantastic parents.
Either some here are already parents or they aren't in the current state of time where the gilrfriend just told them the news.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I'm just asking questions. Can I just ask the questions?
I see your point (and note that I never took the "I need to procreate" approach, despite being a father), but you know that what one person said in one thread says nothing of what another person says in another thread. Several parenting threads exist as well. At least point us to the childless person who was doing an endzone dance over a vasectomy and who's joined us here to explain his sexual preference as nothing more than his desire to make babies.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
There is a great deal of thought, but you are correct in the absence of compassion; I tried to be as unemotional as possible in contexts such as this, namely, that of a public forum. And while that comic is amusing enough that I'm going to bookmark it, it is not really applicable, as this thread is a perfectly reasonable location in which I can ask for such explanations. If you are unwilling to read my posts, feel free to refrain from doing so, but please do not tell me that I must leave because you disagree with them. That defeats the entire purpose.
Dude, even I'm a chatty guy and your posts are irking me. I feel like there's no compassion or thought behind them.
No right to what? Engage in critical thinking? Form my own opinions rather than memetically repeating a slew of designated statements?
Not to mention different people participate in those threads.
But painting with broad strokes is easier.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Apparently not unless you want to be categorized as a bigot. Which is just shameful.
I'm not saying they're not important but that people have options. Your post made assumptions about people who were happy to not have a pregnant GF.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
Exactly. I'm 35 and love my daughter more than myself. I wouldn't have been ready to be a father at age 25.
You are questioning someone's own personal choice and attacking it. What do you hope to achieve, understand them more? It doesn't seem so, you want him to feel like he has less of a moral compass than yourself. Quit it.
Crash Station
Member
I see nothing wrong with wanting a natural birth. Regardless of how irrational it is when there are many other options, people can very easily assign it as something important from an emotional standpoint to drive home the connection to their SO and whatnot.
I'll give you a piece of helpful advice and say that is isn't really a good idea to imply that someone probably doesn't love their girlfriend.
User 73706
Banned
I get the point you're making, but I think the guys getting excited over infertility aren't the same ones in here that have kids.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
I think you misunderstood me; I never said that you didn't love your girlfriend. I merely stated that all the other people that she casually hooks up with do not, as based on your own statements she is emotionally intimate to you alone. I thought that your assertion that sex and love were separate in your relationship would absolve me of any need to explain this dichotomy in detail, but it would appear that on some level you still conflate the two, leading to the aforementioned misunderstanding.
This forums' tendency to conflate curiosity with criticism never ceases to amaze me.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
No, it's pretty obvious how it came out and it's obvious you have no interest in discussion. I used depression because I have depression and people told me it wasn't real when I was suicidal. Telling people "you're just imaging this but I'll humor you" is kind of the thing I just despise and I despise all the people that do that. Trans women treat their problems by transitioning to identify as women. "Treating" being a trans woman with therapy to "heal them back to identifying as being real men blah blah" would be like treating depression with "just get over it, this isn't real." I don't think being trans is an illness and I apologize if I implied it to trans women and trans men on this forum, I just find empathy with trans men and trans women through my past experiences of dumb people trying to play science when they have shit for brains and tell people to "get over it."
KiwiLannister
Member
I know you're trying so hard to appear smart with your verbose and tedious use of the English language, but the opinions you've provided prove the complete opposite. You're extremely narrow minded and condescending, your views on the things being discussed in this thread out you as someone with little life experience and poor compassion.
As for the thread topic. I would absolutely date a transgendered woman. Obviously it would require that I felt the same attraction for them as for a woman, but I'd have no problem with the idea. I wouldn't care if she was still pre op too (although me being kinda bi probably makes that less of a deal breaker than most men). I don't think I'd date a guy that was trans though, from what I understand the surgery doesn't have as successful an outcome as for the women.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I guess that's fair. I'm still not compelled to think anyone has to explain those motivations even on a message board, but if people want to, that's their prerogative. At the same time I don't know if continually pressing someone for an answer is all that helpful either.
For me, I don't know. I've thought about it, and there is a maybe. Not sure what any criteria would be. I don't even have a standard criteria for women in general. When I find someone attractive I guess I look for facial features/head shape/bone structure, overall body shape, butt, breasts. But all of that is on a case by case basis to be judged as I see a woman. Then of course personality, aspirations, history, fun things to do, etc.
Aside from pointing out that NONE of your posts have even a hint of curiosity in them, if you were, don't you already have whatever answer you can get from him?
If you were really curious about open relationships and whether not the kind of love you expect in a relationship to arise, all you can do is ask him if he loves her or that he is happy being in the relationship he is in. Which obviously is a stupid thing to do.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
You're right.
I don't have much life experience.
That's why I ask these questions.
I'm not trying to appear to be anything at all.
I'm just trying to learn about the lives of other people.
I don't know how I'm not being compassionate, either.
I have had my questions answered.
But he seems to think I was saying something I wasn't.
I don't want him to leave this thread thinking someone insulted him.
Because despite what you believe, I do care about other people.
KiwiLannister
Member
Start with the tone of your posts then. You write with stiff informal language and use words that are rather out of date. You clearly understand how to write well in the strictest sense, but a good writer should know their audience: this is a discussion forum, not an English essay. Write as you would speak. Will prevent you coming off so condescending and aloof.
For example this:
Should be more like:
"I am trying to put thought into this, but I generally try to remain unemotional when I'm talking on the internet. And while that comic is funny - I'm going to bookmark it - it doesn't really apply in this context since this is the best place for me to ask these questions. If you don't want to read my posts that is fine but that doesn't mean I have to leave the thread"
See the difference in tone?
Don't worry about that, I doubt very much he is affected by how your posts came off. I'm sure we all agree that you have posted an apology already.
To be clear, I don't think anyone assumed you were actually as awful as you were making yourself sound.
EmpressInYellow
Banned
That is something that a lot of trans people deal with on more or less a daily basis, yeah.
It's not something a lot of us talk about much, except maybe to other trans people, because a lot of folks tend to get defensive and insist they're not like that. But yeah, you're pretty much going to get to always wonder if your friends, your family, your co-workers, etc. are really just humoring you while smirking behind your back.
And yet people continue to wonder why maybe trans people don't always leap at the opportunity to tell everyone they're trans.
My girlfriend and I are both typically dancing for joy when we find out she's gotten her period. She's often abnormally late, so it gets worrisome sometimes. We're also both very grateful for the fact that her having a kid/getting pregnant is, in fact, an option. There is no contradictory or hypocritical reaction here.
Hopefully you can understand that. People responding to your initial accusations are either: defending themselves from a blanket generalization, or pointing out a shaky logical fallacy. People get called out for saying shit like that all of the time, so a bunch of people getting on your case over it is not indicative of any sort of struck nerve or underlying bigotry you may think you've found.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
Yeah, I see what you mean. My main problem with writing like this is when you're writing how you talk it is really easy to be too emotional. My formal style is tedious to read but it is kind of like a speed bump that stops me forming saying something rash. I would be really embarrassed if I thought that I seriously offended someone. But hey, if no one is actually reading my posts because if it than I guess I'm just wasting my time even with good intentions. I'll try to write more simply in the future; it may not be as elegant but at least people will actually read it.
You're one of the first people to give me advice about my posts that isn't just "they're wrong"; thanks.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I can understand him now!
First of all, I think you overestimate how open minded some people can be. Some people are just really transphobic. If GAF's moderation wasn't as strict as it is (btw, it is NOT a bad thing that it's as strict as it is in this case), you'd see a lot more slurs directed towards trans people being thrown around and a lot more people who just less nice and willing to consider trans people their actual gender in general. That's how topics along these lines usually end up on most other discussion sites that aren't specifically designated as being safe spaces for trans people. The reason that I'm bringing this up is to make the point that it's not really that hard to believe that a lot of people really aren't open-minded and really aren't open at all to dating trans people.
Second of all, I don't think it's really that tough even if you have limited exposure. After all, it's not like you can't just use Google and see within minutes that there are trans women and vaginas that look basically indistinguishable from cis women and cis vaginas. Idk it seems like you're making excuses for people here that don't necessarily need to have excuses made for them.
This is from a million pages ago, but I couldn't respond faster (sorry). The link you provided doesn't actually address my point, because I'm not suggesting that trans people are more dangerous or likely to commit sexual assault. Rather, my point is that women have a legitimate and rational fear of sexual assault (which is statically committed most frequently by men) and that they may not be able to easily identify every trans woman as a trans woman.
Some amount of the trans population is likely to cause discomfort for cis women, because of this confusion. I think its probably true that the vast majority won't, because they will be clearly viewed as women, but when people talk about feeling uncomfortable sharing intimate spaces, I think they are largely talking about feeling scared and confused, if they can't tell how the other person identifies. This discomfort can't be hand waived away as just bigotry, because its starting point is a legitimate fear.
Yeah, I personally wouldn't be able to take it, and am glad I never have to. Like if a whole forum said, "hey, that guy, I'd never date him or give him a chance. I can't see him as really a man; just a preference thing you know?" Shit like that would absolutely destroy me.
This thread has proven to me that minds don't change. We are how we are. Preferences, prejudices, lines drawn in sand. Because ideas are written instead of spoken, it allows people to think through their thoughts before writing them, still, nothing changes. Just proves we/re all humans, faults and all.
quoting myself since i am still confused and curious
So not true. There is a lot I have been open to thanks to the internet, and I have witnessed this in many others.
Otherwise no one here would even bother having a discussion.
One of my trans friends has a loving family, but just from going to high school with him people have been terrible. The transition period was rough even from where I was standing. After going through junk like that, hearing "supportive" people say things like "it's just a preference thing" to you get old. Probably better if they just not say anything.
We both go to the same school elsewhere now, and no one knows about his history. But it was the saddest thing when he mentioned that he was sitting somewhere minding his own business and people at a table nearby were talking about how disgusting they thought it was to be trans. I hate that he still has to deal with people's ignorance.
I think his insight on trans issues is really important, but I also try not to bring this stuff up because he has to deal with it all the time elsewhere.
natsuyasumi
Member
Thanks for the genuine empathy. Just a quick skim of this thread has brought down my mood tonight.
"Supportive" indeed.
Your logic is that as a post-op transgender woman you are the final word on the authenticity of surgically created vaginas and the rest of us are clueless.
If that logic follows then I - as a father - have the right to tell you you've got no fucking clue what you're talking about on this topic right?
JasonUresti
Member
Typically the scenario is presented as you find someone physically and emotionally attractive, you really like this person, but stop/wont date them when you become aware they are trans. The question then becomes what does that do to change your perception of them and why.
It's an appeal for the absolute truth. Does someone say they support and accept trans individuals honestly, or the end do they internally still think of them as a man or woman, and offer support because they feel it's the right/good/socially responsible thing to do but can't actually bring themselves to accept and believe it.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I find it rather baffling that you are baffled by this.
You may think this as being funny and witty, but I see this post as, bluntly speaking, stupid.
Jesus christ. It's easy to see why these threads get so heated.
freenudemacusers
Member
what a dumb post. for real.
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