Ready at Dawn responds to "concern" over The Order: 1886 campaign length

Alienous said:
Are you sure it was complete? I was only aware of an unfinished Bioshock Infinite one, and a linearly played Amazing Spider-Man 2 one.
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Yes complete. The Bioshock one was incomplete, like roughly half way through I believe. But even then still below the average play through time for that game too.
 
BadAss2961 said:
That's the thing, there is none.
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I just listed a few... not the best comps but better than comparing it to Heavy Rain. Sheesh.

nib95 said:
Ironically, the same guy that did this Order 1886 play through that has everyone talking, also has a play through of Wolfenstein, which he completed in 7 hours. But as you've rightly stated, the average play time for the game is generally much longer than that.
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I'd be thrilled with another Wolfenstein type of single player focused, high production thing.

Wonder if there's something to TLOU just raising expectations a whole bunch too.
 
RSTEIN said:
They're probably not sweating it yet. GAF doesn't represent the average gamer. Look at the success of Destiny, Wii, Watch_Dogs, etc. We're also not saying anything they don't know themselves.

The Order has been marketed very successfully, it will probably do well. Not much competition out there right now.
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So true. Ever since joining this forum, I've learned about a whole new side of video games and its industry.

TO1886 looks like a very original and immersing game. I'm hoping it does well. After reading that Kotaku article about devs and their experiences on being laid off and such, there's people's livelihoods at stake here.
 
nib95 said:
Ironically, the same guy that did this Order 1886 play through that has everyone talking, also has a play through of Wolfenstein, which he completed in 7 hours. But as you've rightly stated, the average play time for the game is generally much longer than that.
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I believe you're referring to RadBrad's Wolfenstein playthrough that people were discussing, he's not the uploader that played through The Order in 5 1/2 hours.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs1-UdHIwbo4YxMo9-qwqtATId7GZp4K4
 
vesvci said:
It's total bullshit IMO. If The Order is shipped out broken like Driveclub or MCC or Unity AFTER release, than by all means let hail and brimstone come down. But for fucks sake, the game is not even out yet and there's a lot of people "concerned" about the game's length. And what's ridiculous about this is that it's based on a video that's 5+ long, and who can really verify it? Only a person that has really played the game before release AND is willing to sit through a video of someone else allegedly playing it for 5+ hours.

This stuff is what leads be to believe that there's some agenda against this game, just like Driveclub before its release.

I switched from physical pre-order to digital pre-order because of all the negative talking about this game. I can't wait to play it. I'm supporting the devs here.
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I believe there's no agenda against this game nor Driveclub. This game has been marketed as a "cinematic experience" and that's something that confuses some people. This is not a "gamey game", instead it focus on telling a story, combining it with great visuals and linear gameplay. Just like people have been shitting on Quantic Dream games for quite a while now.
 
mrklaw said:
I don't really think RAD would have deliberately gone for a small story with no multiplayer unless they were limited in scope by factors such as time, or getting up to speed with the technology as this is their first? home console game.

I hope now that they have their engine working nicely, then any sequel or whatever the next title from them is, has more content. I'd have thought a coop multiplayer mode reusing existing assets would be doable for relatively little extra time in development.

That isn't to excuse RAD for releasing something short, but I'm just thinking there may be mitigating factors. Fingers crossed they get the chance to do another game and they can flesh out their ideas.
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But when I think about it the lack of a Mercenaries-like mode is weird.

The Arkham series, before Origins, had the challenge maps. A heavily cinematic, linear game like Max Payne 3 had, aside from the multiplayer, an arcade and time trial mode.

It seems like they could have very easily, albeit artificially, beefed up the package. I'm no expert, but repurposing some story levels would probably be a simple compromise.
 
mrklaw said:
I'd prefer a blowjob over a couple of handjobs. Both would be around the same price, and the blowjob would be a much shorter experience but I'd enjoy it at least as much as the handjobs.
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Yeah, would you still feel that way if the blowjob was 37% talking and 63% sucking?
 
Footos22 said:
Meanwhile at telltale they rub there hands whilst People keep buying "games" where you press a button every 10 mins ina super linear game with shit graphics on a buggy engine and get game of the year acolades.

This thread really is pathetic
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Isn't that what most of the people who care too much about The Order are doing?

O8uEpb6.gif
 
BreezyLimbo said:
Oh definitely, but the gameplay is fucking solid for that game despite the lack of content. The 1886's gameplay is looking to disappoint from the videos I've seen with all the...QTEs. I simply used the example of Destiny/Bungie because that other poster was like 'Game development is hard' for me calling out that they've been working out on 1886 for 5 years.
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The minute to minute shooting is solid in Destiny. If you want to include the shitty "wait x time for this stupid robot to do shit" or "unload x many clips into this boss before they die" then I'd argue aspects of the gameplay are pretty bad in their own right. Most of the firsthand impressions I've seen of the actual gunplay in The Order have implied that the shooting is pretty solid.
 
Alienous said:
But when I think about it the lack of a Mercenaries-like mode is weird.

The Arkham series, before Origins, had the challenge maps. A heavily cinematic, linear game like Max Payne 3 had, aside from the multiplayer, an arcade and time trial mode.

It seems like they could have very easily, albeit artificially, beefed up the package. I'm no expert, but repurposing some story levels would probably be a simple compromise.
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You're assuming the team sizes for those games were the same, and that the time & resources required for content creation in the last gen are the same in this current gen.
 
Nirolak said:
I don't see many people complain when an indie game that cost them $20 is a 5-7 hours long singleplayer experience, and some of them get to the million sales mark or beyond (albeit after notable discounts).

Of course, most of these games don't look like The Order 1886. When people pick up Shadow Warrior on Steam they understand that they're not going to get production values through the roof.
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Shadow Warrior is a good 10-12 hours on an average playthrough, actually.
 
When people stretch the meaning of a game's replay value to basically means nothing stops you from re-playing the same experience, I know I'm not on the same page as them. Videogames can be replayed, full stop. It comes off as a spurious response that replaying a game is the answer to it being a shorter experience than one might like. Game design can make subsequent play-sessions or play-throughs highly rewarding, but from everything I've heard of the Order, it doesn't appear to capitalize on that.
 
I wouldn't even touch the multiplayer if they made it. I generally buy games for a specific purpose. I didn't try the multiplayer in GTAV, , TLOU, tomb raider, uncharted series, etc.

I didn't play the single player in battle field 4.

I'm surprised after the delays we are hearing about a lack of content. I guess I'd rather keep the hope until i can see it worth my own eyes.
 
CosmicQueso said:
I just listed a few... not the best comps but better than comparing it to Heavy Rain. Sheesh.



I'd be thrilled with another Wolfenstein type of single player focused, high production thing.

Wonder if there's something to TLOU just raising expectations a whole bunch too.
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TLOU essentially raised under bar to ND level, TLOUR on the PS4 with mp, left behind and all the maps doesn't help make it easy for RAD in terms of content expectations either.
 
FoneBone said:
Shadow Warrior is a good 10-12 hours on an average playthrough, actually.
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I've been playing Shadow Warrior lately thanks to the PSN sale and it's the first game I can remember playing that feels too long. I think it's more like 20+ hours, at least on hard while collecting some things.
 
Koh said:
I wouldn't even touch the multiplayer if they made it. I generally buy games for a specific purpose. I didn't try the multiplayer in GTAV, , TLOU, tomb raider, uncharted series, etc.

I didn't play the single player in battle field 4.

I'm surprised after the delays we are hearing about a lack of content. I guess I'd rather keep the hope until i can see it worth my own eyes.
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I'm the same as you with the rest, but get into this one next time around. It's good.
 
I'm honestly fine with a 6-8 hour single player game with no multiplayer. For me I either play a game for a long time (To grind out levels, become more powerful etc) or I play a game almost exclusively to play the Single Player or Multiplayer part of it.

I bought Battlefield 4 for example JUST to play the multiplayer (If it didn't have single player I wouldn't care and still would have bought it)

In the same token I bought Call of Duty games JUST for the single player (A few I have played a bunch of multiplayer on PC but not the recent games).

I'm fine with a carefully crafted story and experience that is enjoyable and respects my time. If the production values are good, the story is interesting and the gameplay is fun I'm fine with paying $60 for that. I'm at that point in my life now, maybe years ago when I didn't have the income for many games I wouldn't want a 6-8 hour game because I'd need it to hold me over much longer before my next game. Now with some games they are so long that I never finish them before something more interesting comes out (Or my friends move on to some other multiplayer game).

I guess my TL;DR is Some people don't care about the 6-8 hour length and some people do, to each their own.
 
BreezyLimbo said:
This game has been worked on since since 2010. Unless they ended up scrapping whatever they had in the first couple years, that's 1 year for 1 and a half hours of gameplay. </sarcasm on that last part.>

But seriously what were they doing those 5 years.
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As far as I know RAD is not a huge team. Also, because this is a new IP, they don't have any pre-existing assets to work with. Everything had to be built from scratch. I would imagine that the next game (if there is one) would have a much shorter dev cycle.

Some devs just take longer than others. Playdead has been working on Inside since 2010, and that's a downloadable Indie game.
 
RAD should work out a deal with Nintendo where they get to put this on every retail package of the game.

tfLMcdj.png


I think it would diffuse this whole mess.
 
Pestilence11 said:
I've been playing Shadow Warrior lately thanks to the PSN sale and it's the first game I can remember playing that feels too long. I think it's more like 20+ hours, at least on hard while collecting some things.
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Same here. It's fun but the lack of variety really makes it drag.
 
jacks81x said:
As far as I know RAD is not a huge team. Also, because this is a new IP, they don't have any pre-existing assets to work with. Everything had to be built from scratch. I would imagine that the next game (if there is one) would have a much shorter dev cycle.

Some devs just take longer than others. Playdead has been working on Inside since 2010, and that's a downloadable Indie game.
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there linked in profile just says

Company Size
51-200 employees

but they didn't really begin mass hiring for the order until 2012.

So 3 years roughly for a dev cycle for the game. This probably includes developing the engine as well.
 
Interfectum said:
Trying to think of last year... Wolfenstein and The Evil Within? Would they count?
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Well, I think they're close, but apparently a bit longer.

HLTB lists 12 hours for Wolfenstein: http://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=16886 (it also came with the Doom multiplayer beta)

The Evil Within gets listed with 15.5 hours: http://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=9866

They are pretty conceptually similar in that they're singleplayer only and linear though. They're also both mediocre sellers, but getting around 1-1.5 million shipped is kind of what I imagined as The Order's cap without bundling anyway. Maybe 2 million if Sony really over invests in marketing.

FoneBone said:
Shadow Warrior is a good 10-12 hours on an average playthrough, actually.
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Ah, well then, that's an even better "value" conceptually.

BadAss2961 said:
That's the thing, there is none.

It's almost like Heavy Rain (which was successful) in terms of how cinematic it is, but it also happens to be a third person shooter with like the greatest graphics ever. Can't be sure of what kind of draw it'll be.
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I guess in that case there's technically Beyond: Two Souls, but I think that sold quite a bit less than Heavy Rain.

CosmicQueso said:
I'd identify a few games that are maybe somewhat similar. Granted, some of these had tacked on multiplayer that few (if any) people played. The Order could have tacked on a similar MP mode no one would have played. I geuss we'll see if that was a good or bad choice. Sometimes including something like MP is what you do in order to tick the consumer value box, not because you think people will actually play it or that it'd be particularly good.

Tomb Raider 2013 (12+ hours, MP that no one played)
TWD Survival Instinct (still sold really well despite being terrible) (5+ hours)
Dead Space 3 (13+ hours, with co-op so not the best comp)
Wolfenstein (12+ hours)
Riptide (11+hours, also not the best comp)​

I'll guess that The Order will fall short of Tomb Raider 2013 sales, but exceed the others on the list.
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I do think co-op is a strong modifier, and Tomb Raider did have notable run around and grab random stuff in a hub padding, but that's probably the strongest match (that's majorly successful) since I agree with you that there's no notable MP element.

Actually on that note when it was unveiled I assumed The Order would be a four player co-op game on that front.

Edit: Right on Survival Instinct's I wanted to note I kind of mentally exclude that because of the super popular license which The Order doesn't benefit from. If this was a huge production value Walking Dead game by RAD I'd be a lot more optimistic.
 
nib95 said:
But are you really sure? This YouTube playthrough has the whole thing at 7 and a half hours!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUNxKj-p-EUSRU0bhWN90UInByN54FstG


(P.S, it's the first one that popped up on YouTube. And yes, I'm being facetious.)
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Casual difficulty mode in a completely combat oriented game ...

Sure, You made a great point for RaD.

Of course lets also completely omit facts that You cant get all upgrades in one playthrough, that there are two new game+ modes, there is a challenge mode, there is a scoring system and game has a lot of secrets.
 
RoboPlato said:
Same here. It's fun but the lack of variety really makes it drag.
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As someone who finished Heroic mode, I'd agree. There's really no reason at all to use the guns as a primary play style since they do too little damage to be useful when you need to fend off against a group of mobs chasing you down.
 
ViciousDS said:
there linked in profile just says

Company Size
51-200 employees

but they didn't really begin mass hiring for the order until 2012.

So 3 years roughly for a dev cycle for the game. This probably includes developing the engine as well.
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I think the tech guys have said they were on it for five years. Probably a couple years of dedicated engine work and period research, small team production for a year, and full production starting in 2012.
 
ViciousDS said:
there linked in profile just says

Company Size
51-200 employees

but they didn't really begin mass hiring for the order until 2012.

So 3 years roughly for a dev cycle for the game. This probably includes developing the engine as well.
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They used a team of 120 (including some contractors) for exactly 4 years to create the game.
 
On Demand said:
A thing called post history. It reveals all. Alot are just hating the game for fun and have no intention of buying a PS4 or this game.
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Ok, mind quoting these people for me then? Why is everything so black and white with some of you. The current discussion is about the game's length and some of you can't take it. Maybe you're just too invested into your purchase?

I haven't seen a single post saying "the games sucks" so why are you tripping? Where does the hate come from?
 
RoboPlato said:
I think the tech guys have said they were on it for five years. Probably a couple years of dedicated engine work and period research, small team production for a year, and full production starting in 2012.
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2009 was when they started the engine design and made the decision to go console-centric.

But I could see them having starting the work on 1886 in 2011 and then full pro come the year after.
 
-MD- said:
Don't Telltale games last 10-12 hours no matter what and cost like $20-25 at launch?
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10-12 hours of deciding on triangle circle x or square. Every now and again and getting the same outcome by the end of the season. And the disc release of walking dead was £29.99 the same as I ended up paying for this and has even less replayability.

There's room for all types and lengths of games. People just need to live With that fact. If you don't like, vote with your wallet. But it won't make a difference game will still do over a million by mid March.
 
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