It's really improved. By improved I mean essentially ripping the base UI straight from SimCity 2013. I'm not complaining though.
No problem with this. Sim City's UI was one of the few things that game got right.
SimCity a disaster for you? Take a look at Cities: Skylines (not related to CitiesXL)
- Thread starter Mad Season
- Start date
No problem with this. Sim City's UI was one of the few things that game got right.
chrominance
Member
On the one hand, sure. On the other hand, SimCity 2013's agent-based simulation could hardly be called realistic, and in many ways felt less lifelike than previous games. Take, for example, the fire trucks that would drive around in circles past the fire they were supposed to put out. Or the commuting example where workers returning home had no set residences, so they'd pull into the next closest driveway, meaning a bunch of cars on a small, house-lined road would pull into one empty driveway after another, like falling dominoes.
A true agent-based simulation would be the most accurate and the most likely to generate spontaneous, lifelike behavior. But if Maxis's attempt was any indication, that kind of thing is still out of reach of the computers SimCity was targeting. Granted, those were single-core and dual-core systems.
Wolf Akela
Member
Still cautiously optimistic. I'll try waiting around 2 weeks after release. I'm sure people will find out about bugs. Even my beloved SC4 has a few really annoying bugs (never fixed even with mods).
Wolf Akela
Member
The aliasing bothers me. Will there be FXAA support? How about borderless windowed?
Except CSL is going to be multicore but even then CO decided to soft upper limit was gonna be ~1 mil population and 9 tiles (36km^2). You can mod it beyond that at your own risk, but who knows.
Like I said, agent-based simulation is fairly new, so I don't mind if people want to do it but at some point it needs to be optimised if people want to see larger numbers, and despite fixing all the flaws SC5 had (residents now having a home and a job instead of needing to look for one every day lol), there are still some which are frankly hard to simulate and program and debug. If any of you saw the post re: disappearing cars, it's a matter of gridlock existing but the devs sorta 'cheating'/'shortcutting' their way with road system. It's not wrong, frankly it's probably something they hadn't anticipated and too hard to fix properly (e.g. making drivers actually move along and switching lanes, speeding 'safely', etc.). I believe they get teleported but still get ticked there was gridlock, so it does what it's supposed to overall, just not perfectly.
I'm no programmer but I feel like if you want agent-based simulation you should limit it to city services and possibly non-road public transit and just kinda let abstract stats do the rest of the work.
At least I think they got rid of agent-based simulation for utilities like in SC5. That was kinda pointless IMO.
I think one of the many things they got wrong with SimCity 2013 was the fact they took the agent simulation too far.
They had this glassbox engine, and well, you know what they say: when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Agent based electricity? Water? Turds?
The game was fun to begin with, but as soon as you realised that it didn't scale and was broken and even cheating in many ways, the fun just deflated really quickly.
It looks to me like C:S might have the best of both worlds. No, it won't be perfect, and it will have its own limitations and problems. I am hopeful, however, that it will be fun for longer than SC 2013 was.
They had this glassbox engine, and well, you know what they say: when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Agent based electricity? Water? Turds?
The game was fun to begin with, but as soon as you realised that it didn't scale and was broken and even cheating in many ways, the fun just deflated really quickly.
It looks to me like C:S might have the best of both worlds. No, it won't be perfect, and it will have its own limitations and problems. I am hopeful, however, that it will be fun for longer than SC 2013 was.
Sevenfold
Member
This is what killed it for me, especially when the electricity decided it wa turning left instead of right. It was a terriblle idea and removed that geeky buzz when the power infastructure you created was perfect.
Just to clarify, with Skylines I can follow a sim round and they have a house and a job? Not just random sims like SC5? I know about the traffic problems and I'm fine with it. Any sting it might have is softened considerably by allowing mods.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Ahh great, edicts/policies are there.
Will it have "styles" like in SC4? Like how buildings resemble a certain age.
Will it have "styles" like in SC4? Like how buildings resemble a certain age.
Q&A session on modding happening this Wednesday at /r/CitiesSkylines/.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
It uses Unity so it should have MSAA. This image for example:
Man, just look at the size of that city, it's an actual city! In a modern city building game!@!!!!@!!
I'm genuinely excited for this to come out. I've not been this hopeful for a new game since...well since Banished came out, lol. If Skylines turns out to be a disappointment I may just go postal....
Yea, that's been one thing I noticed as well. Especially since they all seem to have this same hazy blue look to them.
Not a deal breaker, but I'll be looking forward to mods.
The closer this thing gets, the more I am interested in it. Still haven't pre-ordered it from anywhere, but I feel that I might.
Actually, I even downloaded and booted up SimCity last weekend. Built my regular Trinities city and watched the game become a total snoozefest of stupid bottlenecks.
The way Skylines deals with building size might be its greatest strength in the long run. But I cannot see myself go back to dragging power lines and poop pipes by hand.
Actually, I even downloaded and booted up SimCity last weekend. Built my regular Trinities city and watched the game become a total snoozefest of stupid bottlenecks.
The way Skylines deals with building size might be its greatest strength in the long run. But I cannot see myself go back to dragging power lines and poop pipes by hand.
Even though different buildings will come with those mods, u can select different themes, which changes the appearance and atmosphere of ur city.
North Theme:
Sunny Theme:
Tropic Theme:
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Also since it's Unity it'll do Fullscreen however your OS handles Fullscreen with Unity. On OS X I'm happy to know it'll put the game in its own fullscreen space like I want it to. As long as it doesn't take over my whole machine in case I have to force quit it I'm happy.
Please don't turn into dependency hell like SC4 did.
Also are there any videos of people playing into the late game? That's what I'm concerned about. And not CO/Paradox loading a late game save, I mean someone playing into the hundreds of thousands population.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Oh sweet! I am so going for a tropical city!
motorised mallard
Member
What does this mean? While I have played a decent amount of SC4 but maybe not really that "deeply", I'd like to know what this is.
wit3tyg3r
Member
It uses Unity so it should have MSAA. This image for example:
This... this looks so beautiful! *crying tears of happiness*
Something like this is long overdue. I can't wait until release!
I do agree that there isn't enough variety. Thankfully, they are being fully supportive of the modding community, especially with Steam Workshop integration. I'm sure we'll see multiple building "packs" in the near future.
Also, another good thing about them supporting modding is that they won't be able to get away with selling building packs like Maxis/EA does. There's no reason to pay for things like that since there will be free mods that will add similar things. Hopefully any expansions that get released will be functional additions.
TimeEffect
Member
How soon/fast can we expect to see mods?
Seems like there is a lot dependent on mods.
Seems like there is a lot dependent on mods.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
If the game is as good as it appears to be, then it's a sure bet that the very still-to-this-day active mod community for SC4 will be embracing it in full. And if the game is indeed great and Paradox wants to sell cosmetic DLC then I'll buy every one of them just to say "Thank You". I'd easily and gladly pay $100 for a modern Simcity 4.
Still, I'm waiting until a week or two after release to make my decision on buying it or not. I've just been burned too harshly after Simcity 5 and Cities XXL.
Basileus777
Member
It's running on Unity, so I imagine modders will catch on quickly. Paradox also has a long history of being mod-friendly.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Yeah, it would be a huge boon. I'd look for it to be an option if Paradox ever makes a Cities Skylines 2, or maybe even in an expansion if it's even possible. It;'s certainly not possible for this release though.
Yeah, in a weird way it dampens my enthusiasm for the game knowing that DX12 is right around the corner. Will still pick it up.
exmachina64
Banned
How many developers have access to DX12 right now? You're looking at two plus years for any city sim to come with native DX12 support.
I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the big engine makers were planning to implement it pretty quickly. Don't know about Unity, but I thought Unreal was already pledging support quickly after release.
Yeah, I realize that, and I'm still excited for the game. I dunno, kind of weird knowing there's potentially huge game changer on the horizon. I feel like I won't get as invested in the game knowing that its sequel or a competitor will be vastly superior. And it's not like the usual upgraded graphics or better resolution that come with technological advancements, but something that would fundamentally make the game so much better.
What the reason for borderless windowed??
It uses Unity so it should have MSAA. This image for example:
Whats with the colour palette of this game seems very grey??
Just my hunch but I'm guessing that EA originally wanted this to be on consoles as a cross-gen title
Dumbed down simulation, much lower learning curve for new players, easy to navigate UI, etc.
exmachina64
Banned
Support at the engine level doesn't account for developers needing to familiarize themselves with a new API, provide QA support for a new version of the game, and redesign the game to take advantage of the new features.
We're on the same page, but what would I be playing instead while I'm waiting? Building the franchise will help mainstream gamers distinguish Cities: Skylines 2 from SimCity and Cities XXL.
It's still some time until it'll be implemented; Epic is working on it (Unity probably won't get there as fast) and it's still only slated for this fall and has been in development for a few months now: https://trello.com/c/BQFZD0pl/204-dx12-support . DX12 simply isn't quite ready yet and developers will need some additional time until it's any use.
The SC4 modding community is one of the biggest ego trains you can think of. Modder makes a thing (let's say a bench, for example) and people love it, it's a great prop, some of them want to use it in their custom plots. Okay sure. The problem (and the issue at the time) is that SC4 came out before broadband was that widespread.
So how do they go about the issue? You download my mod but you also need that guy's mod (it's probably just a collection of props, etc. rather than plots/lots/ploppables) to have that bench show up. But the same guy using that bench also makes, say, a neat grass texture, and everyone wants to use it.
Well, you can use it, but you can't include it (because egos get in the way, you have to download MY files to use it with HIS mod, also filespace at the time). This just gets out of hand because somewhere down the line you don't actually want to download any of these earlier mods, but they use resources from them, and they aren't bundled together because MY EGO and IMPOSED FILESIZE RESTRICTIONS turn into the current MO.
So now you have this stupid cascade of dependencies you need to download and - we go back the ego train of this modding community - someone has a bad day/conversation/someone shits in their cereal, and they pull all their mods off the internet. Well guess what, you're fucked if you wanted to download those sweet mods you heard about, because now you're just gonna get a bunch of red question marks all over the place.
It actually gets stupider and stupider the more you learn about it and I hope to god that CO has some way to enforce the mod community it so the people at SimTropolis/SC4Devotion/whatever else don't turn the modding community into some sickening stupid garbage pile of nested dependencies like they did with SC4 and you end up spending more time downloading things from the Steam Workshop (or finding out someone pulled them and you just missed it) than playing the game.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Yes, adding mods to SC4 can be a nightmarish endeavor. I have about a dozen mods on mine and I simply leave it at that now. At one point I attempted to add more mods and it quickly spiraled into a never ending other mod detective chase due to dependencies.
You bring up an excellent point.
I was in the Counter Strike modding community for a while around the same time (2003-2006/7 or so) and unlike that it was a matter of "well if you don't want people to use your shit, don't release it publicly. And if so, what are you doing?" It was ego/personality driven as well but mostly among peers, not as bad; they didn't mind if you used their shit as long as you gave credit.
Apparently reading the SA thread for C:SL uncovered the scary weird truth that the only thing worse than the SC4 modding community is the farming simulator modding community.
wit3tyg3r
Member
I'm kinda hoping that Steam Workshop integration will help circumnavigate those types of issues. Workshop makes applying mods as easy as it can possibly be. Sadly, there is a size restriction, so bigger mods will have to be loaded manually or with an external mod manager, but the idea of dependencies should be a minimal issue with Workshop.
Dependency spirals have becoming something of a tradition, despite the fact the SC4 modding community still exists to this day. The thing is it needs to be stamped out. It's a stupid practice that has no use anymore except to inflate people's egos. If you use someone's content, it should just be as simple as giving them credit for it. If you don't want to being distributed in such a manner then don't, and either stop modding or only giving it out to people privately.
The problem isn't the workshop makes installing mods easier or anything, it's that you could probably still create this dependency stupidity set of conditions on Steam Workshop (SC4Devotion had a similar 'tool' to help you track stuff you downloaded from them; the real sad fact is someone had to program that IMO), and it's just as tragic if someone pulls their shit without anyone saving a backup copy. Shit goes down the drain.
Maybe it's because I was big into SC4 mods, but I never had problems with dependencies. Most mods share similar dependencies, so after a while, you have them all. Dependencies also help when you have a lot of mods installed as the game does not need to load multiple copies of the same prop or texture. it is a mess to download all the different files but SC4Devotion, for example, has megapacks that include basically all popular props so you can just download those and be set for most stuff.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
This is all true.
I just played Simcity 4 some months backs and wanted to download mods to echance my experience.
I lost 2 fucking DAYS downloading all this shit so my city could look like that sweet super realistic screenshot of this 1 guy I saw browsing for mods. You want this, but then you need this shit, that at the same time needs this shit, etc, etc... I thought I downloaded everything right and still got some brown boxed with some of the buidlings becuase I was missing something. And yeah, some of them dont even exist. And then theres downloading form japanese websites because they have dependencies that you need for some scenery that is not japanese. The shit is bonkers.
Its a fucking nightmare I hope there are absolutely no dependencies or similar shit surrounding how you implement buildings in the game.
Roller coaster Tycoon 3's method, or heck RCT2 even better (becuase it was downloading a park and the custom scenery was installed with it) is a thousand times better than simcity 4. Yo do your 3D scenery/ride, you dont need any dependencies of anyone whatsoever.
Now that I know to model in 3D, maybe I even do my own buildings.
EatinOlives
Member
This dependency stuff sounds bonkers. I delved a bit into SC4 modding with the transportation system overhaul but IIRC that was just a big package I had to unpack with all the dependencies already in there. Apparently that's more of an exception rather than a rule with SC4 given everything I'm reading about the smaller mods and dependencies upon dependencies.
I do hope that Skylines gets this right. I'm REALLY excited about this game for some reason. I already have it preordered
I do hope that Skylines gets this right. I'm REALLY excited about this game for some reason. I already have it preordered
Is there really any enforcing element on Steam Workshop, especially for each game? Cause I could probably just upload a plain .txt file up and if I don't get caught it could stay there forever. The same, if there's no real overseer, is you can just end up with the stupid dependency system all over again.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Traditional full screen mode takes over the entire computer. Directs all available resources to the game and locks you from access to the OS itself. While it has its benefits, when the game hangs, you ain't getting back into your computer until you shut it down forcibly.
Border less windowed mode or desktop fullscreen mode or OS X's fullscreen space mode is exactly what it sounds like. It's a window with no border set to the size of the display. This allows you to retain control over the OS and multitask without problems. If the game hangs you can force quit it without losing your uptime or unsaved documents or whatever. It also works much better with screen recording software for people who like to stream or LP on YouTube.
It's the preferred way of doing fullscreen in the modern computing age as the benefits of the old method have become so small with today's powerful machines that it's really more of a drawback to use the old method these days.
Unity I believe will use border less windowed mode automatically. I know it does on OS X. I'm pretty sure it does it on Windows too.
Steam workshop integrated games generally are designed to make sure the content works as a single package. If it is missing stuff, it should not work properly, or at all. It then depends on the community to root out non working mods and downvote them. So far I don't think dependencies are a thing in any of the Steam workshop enabled games I own. If there is, I would like to know.
There are large 'overhaul' style mods in like Rome 2 that have to be split up because of the filesize (it's a big enough mod to be split into 6-7 pieces). Not sure it's headed in that direction but I am actually dreading the SC4 mod community getting their hooks into it and forcing it to be the norm. (or at least trying)