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Rafael Albuquerque reveals controversial variant cover for Batgirl #41
- Thread starter Messi
- Start date
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I am a dude and I would make the same face as her. The Joker is a scary mofo.
NullPointer
Member
She looks terrified to the core while the Joker looks like his classic psychotic murderous self. Its a great cover, and would be even if it was Bruce or Batman losing their shit with tears of terror.
SilentRacoon
Member
Is it really hard to believe a reaction of fright when she is being held hostage by a fucking psycho?
Really like the style it has going for it, adds a very grim vibe to the overall piece.
That's really great artwork; the Joker looks rather terrifying there. I don't think the cover is glorifying rape or trying to make women seem weak, but it's certainly not a lighthearted cover. Given what the cover is referencing story-wise I can see why Batgirl would be reacting that way.
This is a character that has spent years in a wheel chair because of being beaten by the Joker. She finally has another run as Batgirl, and this is her own book. I do think it's a bit offensive that the character is portrated as such on the cover to her OWN book considering her history.
just my two cents...
They just referenced it last month in the new book and in the secret origins book last week.
bodyboarder
Member
Awesome variant.
To everyone going "lol how is this offensive those dang SJWs just want to get offended."
The cover is an homage to the time Barbara was shot in the spine, stripped naked, and sexually abused by the Joker while he took pictures of the acts to show to her father. As much as I love Killing Joke as a story, genuinely thinking it's one of the greatest comics DC ever put out, it's the absolute nadir of Barbara, treated not as a character but as a prop for big tough men to stand around looking grim and determined, where she has no say, no views no weight to the plot besides how her misfortune affects the men in her life. The new Batgirl is being written with a trendy, feminist viewpoint, so highlighting one of the clearest examples of "Women in Refrigerators" in comic book history strikes me as counter-intuitive to that goal. Not to mention, Barbara is being depicted as weak, quivering victim. Helpless and crying in the hands of the Joker. You would never see this happening to Batman, Nightwing, hell, not even Damian Wayne, and that kid's 10.
Granted, the new run of Batgirl has been a fucking trainwreck, with the transphobic mess that was Dagger Type.
The cover is an homage to the time Barbara was shot in the spine, stripped naked, and sexually abused by the Joker while he took pictures of the acts to show to her father. As much as I love Killing Joke as a story, genuinely thinking it's one of the greatest comics DC ever put out, it's the absolute nadir of Barbara, treated not as a character but as a prop for big tough men to stand around looking grim and determined, where she has no say, no views no weight to the plot besides how her misfortune affects the men in her life. The new Batgirl is being written with a trendy, feminist viewpoint, so highlighting one of the clearest examples of "Women in Refrigerators" in comic book history strikes me as counter-intuitive to that goal. Not to mention, Barbara is being depicted as weak, quivering victim. Helpless and crying in the hands of the Joker. You would never see this happening to Batman, Nightwing, hell, not even Damian Wayne, and that kid's 10.
Granted, the new run of Batgirl has been a fucking trainwreck, with the transphobic mess that was Dagger Type.
First, I think that's great artwork. Second, comic covers are hardly ever meant to be interpreted literally. In this case, the villain that infamously tortured and crippled her is being featured in a story arc, and this pays homage to that old story - arguably the most crucial story regarding the character of all time. It shows the fear deep inside that Barbara may still have regarding that encounter, one which she suffered intense post traumatic stress disorder over.
I'm all for eliminating the blatant misogynistic imagery and portrayals often shown in comics, and reducing the use of those that are unintentional and merely insensitive, or intentional but not thoughtful (shock value). I think people are overreacting to this one. Longtime comic readers more familiar with old Batman comics probably had a different reaction, by and large, to this image than newer readers. That's just my guess, anyways.
I'm all for eliminating the blatant misogynistic imagery and portrayals often shown in comics, and reducing the use of those that are unintentional and merely insensitive, or intentional but not thoughtful (shock value). I think people are overreacting to this one. Longtime comic readers more familiar with old Batman comics probably had a different reaction, by and large, to this image than newer readers. That's just my guess, anyways.
Saintguine
Member
Joker is a massive dick. More at 11.
Also, the Joker has done far worse in The Killing Joke.
Also, the Joker has done far worse in The Killing Joke.
The cover is referencing The Killing Joke
Supermanisdead
Member
Killing Joke led to the rebirth of Babs as Oracle, a role in which she gained more attention, fans and goodwill than she ever had as the ditzy, young Batgirl. It's THE Batgirl story, imo. The "women in refrigerators" comment would be more apt if it actually ended up affecting Batman and Joker in a larger way instead of transitioning into the Oracle plotline. That comment would honestly be more fitting for the original Death In The Family storyline.
A Link to the Past
Banned
The issue is that DC doesn't make an equivalent cover art featuring The Joker placing Batman in a state of submission, with Batman's face radiating utter terror
In addition to what Weiss said
In addition to what Weiss said
That same new run that has a villain using the imagery from the killing joke vs her
The sticking point with people upset about this is that it isn't Batman, it would never be Batman crying and terrified and helpless on the cover.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
True, but that wasn't actually planned beforehand. Hell, Killing Joke wasn't supposed to be in-continuity. Moore didn't write that thinking "this will be a catalyst for the character to grow from later," because that wasn't even supposed to happen. If the story was written with the intent/knowledge that it'd be used as a transition point, that'd be one thing, and then that response would carry more weight. But it wasn't envisioned or executed like that, and that's what Weiss is getting at, I think.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I think the most offensive thing here is that some people consider Alan Moore a good writer.
His style never jived with me.
His style never jived with me.
NullPointer
Member
If I saw a cover with Batman in tears from sheer terror I wouldn't think it crazy or unusual. I'd actually be surprised if that hasn't happened already in some form or another.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's a big if
It would never be Wonder Woman either. I'd say there is more characteristics at play than just the gender.
plasmawave
Banned
A Link to the Past
Banned
I wonder how many female superheroes have sexual assault/rape storylines
Because I would argue that, simply from a scenaristic/comic history viewpoint, Batman doesn't have that kind of relationship with the joker. But it was shown he did have cover when he was in a position of helplessness
The imagery with batgirl doesn't come out of left field for me. I understand the general paranoia versus comics some have, I dislike heavily a lot of female designs. But in this case, it is thematically appropriate, and mostly a nod to an incredibly famous part of the history of the character as a whole. If the big question is "Is this cover problematic ?" I'd say no.
The complaing of "Batman didn't have the exact same pose" to me is a bit shallow. Of course not, he's a different character. I would say I wouldn't be against it at all though. Like I mentionned earlier, I'd rather have more super heroes show their psychological weaknesses more openly rather than the stern stoic 2cool4u attitude we've been used to
NullPointer
Member
I associate Batman, as a universe, with psychological terror, a tool used and expressed by Batman's foes as well as by Batman himself. Has Bats never been brought to such states by The Scarecrow or Joker or anybody else in that world? THAT would be surprising to me.
It's a shame that Nu52 undid the Oracle. That was an amazing character. As Batgirl she's a pale imitation of Batman, literally the female version of an existing character. As Oracle she was something new and interesting while still showing that she was quite capable of fighting (even from her chair) and that ultimately her intelligence was her best weapon.
not_so_special
Banned
you find offensive that some people liked one of the most awarded comic writers ? the creator of watchmen and v for vendetta?
i see
Not for a Batfamily member, no.
I will quote myself again because I love to see myself talk:
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
But he has been shown crying or helpless or other grim images on the cover... It's just that he hasn't been drawn in this exact way. People make it sound like every batman cover ever has him as some badass hero. There have been plenty of him looking defeated, crying, emotional, or whatever. Him and pretty much everyone in the series has been affected and deeply fucked up from various traumatic experiences. He and others aren't portrayed as unscathed or unaffected by those traumas but rather usually harps on how it continually haunts them.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's not a question of "in the comics." It's the point that Batgirl is advertised as psychologically terrorized, and Batman is not.
maquiladora
Member
I'll say this, there is something genuinely unsettling about that cover. The expression on her face is really haunting.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Batman has been advertised before as psychologically terrorized beforehand as was established in this thread.
plasmawave
Banned
NullPointer
Member
And he's never been shown as terrorized on a cover before? Really?
pokeystaples
Banned
Excellence in commenting.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Not in nearly the same way, no. As another user posed it, they could have made her defiant to The Joker as a subversion of the plotline and still have made an effective cover.
Yeah he really nailed the look of fear. Its real unsettling.
Are...are we talking about the same batman here ?
Because Psychological Terror/Trauma is pretty much his long middle name (and not talking only about the dead parents here. Shiet son, he gets fucking terrified when fighting the court of owls the first time)
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Have you ever read a batman comic?
WrenchNinja
Member
Mr. MY PARENTS ARE DEEEEEAAAAD?
not_so_special
Banned
it matters anymore? im asking seriously
this isnt about batman people,the sooner you understand this the sooner u will bait out of this conversation,its sad but its how things works now
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Variants of what? Batgirl? That context really isn't important. This is very much is art style but this is his first batgirl cover.
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