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I just want to get this out there to the Gaffers that are as yet unexposed to this game: Destiny is a very consumer-unfriendly product.

Before I go into details, I also want to add that I’ve had a lot of fun playing it. For anyone who loves a good sci-fi setting and fps gameplay, Destiny is a blast. And it’s absolutely because of everything that this game does right that makes what it does wrong all the more frustrating.

First of all I’m going to go into my own main gripe which is probably different from most seasoned players, which is that there is no matchmaking for what is essentially the meat and bones aspect of the game: raids and nightfall strikes. To those unfamiliar with the game, let me put it this way: If you don’t have five friends who already own this game, you can either

- Tell five people to buy the game, or try to make a lot of buddies online and organize them into clan.

Or

- Not be able to play the best parts of this game.

So why do Bungie and Activision not have matchmaking for the best parts of the game? I’m just going to go on a whim and say that they expect you to tell your friends to buy it and play with you. And if you’re not telling your friends to buy this game, then you’re probably going to end up unable to play content that you’ve already paid for (which is pretty much impossible to do on your own).

Now as for the gripes of more dedicated players, the one I hear most is that the developers are more focused on closing player-friendly loopholes then they are fixing bugs with the game. Why is this important? Well because Destiny is designed so that long after people have played every bit of content that the game has to offer, they will grind over and over again just for a slim chance to get a really good item or to level up the items that they already own. It’s actually more fun than it sounds. But this grindfest is so carefully manicured to maximize the player’s time with the game to the point that when players actually outsmart the system and find out how to get something faster than how the developers wanted them to get it, the devs patch the game immediately. And once again on a whim, I think it’s because they want the players spending as much time as possible with the game, and to not be distracted playing something like Dying Light or Bloodborne once the next expansion comes out. But it’s kind of a slap in the face when you get kicked out of a server or die from of a bug in a raid, because you know that there has been more effort on fixing the game to be played the way someone else wants you to play it then to be played without so many flaws.

And to the uninitiated player, the first expansion pack was pretty lame. I’m pretty sure it was all on-disc content (someone correct me if I’m wrong) because I never saw it download to my system, and I can’t recall seeing any new levels in the game. In fact I honestly can’t recall anything that the expansion added, except for a few missions that took place in areas that I think I’d already been to.

And for the cherry on top, this game is always online. So I hope you have a good connection or else it’s going to get very frustrating.

I hope Bungie starts to have a change of heart to these issues. They've made a pretty good game that has a lot of potential with future additions. But until they start addressing some of these complaints, I would say 'buyer, beware'.

 

[Falk]

now imagine vanilla wow and needing to convince 39 friends to buy the game

actually dont, irl friends in raids usually lead to disappointment and suffering

 

[outunderthestars]

The lack of matchmaking made me sell the game as I don't have any friends who play games.

 

[blackjaw]

now imagine vanilla wow and needing to convince 39 friends to buy the game

actually dont, irl friends in raids usually lead to disappointment and suffering

40 man AQ...brutal

 

[jadedm17]

The game is a mess on many levels but there stance on matchmaking is fine : I enrage plenty playing PVP with randoms, I couldn't imagine PVE. There's plenty of ways to find people including GAF so I have no issue with this.

 

[jediyoshi]

So why do Bungie and Activision not have matchmaking for the best parts of the game? I’m just going to go on a whim and say that they expect you to tell your friends to buy it and play with you. And if you’re not telling your friends to buy this game, then you’re probably going to end up unable to play content that you’ve already paid for (which is pretty much impossible to do on your own).

And what's your view on what they actually say is the case for this?

 

[v1perz53]

now imagine vanilla wow and needing to convince 39 friends to buy the game

actually dont, irl friends in raids usually lead to disappointment and suffering

40 man AQ...brutal

To be fair, the guild system and in general gaming on a PC with in-game chat channels and keyboards for easy text chatting, as well as tons of ways to meet people who played (including dedicated and very active forums) made it a lot easier to meet 39 people to raid with in Vanilla WoW than it is to meet people that you constantly play with and eventually raid with in Destiny.

 

[345triangle]

i love destiny but i have to say it's pretty weird that i'm almost at level 30 after about 50 hours of play and yet haven't ever even attempted a nightfall or raid. i do understand their reasoning for the raids at least.

if anyone in asia-pacific timezone wants to link up let me know!

 

[DJ_Lae]

Sounds like they've fixed nothing since I last played it. I really enjoyed the game mechanics, enough that I kept playing in spite of its glaring flaws for far too long, but once they broke exotics I decided I was out for good.

Maybe they'll figure things out for Destiny 2. Then again, if the expansions for Destiny sell well (are they?), they'll have no incentive to make a more interesting campaign or add matchmaking options or do much of anything but give us the same stuff all over again with new items and currencies to collect.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

The Order was finally laid to rest to bring up this oldie-but-a-goodie?

Spoiler

Relax, JK

I can agree that, pain they can be with a good team, Nightfalls should have matchmaking (or the following suggested solution).

But Raids need something better than matchmaking. I'm unfamiliar with similarly-styled games and MMOs, so I don't have a particular solution in mind, but I've seen some mention of in-game LFG (?) boards that players get together through.

I don't know if consumer unfriendly is the right word though. Mismanaged, definitely. As you say, the minor exploits (or things like the cave) taking precedent over match/activity breaking bugs in patches isn't the best message.

 

[345triangle]

And to the uninitiated player, the first expansion pack was pretty lame. I’m pretty sure it was all on-disc content (someone correct me if I’m wrong) because I never saw it download to my system, and I can’t recall seeing any new levels in the game. In fact I honestly can’t recall anything that the expansion added, except for a few missions that took place in areas that I think I’d already been to..

i don't think it was great value for money, exactly, but it wasn't on the disc — the game's had some pretty hefty updates since coming out, and much of the dark below needed to be pushed out to everyone even if they didn't buy it.

 

[Serrato]

now imagine vanilla wow and needing to convince 39 friends to buy the game

actually dont, irl friends in raids usually lead to disappointment and suffering

The difference is that you could make a guild and all that... But really it's comparing an apple to a 10 years old apple. Wow has now matchmaking for raids since what, 2 years ago? Its piss easy mode, but still.

 

[Sayad]

I've been playing the game for a while now, and I've yet to play any raid lol.... Well, my friend's brother invited me while they were fighting what I think is the boss, I died, they beat him and that's pretty much all my raid experience.

 

[jediyoshi]

To be fair, the guild system and in general gaming on a PC with in-game chat channels and keyboards for easy text chatting, as well as tons of ways to meet people who played (including dedicated and very active forums) made it a lot easier to meet 39 people to raid with in Vanilla WoW than it is to meet people that you constantly play with and eventually raid with in Destiny.

So what's the distinction you're pointing out with the existing clan system, clan boards, and active forums that exist for grouping?

The difference is that you could make a guild and all that...

Difference?

 

[outunderthestars]

The game is a mess on many levels but there stance on matchmaking is fine : I enrage plenty playing PVP with randoms, I couldn't imagine PVE. There's plenty of ways to find people including GAF so I have no issue with this.

Don't really see how posting in threads on a message board, adding people, and then trying to get them all online at the same time is considered a suitable replacement for instant matchmaking.

 

[down 2 orth]

And what's your view on what they actually say is the case for this?

I think the reason I remember reading was because if everyone dies in a raid, then the raid would have to be restarted with a whole new group of people.

And I remember thinking that sounded more like an excuse, because it wouldn't be hard to make it so that everyone stays together after dying, and if a couple people bail out, they could let newcomers take their place like when someone bails in the middle of a strike.

 

[jediyoshi]

Don't really see how posting in threads on a message board, adding people, and then trying to get them all online at the same time is considered a suitable replacement for instant matchmaking.

Then if those people were so inclined, they'd use the active web matchmaking services others have created.

 

[Astral Dog]

millions of people disagree

 

[Solid Samus]

Then if those people were so inclined, they'd use the active web matchmaking services others have created.

I mean, people complained about friend codes so, if this is the sort of active web matchmaking service I'm envisioning (as in, browser based pages that queue you up with people who enter their PS/Xbox IDs?), I don't see why this has enough merit to put it anywhere near the same level of usability (much less visibility) as tried and true matchmaking systems.

millions of people disagree

it's literally unheard of, the idea that millions of people could have ever purchased and used a product that's arguably consumer unfriendly
especially in the games industry
what kinda crazy world you think we're living in op


edit: dat poes law

 

[anothertech]

Agree completely about matchmaking. I have 7 friends WITH the game. And I've played half way through 1 raid because our schedules never line up.

I would play raids weekly if there were any decent matchmaking for them. But I've had the game since launch and haven't been able to enjoy the best part of it even once.

So sad.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Well my rant is in the OT.

 

[Dahbomb]

it's literally unheard of, the idea that millions of people could have ever purchased and used a product that's arguably consumer unfriendly

what kinda crazy world you think we're living in op

Yeah it's completely unheard of that people would purchase/use a product that most agreed was consumer unfriendly.

 

[Effigenius]

I just recently got the game on xb1 to play with work friends. I am trying to level up quickly, so I need to do the weekly raid that gives you strange coins. So I logged in today for the first time in a week to do that and.... Oh guess what? The weekly challenge that is part of the game is using the expansion's strike this week, so I am locked out of the content I paid for and just don't get to play the game this week. Thanks a fucking lot, Bungie. I would have bought the expansion if I thought it was worth it, but it looks like a terrible value, so I passed. Bt since I didn't fork over an extra $20 for their pitiful amount of content, Bungie doesn't give a shit about me.

And where are the trophies/achievements for the expansion?!

 

[kcxiv]

now imagine vanilla wow and needing to convince 39 friends to buy the game

actually dont, irl friends in raids usually lead to disappointment and suffering

shit, i played everquest when ther was 72 man raids, and if you had 50 pepole some raids yhou werent goign to do unless you were in an elite guild.

 

[Klossen]

Destiny feels like a product made by psychologists working at marketing section rather than actual game designers. Game is built from ground up to slightly reward the player constantly, and further entice the player with long-term goals. Social conformity plays in, as a big part of the game is being ahead of your friends so you can earn bragging rights.

Destiny's goal is not to please the player, but first and foremost to keep the player playing. Everything else is secondary. In many ways, it functions the same gambling addiction does - constantly play in hopes of a reward rather than playing for the sake of playing.

 

[pantsmith]

The only difference between you and the vast majority of people who have completed the raid is that those other people put in the practically non-existent effort it takes to find a group on any number of the resources available.

Gaf has a thread right now you could use to find a group. There are multiple websites exclusively dedicated to finding a group. My first time through was organized in-game... on the ps3.

While there are major improvements Bungie could make to help groups form themselves, I dont fault them for wanting to design the raids for groups who took that minimal effort to organize themselves. Matchmaking is not the answer.

 

[Mike Works]

To those unfamiliar with the game, let me put it this way: If you don’t have five friends who already own this game, you can either

- Tell five people to buy the game, or try to make a lot of buddies online and organize them into clan.

Or

- Not be able to play the best parts of this game.

Or you can do what everyone else does and find people to play in the GAF Destiny thread or, if you're not a member of GAF, go to DestinyLFG.net and find a group that wants to play within like a minute.

 

[Solid Samus]

Yeah it's completely unheard of that people would purchase/use a product that most agreed was consumer unfriendly.

could you post a few more examples? ;p

 

[kcxiv]

people can also go on forums and make friends there ask if people are playing. i see threads on alot of forums, not even gaming related that have a destiny thread so players can hook up and kill shit.

Quite being anti social and look around.

but yeah, im pretty anti social myself, but i can be social when need be. lol

 

[panty]

I disagree. I can see why people are pissed off at raids and lack of matchmaking but I can understand why they did it.

I have 200 hours on Destiny and the raids can be hard and take time. Now imagine you play with randoms and I can promise people would quit and just fuck it up on purpose. Ive seen it with strikes and weeklys, people just leave after youve spent a good amount of time on something.

I had probably 2 friends who played Destiny. Ive gathered my "group" from different message boards and now I have a solid 15 person group I play Destiny with on an almost daily basis. It's not hard to find gamers like you from forums etc.

Hopefully they keep nightfall and raids out of matchmaking. They already fucked Weeklys.

 

[Klossen]

Edit; nevermind. Above poster explained my question.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I guess I can see that you think matchmaking for end game content should be there for those who want it...but trust me when I say you wouldn't have a very fun experience with it. There should be better looking for group options in game though. You shouldn't have to go outside the game to find a group.

 

[MildSoss]

Or you can do what everyone else does and find people to play in the GAF Destiny thread or, if you're not a member of GAF, go to DestinyLFG.net and find a group that wants to play within like a minute.

That's what i'm wondering each time someone complains on here, especially Gaf of all places. You will always find people to play with in the OT, it's really not all that hard. lol

 

[Dahbomb]

I really don't understand why people are so staunchly against MM services in Destiny.

It's like... if you don't want to pair up with randoms online then don't pair up with randoms online through MM. Use whatever resources you are currently using.

For people who want MM, let them have MM. They shouldn't have to go outside the game to have a basic service like this.


All I see is people lapping up whatever PR lip service Bungie feeds them instead of respecting the idea that a game could have actual options to accommodate all types of users.

 

[xplicitone]

Their current matchmaking system would ruin the game if it had it for raids, plain and simple. I can barely get good Weekly Heroic (newest addition to matchmaking) teams.

You get people who
1)idle on purpose
2)kill you and don't revive you = ends with you being booted
3)you or friend can get booted and can't get back in because someone matchmade in your place
4)suck really bad. (lowest priority since that's inevitable)

It makes for a terrible experience even with heroic Weekly. Raids require much much much more teamwork and communication. Current matchmaking would turn just about everyone off on the game.

Edit: they need a smart vote/kick system and the ability to turn off matchmaking.

They need an in game lfg hub at the tower, AND they need am "announcement" feature to send a ping to friends that's separate from psn messages. "looking to do heroic weekly" pops up for a few seconds and you can just choose to ignore. Otherwise it'll be next to friends roster in a tab called announcements.

 

[ERMint13]

Hopefully they keep nightfall and raids out of matchmaking. They already fucked Weeklys.

That's how I feel. Last weekly I had double the kills of the closest guy and almost triple of the third. Both died repeatedly....it would have been less of a hassle solo.


You can't vote out people who go afk either. Sucks to get halfway through then they go afk because they have a no dying during strike bounty or just want easy loot.

It takes a minute to find a group on lfg or the gaf thread. It's a non issue for many players.

 

[panty]

I really don't understand why people are so staunchly against MM services in Destiny.

It's like... if you don't want to pair up with randoms online then don't pair up with randoms online through MM. Use whatever resources you are currently using.

For people who want MM, let them have MM. They shouldn't have to go outside the game to have a basic service like this.


All I see is people lapping up whatever PR lip service Bungie feeds them instead of respecting the idea that a game could have actual options to accommodate all types of users.

I wish there would be an option for it. They already brought mm to weeklys and fucked them. We used to run them with a friend and sometimes I liked to solo them. Now those options are gone.

That's how I feel. Last weekly I had double the kills of the closest guy and almost triple of the third. Both died repeatedly....it would have been less of a hassle solo.


You can't vote out people who go afk either. Sucks to get halfway through then they go afk because they have a no dying during strike bounty or just want easy loot.

It takes a minute to find a group on lfg or the gaf thread. It's a non issue for many players.

Exactly.

 

[Valnen]

I really don't understand why people are so staunchly against MM services in Destiny.

It's like... if you don't want to pair up with randoms online then don't pair up with randoms online through MM. Use whatever resources you are currently using.

For people who want MM, let them have MM.


All I see is people lapping up whatever PR lip service Bungie feeds them instead of respecting the idea that a game could have actual options to accommodate all types of users.

I can't see them not having matchmaking in Destiny 2 for raids. There's a reason WoW has raid finder. There's a reason you can queue for coil in FFXIV. Destiny is a step backwards.

 

[stephen08]

I will never ever agree that the more punishing activities need matchmaking. Nightfalls and Raids are designed to be the toughest possible challenges in the game and if they were made to accommodate matchmaking that would either result in frustration with randoms or their design losing some teeth.

Not having matchmaking adds a barrier to entry. It ensures that people will be serious about the activity enough to seek out other like minded people to complete them and possibly fail along the way. Imagine how GAF would be a different place if you could use any e-mail to join up and do so instantly like other websites. You don't think those barriers affect the population that do pass those hurdles?

And yeah, I understand some complaints like online only or that you can't devote lots of time to these aspects or organizing them but I have very little sympathy for that. There are so many games available. Some are single player only. Some have no online whatsoever. Expecting every game to be everything is too much.

I'm fine with Destiny being an online focused game and the high level activities having a certain requirement of the participants.

 

[down 2 orth]

Hopefully they keep nightfall and raids out of matchmaking. They already fucked Weeklys.

Matchmaking is not the answer.

What would the problem be with matchmaking if it's optional? I mean, if you don't want to do it, then just play with your friends. And while we're on the subject, Bungie could let you disable random people joining your team too.

 

[Dahbomb]

I wish there would be an option for it. They already brought mm to weeklys and fucked them. We used to run them with a friend and sometimes I liked to solo them. Now those options are gone.

That pretty much describes Bungie when it comes to Destiny as a whole.

One step forward and two steps backwards. They try their best to limit player options as much as possible like the game's already lackluster social infrastructure.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Don't really see how posting in threads on a message board, adding people, and then trying to get them all online at the same time is considered a suitable replacement for instant matchmaking.

There's matchmaking for PvP, Vanguard Strikes, now recently Weekly Heroic strikes. Bungie really wants Raids & NF's to be intimate experiences. The game isn't some huge deep mechanic filled type of play, but teamwork and communication play a huge fucking part for those activities. Setting up a crew by yourself or joining one really does make you feel secure in that you have the power to choose who you want to play with. AFK'ers in this game are a huge burden already that will just compound the problem immensely for 2 certain activties which really does require your input. Creating a team and joining up together to beat those activities gives an extra boost of comradarie.

The game focuses on you as the player to start building a core of gamers/players from the start. Matchmaking from the other activities are you recruiting tools, liked playing, friend up and see where it leads. Players expect that everything given from other games and now has become the norm, now must be shoehorned in. The game might not have the internal ability but we as Gamers circumvent it and have created multiple external ways to overcome it.

 

[Afrocious]

I find it hilarious how Monster Hunter 4 has a better online infrastructure for people to play with each other than what Destiny has.

 

[Instro]

It's an Activision game. I'd be shocked if they did anything consumer friendly.

 

[Dahbomb]

I find it hilarious how Monster Hunter 4 has a better online infrastructure for people to play with each other than what Destiny has.

Most games of its type have a better online infrastructure than Destiny does.

 

[panty]

I find it hilarious how Monster Hunter 4 has a better online infrastructure for people to play with each other than what Destiny has.

No it doesnt. Just look up, theres a great post about mm.

You people that complain, have you ever played raids?

 

[Armaros]

So what's the distinction you're pointing out with the existing clan system, clan boards, and active forums that exist for grouping?



Difference?

You could keep all of the communication in-game without opening forums and etc. Those were extras.

Can you say the same for Destiny? Where you couldn't even speak to strangers in the hub zones?

Go without DestinyGAF or DestinyLFG services and see how 'sociable' Destiny is.

 

[Mephala]

I disagree. I can see why people are pissed off at raids and lack of matchmaking but I can understand why they did it.

I have 200 hours on Destiny and the raids can be hard and take time. Now imagine you play with randoms and I can promise people would quit and just fuck it up on purpose. Ive seen it with strikes and weeklys, people just leave after youve spent a good amount of time on something.

I had probably 2 friends who played Destiny. Ive gathered my "group" from different message boards and now I have a solid 15 person group I play Destiny with on an almost daily basis. It's not hard to find gamers like you from forums etc.

Hopefully they keep nightfall and raids out of matchmaking. They already fucked Weeklys.

The first time I did weekly heroic strike with randoms involved me carrying 2 Lv32 assholes that just danced at the beginning. The inability to kick assholes like that is annoying as hell.

My second experience was some of the worse lag I've ever seen in PvE which was fixed when one of the players randomly dropped out. The game didn't add another player again until the very end. The lucky guy didn't even make it into the boss room before we hit the rewards screen. :\

 

[Afrocious]

No it doesnt. Just look up, theres a great post about mm.

You people that complain, have you ever played raids?

I have. Bungie could learn a thing or two from Capcom, which is so backwards.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Bungie just added matchmaking to the Weekly Heroic Strikes, so they're making progress. Nightfall likely wont have matchmaking unless they implement an anti-grief system and/or modify its difficulty settings, which would defeat the whole purpose. In these strikes, players have to manually revive you, and you can imagine how much abuse that's been taking already when they choose not to or purposely get you killed.

Raid matchmaking probably isn't going to happen (and anyone who has raided on the harder difficulties with unsuccessful PUGs understands why), but it looks like they'll be expanding the "social" features of the game to address that.

Otherwise, I agree with the title. Bungie has a tendency to patch stuff nobody asked for (a recent patch nerfed weapons nobody wanted nerfed because "too many people were using them" or some bullshit), and then they're be crass about it in their updates. Meanwhile, real balance issues and bugs run around untouched - some have been around since the alpha - and nobody knows when or if they're going to be addressed.