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Bloodborne |OT+++| ...and so the Nightly Hunt continues

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Okay I've reached a brick wall here guys I need some advice- How do I defeat that "Cainhurst Hunter" at the end of Eileen's sidequest?

That repeating pistol of his is doing some ungodly damage to me.
 
Heel said:
Do the Uncanny weapons etc. from the Chalices count towards the weapons achievement?
Eileen
never appeared in my playthrough, so I'll have to find it in the dungeons.
Click to expand...
You just need every type of weapon regardless of version (Normal, Uncanny, Lost)
 
Chaos2Frozen said:
Okay I've reached a brick wall here guys I need some advice- How do I defeat that "Cainhurst Hunter" at the end of Eileen's sidequest?

That repeating pistol of his is doing some ungodly damage to me.
Click to expand...

Bait him into using Chikage 2h mode. Go outside of entrance and watch his health deplete.
 
Kamina said:
He is pretty easy. Although in NG+ i had him one shot me whith his magic area-attack...
Click to expand...

This attack sure is awful, yeah.
I beat him on my first try in NG+, though. He didn't stand a damn chance. I wrecked his ass with my cane :D

EDIT: Ah my bad, not in NG+, I just remembered that I killed him like that in another NG. Derp. Forget it, lol.
 
Chaos2Frozen said:
Okay I've reached a brick wall here guys I need some advice- How do I defeat that "Cainhurst Hunter" at the end of Eileen's sidequest?

That repeating pistol of his is doing some ungodly damage to me.
Click to expand...
I had him/her follow me to the stairs. There i spammed poison knifes and the item which prevents healing. Every now and then I used a spear type weapon to poke the enemy a little to support the poison effect and voila, dead.
It's important to keep the distance because he/she can stagger you easily and a visceral attack will one-shot you.
 
How the FUCK do you get past the
brain guys
in Mergo's loft? It's just a goddamn explosion of frenzy status no matter what you do or don't do.
 
Beelzebufo said:
So your argument is that the vial system is good because it rewards you for wasting time farming vials and souls, and punishes you for just trying to beat bosses over and over?
Click to expand...

Nope. You get rewarded just by going through the levels and killing enemies while taking minimal damage rather than just legging it to the boss and skipping out all the enemies, which is an issue with these games as it's so easy to do. Limited Estus Flasks which can only be gained through resetting all the enemies actually encourage that behaviour. That's another flaw with that system.

Your second point then counteracts your first one, since a greater emphasis on regaining health through attacking would exist if you reduced the number of available blood vials to Estus-levels :p
Click to expand...

It doesn't contradict because the issue is not the number of vials but people complaining that they don't respawn like Estus Flasks. The number of Blood Vials is higher than Estus Flasks because it's a faster paced game with no shileds to absorb damage. You probably will get hit more in Bloodborne than in Dark Souls, espeically if you played a tank with a tower shield. And sure a greater emphasis would be put on attacking to regain health if you had less Blood Vials but as it's a risk/reward scenario and can get you killed, putting more empasis on it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. I think they've got the balance spot on and that word "balance" is very important. There's positives and negatives for both systems but for Bloodborne, which plays very differently to the Souls games I think they've made the right choice.


Compared to the Estus system the blood vials do two things:

[*]Place reliance on the amount of consumables you have rather than your own skill during boss battles (since you can carry so many vials if you put in the time)
Click to expand...

Not true as the amount of health items is still limited and it's a faster paced action game with no blocking, outside of a well times parry, so you do end up taking more damage in boss fights. It's not like Demon's Souls where you can carry everything you have with you.

[*]When the player actually faces a difficult fight or area, they have to backtrack and engage in tedious busywork.
Click to expand...

Not if you spend some souls on buying some vials whenever you have some spare, it's just some (very) basic resource management. There's also enemies on many of the levels which drop plentiful vials. You're therefore encouraged to face the big enemies and the werewovles to stock up on vials rather than just legging it past them each time. Another example of risk/reward which this entire game is based on.

It's a solid lose-lose situation. It makes the game easier in all the ways you don't want, but also makes it more difficult in the worst possible way (grinding for vials). It's not like this should ruin the game for anybody, but let's not pretend its not a huge step back after Dark Souls.
Click to expand...

I feel it's more appropriate mechanic for the game that Bloodborne is. You have higher number of healing items than Dark Souls because it's a faster paced game with no blocking. But it's not endless like Demon's Souls so it's more balanced. It also works with the risk/reward of regaining health while attacking as that risk/reward would virtually disappear if Blood Vials just respawned like Estus Flasks.

I'm not saying it's a perfect system, of course it has flaws. If you constantly leg it to the boss and continually fail you can end up running out of vials if you've done nothing to counter that by buying some or killing enemies that drop them. That can happen in plenty of RPGs and can be frustrating but that's kind of what these games are like, frustration is there so the satisfaction is even higher when you overcome it. Thery've specifically mentioned that's the kind of philosophy that these games are made with, people might prefer the ease of respawning health but I think I've pointed out that the Blood Vial mechanic has clearly been thought about and does have specific benefits and reasons behind it being implemented. If people prefer respawning health because it's something they don't have to worry about fine, but to say it's flat out bad design is just wrong.

Jonm1010 said:
This is my last post on the subject because I think its gone on too long. But you put together a really well thought out post so I didn't want it to go unnoticed.


1.) Blood vials are concentrated mostly in a few areas. Mostly toward the beginning of the game. There are sections of the game where blood vials are sparse or non-existent. still they are bountiful and easy to get, just tedious. Requiring a trek to earlier areas to stock up or to HD to buy some more. The plentifulness goes contradictory to the notion that it entices players to play more resourceful. If something is in abundance it diminishes risk aversion due to running out. As you yourself say it is never really an issue having them or getting them.

2.)Estus flasks would likely actually increase the reliability of the regeneration mechanic because you can't get more from enemies. What you have is what you have. I also think what you are saying is a way the estus flask system keeps the challenge going. As you say it isn't replinishable til a bonfire or boss defeat. With Vials, especially in an area with lots of vial drops, you can just spam vials and get them back. So there is actually a decrease in the risk of areas. Making the trip in-between lamps and finding bosses and shortcuts easier. Resource worry only comes in in areas where they are light on vials. Even then the plentifulness diminishes the effect. Outside of the beginning of the game I don't remember really even dying once from an enemy in areas with lots of human enemies or beasts that drop vials regularly. Because you can take damage, use 1-2 vials, kill the guys and then get 1-3 more.

3.) No one is saying that it is completely broken. It has some merit, some strengths to it. I wouldn't for instance scoff if they used it in every game going forward. After all the game is still an all time great for me. I love it. But to me the system is flawed. And where it is flawed many who are criticizing it clearly don't think the pros make up for it. You make some good points but ultimately the cons of the tediousness outweigh the pros for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jonm1010. I think you've explained yourself excellently as well. I actually agree with you as well. The Estus Flask system defintiely has benefits and the Blood Vial system has negatives. Absolutely. I just think overall that the Blood Vial system makes sense in the context of Bloodborne (even though it does have flaws like we've said). Just as Estus Flask's make sense and works well in Dark Souls. I wouldn't want them to be interchanged between the games, they've made a thought out decision for the healing system in Bloodborne and it's fine if people don't like it as much, nothing wrong with that I just don't think it's a downgrade or complete step back like some people believe and wanted to point out thatI think it's clearly been implemented with some thought behind it. Overall I've enjoyed the mechanic. Anyway, sorry if I've derailed or droned on too much. Thanks.
 
SkylineRKR said:
Bait him into using Chikage 2h mode. Go outside of entrance and watch his health deplete.
Click to expand...

Tried that but he's somehow was always smart enough to turn it off or back down.


Kamina said:
I had him/her follow me to the stairs. There i spammed poison knifes and the item which prevents healing. Every now and then I used a spear type weapon to poke the enemy a little to support the poison effect and voila, dead.
It's important to keep the distance because he/she can stagger you easily and a visceral attack will one-shot you.
Click to expand...

Yup tried poisoned as well, but it just made him spam his gun more.

I don't suppose there's a magic distance that doesn't make his AI use the gun is there ^^; ?
 
Nope didn't bother looking down, I saw the yellow in the water but thought it was just some fancy graphical effect.

If I kill him is there any negative consequence?
 
Chaos2Frozen said:
Tried that but he's somehow was always smart enough to turn it off or back down.




Yup tried poisoned as well, but it just made him spam his gun more.

I don't suppose there's a magic distance that doesn't make his AI use the gun is there ^^; ?
Click to expand...
Well as I said: the stairs helped a lot because if you are on the lower half of the staircase he/she will start walking up backwards, you can use that chance to theow knifes without him/her evading or shooting.
 
Anybody else heard talked to Gehrman while he's sleeping at the Hunter's Dream? Especially
the time where he starts crying and asks to be released from the dream
.
 
niccoolnic said:
Anybody else heard talked to Gehrman while he's sleeping at the Hunter's Dream? Especially
the time where he starts crying and asks to be released from the dream
.
Click to expand...

This happened to me when he wasn't around, I wasn't sure that it was him but I thought he'd be. He said something like "I'm too old to do this" and stuff.
 
Derpot said:
He also gives something interesting
if you kill him. A rune that increases discoveries
Click to expand...
Another weird thing missing in Bloodborne. Killing NPCs is really inconsequential. In past games it usually meant cutting off a quest chain or at least a shop. In Bloodborne most of the NPCs don't give much except a gesture and after learning it, kill away.
 
I'm super late to the conversation but I'm on #TeamEstus. Having to give up on a boss because I ran out of vials just pissed me off. It pissed me off so much that I sometimes refused to go get more vials and I just fought the boss with zero,which just made things more difficult for me. Dying against a boss when you're about to kill it is punishment enough for me. Late game it doesn't matter as much since you can just equip some moon runes, go kill a pig, and buy like 40 vials. However, early on it's extremely tedious, especially when you're still figuring things out. Besides, enemies hit so hard sometimes that 20 vials feels more like 10. Fighting a boss in Dark Souls and using up the last Estus Flask felt exciting. It was all or nothing at that point. Here, using up my last vial just pissed me off because it meant I either had to leave the area to get more vials or force myself to do a perfect run of the boss fight.
 
Draft said:
Another weird thing missing in Bloodborne. Killing NPCs is really inconsequential. In past games it usually meant cutting off a quest chain or at least a shop. In Bloodborne most of the NPCs don't give much except a gesture and after learning it, kill away.
Click to expand...

Actually... :S
I killed Iosefka's impostor before the needed time, I sent Arianna to the clinic and killed her monster form before the needed time... so... no true ending for me.
 
Draft said:
Another weird thing missing in Bloodborne. Killing NPCs is really inconsequential. In past games it usually meant cutting off a quest chain or at least a shop. In Bloodborne most of the NPCs don't give much except a gesture and after learning it, kill away.
Click to expand...

Hmm, if I remember correctly, if you kill
Eileen before finishing her quest, you can't get the covenant rune, no? Same thing for Alfred, I suppose?
 
Someone for the love of fucking God help me with Ebrietas.

Level 73.
 
Bucca said:
Someone for the love of fucking God help me with Ebrietas.
Click to expand...
image.php


Sorry, but your avatar plus your quote amuses me immensely.
 
M
ergo's Wet Nurse
slaughtered. Not that bad of a fight. When I figured out she had no range, it was basically baiting her into attacking and then attacking from behind. I'm guessing the game is almost over because I went back to
HD and FIRE IS SPREADING LIKE A MOFO!? O.O
Where do I go next!?
 
OK, there is some surprising shit in that forbidden forest.

I did not expect to get murdered in quite that way. Sometimes going off the beaten path is just asking for trouble ;p
 
knitoe said:
Lvl75 starting Defiled Chalice, going to be crazy or really fun.
Click to expand...

Have fun, man. I did it at 79 with 25 VIT and fighting the bosses were the most challenging and satisfying things I've done in the game. 20 or so tries later, I beat layer 2's boss, then shortly afterwards I decided to do a perfect run on it again without guns/runes/armor/consumables and it was immensely gratifying to achieve it.

Bucca said:
Someone for the love of fucking God help me with Ebrietas.

Level 73.
Click to expand...

Got a password?
 
Chaos2Frozen said:
Okay I've reached a brick wall here guys I need some advice- How do I defeat that "Cainhurst Hunter" at the end of Eileen's sidequest?

That repeating pistol of his is doing some ungodly damage to me.
Click to expand...

There's a couple ways to cheese him, but as far as practical advice goes all I have is to parry him to death and stay away from him when he's got his gun out. Numbing mists are handy to prevent healing, otherwise do your best to harass him whenever he tries to put distance between you because he's going to vial up.
 
That defiled layer 2 boss is really starting to annoy me. I've watched videos of others doing it and I bait the swipe but he gets me when I go in to hit or he dashes anyway. Had him down to 10%, but that was with a summon. Now I can't find anyone.
 
Zafir said:
1)
You can stun Father G with it to get a few hits in. It's not necessary though. I never used it when I beat him on either NG or NG+.

2)
Yeah, she appears outside of the chapel in the Cathedral Ward and tells you about a target she's going to attack in the Tomb where you fought Father G, you can then go help her(she may die if you don't). She then later appears at the Cathedral, where you have to beat another hunter who can be quite tough. After it all you get a rune to join her covenant and the mark to buy her gear/weapon if you haven't already got it.

3)
From what I remember, there's the old woman just before you meet the crow in Central Y. There's the nun in the Unseen City pre-Rom. There's Arianna and a dude which you can get to if you go all the way down the stairs from the grand cathedral, through the circle, and out that gate then go right to a alleyway. The dude you have to tell him the wrong place, he'll go to the opposite one that you say. The cannibal you should just kill really... or send him to the clinic.

Edit:
Oh, and after you have the nun in the chapel, don't accept or drink Arianna's blood. She as a tendency to turn on her, and you if you do. D:
Click to expand...

Thanks! There's so many things I did wrong in my first play trough >_<
 
Astral said:
I'm super late to the conversation but I'm on #TeamEstus. Having to give up on a boss because I ran out of vials just pissed me off. It pissed me off so much that I sometimes refused to go get more vials and I just fought the boss with zero,which just made things more difficult for me. Dying against a boss when you're about to kill it is punishment enough for me. Late game it doesn't matter as much since you can just equip some moon runes, go kill a pig, and buy like 40 vials. However, early on it's extremely tedious, especially when you're still figuring things out. Besides, enemies hit so hard sometimes that 20 vials feels more like 10. Fighting a boss in Dark Souls and using up the last Estus Flask felt exciting. It was all or nothing at that point. Here, using up my last vial just pissed me off because it meant I either had to leave the area to get more vials or force myself to do a perfect run of the boss fight.
Click to expand...

Getting angry and going back to the boss in an angry state of mind is exactly what you should NOT be doing.
 
KZObsessed said:
Nope. You get rewarded just by going through the levels and killing enemies while taking minimal damage rather than just legging it to the boss and skipping out all the enemies, which is an issue with these games as it's so easy to do. Limited Estus Flasks which can only be gained through resetting all the enemies actually encourage that behaviour. That's another flaw with that system.



It doesn't contradict because the issue is not the number of vials but people complaining that they don't respawn like Estus Flasks. The number of Blood Vials is higher than Estus Flasks because it's a faster paced game with no shileds to absorb damage. You probably will get hit more in Bloodborne than in Dark Souls, espeically if you played a tank with a tower shield. And sure a greater emphasis would be put on attacking to regain health if you had less Blood Vials but as it's a risk/reward scenario and can get you killed, putting more empasis on it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. I think they've got the balance spot on and that word "balance" is very important. There's positives and negatives for both systems but for Bloodborne, which plays very differently to the Souls games I think they've made the right choice.




Not true as the amount of health items is still limited and it's a faster paced action game with no blocking, outside of a well times parry. It's not like Demon's Souls where you can carry everything.



Not if you spend some souls on buying some vials whenever you have some spare, it's just some (very) basic resource management. There's also enemies on many of the levels which drop plentiful vials. You're therefore encouraged to face the big enemies and the werewovles to stock up on vials rather than just legging it past them each time. Another example of risk/reward which this entire game is based on.



I feel it's more appropriate mechanic for the game that Bloodborne is. You have higher number of healing items than Dark Souls because it's a faster paced game with no blocking. But it's not endless like Demon's Souls so it's more balanced. It also works with the risk/reward of regaining health while attacking as that risk/reward would virtually disappear if Blood Vials just respawned like Estus Flasks.

I'm not saying it's a perfect system, of course it has flaws. If you constantly leg it to the boss and continually fail you can end up running out of vials if you've done nothing to counter that by buying some or killing enemies that drop them. That can happen in plenty of RPGs and can be frustrating but that's kind of what these games are like, frustration is there so the satisfaction is even higher when you overcome it. Thery've specifically mentioned that's the kind of philosophy that these games are made with, people might prefer the ease of respawning health but I think I've pointed out that the Blood Vial mechanic has clearly been thought about and does have specific benefits and reasons behind it being implemented. If people prefer respawning health because it's something they don't have to worry about fine, but to say it's flat out bad design is just wrong.



Thanks Jonm1010. I think you've explained yourself excellently as well. I actually agree with you as well. The Estus Flask system defintiely has benefits and the Blood Vial system has negatives. Absolutely. I just think overall that the Blood Vial system makes sense in the context of Bloodborne (even though it does have flaws like we've said). Just as Estus Flask's make sense and works well in Dark Souls. I wouldn't want them to be interchanged between the games, they've made a thought out decision for the healing system in Bloodborne and it's fine if people don't like it as much, nothing wrong with that I just don't think it's a downgrade or complete step back like some people believe and wanted to point out thatI think it's clearly been implemented with some thought behind it. Overall I've enjoyed the mechanic. Anyway, sorry if I've derailed or droned on too much. Thanks.
Click to expand...


At the end of the day i just don't think it is the optimal solution for Bloodborne. You don't think it is a step back but I personally do. I think a tweeked Estus system would of actually increased the challenge for all players and eliminated the tedious health farming.

Better balance and execution would of made the system better as well. I can't say I see the balance you speak of. By end game vials are really just a mater of process and occasional annoyance if you are trying to beat a tough chalice dungeon. At that point the system is pretty indistinguishable from the Estus system with the catch being that you will occasionally need to replenish them and some areas actually refill them as you go along. So its a toss up whether you get an area made easier by blood vial drops or tedious in that you hit a wall and need to go replenish real fast.

At the end of the day I ask myself, if I was making the sequel and was asked to design the health system, would I choose the vial system as is again? My answer would be no. I find more potential in a tweeked estus system or messing with the mechanics of demons souls and souls 2 then bloodborne. None are outright bad systems, its just degrees to which I think one succeeds better then others.
 
Just beat it a couple of hours ago.
Gehrman
after a few tries. After me remembering that there is something like a parry-mechanic in the game, I improved radically, lol :P

Moon Presence
went down in first try though.

Trophy's I still have to get...

Weapon trophy. Am missing the Beast Claw
The two other endings, though the NG-playthroughs should be way faster I guess, no.... I hope
And the Chalice Dungeon trophy

...because, as I don't care for trophys at all, this might the first that temps me to get the Platinum. It's just that good.

First half hour of NG+ was quite enjoyable, 1st tried first two bosses. Almost had something like a nostalgic feeling there. :D

One question... do the moon runes stack?
 
Karu said:
Just beat it a couple of hours ago.
Gehrman
after a few tries. After me remembering that there is something like a parry-mechanic in the game, I improved radically, lol :P

Moon Presence
went down in first try though.

Trophy's I still have to get...

Weapon trophy. Am missing the Beast Claw
The two other endings, though the NG-playthroughs should be way faster I guess, no.... I hope
And the Chalice Dungeon trophy

...because, as I don't care for trophys at all, this might the first that temps me to get the Platinum. It's just that good.

First half hour of NG+ was quite enjoyable, 1st tried first two bosses. Almost had something like a nostalgic feeling there. :D

One question... do the moon runes stack?
Click to expand...

Congratulations, and yes they do.
 
Didn't fancy going to Forbidden Forest without feeling I'd fully explored Yarnham first. I got far, far more than I bargained for and now I'm in the N
ightmare
F
rontier
. What a deeply disturbing twist, I feel genuinely unsettled. Madman's Knowledge indeed.

It is recommended I continue forging ahead here or should I return to more familiar territory?
 
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