Flag Desecration at Georgia school. Veteran arrested while trying to stop it.

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I mean, I really wouldn't give a shit if I saw someone walking on a flag because it's just a colored cloth, but walking on a flag doesn't really accomplish anything either because it's just a colored cloth.
 
Africanus said:
Let us examine the statement "I can do both.".

1. I respect the first amendment.

2. The first amendment states: " No law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

3.I also support stopping someone else from stepping on the flag.

4. Stopping a person from stepping on the flag infringes on their rights stated in point 2, and as such, is in violation of the first amendment.

5. Therefore, both point 1 and the original statement can not be true at the same time.
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If he supports making it illegal to desecrate a flag, it can be seen as him not supporting the first amendment.

If he would steal a flag being desecrated, it means he supports theft in order to prevent a flag from being desecrated.
 
Africanus, sometimes you put wayyyy too much work dissecting something.

It is amusing the effort you put in though and you are one of my favorite newer posters ;)
 
Yaboosh said:
If he supports making it illegal to desecrate a flag, it can be seen as him not supporting the first amendment.

If he would steal a flag being desecrated, it means he supports theft in order to prevent a flag from being desecrated.
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What is the reason he would steal it however?
To prevent a person's execution of their rights.
 
Yaboosh said:
I am sure you can think of a few situations that could cause you to react harshly where someone is exercising first amendment rights.

If someone called my wife horrible names, I would probably punch them for example.

This doesn't mean I don't support the first amendment.

I don't give much of a fuck about flag desecration though. But that is just me.
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Someone explicitly using hurtful language to attack someone isn't really the same thing. There are limits on free speech, and using it to hurt someone (slander for instance) is not protected by the first amendment. Burning or otherwise desecrating a flag is.
 
Beloved said:
She is supposed to protect the freedoms of this country. They were trampling on a piece of fabric; she trampled on their 1st amendment rights.
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I'm not arguing whether she was wrong or right with her actions, I'm just saying that she was upset because people were walking on the flag of the country she has sworn her life to protect. I can understand why she would be mad and want to stop them.
 
while i understand her feelings, she is totally in the wrong... people like her are why we goto war over stupid stuff
 
“If your cause is racism then find some white people and walk on them,” said Manhart. “But to walk on the flag is walking on our symbol of freedom.
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Ok, this flag worship thing is ridiculous. It's an object and a symbol. Advocating that you do violence on living people vs. a symbol is a really warped sense of priorities.

I'd much rather they take their ire out on a symbol (which is very symbolic in itself) than on living people (who probably really are innocent save representing white people). I mean it's just a symbol, it isn't living nor has feelings. It's there to represent something. If they are protesting something and need something to represent it, it's a symbol! That's what it's for! It's doing its job!

People really need to stop and think about this crap rather than elevate a non living/non feeling symbol so much...
 
Coins said:
What argument? Vets took oaths to protect the Constitution. Walking on the flag is protected by the Constitution. What's the argument?
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No. This is the whole "we fight so idiots can have their freedom" BS that vets spout off. You said you wished there was another woman there to hit her (presumably because men shouldn't hit girls amirite). Either you believe in what the constitution protects or you don't.
 
For all you flag defenders.

rIt3V4Y.png
 
Hazmat said:
Someone explicitly using hurtful language to attack someone isn't really the same thing. There are limits on free speech, and using it to hurt someone (slander for instance) is not protected by the first amendment. Burning or otherwise desecrating a flag is.
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The point is that human beings are human and likely to have feelings that make their ideals hypocritical. So it's a giant waste of everyones time debating with someone about whether or not they can feel one way about Thing A and another way about Thing B. Especially when the vast majority of the time those things don't conflict in the first place.
 
It was wrong of her to steal the flag. She had no business.

She could've just protest the protestors.
 
LowKeyedUp said:
No. This is the whole "we fight so idiots can have their freedom" BS that vets spout off. You said you wished there was another woman there to hit her (presumably because men shouldn't hit girls amirite). Either you believe in what the constitution protects or you don't.
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I believe that if someone tries to steal your shit you have the right to defend yourself. If you try to take my car, my bike, etc. I am allowed to stop you.
 
Bsigg12 said:
I'm not arguing whether she was wrong or right with her actions, I'm just saying that she was upset because people were walking on the flag of the country she has sworn her life to protect. I can understand why she would be mad and want to stop them.
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I understand her reactions as well, however it's still a ridiculous reaction and just goes to show how indoctrinated many Americans are about our "symbols of freedom", when the urge to protect the symbol itself overcomes the urge to protect the freedoms of actual human beings.

You can understand why a person did the thing without condoning the thing they did.
 
Beloved said:
I understand her reactions as well, however it's still a ridiculous reaction and just goes to show how indoctrinated many Americans are about our "symbols of freedom", when the urge to protect the symbol itself overcomes the urge to protect the freedoms of actual human beings.

You can understand why a person did the thing without condoning the thing they did.
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Completely.
 
On one hand, there's no reason for the girl to try to stop them as it's a flag, on the other, it's a flag and is clearly something that would cause controversy, thus I can't really sympathize with the people who basically asked for others to get worked up. Basically, It goes without saying that the social issue is more important than the flag, however, the protest could have easily been done without a flag.
 
Mango The Magician said:
On one hand, there's no reason for the girl to try to stop them as it's a flag, on the other, it's a flag and is clearly something that would cause controversy, thus I can't really sympathize with the people who basically asked for others to get worked up. Basically, It goes without saying that the social issue is more important than the flag, however, the protest could have easily been done without a flag.
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And nobody would have paid attention to the protest, the only reason its getting any attention is because of the flag.
 
There's a military code for proper treatment of the flag. Kind of like how the Bible says homosexuality is a mortal sin, brainwashed people will retaliate when a display challenges their world view.

Edit: It's not a military code per se, but federal code by which the military and some citizens abide. It is not punitively enforceable by ruling of SCOTUS.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code
 
Mango The Magician said:
On one hand, there's no reason for the girl to try to stop them as it's a flag, on the other, it's a flag and is clearly something that would cause controversy, thus I can't really sympathize with the people who basically asked for others to get worked up. Basically, It goes without saying that the social issue is more important than the flag, however, the protest could have easily been done without a flag.
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Sure it could've been done without it, but the line of thinking that marginalized people should never do anything "controversial" to further their cause is a slippery slope. They had every right to do what they did, and that's all that matters in the context of this story.
 
Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.
 
reckless said:
And nobody would have paid attention to the protest, the only reason its getting any attention is because of the flag.
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I'd argue it was the Air Force girl taking the flag and then getting arrested causing it to get attention. It wouldn't be more than local news otherwise. Unless Fox had a slow news day I suppose.
 
Jest Chillin said:
The point is that human beings are human and likely to have feelings that make their ideals hypocritical. So it's a giant waste of everyones time debating with someone about whether or not they can feel one way about Thing A and another way about Thing B. Especially when the vast majority of the time those things don't conflict in the first place.
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I understand that, but you can't support someone committing a crime attacking a freedom that you claim to support. You can't break the freedoms in the first amendment down into the ones that you like and the ones that you support unlawful acts against and still claim to like the first amendment.
 
So many emotions and reaction for a flag. I just find the whole situation to be silly. I don't really care much about whoever was in the right or wrong.

Isn't it funny that one the most patriotic country in the world is the ones that killed their natives for it? Maybe not funny, more sad. But that is another story.
 
Smh at the girl recording...

"Why did you not stick up for the flag?"

I swear, this flag worship astounds me at times.
 
Mango The Magician said:
On one hand, there's no reason for the girl to try to stop them as it's a flag, on the other, it's a flag and is clearly something that would cause controversy, thus I can't really sympathize with the people who basically asked for others to get worked up. Basically, It goes without saying that the social issue is more important than the flag, however, the protest could have easily been done without a flag.
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They are protesting the American apartheid. The flag is representing said country. It is a perfect symbol from them to use. You don't protest based on the hurt feelings of people towards inanimate objects.
 
King Tubby said:
We don't have the 1st Amendment to protect speech that everyone agrees with. She had no right to do that.

You don't respect it if you endorse what this woman did. EDIT: Maybe that's too harsh, actually.

That said, a lot of people in this thread are hypocrites. If this had been a story about someone getting arrested for taking a "God Hates Fags" sign from WBC and ripping it to shreds, people would be applauding it.
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I'm not sure an American flag and a God hates fags sign are equitable but...

not caring about a flag and caring about a big sign that says God hates fags are pretty different things hope this helps
 
“If your cause is racism then find some white people and walk on them,” said Manhart. “But to walk on the flag is walking on our symbol of freedom. You have the freedom to do what you are doing because of it. I’m not fighting against them. I’m fighting against the way they are going about it.”

Manhart said she hoped to ask for a letter of apology from the group and to take possession of the flag so she could dispose of it properly.
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1. Wow. Fuck off.

2. HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Fuck Off 2: Electric Boogaloo

3. fucking lol, as if it's been tainted somehow, jesus christ. Fuck Off 3: Fuck Off with a Vengeance.
 
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