The writers disagree. Deal with it.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders |OT| ATTEMPT NO MANGA SPOILERS HERE
- Thread starter Tizoc
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Nope Jotaro is awesome. His straight man attitude works surprisingly well for the situations he's put it. It helps that he's reasonably intelligent too.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
Joseph, the best backseat gamer you could ever ask for. Seriously, as soon Jotaro show a sign of winning, he goes to provoke D'arby. Dude still got it.
He learned from the best. Speedwagon really made his money from narrating the obvious to cover up any hint of silence.
Monochromaticx
Member
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
He's definitionally Gary Stu. Super good at everything ever, his secret power is clearly the best one ever, he's supposed to be the coolest character in his narrative, he outshines all of the other characters on a regular basis even on the things they're supposed to specialize in, all his friends exist only to job for him, and all his villains respect and admire him. It's author fantasy gone mad. He's like the number one reason I preferred Battle Tendency, Jonathan is a way better protagonist. Hell, Jonathan is a better Joestar than Jotaro in Jotaro's own series!
#dealwithit
There's no element of author or audience self-insert to his character, which is the whole point of the Gary Stu trope. On the surface he's a cold, intimidating punk who doesn't take shit from anybody but he has a soft spot for his family and friends. Heck, most people find him difficult to relate to early on in SC. Being a skilled fighter and an intimidating protagonist doesn't make him a Gary Stu.
And I'd argue that the supporting cast of the previous two parts jobbed just as much, if not more than the SC gang. Neither Zeppelli won a meaningful fight and the only thing they were good at was empowering/motivating their Jojo in death. Lisa Lisa seemed more powerful than Joseph yet she lost to a simple cheat from Kars. The only reason SC seems worse is that there's more battles and a larger cast to share them and yet Kakyoin and Avdol have already been more useful than Caesar.
I don't think you know what a Gary stu is.
Overpowered stand? Sure. Underdeveloped supporting cast? Almost universally agreed upon. Gary stu? No sir.
Werewolf Jones
Member
While I too don't care for Jotaro...
P sure this happens in Battle Tendancy too though. But w/e at least Joseph is more entertaining than Jotaro.
P sure this happens in Battle Tendancy too though. But w/e at least Joseph is more entertaining than Jotaro.
Old Joseph is more entertaining than Joseph though.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Author self-insert is not strictly necessary for Gary Stu;
As an example. I've always seen them as just a hyper-idealized character. This is commonly as a result of author self-insertion, but there are other reasons you can end up with Gary Stus. You can recognize a character as a Gary Stu when you just end up rooting for their villains because frankly the Gary Stu is just so damn good at everything ever and has all the special sparkly sunshine powers that frankly they're tedious just to watch.
As an example. I've always seen them as just a hyper-idealized character. This is commonly as a result of author self-insertion, but there are other reasons you can end up with Gary Stus. You can recognize a character as a Gary Stu when you just end up rooting for their villains because frankly the Gary Stu is just so damn good at everything ever and has all the special sparkly sunshine powers that frankly they're tedious just to watch.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Nah Caesar manages to go toe to toe with him when he was alive. Hell even Stroheim manages to be useful in the final fight.
The SC crew is also useful in a ton of fights over the series (which isn't even finished if I might add). Jotaro's the most powerful but I think people are exaggerating things a bit here and idealising past and future parts. You've got characters that keep on jobbing from Part 1 to Part 8, it's a constant in the series.
Werewolf Jones
Member
JadedWriter
Member
Yo the end of Kakyoin's race is the biggest piece of deus ex bullshit!! The guy comes back and has an actual purpose only to get jobbed anyway.
Jotaro what kind of Japanese teenager are you not knowing how to play video games, for shame. Joseph, seriously, sit down, shut the fuck up and stop talking shit before you have to eat those words. Even Speedwagon knew not to talk shit all the damn time. Mind reading is the biggest form of cheating I can think of, fuck these cheating ass D'arby motherfuckers. Oh shit Jotaro took off his hat.
I like this fight way better than the first D'arby fight.
Jotaro what kind of Japanese teenager are you not knowing how to play video games, for shame. Joseph, seriously, sit down, shut the fuck up and stop talking shit before you have to eat those words. Even Speedwagon knew not to talk shit all the damn time. Mind reading is the biggest form of cheating I can think of, fuck these cheating ass D'arby motherfuckers. Oh shit Jotaro took off his hat.
I like this fight way better than the first D'arby fight.
Werewolf Jones
Member
This D'arby fight in the manga went on 11 chapters that's double the first D'arby.
Jex
Member
I just think that, in terms of structure, spending all that time building up to Dio's mansion and then immediately interrupting that with a videogame battle really kills the pace, especially as you know that there's yet another non-Dio battle after that.
Still my favorite speedwagon scene
This was my favourite R.E.O Speedwagon moment, hardly anything in Phantom Blood came close to how epic it was.
M0nochromatic
Member
You bring back the guy and give him SUNGLASSES, give him additional backstory, and then have him job. Man, I don't mind Jotaru being John Cena, but you could give the other guys their time in the spotlight as well. We get to see everyone's moves and quick thinking, but then they get very few actual victories and It just feels like a waste of character potential.
I really like the D'arby fights, I just wish they could have been wins for Joseph and Kakyoin instead.
I really like the D'arby fights, I just wish they could have been wins for Joseph and Kakyoin instead.
Versipellis
Member
No problem with that. But when you see a fight that suits a secondary character better (the two D'arby encounters, in this case) and they fail just to reiterate the fact that the MC is the best in every single way possible, well, it's not very satisfying.
And I'll assist you.
M0nochromatic
Member
It's useless, Grexenu.
I can understand people thinking Jotaro is bland, but he's gets less (relative) screen time than either Joseph or Johnathan. Every character in Part 1 and 2 who wasn't a Jojo or villain existed to give their Jojo a power up or inspire them to fight the villain. Everyone in Part 3 gets at least 2 fights and wins at least 1. That's more than literally every supporting protagonist in the other 2 parts.
Jotaro's being the star is only more noticable because the rest of the crew is getting any spotlight period.
Jotaro's being the star is only more noticable because the rest of the crew is getting any spotlight period.
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
That's why it ended up being my least favorite fight in the second half of part 3. At least it still has really great and memorable moments.
Yeah, I'm not sure why people act like this is the first part where most of the cast is made up of jobbers.
Kakyoin, Avdol, Polnareff, Iggy, and part 3 Joseph all manage to have more victories than fucking Caesar ever did.
SolarKnight
Member
Yeah Caesar is great and all but if we're talking about jobbers let's remember that he only ever really got one win and that was off screen and just a training exercise
Still more than his grandpa, at the very least. All Will A. Zeppeli did was physically assault Jonathan, forge him into a viking and then get cut in half and give the last of his Hamon to Jonathan.
Jonathan literally did all of the work in part 1. Hell, Speedwagon did more than Baron Zeppeli.
Werewolf Jones
Member
Why change it if your outfit is so on point?
I'm pretty sure his hat is his hair, the black strip is just a bandana.
I also didn't realize they changed his hair style from the manga to the anime.
KanameYuuki
Member
I feel kinda bad for Kayoin, he always tries his best but never does the final hit, he is like Vegeta just so we know how strong is the villian is.
Since people are talking about the usefulness of Jotaro's gang I thought I'd tally up the fights each were somewhat useful in so far.
Jotaro: Heirophant Green, Dark Blue Moon, Strength, Yellow Temperance, Wheel of Fortune, Justice, High Priestess, Osiris
Joseph: Empress
Avdol: Silver Chariot, Judgement
Kakyoin: Tower of Gray, Death 13
Polnareff: Ebony Devil, Hanged Man
Iggy: Horus
Mixed: Lovers (Jotaro, Kakyoin, Polnareff), The Sun (Kakyoin, Jotaro), Geb (Jotaro, Iggy), Anubis (Jotaro, Polnareff), Bastet (Joseph, Avdol), Sethan (Polnareff, Jotaro)
So that tallies up to:
Jotaro: 13
Joseph: 2
Avdol: 3
Kakyoin: 4
Polnareff: 5
Iggy: 2
I might have been a bit generous for a few but I think that is mostly accurate. And of course the Boingo fights aren't there because they lost on their own.
Jotaro: Heirophant Green, Dark Blue Moon, Strength, Yellow Temperance, Wheel of Fortune, Justice, High Priestess, Osiris
Joseph: Empress
Avdol: Silver Chariot, Judgement
Kakyoin: Tower of Gray, Death 13
Polnareff: Ebony Devil, Hanged Man
Iggy: Horus
Mixed: Lovers (Jotaro, Kakyoin, Polnareff), The Sun (Kakyoin, Jotaro), Geb (Jotaro, Iggy), Anubis (Jotaro, Polnareff), Bastet (Joseph, Avdol), Sethan (Polnareff, Jotaro)
So that tallies up to:
Jotaro: 13
Joseph: 2
Avdol: 3
Kakyoin: 4
Polnareff: 5
Iggy: 2
I might have been a bit generous for a few but I think that is mostly accurate. And of course the Boingo fights aren't there because they lost on their own.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I love that Jotaro says Jaguars better
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
Hanged Man/J. Geil is more of a team effort between Kakyoin and Polnareff.
Other than that, the list is accurate, at least for now.
They didn't. It changed over time in the manga.
Welfare
Member
This is what Jotaro is doing right now.
Even Jotaro couldn't beat Christopher Robin.
In Part 1 and 2 jobbing had consequences other than "MC will step up and fix everything". when Ceaser was first defeated by Wham, so was Joseph right afterwards, he didn't overpowered Wham by brute force, he lost the fight and scammed his way out of being killed.
The second fight with Wham ended with Ceaser dying, which was a far more interesting outcome than any of the jobbing in Part 3 (closest would be Avdol "dying").
The length is also an issue, the longer the season goes the more obvious the "jobbing" becomes and the more tiring it gets to see Jotaro stepping up to save others.
The issue isn't just in terms of relative fights. Stardust Crusaders is MUCH longer than Battle Tendency and has more absolute fights and a bigger main cast to juggle. Jotaro so far has won more fights in SC than there were total fights with named villains in BT. You can say Avdol and Kakoyin won more total fights than Caeser but that doesn't change the fact that Caeser left a bigger relative impact on the show than either of those two did (so far). Hell, Avdol and Kakoyin were written out of the show for longer periods of time than Caeser was even in BT.
The LONG stretches of time in which side characters get to do "nothing" I think is contributing to this general feeling of "only the MC gets to do anything". There was jobbing in BT but that part was so short and relatively well paced that the jobbing doesn't get as annoying. Hell I'm not sure I even consider the Caeser vs. Wham fight to be an example of jobbing, it felt like an earnest loss. What happened to Lisa Lisa will always remain bullshit though. On a side note, it helps that Joesph is just a more entertaining character to watch than Jotaro
LOL No
The LONG stretches of time in which side characters get to do "nothing" I think is contributing to this general feeling of "only the MC gets to do anything". There was jobbing in BT but that part was so short and relatively well paced that the jobbing doesn't get as annoying. Hell I'm not sure I even consider the Caeser vs. Wham fight to be an example of jobbing, it felt like an earnest loss. What happened to Lisa Lisa will always remain bullshit though. On a side note, it helps that Joesph is just a more entertaining character to watch than Jotaro
LOL No
Dedication Through Light
Member
Please stop, hes the one thats been most affected by the nefarious Dio and even already faced certain death from him once. Additionally, design wise, he is most interesting up there with Ceaser and Joseph.
One think I do like about this season is that we at least didnt have to endure any really painful moments, the thought of THAT moment in pt2 still makes me sad. Definitely one of the few anime scenes to make me cry pretty badly. .
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