I really love fighting games. But, I've always only played them for fun and never really seriously memorized combos. However, the Skullgirls tutorial crushed my dreams of ever playing a fighting game again because I couldn't even make it past the tutorial. Really made me question whether I was actually decent at fighting games or not.
Being bad at fighting games is the single most frustrating thing in my gaming history
- Thread starter Dr_Boris_Goltz
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Sword Familiar
178% of NeoGAF posters don't understand statistics
This usually ends with me getting juggled/comboed for a minute or so and I learn practically nothing. -.-
Mexican Sting
Member
I think Skullgirls tutorial along with I think one of Blazblue games where the final nails in the coffin for my ideals of getting good at 2D fighters.
I'll be content playing single player and maybe playing online only if there's good matchmaking and a decent online population of players in the period before the only people you find online are too experienced.
PandaPedinte
Member
Fighting games are like dating, you need to understand the fundamentals, need to know the matchups and the advantages and disavantages of your character.
stn
Member
I have enough experience in Street Fighter that I'm able to learn any fighting game fairly fast. Here's what I would do in your case.
1. Pick one character and one only.
2. Forget learning combos, learn how to use normals and specials first.
3. Learn what strings are most safe.
4. Learn how to do simple hit-confirms out of those strings.
5. Learn ONE simple combo/punish and tell yourself you're always going to do it when you have an opening.
Most of all, make sure you're playing the character the way he's supposed to be played. You said you're using Sub-Zero, right? Grandmaster? Learn how to use the ice clone first and foremost. Stick to defensive play and try to rush down only when you've frozen the opponent.
1. Pick one character and one only.
2. Forget learning combos, learn how to use normals and specials first.
3. Learn what strings are most safe.
4. Learn how to do simple hit-confirms out of those strings.
5. Learn ONE simple combo/punish and tell yourself you're always going to do it when you have an opening.
Most of all, make sure you're playing the character the way he's supposed to be played. You said you're using Sub-Zero, right? Grandmaster? Learn how to use the ice clone first and foremost. Stick to defensive play and try to rush down only when you've frozen the opponent.
Death Metalist
Member
It's alright, OP. You're not alone, I play fighting games for fun. I'm sure I can get good at them if I gave it the time and dedication it needs but I just don't like focusing too much on just one game, I got shit loads of other games to play through and not a whole lot of time.
This is one area where I think KI is really friendly to new players. Except for a few circumstances, you always have the opportunity to break someone else's combo, so you are not just passively taking a beating. Obviously if you guess wrong there are some pretty bad consequences. but the opportunity is there.
Yeah I feel I'd have to dedicate all my spare time to one game to get good and there is just too much out there to play in multiple genres for me to do that.
crimzonflame
Member
You mentioned MKX, watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUov4D5HBg4
One of the issues with skullgirls is even if you make it past the tutorial, you start playing real players who are decent, and you don't get to play because you're constantly being reset into 10 second combos. While SG is a great game for pros at anime/marvel, it's a terrible game for beginners because of how brutal it is.
It's much more brutal than SF4. I consider myself hopeless at the game despite being decent at traditional fighters.
This isn't really true haha. Unless you have a bad internet connection, or I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "real life"
Online helps grow skills initially, but I always get to a ceiling where I can't get better unless I playpeople face to face.
True for me, at least.
jailbird20022
Banned
Youtube and practice + playing with friends.
good way to learn is to watch and take notes, I remember when I started playing UMvC3 and SF4 I always had my laptop next to me and watching beginner combo tutorials. See what linked with what. Then started mixing and matching and making my own variations.
after it's down to muscle memory practice on the AI and some friends.
good way to learn is to watch and take notes, I remember when I started playing UMvC3 and SF4 I always had my laptop next to me and watching beginner combo tutorials. See what linked with what. Then started mixing and matching and making my own variations.
after it's down to muscle memory practice on the AI and some friends.
With fighting games, honestly, there is really a lot that has to go "right" in order to really start to get proficient at them.
Fundamentals and footsies are one thing, but there are a lot of "ground level" stuff that has to be taken into consideration as well. This includes whether or not you have the capacity to play online decently, whether you have local comp if your online options are bunk, and your mindset is very, very, very crucial in all of this. As others mentioned, you are going to get bodied hundreds upon hundreds of times before a lot of stuff will sink in, and not everyone is willing to, or is in the position in their lives period, to be able to dedicate that kind of time to the prospect of getting bodied as opposed to doing something else (someone humorously mentioned that relationships take a similar mindset, but in all honestly, it might be better to devote time to that rather than fighting games depending on your interest).
In short, practicing and learning is one thing, but the key is keeping at it.
Fundamentals and footsies are one thing, but there are a lot of "ground level" stuff that has to be taken into consideration as well. This includes whether or not you have the capacity to play online decently, whether you have local comp if your online options are bunk, and your mindset is very, very, very crucial in all of this. As others mentioned, you are going to get bodied hundreds upon hundreds of times before a lot of stuff will sink in, and not everyone is willing to, or is in the position in their lives period, to be able to dedicate that kind of time to the prospect of getting bodied as opposed to doing something else (someone humorously mentioned that relationships take a similar mindset, but in all honestly, it might be better to devote time to that rather than fighting games depending on your interest).
In short, practicing and learning is one thing, but the key is keeping at it.
matrixman92
Member
I dont understand them at all. Some of my friends used to be SUPER into Tekken. They would go to tournaments and stuff and i would just watch. They actually won quite often. They tried to teach me. I just cant comprehend it. They would say stuff like "you gotta predict what the opponent will do!" Im just like wtf, its another person randomly doing stuff, how am I supposed to predict that. And I would instantly forget any combos as well.
Kubera Leez
Member
I'm proud to be terrible a fighting games (except for smash). There is something rewarding about beating others while mashing buttons.
Yeah it takes a lot of work to get proficient in a fighting game. Just doing a tutorial and jumping online is going to end in tears. You need to be in that practice mode going over your moves and combos again and again to get that sh*t burned into your brain. I love fighting games but for this reason I only dedicate myself to fighting games I really, really like. I need to like the game a whole lot to put in the time required to be able to hold my own against skilled opponents online.
Orochinagis
Member
Thats pretty natural, just learn the most efficient combo you can pull and, practice, invest a good bunch of time in practice mode doing combos then go for multiplayer and try to do them there.
You will lose a lot but learn why you did lose, you were to slow?, couldnt do any combo? whats character was he using? Public matches are a little easier than the ranked ones and learn to make your space and lands combos until you can pull them by instinct.
You will learn faster if you have a friend and practice with him too
You will lose a lot but learn why you did lose, you were to slow?, couldnt do any combo? whats character was he using? Public matches are a little easier than the ranked ones and learn to make your space and lands combos until you can pull them by instinct.
You will learn faster if you have a friend and practice with him too
Sorry I won't be reading all the replies in this thread, but I hope I can still give you some sound advice on what to do. I wouldn't call myself amazing at fighting games, but I think I'm still above average and good enough that I enjoy these games.
Now from what I'm reading of the first page, I can see some of the posters saying that they practice in tutorial mode and think up strategies during the actual gameplay. I'm not quite like that, I have a very difficult time thinking in the middle of video games so I use my instincts instead.
So what I personally believe is important in these games is reaction time, if you can't react fast enough, the other players will hit you before your attacks land. Now that might seem like it's obvious, but judging from your OP I can see that you think other players have "priority" over your attacks. I've definitely have had that impression before, and it's usually because I wasn't fast enough to react to their own actions.
Now how would I suggest you improve your reaction time? Now that is a little difficult and I really wouldn't say I'm an expert at it. However, I think a good way of doing this is probably playing shooting games whenever you feel like it. Games like Call of Duty rely heavily on reaction time and I think once you get good enough at those games, it will definitely help you in fighting games (and probably train your eyes to occasionally pick up subtle movements in animation that help you determine what moves are coming next). Once you're able to pick up on these frames, you'll probably be able to block much sooner or even start using shorter framed attacks to counter them before it happens.
I also think you should probably pick someone who has a reach (hitbox area?) that you're very comfortable with. That's why I main characters with swords usually because their range is a little longer than other characters. You should familiarize yourself with the hitbox for each attack while playing other players (even if you don't manage to hit them) and from there you'll eventually start landing attacks. Now I say you'll familiarize yourself with the "hitbox", but it's not like I'm actually analyzing what the box looks like or how far it really is. I just use the attack enough times during the gameplay to start recognizing just how close the enemy has to be (and in what positions) for the attack to work. Once you become more familiar with the character, you'll probably start winning some games and enjoy the game more.
Now during actual combat, I'm not kidding when I say I rely on my instincts. I end up blanking my mind and I just use whatever buttons my fingers end up pressing. Now you're probably going to say that I button mash (and to be honest, I thought that at one point too); but I actually don't press the same button over and over and use different attacks and combos. Eventually you'll be comfortable playing most fighting games because you'll start to realize that there's an average sized hitbox that most characters use (like Ryu from Street Fighter). Also, you'll start to realize that there's commands which have similar functions throughout these fighting games.
I hope I'm not just repeating facts that you already know, but I really do feel like this is what I ended up learning throughout my years of playing fighting games with my friends (and alone). Good luck with your fighting games, send me a PM if you'd like to play some fighting games with me on a PlayStation console or the Wii U.
Now from what I'm reading of the first page, I can see some of the posters saying that they practice in tutorial mode and think up strategies during the actual gameplay. I'm not quite like that, I have a very difficult time thinking in the middle of video games so I use my instincts instead.
So what I personally believe is important in these games is reaction time, if you can't react fast enough, the other players will hit you before your attacks land. Now that might seem like it's obvious, but judging from your OP I can see that you think other players have "priority" over your attacks. I've definitely have had that impression before, and it's usually because I wasn't fast enough to react to their own actions.
Now how would I suggest you improve your reaction time? Now that is a little difficult and I really wouldn't say I'm an expert at it. However, I think a good way of doing this is probably playing shooting games whenever you feel like it. Games like Call of Duty rely heavily on reaction time and I think once you get good enough at those games, it will definitely help you in fighting games (and probably train your eyes to occasionally pick up subtle movements in animation that help you determine what moves are coming next). Once you're able to pick up on these frames, you'll probably be able to block much sooner or even start using shorter framed attacks to counter them before it happens.
I also think you should probably pick someone who has a reach (hitbox area?) that you're very comfortable with. That's why I main characters with swords usually because their range is a little longer than other characters. You should familiarize yourself with the hitbox for each attack while playing other players (even if you don't manage to hit them) and from there you'll eventually start landing attacks. Now I say you'll familiarize yourself with the "hitbox", but it's not like I'm actually analyzing what the box looks like or how far it really is. I just use the attack enough times during the gameplay to start recognizing just how close the enemy has to be (and in what positions) for the attack to work. Once you become more familiar with the character, you'll probably start winning some games and enjoy the game more.
Now during actual combat, I'm not kidding when I say I rely on my instincts. I end up blanking my mind and I just use whatever buttons my fingers end up pressing. Now you're probably going to say that I button mash (and to be honest, I thought that at one point too); but I actually don't press the same button over and over and use different attacks and combos. Eventually you'll be comfortable playing most fighting games because you'll start to realize that there's an average sized hitbox that most characters use (like Ryu from Street Fighter). Also, you'll start to realize that there's commands which have similar functions throughout these fighting games.
I hope I'm not just repeating facts that you already know, but I really do feel like this is what I ended up learning throughout my years of playing fighting games with my friends (and alone). Good luck with your fighting games, send me a PM if you'd like to play some fighting games with me on a PlayStation console or the Wii U
.There is no shortcut for getting good at fighting games, takes a lot of time and dedication. If you don't enjoy the process of learning and getting better, it's probably not worth trying to get better.
And if you do want to get better, prepare to lose a lot. There are a million different tutorials for everything and people love telling new players to read and study and learn everything, but in my experience that only burns out new players before they even get really started. Just play the game, enjoy it, and keep your brain turned on so you can learn something from your loses.
And if you do want to get better, prepare to lose a lot. There are a million different tutorials for everything and people love telling new players to read and study and learn everything, but in my experience that only burns out new players before they even get really started. Just play the game, enjoy it, and keep your brain turned on so you can learn something from your loses.
ShinMaruku
Member
The main problem is they would be terrible to teach you because they are not in the frame of mind where people where they lack the vocabulary of the game. When they mean predict what they are doing it's not really random, if you know set ups you will know the obvious follow up then you can punish them. Combos should mainly be muscle memory pulled from experience and prioritized.
All very true and where most fighting games fail is most of the time keeping at it is not rewarding to people. Which will always keep the player numbers very low. But I think that's by design. If developers want more people to play they will have to do much better. Because you can't rely on the community they are not qualified to make the mass appeal any better.
I feel like this in aksys fighting games. I'm a scrub at all 2d fighting games except maybe Mortal kombat, but Aksys fighting games in particular are completely unintuitive.
Op, I suggest you get your hands on a 3d fighter, specifically soul cal. They're a lot more intuitive than the quarter circle spams that 2d fighters generally are.
Op, I suggest you get your hands on a 3d fighter, specifically soul cal. They're a lot more intuitive than the quarter circle spams that 2d fighters generally are.
petran79
Banned
You are bad when compared to others but perfect by your own abilities. But even if you consider yourself bad, that should not prevent you from loving fighting games!
All that online and focus on execution scared away new players. Fighting games are not like Counterstrike, Starcraft and COD or even some obscure and hardcore anime fighter. Their arcade roots make them accessible to everyone. Sadly this seems to be forgotten.
I'd recommend fighters like Samurai Shodown 2 and Breaker's Revenge. They dont require hard execution but they force you to think at the same time.
Me too should have quit fighting games, based on those losses:
0-40 is the most I could handle in SF Alpha 3. Then the other player had to leave and me as well.
Same for Vampire Savior. 0-30 against good players who I could not beat even once.
Almost perfected in KOF98 by good players.
Double perfected in SF2T against Zangief and T.Hawk (Sako tick). Opponents had to change characters.
Ridiculed in Last Blade 2 with Moriya and Akari infinites.
Combo practiced in Garou and 3S. Opponent made AB cancel motions instantly and constantly, when they worked 1/10 for me.
Completely demolished in Real Bout Fatal Fury
No chance in SF4 against players over 2000PP in ranked. Win rate is 10 %.
I dont dare to play Skullgirls online anymore
But I got better. Can now play games on arcade stick and gamepad just fine. Previously I was a keyboard player. So left hand muscle memory was zero. This is a huge improvement
As long as I have my Dreamcast fighting games will be my main genre!
All that online and focus on execution scared away new players. Fighting games are not like Counterstrike, Starcraft and COD or even some obscure and hardcore anime fighter. Their arcade roots make them accessible to everyone. Sadly this seems to be forgotten.
I'd recommend fighters like Samurai Shodown 2 and Breaker's Revenge. They dont require hard execution but they force you to think at the same time.
Me too should have quit fighting games, based on those losses:
0-40 is the most I could handle in SF Alpha 3. Then the other player had to leave and me as well.
Same for Vampire Savior. 0-30 against good players who I could not beat even once.
Almost perfected in KOF98 by good players.
Double perfected in SF2T against Zangief and T.Hawk (Sako tick). Opponents had to change characters.
Ridiculed in Last Blade 2 with Moriya and Akari infinites.
Combo practiced in Garou and 3S. Opponent made AB cancel motions instantly and constantly, when they worked 1/10 for me.
Completely demolished in Real Bout Fatal Fury
No chance in SF4 against players over 2000PP in ranked. Win rate is 10 %.
I dont dare to play Skullgirls online anymore
But I got better. Can now play games on arcade stick and gamepad just fine. Previously I was a keyboard player. So left hand muscle memory was zero. This is a huge improvement
As long as I have my Dreamcast fighting games will be my main genre!
888
Member
Turning off Negative Edge on MK X helps with timing a bit for me.
It helps to learn your opponents if you can. I know one thing keep an eye on their bars. Most people I fight try to use the Xray the second they get it. As soon as it fills switch to defensive and try to block the xray and then punish them in return.
It helps to learn your opponents if you can. I know one thing keep an eye on their bars. Most people I fight try to use the Xray the second they get it. As soon as it fills switch to defensive and try to block the xray and then punish them in return.
Terareflection
Member
It really helps to find some friends (online or offline) that you can play against.
Message people after matches, ask questions.
Message people after matches, ask questions.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
That's basically MKX in a nutshell. High low strings into big combos. It's a lot like Marvel the way it's been set up at this point. If you're not doing the bullying you're going to get bullied yourself.
Or you can look for the laziest alternative. Like I did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DztuvpFf0RQ
Eish I'm not sure projectile spam is the answer to OP's problems. Also can't Raiden teleport in MKX?
Chinbo37
Member
\Yup I agree with this. Before online was a thing I got "ok" at SFII by constantly playing against the CPU on the highest level of difficulty.
I don't have any experience with MK (or a lot of fighters) and I don't know how good you actually are at fighters, but your problem seems to be that you don't really know what you're supposed to get better at. You talked about learning combos and such, but that's not really getting good at a fighting game.
If you're really early on, you need to focus on being able to control and use your character how you want. Stuff like reading your opponent, keeping up with what's happening on screen, and consistently doing inputs are fundamental parts of every fighting game. Combos aren't going to help you win anything if you can't do these well.
After that, you've got to start working on spacing, pressure, finding out the opponent's habits/what's "useful" for certain characters, setups (and doing them without giving them away)... It's around here that most fighting games become focused on mindgames and out-thinking the opponent. It's also around the same time that they start getting less frustrating and more fun (to me). Beyond this, I don't know what to say: I'm not that great at fighting games either.
In my case I was in the same position as you when I started. I got really tired of trying to learn combos, so I went over to 3rd Strike as it doesn't focus to heavily on them. Can't say it was the best idea, but playing a "simpler" game that relied heavily on fundamentals helped a lot.
Tldr: You've just gotta bang your head against the wall until you get it. As long as you focus on understanding and getting good at the base game and try not to get to into the higher level stuff, it should(?) come naturally.
Edit: play against humans op, but ai is still good for getting used to what a character can do, since exploting the m usually means repeating the same action (it's more interesting than training mode).
If you're really early on, you need to focus on being able to control and use your character how you want. Stuff like reading your opponent, keeping up with what's happening on screen, and consistently doing inputs are fundamental parts of every fighting game. Combos aren't going to help you win anything if you can't do these well.
After that, you've got to start working on spacing, pressure, finding out the opponent's habits/what's "useful" for certain characters, setups (and doing them without giving them away)... It's around here that most fighting games become focused on mindgames and out-thinking the opponent. It's also around the same time that they start getting less frustrating and more fun (to me). Beyond this, I don't know what to say: I'm not that great at fighting games either.
In my case I was in the same position as you when I started. I got really tired of trying to learn combos, so I went over to 3rd Strike as it doesn't focus to heavily on them. Can't say it was the best idea, but playing a "simpler" game that relied heavily on fundamentals helped a lot.
Tldr: You've just gotta bang your head against the wall until you get it. As long as you focus on understanding and getting good at the base game and try not to get to into the higher level stuff, it should(?) come naturally.
Edit: play against humans op, but ai is still good for getting used to what a character can do, since exploting the m usually means repeating the same action (it's more interesting than training mode).
Karsticles
Member
Those that struggle at fighting games:
What do you think it is that stops you from being good? What holds you back? What don't you understand, or what can't you do?
What do you think it is that stops you from being good? What holds you back? What don't you understand, or what can't you do?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Projectile spam is always the answer. (One of the keys in getting into a FG IMO is to find stupid stuff to then build your game around as you get used to the basics etc.) If the bullets hit, you're at + and can interrupt pretty much anything they try. Even teleports as my Scorpion match shows.
That aside, it depends on the Raiden variant.
visiblemode
Member
Seems like you're overthinking things. At first you'll lose a ton and measure success by times you got the edge or worked in memorized stuff into the flow of combat. It takes a long time to develop real skill in most fighters.
The worst thing people getting into fighting games do is look up complicated combos on SRK, DL, or TYM, practice them in training mode for a few hours until they can do them consistently, then go online and get destroyed game after game as they try and land the combo they practiced against players who actually know what they're doing.
When you're just starting out, you're literally never going to lose a game because your combo damage wasn't optimal. What you are going to lose to is people abusing your poor, underdeveloped defense and bad fundamentals.
The best advice I can give is see if there's a weekly meet-up for fighting games nearby, and start going to it. If one isn't close to you, you're just going to have to keep mashing games online and ask for advice from fighting game forums. You're also going to have to come to terms with the fact that you're going to lose almost every game you play for the first little while. Fighting games are hard.
If winning all the time means a lot to you, then you should find a different genre of game to play.
When you're just starting out, you're literally never going to lose a game because your combo damage wasn't optimal. What you are going to lose to is people abusing your poor, underdeveloped defense and bad fundamentals.
The best advice I can give is see if there's a weekly meet-up for fighting games nearby, and start going to it. If one isn't close to you, you're just going to have to keep mashing games online and ask for advice from fighting game forums. You're also going to have to come to terms with the fact that you're going to lose almost every game you play for the first little while. Fighting games are hard.
If winning all the time means a lot to you, then you should find a different genre of game to play.
With the release of MKX, I keep reading so many people being introduced to fighting games and approaching them by... Memorizing combos :x As has been mentioned, you do that one your fundamentals are decent, not before. Memorizing combos serves no purpose if you can't figure out how to actually make them happen during a match. I'm a Street Fighter guy so I'm pretty noob-ish at MKX, but I've beaten plenty of people who have memorized flashy combos (unlike me, I haven't bothered with combos yet) with simple fundamentals, reads, proper blocking and spacing, etc.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
I suck at Smash Bros and it pisses me off so I know your pain
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Nah, you haven't tried to beat Sturm in Advance Wars with Andy, Sami, & Grit.
Unknown Soldier
Member
More than any other genre of games, you pretty much had to grow up playing fighting games from a young age and have practiced them all your life to be really good at them. You also need unusually good reflexes even compared other gamers, and that's something you can train to some extent but it's also something you're born with.
This is probably why the modern FGC is such a tiny niche, come to think of it.
This is probably why the modern FGC is such a tiny niche, come to think of it.
Teknopathetic
Member
"More than any other genre of games, you pretty much had to grow up playing fighting games from a young age and have practiced them all your life to be really good at them."
It's funny how wrong you are. There are so many solid players that came into SF4 never really playing fighting games much before it released.
It's funny how wrong you are. There are so many solid players that came into SF4 never really playing fighting games much before it released.
This isn't true at all. Some of the best SF4 players started with SF4.
ShinMaruku
Member
Are you sure they never played ANY fighting game. What I find more untrue than "You need years to get into a fighting game" is the idea that any person off the street can get to top 16 at evo." I find that impossible. 
Are you sure they never played ANY fighting game. What I find more untrue than "You need years to get into a fighting game" is the idea that any person off the street can get to top 16 at evo." I find that impossible.
The only difference between any of the top players and you is practice and experience.
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
I ended up selling the game.
I thank everyone for all the advice but it actually turned me away from the genre. It's just too much to learn and take in, and I'd rather spend my time elsewhere.
Maybe I'll try again with the next SF.
I thank everyone for all the advice but it actually turned me away from the genre. It's just too much to learn and take in, and I'd rather spend my time elsewhere.
Maybe I'll try again with the next SF.
SquirrelSoup
Member
Are you sure they never played ANY fighting game. What I find more untrue than "You need years to get into a fighting game" is the idea that any person off the street can get to top 16 at evo." I find that impossible.
Of course it's not 'any person off the street'. It takes talent, dedication and hard work and not everyone has that or wants to put work in.
But Luffy, last year's USF4 EVO winner, started fighting games with SF4 in 2010. I think he did Dota or something before though.