Being bad at fighting games is the single most frustrating thing in my gaming history

Memorizing combos should be way lower on your priority list if you want to learn the game, or fighting games in general.

Then why is it a "featured mode" in training? Nearly every fighting game has a "combo training" mode which is a head scratcher when half those "featured combos" are simply impractical in actual matches.
 
Then why is it a "featured mode" in training? Nearly every fighting game has a "combo training" mode which is a head scratcher when half those "featured combos" are simply impractical in actual matches.
Training players on other stuff like reads and spacing is much harder than creating a combo tutorial.
 
The last one I was any 'good' at was the various editions of Street Fighter 2 in the arcades and on the SNES/Megadrive. These days I just get destroyed by people with amazing skills at it that make my heyday look like a pack of amateurs. That's the difference between gamers mainlining it on the internet for several hours every night now and casual players like me, the level of skill of the top-level players and those chasing them now is on another level compared to how it used to be. I'm OK with the matchmakers pairing me up with other guys of a similar level, I don't need to be destroying people with far more free time than me to feel like I get my money's worth.

Only another few years and my kid will be able to teach me how to play :D

The only tip I can offer is that it always feels like you are better off experimenting and losing all night long, getting a feel for the whole game, than trying and failing at the same learnt combos every time, occasionally scratching out a win. Everyone has characters and move sets they feel more comfortable with, and characters they find easier to defeat than others too. They tend to have so many characters in each game now that you can experiment for weeks and only scratch the surface until you find something that works.
 
I was terrible at fighting games as well until the day I started playing Blazblue and found a game I really enjoyed, started training using Iron Tager and I am finally pretty alright at it.

Still can't played games like Dead or Alive, King of Fighters or Tekken at all.

I think it just comes down to that, find a fighting game first of all that you really enjoy so that you will have more motivation to get better. Street Fighter never did much for me, the gamechanger that really got me hooked was Blazblue.
 
Then why is it a "featured mode" in training? Nearly every fighting game has a "combo training" mode which is a head scratcher when half those "featured combos" are simply impractical in actual matches.
For those already good?
Arcade mode is what newbies should b training in.
 
Yeah, I find fighting games too hard now. I mean back in Snes era I was pretty good and was able to do all combos in Street fighter and older Mortal Kombats. Then I stopped caring about fighting games and went back when Killer Instinct came on Xbone. And damn do I suck, I cant do simple combos and lose to AI in heartbeat.

You weren't able to do all combos- you just could do the ones you saw. There was some insanely hard stuff in SF2 as well.

What's happened is the players have gotten better at combos, and other aspects of the game over time. This is a big reason why the genre is so hard, it's a very unique, and very rewarding skillset. Twenty years ago you could get 3rd in a smaller major without knowing how to even DP.

Also, the increased emphasis on combos being the source of damage over time also increased the complexity heavily. This is why I really want a Samurai Shodown-esque game to come back- the concept would be simple enough that people would love it.
 
Arcade mode is what newbies should b training in.

Not according to half the "FGC." According to them: "DON'T DO ARCADE MODE! IT WON'T HELP YOU WITH ANYTHING!"

Training players on other stuff like reads and spacing is much harder than creating a combo tutorial.

I dunno. Dead or Alive (in before "LOL") seems to have a decent training mode for breaking down all aspects of it's systems. I'd say Blazblue, but in all honesty: I can't really say that because while Blazblue started the whole tutorial wave for fighters after people ignored Virtua Fighter 4's: I feel Blazblue's is too "quick and over" while throwing a bunch of shit at you to process (whereas DOA5's BREAKS. IT. DOWN. into bite-sized chunks: You can do high holds? Great. Here's mid holds. Can do that? Great, here's low holds). The problem is less to do with tutorials but how they are done. And throwing Combo Training in when those combos won't even be used in a practical match seems... just as "hard"/pointless to me. *shrug*
 
I'm bad at fighting games too, but enjoy them anyway. Still, playing online against people kind of soured me. I can enjoy a fighting game even if I lose, and I even learn from them. But I hate getting ridiculed by people I meet online, who send you dumb messages after a match or hate mail if you win. Weird, because trash talking in the arcade with total strangers is fine by me :)

I think new people to fighting game focus too much on combos. Combos are the end game. Focus more on learning spacing, frame data/when to punish, normals ranges

This is pretty important I feel, and a mistake I make too. Still, a lot of games emphasize combo's in their tutorials so it isn't that strange really. People who aren't fighting game veterans really gravitate more faster toward the quick flashy stuff to use in match than learning to read opponents and make reasonable predections and act upon that.
 
For those already good?
Arcade mode is what newbies should b training in.
Nah, that's pretty bad advice. Maybe on the most fundamental level playing arcade on easy mode will teach you how to move your chasacter, but outside of the basest fundamentals it's worthless. In MKX for example, playing on Hard or Very Hard arcade trains you for absolutely nothing at all, and actually makes you worse against real players.

Then why is it a "featured mode" in training? Nearly every fighting game has a "combo training" mode which is a head scratcher when half those "featured combos" are simply impractical in actual matches.
It's a fun dexterity challenge. I don't think many games with stuff like that (SF4, MvC3) call it training, and for good reason.
 
I feel your pain, OP.

I want to get good at Guilty Gear, but can't. And since there are few players online (compared to other fighting games), which means fewer newbs like me, I get my ass kicked all the time.
 
I just don't get them... I was practicing Sub Zero in MKX and learned a bunch of combos and when I go to fight somebody I forget everything.

I can't get timing right. I'll try to pull moves off and the other guy is so aggressive it's just destroying me. So I'll try blocking more... Nope he goes from high to low at random and there is absolutely no way for me to guess. Okay... I'll try being aggressive as well. Wait his hits seem to take priority over mine and I can't do shit.

I think you're getting too stuck up on combos. You shouldn't only be learning combos. You should be brushing up on your fundamentals too. Even just in training mode you can test stuff like the bolded (e.g. most games have a dummy record feature so you can get them to repeat an attack and then you can compare/test priority on attacks). The point is, there's a whole lot more to training mode than just learning combos

My advice: practice against the CPU on the highest level.

Ehhhh I'm not sure that's solid advice. CPU's do not play the same at all like normal players, they do shit like input reading or perfectly blocking all your mixups that make them completely different to how human players play. I mean shit, UMVC3's highest difficulty is literally different from human players as the CPU's there actually have different/unique attacks (CPU!Hsien-Ko has full screen gongs that soak up so many projectiles when you put her on high difficulty but you can't do that when you play as her)

I think that CPU's can be good for getting the feel of a game's mechanics and for getting to grips with your character. But anything more than that is just going to build up bad habits
 
Nah, that's pretty bad advice. Maybe on the most fundamental level playing arcade on easy mode will teach you how to move your chasacter, but outside of the basest fundamentals it's worthless. In MKX for example, playing on Hard or Very Hard arcade trains you for absolutely nothing at all, and actually makes you worse against real players.


It's a fun dexterity challenge. I don't think many games with stuff like that (SF4, MvC3) call it training, and for good reason.
Well they need to learn how to make their characters move properly, be able to perform basic combos and special moves, and read the opposition (even if it's just AI).

Need to learn how to walk before you can run
 
I just don't get them... I was practicing Sub Zero in MKX and learned a bunch of combos and when I go to fight somebody I forget everything.

I'm like this.

However now I am not forgetting his shit, it takes time and for you not to switch characters too often if at all to truly get a grip on just one guy. What helped me was not playing A.I. and writing down some basic combos and having them infront of me whilst I played.

Then muscle memory takes over from then on.

And it's not just about the combos either but where you place yourself in the stage, how often do you poke etc. Biggest mistake I and a lot of people I watch made is not blocking and standing over a guy when he's about to wake up. Find out what special can be used as a wake up too (subs is his back forward circle ice slide)

Timing is everything too.

Learning how to play as frustrating as it can be sometimes from actual people is the best way to learn as they'll be doing shit a computer won't do.
 
Well they need to learn how to make their characters move properly, be able to perform basic combos and special moves, and read the opposition (even if it's just AI).

Need to learn how to walk before you can run
Reading how to learn the AI is worthless though lol. At lower difficulties it's worthlessly easy, at high it's worthlessly difficult. At any rate, the fact that some people are actually suggesting that a good way to get good at MKX of all games is to play arcade on harder difficulties is a mix between laughable and horrifying. Like I suck against even Hard difficulty opponents, and I've had no trouble online.

So yeah, play through arcade on normal or whatever if you have absolutely no idea what you're doing, but don't try to form any sort of strategy.
 
Learning to play a fighting game, if you're starting from a position of being 100% fighting-game illiterate, is a lot like trying to build a shelf, in an upright position, with only two hands, and no wall to lean a board against.

There are probably a good half-dozen or so components that you need to be passably good at before you can really say that you have even basic competency with the genre, and most of those components interlock with one another so heavily that it's basically either impossible or of very little value to practice any particular one in isolation.

If you play against someone who is only as good as you are, learning is incredibly slow and incredibly difficult because they're simply not going to be doing the kinds of things that you need to face in order to learn those concepts.
If you play against someone who is much better than you who actually does the things that you need to see in order to improve, you'll get some experience, but your progress is still going to be imperceptibly slow, because slowly learning to identify and counter different situations doesn't actually help you win until you start learning how to actually press your advantage - you're still going to go through the demoralizing process of losing hundreds of hundreds of matches, that are rarely even close, while never actually getting to do anything "fun" or "cool" yourself. On top of that, you're a boring as shit opponent for your more-skilled adversary to play against.


Personally, as someone who's been eternally bad at fighting games, I had the most luck making progress at them when I was playing Persona 4 Arena. The auto-combo kind of 'holds one of the boards while you build the shelf', without undermining your ability to learn by relegating that combo to some unrecognizable 'novice mode'.
When you played against people who were better than you, you always had at least the one card in your hand that you could use to press an advantage if you found an opening. And when you played against people who were worse than you, they would still mash out the auto-combo which would, at the very least, give you some practice in defending against attacks that actually come strung together and have some variation.
 
^
That's a pretty good post. Everyone else talking about footsies and strategy and frame data and all that other trash is getting way too far ahead. Most people probably get frustrated and quit playing these games before any of that becomes even remotely relevant. When you are bad at fighting games you don't even have the "fundamentals" of moving a character or pressing buttons not just whatever the optimal meta-game, or footsies or whatever the hell you want to call it.
 
honestly, i think if you want to get into a fighting game and not feel completely left behind wait until a new game comes out and grow with the community, make sure you keep up with it and play lots of online matches if you don't have any friends that play. in the case of MKX it sucks that the net code is such garbage because unless it's fixed i'm sure that community will die and in a year or so. i was pretty decent when mvc3 came out but I stopped playing, tried picking up UMVC3 a year after it came out and even though i was able to play and do the same combos i was doing before the community had picked up on some insane shit i was just unable to keep up with.
 
It doesn't help that most fighting games have terrible tutorials that fail to teach the basic mechanics.
The problem is that it's not just about a game's mechanics and systems. As has been repeated a few times, fundamentals (spacing, zoning, mixup, etc.) are the main meat and gravy for the genre, and they carry over to almost every other fighting game. Most games assume you know these fundamentals before jumping in.

Though you can learn about them through tutorials (hence why many people recommend the Skullgirls tutorials), playing regularly against real opponents is the most effective way of developing fundamentals.

Having a competitive mindset helps as well. I was lucky to have grown up playing console fighting games against my brothers, and while they've both stopped as we got older, I continued on and kept those fundamentals amd that competitive spirit up to this day.

In short, best advice is to develop your fundamentals and have a rival or two to keep you going.
 
I just don't get them... I was practicing Sub Zero in MKX and learned a bunch of combos and when I go to fight somebody I forget everything.

I can't get timing right. I'll try to pull moves off and the other guy is so aggressive it's just destroying me. So I'll try blocking more... Nope he goes from high to low at random and there is absolutely no way for me to guess. Okay... I'll try being aggressive as well. Wait his hits seem to take priority over mine and I can't do shit.

I have never been good at fighting games even though I've been trying for probably over 25 years, starting with Street Fighter 2. It's so incredibly frustrating, especially since I'm decent at other games.

I don't even know HOW to get better is the real problem.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Just play single player and enjoy yourself man.

I agree with MKX it's hard because there are like 75 different character variations. I havent even chosen a main yet...
 
I can hold my own with 3D fighters, but am completely abysmal with 2D/2.5D ones. It's really frustrating, as I really like the characters and style of SF, BlazBlue, KoF etc., but I just get my ass kicked everytime. Going online with SF4 was one of the most depressing experiences I've had in gaming.

Didn't help that those rare wins I did have were usually coupled with hate mail telling me I was shit anyway :p

I'm also only half decent at 3D fighters for some reason. I think it might be because I like not having to think so much about jumping and projectiles when defending which keeps me in the match longer. Even then Virtua Fighter is the only series I've ever felt more then average at playing. They put in a good tutorial in VF4:Evo and its 3 button system helps as I feel I don't need crazy finger dexterity to do some decently punishing combos when I get an opening.

I still love the genre and have done since SF2. I still regularly buy fighting games but I've just accepted I'll never be competitive in most of them and instead just enjoy fighting the CPU in most games. I know it won't help me beat human opponents but I still have a good time so I don't care. Fleshed out single player modes are a godsend, please Capcom for Street Fighter 5 give me more then arcade mode and shitty impossible to perform trials.
 
Boy... I'll just say that it takes a long time to build those fundamentals for fighting games. And here's the kicker; even if you "git gud" at one particular fighter, that skill doesn't necessarily cross over to other fighting games. Street Fighter sequels are almost entirely different from each other. MK is entirely different from Street Fighter. Tekken and Virtua Fighter are entirely different games.

Only thing I can suggest (and I skimmed through the thread so I might be repeating what others have said) is to:

Get your special and super move inputs down. Keep practicing until you can do them 10 times out of 10 attempts.

Get your combos down. Keep practicing until you can do them 10 times out of 10 attempts.

When you go into training mode, set the dummy to block after 1 hit. Then when you're comfortable set the dummy to block randomly. I don't know if MK X allows this but this is a good idea in general.

Figure what moves are safe on block. Figure out frame traps. Basically figure out matchups. Figure out whatever unique game mechanics the game you're playing has. Almost every obscure fighter out there has at least a somewhat depthful guide going over the mechanics, do a google search and go on those forums and read those guides.

Look up Youtube videos of high level matches and videos by specialists (not DSP). Watch what they're doing and most importantly watch what they're not doing. Ask a question in the comments; even if the Youtuber won't respond maybe someone else will (but take with a grain of salt because of Youtube comments).
 
I don't even know HOW to get better is the real problem

By far the best way is to find someone at your skill level and play against them regularly: you will both improve dramatically. It's the most fun way as well, which is crucial. In the old times my friends used to refer to this as "Ryu and Ken training", from the scenes in he original anime movie where they are training under Gouken.
 
I just don't get them... I was practicing Sub Zero in MKX and learned a bunch of combos and when I go to fight somebody I forget everything.

I can't get timing right. I'll try to pull moves off and the other guy is so aggressive it's just destroying me. So I'll try blocking more... Nope he goes from high to low at random and there is absolutely no way for me to guess. Okay... I'll try being aggressive as well. Wait his hits seem to take priority over mine and I can't do shit.

I have never been good at fighting games even though I've been trying for probably over 25 years, starting with Street Fighter 2. It's so incredibly frustrating, especially since I'm decent at other games.

I don't even know HOW to get better is the real problem.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Exactly the same.
Im playing Injustice this last weeks (had it on my steam account and said the other day, why not), and happened exactly like you said with MKX.
Learn a bunch of combos, forget in the next fight, the other guy stops everything.
The funny thing is that I have a bigger chance of winning when I smash buttons (not mindlessly like someone that doesnt know how to play, but still button smashing, just woth good zoning and defense that seems the only thing I do right in this games).
And I freaking hate playing with the 360 controller, but its the only thing I have. I know how to do this combos, but the controller doesnt help when the guy does a different thing.

Im really good at smash. Maybe my head is bad at learning button orders instead of you comboing with the attacks the game gives with simple moves.
 
Mine is Rock band. I've had to leave because i am so bad at it. And it's the most social game ever, it's everywhere. It triggers anxiety on me now.
 
Online for MKX is pretty much unplayable. It's not a legitimate measure of skill.

I would say it is very hostile and unforgiving for newbies. Unless you're a pro, you'll be taken down in less than 10 seconds.

The fact that matchmaking is pretty much non-existing makes it even worse. Not even unranked versus matches will be any good for practicing.
 
I would say it is very hostile and unforgiving for newbies. Unless you're a pro, you'll be taken down in less than 10 seconds.

The fact that matchmaking is pretty much non-existing makes it even worse. Not even unranked versus matches will be any good for practicing.

This is what kills me. I want to go online and just have some fun, but because I constantly get matched up with ridiculously good people, it's just depressing. i can't even get a single hit in sometimes while they just wreck me like it's nothing. Why isn't there a competent match making system? I sit there for 3-5 minutes waiting for a fight that I'm just going to be completely destroyed in. It's just not worth it.
 
This is what kills me. I want to go online and just have some fun, but because I constantly get matched up with ridiculously good people, it's just depressing. i can't even get a single hit in sometimes while they just wreck me like it's nothing. Why isn't there a competent match making system? I sit there for 3-5 minutes waiting for a fight that I'm just going to be completely destroyed in. It's just not worth it.

Depends on the game. Marvel was good about this, AE was not. Tekken was probably the best about it, and Gundam Versus was second. You shouldn't go online until you have your fundies down and expect to be good anyway.
 
Depends on the game. Marvel was good about this, AE was not. Tekken was probably the best about it, and Gundam Versus was second. You shouldn't go online until you have your fundies down and expect to be good anyway.
The paradox is that you can't get your fundamentals down unless you play actual players.
 
"Depends on the game. Marvel was good about this, AE was not. Tekken was probably the best about it, and Gundam Versus was second. You shouldn't go online until you have your fundies down and expect to be good anyway."


I believe I said it in a different thread (or maybe not) but fighting games definitely need to look at what PC games are doing with matchmaking these days. SC2, DotA 2, CS:GO, etc. Placement matches to determine a rank/ELO/MMR/whatever and then matchmaking based on those ranks. As is, a person who spends 10000 hours offline or in player matches grinding with solid players goes online and gets matched up with sub 1000pp players. Everyone starting at the bottom and going up is *bad* for matchmaking.
 
Scorpion is definitely more noob friendly. Especially i feel his left variant. He has everything he needs to control the space.

Combos are quite low priority if you are starting a game. Combos are always very game specific. You want to know how to use the xray effectiely, when to grab. when to jump, when to not. Use specials to control space and if you can lead into them by tapping some attacks out.
 
Tell me about it.

I was considered the best at Smash Bros Melee in College by a large margin... and then a friend of mine comes over to my house and just destroys me everytime. That same friend doesn't do that well against some of the better players in the UK and those same players get completely destroyed by Fuzzyness and Professor Pro [Top 2 in the UK]

And we're just the UK scrubs. I think we only have like two players in the top 100 [world] and those two players even compared to top 25 are quite outclassed, top 6 is on a completely different level.

It's very frustrating to be so minuscule in the grand scheme of things.
 
I feel you OP, I'm no good at new fighting games either. Back before everything was super combo heavy, I was a lot better due to not having to remember all those inputs, and I could focus more on the fundamentals. That was also when I had the attention span/time to throw hours at a game to get better at it, and had friends in the same room to practice with. I still buy almost every fighting game that comes out, but I mainly play through whatever story content, perform all the supers, play a little online and then shelve it. To me that's worth it though, I gave up on ever being serious in Online play.
 
The paradox is that you can't get your fundamentals down unless you play actual players.

Footies, zoning, execution, and pretty much most of fundies is learned through practice first, real fights second. If you are practicing fundies through online matches straight up, you are going to have issues.
 
I know that feeling bro, that's why i dropped them at an early age.

But i'm counting on picking up USIV for PS4 and start training forreal.
 
Don't worry OP I am bad at every fighting game not named Smash bros.

Aaaand this is me. I can handle Smash just fine, although I'm not the best at it - I can go to For Glory 1on1 and expect to win only against about 20% of players.

I could also come to terms with the Naruto Gekitou Ninja Taisen series. Landing a special move was sooooo satisfying.
 
I just play the story mode on easy then never mention the game to people who may want to play against me.

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I kind of suck at execution but I got fairly good at mind games.

It doesn't get you especially far (someone who's good at execution will still end up figuring you out and winning eventually), but you get enough wins under your belt to feel pretty good about playing the game.
 
I'm also not good at fighting games ..except for smash bros. I blame the slow clunky. Tank like movement in street fighter. Why can't I move freely like a butterfly like I do I smash :(
 
There are actually a lot of good resources for getting better at fighting games. I know Ultrachen (Ultra david and old man James Chen, two of the more renowned American commentators) have pretty comprehensive guides for most games that release as well as youtube channels like Vesper arcade

http://www.twitch.tv/ultrachentv/profile/past_broadcasts if you go to the past broadcasts here, you can find a lot of recent MKX information, including just a very basic summary of each character, as well as more advanced stuff (such as run downs on mortal kombat option selects.....don't worry about that for now)

there was also a recent tournament with very high level play for this stage in mortal kombat X's life, which you can find under past broadcasts here http://www.twitch.tv/nycfurby


Like most things though, getting good at fighting games is a lot about knowing how to learn. You need to be able to identify the rules and concepts of the game in order to identify what you are doing wrong. For example, what you say is unavoidable high low mixups some characters can't even do (most can though, high low in this game is actually pretty crazy, just gotta avoid the situation) and when approaching others and feeling like they have greater priority, well that is probably just them having better footsies (weaving in and out of the range of your attacks and challenging with their own once they feel that you are in range of theirs, sort of), or you not knowing a safe approach (such as you rarely want to dash forward in MKX, because running foward, although it uses stamina and therefore prevents you from breaking, is cancelable to any button including attacks and more importantly the block button)

for combos, I don't know if this helps but Mortal Kombat X combo system is so that as long as you input the next move within the start up of the move you did prior, it will come out. No matter what (not withstanding option selects) Even on whiff. Most combos in mortal kombat are generally easier to do because of this, but like 3d fighters Mortal Kombat requires a solid amount of memorization. When it comes to combos, it is really just practice. There are always basic bread and butters for each character that you want to know, start with just focusing and applying a few of those (I.E. combos off of high an combos off of low), before trying to incorporate more. Don't practice combos that are only possible off a slow start up mid for example, because something like that will only be needed for hard punishes even if it looks cool or does the most damage

As a general rule though, you want to focus more on how players are putting themselves in situations to land their combo, the benefits of certain combos as opposed to others, and what combos work in what situations (confirms, becomes one of the more important aspects later on). Once you understand these things you will be able to better understand what your opponent is looking for, and use that to your advantage (by reading them)


Mortal Kombat X does have terrible netcode though, so footsies and reaction times often will give way to bad footsies and predictions as opposed to reactions, but I digress.

I know the learning curve is some what steep, but very few things are more rewarding. Try to realize that frustration will only leaving you banging your head on the wall trying the same things over and over, and that will stunt your growth. I could write an essay of advice but there are better sources than me for that

Regardless of what some people said, fundamentals such as spacing and footsies transition to almost any fighting game, even learning combos will be easier to some degree as well.

Good luck getting gud
 
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