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[GnawtyDog]

"We’ve made the best fucking game system we could" - They made a system where they get profit from day 1, not the best gaming system they could offer (not having ssds its such a shame in the current consoles)

Also they just won because MS f***ed it up with their daily-online-ping and entertainment stuff, PS4 was hyped big time just because they just build a ps3 with better hardware. Their whole reveal event felt like "We dont do the things MS does"

Umm.... there are lots of things the new consoles do that old ones don't, both the PS4 and Xbox One. The PS4 isn't just a PS3 with better hardware....

It's misleading (or to better phrase it - disingenuous) to insinuate that what MS offered was positive innovation vs. lack thereof by its competitor (aka status quo).

 

[DidntKnowJack]

MS' focus on TV TV TV really stunned me. It was immediately evident that was the wrong move to make because that market is so different than it was just 10 short years ago. Its like their minds were stuck in the aughts. It was such an odd miscalculation.

 

[Toki767]

Yeah and the only reason the PS1 was so popular was because Nintendo and Sega screwed up. Sony never deserve any credit.

SMH. It's not like Sony just stumbled onto their current success, they had a good plan and capitalised on their competitors mistakes, which is how competitive markets should work.

I still don't understand why Microsoft seemed to think they were untouchable, they finished last gen basically second equal with Sony.

Mattrick was more arrogant than Kutaragi ever was.

"We’ve made the best fucking game system we could" - They made a system where they get profit from day 1, not the best gaming system they could offer (not having ssds its such a shame in the current consoles)

Also they just won because MS f***ed it up with their daily-online-ping and entertainment stuff, PS4 was hyped big time just because they just build a ps3 with better hardware. Their whole reveal event felt like "We dont do the things MS does"

That is some incredible revisionist history considering the PS4 was revealed months before the Xbox One.

 

[Faustek]

MS marketing ninja trying to spin the thread I see.

Lol god no. I've been so critical, still am, about MS so that I would be forced to pay MS if I worked for them.

?

Wrong thread?

Title says F***cking .

MS' focus on TV TV TV really stunned me. It was immediately evident that was the wrong move to make because that market is so different than it was just 10 short years ago. Its like their minds were stuck in the aughts. It was such an odd miscalculation.

To be honest I think they where just to quick about it. Better they do it like Sony now. Slowly introduce these features as a second thing adding the illusion of, more, value on the already established box.

 

[Pyramid head]

Yeah, he nailed it with the summary. Microsoft was peddling the Xbox as a jack of all trades but in the end it was a master of none. Sony on the other hand...

Seriously though, I was pretty hyped the the next MS console having been a 360 owner for the whole generation. Even though the last 2 years of that time span had been pretty dry, I kind of assumed that MS were just holding a crap load of games back for their next machine.

Then I watched that reveal.

To this day it's still boggles my mind just how terrible pretty much every decision was that MS made regarding this console.

 

[FranXico]

Their whole reveal event felt like "We dont do the things MS does"

Considering Sony revealed the PS4 before Microsoft, that would have been impressive in its own right.

 

[MavFan619]

X1 is better entertainment hub for sure.

And yet even as an owner of both because my PS4 is my general gaming machine exclusives and otherwise it's still my go to for entertainment when the games go off by default. I love the entertainment features of the Xbox One (it has DLNA, awesome) but by virtue of how little I use it for its primary(?) focus of gaming those too see little use for me.

 

[mazpratim]

Why are we so sure Sony "won"? obviously they are dominating now but the gen is still young, MS can't do anything to close the gap?

Sony were at a worse condition than MS last gen and they still managed to recover and close the gap, so i wouldn't call it "victory" just yet.

This gen has been over for a while now in terms of who gets first place, Xbox doesn't have the worldwide appeal that the PS3 had to catch up

 

[IndoAssassin]

Uhm, so I've seen fuck/yadayada/etc thrown around many times here. I don't really care since my grandma could probably embaress most of us here with her foul tounge, if she felt like it, but is that something that is censored now?
I mean what if I wanna say cock-titty-kaka? Or sing Swedish songs about penis's and vulvas?

I'm dizzy

 

[kruis]

Microsoft was cursed by their corporate mandate. The whole point of Xbox in the first place was to trojan horse a set top box that would let MS become the gatekeeper for Internet-delivered media in the living room. "TV TV TV" was the point of Xbox in the first place. Everyone at MS was shackled to this plan.

The gaming business isn't central at all to Microsoft's vision. Microsoft wants to compete with Google and Apple. In that light, a TV media box that can run Windows RT apps and console games to battle Apple TV and HDTVs running Android TV looked like a good idea. MS completely took their success in the US for granted, probably thought they'd be able to expand on that once they were able to tap into a mass audience who wanted a do-it-all media box you could activate with your voice and hands. Oh yeah, and let's add tons of DRM to it to make sure that gamers don't own the games they have. It's a vision of a games console that's conceived by people who are not gamers at all.

Sony may be a tech conglomerate producing TVs, AV receivers, Blu-Ray players, DSLR cameras, phones, etc etc. but the man in charge has been in the gaming business for twenty years and he put a games developer in charge of the PS4 projects. Gaming was central to their vision of the PS4. Sony knew what the gaming public wanted, MS had no clue at all.

 

[Leb]

Is it really fair to declare Sony the winner just because the PS4 has a decisive and insurmountable lead and when no reasonable scenario exists by which this state of affairs could be reversed?

 

[GnawtyDog]

Why are we so sure Sony "won"? obviously they are dominating now but the gen is still young, MS can't do anything to close the gap?

Sony were at a worse condition than MS last gen and they still managed to recover and close the gap, so i wouldn't call it "victory" just yet.

You would have to come up with some weird math to make a comeback possible.

Is it really fair to declare Sony the winner just because the PS4 has a decisive and insurmountable lead and when no reasonable scenario exists by which this state of affairs could be reversed?

It's done.

 

[Toki767]

Is it really fair to declare Sony the winner just because the PS4 has a decisive and insurmountable lead and when no reasonable scenario exists by which this state of affairs could be reversed?

Well Mattrick declared victory for the 360 after 10 million consoles. So going by Microsoft logic, the battle is already over.

 

[Surface of Me]

MS fucking up just further confirms the 3rd console curse.


You think they would've seen history, but nope. You should never get to cocky as a console maker in this industry.

 

[X-arlo]

"Xbox is about to become the next watercooler"

This was the moment I realized it wasn't a machine designed for gamers.

yeah... also because it doesn't make any fucking sense. I suppose they were going for something like "from now on watercooler discussions will all be about what you watched on your Xbox last night".

 

[Joni]

Why are we so sure Sony "won"? obviously they are dominating now but the gen is still young, MS can't do anything to close the gap?

Sony were at a worse condition than MS last gen and they still managed to recover and close the gap, so i wouldn't call it "victory" just yet.

Because victory is partially a matter of convincing the market you have won. Sony declared themselves the winner of the PlayStation 2 generation before the others even had the chance to get going. Microsoft didn't manage to declare themselves the winner the last generation, they failed in their initial goal of selling 10 million before the competition launched and they were quickly overshadowed by something else, the Wii. And partially because last generation, Microsoft had the headstart and they had Sony that fucked up, they still lost that race.

 

[AmyS]

Their sole presence in the gaming industry has been more or less an strategic deterrent to Apple entering the industry (ultimately the living room). Not that it matters that much (Apple has the cap and cash) but it does. MS trying to get a head start before Apple into the living room = Xbox. MS could care less about Sony or Nintendo, or gaming as a whole (other than being the starting point).

The reason Microsoft entered the console industry was always about trying to prevent Sony from completely taking over the living room. At the time, the PS2 was seen as a Trojan horse -- a game console that would become the center of the living room -- DVD movies, eventually an internet appliance, which never really panned out until PS3 and PS4, but anyway, that's what Microsoft feared in 1999-2000 as PS2 was coming into existence.

 

[Kyoufu]

MS' focus on TV TV TV really stunned me. It was immediately evident that was the wrong move to make because that market is so different than it was just 10 short years ago. Its like their minds were stuck in the aughts. It was such an odd miscalculation.

It didn't stun me at all. Anyone who has been paying attention to Microsoft's direction with the 360 circa 2009 would have seen this coming. They went from a games focused system and message from the 360 launch to an entertainment box with "revolutionary" motion control capabilities when they unveiled Project Natal.

Remember this?

Their shift in direction made me not care for them anymore. From good developer support from even Japan to fake Kinect demonstrations on stage. The whole DRM thing was just another slap in the face.

 

[Raide]

Sony have done a great job at focusing on what MS messed up on, alongside their own previous-gen weaknesses. Hopefully Sony don't go all big headed and squander their current lead. Its early days yet. Though I wonder what happens with Nintendo potentially rushing their next console?

As of now, nothing on the PS4 appeals to me but a price drop might get me to impulse buy one anyway. Need all the consoles!

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Also they just won because MS f***ed it up with their daily-online-ping and entertainment stuff, PS4 was hyped big time just because they just build a ps3 with better hardware. Their whole reveal event felt like "We dont do the things MS does"

Never mind the fact PS4 was revealed, erm, y'know...3 months before the Xbox One?

 

[GnawtyDog]

The reason Microsoft entered the console industry was always about trying to prevent Sony from completely taking over the living room. At the time, the PS2 was seen as a Trojan horse -- a game console that would become the center of the living room -- DVD movies, eventually an internet appliance, which never really panned out until PS3 and PS4, but anyway, that's what Microsoft feared in 1999-2000 as PS2 was coming into existence.

We all know this is what had Gates shook...

 

[Any Questions]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

TV TV dog sports sports TV

I look at this man and see a prat.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Is it really fair to declare Sony the winner just because the PS4 has a decisive and insurmountable lead and when no reasonable scenario exists by which this state of affairs could be reversed?

Last gen Sony launched late and with a stupid price, so at the start MS wiped the floor with them. Once the impact of the launch delay was lessened by time, and they dropped the price, Sony came back. Also the hardware was much more equal.

This time, price is more or less equal, Sony has not had a head start, Sony has what appears to be a much faster console. How can MS catch up? They have Halo...but they have already fucked up one iteration of that franchise. More new killer first party IP? Maybe...but the track record is not that great.

 

[Raist]

Why are we so sure Sony "won"? obviously they are dominating now but the gen is still young, MS can't do anything to close the gap?

Sony were at a worse condition than MS last gen and they still managed to recover and close the gap, so i wouldn't call it "victory" just yet.

The main reason why the PS3 was in a "worse condition" is because it launched much later. It eventually sold as well as the 360, in a shorter period of time.

 

[El-Suave]

The focus on TV, social apps and home entertainment wasn't so much a grand vision - it was the only way they could justify including Kinect and the price tag that came with it. MS must have been well aware that that thing is useless for gaming even in its improved state.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Pretty much, the PS4 is basically the Allard 360 (except strong in all regions) with the games first focus, whereas the Xbone is the Kutaragi super smorgasborg of trying to do too much in addition to bad third party ports PS3.

Pretty much nailed it.

Everything about the PS4 in the run up to release was pure Allard/Bach/Moore 360. The hype, the way they revealed the console, the future potential they teased, their whole approach to the gaming community, it was early 360 mixed with cut throat Sony looking to take back their throne.

 

[GnawtyDog]

The main reason why the PS3 was in a "worse condition" is because it launched much later. It eventually sold as well as the 360, in a shorter period of time.

The main reason was price me thinks. MS didn't have that much of a leg-start in terms of units shipped.

 

[Rymuth]

Sony may be a tech conglomerate producing TVs, AV receivers, Blu-Ray players, DSLR cameras, phones, etc etc. but the man in charge has been in the gaming business for twenty years and he put a games developer in charge of the PS4 projects. Gaming was central to their vision of the PS4. Sony knew what the gaming public wanted, MS had no clue at all.

A mod summed it up pretty nicely. To paraphrase his quote "The guy that designed PS4 was wearing an engineer apron. The guy who designed Xbox One was wearing a suit."

 

[Surface of Me]

The main reason why the PS3 was in a "worse condition" is because it launched much later. It eventually sold as well as the 360, in a shorter period of time.

If you think the PS3 was more successful than the 360, you are delusional.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Why are we so sure Sony "won"? obviously they are dominating now but the gen is still young, MS can't do anything to close the gap?

Sony were at a worse condition than MS last gen and they still managed to recover and close the gap, so i wouldn't call it "victory" just yet.

MS doesn't have Japan and EU regions to help them bridge the gap like Sony did last gen.

Sony's already carved out a commanding lead and there's absolutely zero possibility of the gap ever closing.

It's Wii vs GC...

 

[Charles Brandon]

If you think the PS3 was more successful than the 360, you are delusional.

That statement is factually correct though...

 

[Raist]

The main reason was price me thinks. MS didn't have that much of a leg-start in terms of units shipped.

That too, but my point is that the 360 was starting its second year (or already well into its second year in EU) when the PS3 launched. Sales always increase and peak at year 3-4 generally, so when looking at a given point in time early during gen 7, yes it seemed like the PS3 was getting severely outsold. But that was an important factor to take into consideration.

And yes, then there was pricing etc. Despite this, if you look at launch aligned figures, it was actually not all that different.

 

[AmyS]

We all know this is what had Gates shook...

LoL.

True, true

 

[Faustek]

If you think the PS3 was more successful than the 360, you are delusional.

Wonder which company actually lost more.
MS was able to hide many of its losses from the 360, Sony could not mitigate the damage as MS could.....so the winner is Nintendo?


Edit: as in who lost more cash.

 

[EVA UNIT 01]

Of course sony killed it.
They hired the greatest salesman of all time.
Don Mattrick.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I wouldn't go that far. They didn't nail anything, they just did nothing wrong. Their success is largely down to Microsofts failings.

The only real positive thing they did was the push / help with indies.

 

[UnforgivenTwin]

I look at this man and see a prat.

Ughh. I get angry watching this.

 

[Randam]

Sony didn't nail anything.
MS just fucked up big time.

 

[Charles Brandon]

It's probably more likely that MS will fall further behind. The momentum is behind Sony now in all regions, exclusivities and "lead platform" deals will follow. We could see a real tailing off of Xbone sales similar to how the N64 started well against the PSX as brand loyalty for Nintendo held firm but rapidly fell away as it became clearer and clearer that all those games that would once have been on a Nintendo platform, were now heading to Sony.

 

[Omni]

It's still very disappointing. MS really messed up.

On the other hand though, I'm kinda excited to see what happens next gen. I feel like MS will come out kicking if they stay in the console business.

 

[kmax]

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Why are we so sure Sony "won"? obviously they are dominating now but the gen is still young, MS can't do anything to close the gap?

Sony were at a worse condition than MS last gen and they still managed to recover and close the gap, so i wouldn't call it "victory" just yet.

Microsoft has no cards left to play- All they have is US and UK (and Brazil?) and even then they're losing out (except for Brazil?). And this is with drastic price cuts.

Sony has Europe and Asia and the rest of the world. And this is WITHOUT a single price cut.

 

[Raide]

Microsoft has no cards left to play- All they have is US and UK (and Brazil?) and even then they're losing out (except for Brazil?). And this is with drastic price cuts.

Sony has Europe and Asia and the rest of the world. And this is WITHOUT a single price cut.

People are fickle and get bored quickly. People's interests shift on a dime and loyalty to one company over another can quickly shift.

MS just need to make games people want. I am actually very interested to see what his whole Windows 10 thing does for the console overall. That alone is more interesting to me than what Sony have done so far.

 

[justsomeguy]

I still shake my head at how bad the initial MS focus and reveal was. I am sure it will be a case study in MBA courses for years to come.

That said, I am happy enough with my Xbox One - it's getting trounced in sales and mindshare compared to PS4, but that doesn't make the games bad. (If only a few more exclusives were coming out at the moment...!)

 

[Faustek]

Sony didn't nail anything.
MS just fucked up big time.

They had an awesome first/second party output the years before PS4 was announced making damned sure they where kept in everyone's mind space as something positive.
They introduced IGC*

Then PS4. They introduced a machine that was easily identifiable as the "stronger" one.
They had no "Working man's graphics".
And yes, they didn't fuck up. Wonderbook anyone? :|

But just saying that MS gave them the Victory is rather dishonest. Ignoring all the work they had done prior.

* = Instant Game collection

 

[Charles Brandon]

yeah the only way out of this is one or two fucking amazing exclusive games. Games that EVERYONE will want, not just Xbox heads or even gamers in general. They need something like Super Mario Bros, Tetris, Wii Sports, even a Call of Duty. A game that people-who-don't-otherwise-like-games will play.

Maybe Halo 5 will be that game. Maybe the new Rare title will be.

 

[Drifters]

He's right. I just wish we could somehow transplant XBL into PSN and make it work just as good as XBL does.

 

[Faustek]

Maybe the new Rare title will be.

Nah, Yooka-Laylee is multiplat.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

At least I now know what machine to get if they ever make Skate 4

 

[jabuseika]

MS aimed for a non-existent market.

The wealthy tech savy cable watching sports fan that didn't mind buying all new games and playing with motion controls.

Sony aimed at gamers.