Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
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chromatic9
Member
I'll wait till the game comes out. The Witcher 3 media released has been a bit odd, like that unfinished cliff top and crude looking Knight armour in official trailers which were fixed later on. Nvidia trailer is mixture of old and new. This screenshot below is from Nvidia, supposedly. I'm doubting the castle wall is just some crude paired up texture in the full game. We've seen it much better not long ago.
Certainly in general (not talking about the screenshot) the grass and weeds are lacking in detail and many other changes. Earlier stuff looks like target render though.
Certainly in general (not talking about the screenshot) the grass and weeds are lacking in detail and many other changes. Earlier stuff looks like target render though.
Not all compression is equal. Just look at the pictures, the second one is just a big blur (you can't tell at all what the textures are like) and while the first one isn't great either you can still see a lot more detail.
Yep, agreed. Just give me a great game. I do think it's a bit of a bait and switch though, since they likely knew there was no way they could get those effects on the hardware of today. Won't impact me personally, but i can understand people getting upset.
Why is there even an argument over whether or not it's been "downgraded?" Is there some console war nonsense I'm missing?
Anyway, it looks really, really disappointing, borderline misleading. The Dark Souls II "downgrade" looks totally reasonable by comparison. CDPR remind me of early Crytek, which is not at all a good thing.
Anyway, it looks really, really disappointing, borderline misleading. The Dark Souls II "downgrade" looks totally reasonable by comparison. CDPR remind me of early Crytek, which is not at all a good thing.
It has a weather system but no seasonal system.
What you're seeing there isn't some fog that only came up because it's the winter and there's a storm coming which brought more fog ect ect ect.
That's just the game having reduced draw distance.
XxRampage07xX
Member
Yes but it still has better quality than the other one.
Is this the level of discussion that follows when a narrative is established? I'm saying only reasonably that there are factors that aren't being considered in those screens.
If it just gets a dumbfounded reaction gif then mission accomplished, I will stop posting.
Interficium
Banned
They should do like, a documentary on dudes who do all the red-lined "this is the smoking gun!" conspiracy-theory pictures on vidya game downgrades and women targeted by gamergate.
I bet they're an interesting bunch.
I bet they're an interesting bunch.
Is that screen from a video then? Does it change during the video or is it static?
My two biggest issues are one directly at CDProjekt Red and the other about gaming in general.
1.) I love the respect CDprojekt has for their customers but what I am not as cool with is the blatant lying about the downgrade. It puts them on the same level as Ubisoft and EA and I know they are better then that
2.)If this is something inescapable due to the development process, then re-label your early footage and don't promise that this will be what players will have their hands on.
1.) I love the respect CDprojekt has for their customers but what I am not as cool with is the blatant lying about the downgrade. It puts them on the same level as Ubisoft and EA and I know they are better then that
2.)If this is something inescapable due to the development process, then re-label your early footage and don't promise that this will be what players will have their hands on.
Zomba13
Member
It's just to be expected now. This was downgraded, DS2 was, Batman will be, Rainbow Six Siege and The Division will be. Hell, even Zelda might end up looking worse that what was shown though to be fair Nintendo were smart and gave us a teaser picture with some possible in game after it and then everything else has been shitty off screen capture so we can't really compare that to the final version.
Is game AAA? If yes expect game to look worse than every piece of pre-release media.
If no then it's probably an indie game with realistic graphics so you're good.
Obliterator
Member
Man the more I compare that original footage to what we currently have, there's no doubt there's a substantial downgrade. Now there has also been a change in general art design, with Witcher 3 becoming brighter and more colorful than the original footage. That said, while it does account for some of the change, from a tech point of view it has also seen some big hits in some areas.
I'm still beyond stoked for this game, and I'm willing to bet that it is going to review great with both critics and gamers. But yeah, that downgrade is pretty large and really disappointing.
I'm still beyond stoked for this game, and I'm willing to bet that it is going to review great with both critics and gamers. But yeah, that downgrade is pretty large and really disappointing.
The short grass doesn't cast shadows, no. Some of the taller ground foliage does, though.
As distracting and annoying as the weird tree pop in effect from the camera angles is there is no denying it is a gorgeous game. Especially given that it's open world. Seeing the videos I'm just not seeing how anyone can look at those same videos and be upset about what's on display. Are people not looking at the same videos or something? This is not a case of a game being revealed looking fantastic and then releasing looking like total ass like Watch_Dogs. What I see here is either differing weather conditions or moderate effects scaling for performance reasons with minimal impact on the final product. I don't see the parallel to the insanity that was WD reveal to release at all.
The top one could never run on todays consoles in a huge open world, and would take a super beefy PC, I think we learned that by now. Add in the costs to develop an entire world to the top screen level, and what you have is an expensive game to make with a small market.
The model/world detail difference between top and bottom is huge, so much so that it would be like creating two game worlds, which they likely did not have schedule or budget for. It is unfortunate that they aimed too high and released that footage however.
There is no doubt that many assets have been scaled back in order to hit perfomance. A downgrade happened. It's honestly not even arguable. I've mentioned it for weeks.
That said, not everything took a hit, and some things turned out better. Game still looks good.
I'm more disappointed in CDPR for outright lying about it.
That said, not everything took a hit, and some things turned out better. Game still looks good.
I'm more disappointed in CDPR for outright lying about it.
Stay, man. Your posts were very reasonable.
Thanks. I'll give that a watch before returning to the discussion.
chromatic9
Member
Would be a shame if it's not available on PC. You can see it running in real time here in this gameplay vid. This is the newer style build as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtllw4sRXp8
Saintguine
Member
I'm really disappointed in CDPR showing a bullshot trailer and then downgrading it. I mean the downgraded visuals still looks really nice so why not just show in the initial trailer those instead of trying to lie to the public? It breeds attitudes in the consumers concentrating on what the product could have been instead of the actual product itself and it's not doing any goodwill towards consumers.
Yes, it is downgraded. I planned to always get this on console regardless, so the downgrade isn't a surprise on my end since hey, I knew the original footage was not possible even on the PS4.
Maybe it's my mindset, but pretty much all initial footage I see of a game that looks completely unbelievable... I mark as target render footage. Basically, they may be doing all that stuff in engine, but what we're seeing is their ideal target, not what they are actually going to end up producing. When you start viewing it always as that, this stuff is less disappointing.
CDPR stating rather boldly it isn't downgraded is a separate issue entirely.That's lying. Either, it was a lie when they showed the initial footage as the actual game at that time didn't look like that, so it wasn't actually downgraded because the game never looked that good, or they lied in saying it wasn't downgraded literally, when it actually was. Neither are good.
Keep in mind, I feel the game still looks really good, at least what I gather from the ultra settings via YouTube. But there are certainly moments that make me realize it's not the same thing. To me, it's obvious in the tree branches blowing in the wind. The leaves at least felt like if I saw them in the initial footage, they would move indepedent. Instead, the leaves and the branches move together in huge bunches, which isn't how it works in the real world.
The game still looks good, and prior witcher games tell me this is going to be a can't miss WRPG experience. But... yeah. To me, I have no issues with downgrades. My issue is that publishers/developers seem reluctant to just own up to it. We get it, initial reveals are for hype. Just like CGI trailers. Just be more honest about it.
Maybe it's my mindset, but pretty much all initial footage I see of a game that looks completely unbelievable... I mark as target render footage. Basically, they may be doing all that stuff in engine, but what we're seeing is their ideal target, not what they are actually going to end up producing. When you start viewing it always as that, this stuff is less disappointing.
CDPR stating rather boldly it isn't downgraded is a separate issue entirely.That's lying. Either, it was a lie when they showed the initial footage as the actual game at that time didn't look like that, so it wasn't actually downgraded because the game never looked that good, or they lied in saying it wasn't downgraded literally, when it actually was. Neither are good.
Keep in mind, I feel the game still looks really good, at least what I gather from the ultra settings via YouTube. But there are certainly moments that make me realize it's not the same thing. To me, it's obvious in the tree branches blowing in the wind. The leaves at least felt like if I saw them in the initial footage, they would move indepedent. Instead, the leaves and the branches move together in huge bunches, which isn't how it works in the real world.
The game still looks good, and prior witcher games tell me this is going to be a can't miss WRPG experience. But... yeah. To me, I have no issues with downgrades. My issue is that publishers/developers seem reluctant to just own up to it. We get it, initial reveals are for hype. Just like CGI trailers. Just be more honest about it.
ColonialRaptor
Member
This is absurd. How can you make that decision before the game has been released and proper "like to Like" has been performed.
Every picture is taken at a different time of day, with different weather and under different circumstances. Surely the differences aren't enough to cause this kind of reaction when it comes down to it. It's just crazy to think like this.
If there is a serious downgrade then I would be disappointed also but at the end of their YouTube videos they still link to the sword of destiny trailer where all of this comes from so it can't be that much different.
Also, when people realized kill zone wasn't going to be as the original trailer did this happen? I remember that was probably the first big "downgrade" outrage.
For all we know an astute .ini modder will release some minor mods that give you the choice of desaturating the world and sharpening the edges of all the grass and foliage, but I ask you this. What makes foliage more reliastic. Seeing clumps of it as a non focus item in a scene you're viewing or focusing on the things that really matter in the scene like the characters and the monsters.
I'm sure there maybe have been some slight customization to the game to streamline things and perhaps make the game run more efficiently, but it's still going to be probably one of the two best looking games of all time and we haven't got the actual game to judge by yet. They're showing us tid bits of early parts of the game. When the amazing crazy out there parts of the game are found from later on I'm sure there will be some incredible looking places.
It's not the technology, it's the art style that makes things look good and at this level of construction and with the artists CDPR have I'm convinced I'm going to be wowed so often I'll be posting screenshots ALL the time in the PC screenshot thread.
At least wait until more "like to like" images are posted when they can be captured, and especially people need to stop with the early vids vs console pics.
Please 19th just hurry up!
This sort of downgrade mentality needs to be stopped so CDPR really need to address it IMO.
I agree. What I'm seeing in the new footage is amazing and I don't see any across the board discrepancy between earlier footage and how the game looks now. I still maintain that the earlier trailers impressed so much because they were well edited and contained mostly epic cutscene footage.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Has anyone presented screens that aren't compressed and that we actually know the settings of yet? Because otherwise I don't see how this is anything but a disingenuous conversation.
Ok i'm sorry, so, you are saying there is no downgrade on those 2 pics because that's not how real life weather works? but do you still think the game is downgraded overall? i'm sorry for putting this gif again.
longdi
Banned
It just looks better because there are more things happening. Seems to have way higher polygons animations than the actual game.
Geralt armor looks more like metal because of the increased rounded-ness. His butt movement is so realistically meaty, i doubt it can be rendered realtime for now. The lighting is also way better.
That's what I was asking about.
Devs: "lets bury the highest quality assets and some of the best aspects of our graphics and pretend they were never gone"
Community: "okay we'll find em and re-implement them"
Devs: "We'll make it a treasure hunt"
Community: "Game on!"
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You mean besides the different time of day and the fact that the second image used for comparison is compressed to hell and back?
Things change during development.
Talk about selective reading. You have completely misrepresented my argument. All I said was that the conditions in those screens do not make for a fair basis of comparing old to new. I was very specific about what I was referring to.
EmptySpace
Banned
what is this bullshit?
different time of day, different season, different everything.
"amazing atmosphere" ahahahah that's downright comical.
A bit of compression reduces the draw distance by half?
Reduced the foliage?
Remove the smoke from the buildings?
What seasons? This game has no seasons.
And what do you mean different everything? It's literally in the exact same location.
Pretty silly apples to oranges comparison. That scene has been so completely reworked it's pointless to compare them. Completely different lighting and atmospheric conditions, vegetation types, object placement, etc. How is such a comparison going to tell you anything useful? Subjectively they are both equally appealing to my eyes.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
"A bit of compression," dude that picture is so compressed that the assets, especially foliage look like blobs. Also, like I said, things change during development, a grassy field not looking like the exact same grassy field from years ago is not a downgrade. SaberEdge noted above what I am saying.
DOWN
Banned
You say this like the bottom image would be as stunning without compression as the top image despite missing chimney smoke, twisters, dramatically higher draw distance, birds in the sky and environment, and well shaded foliage.
Regardless of that specific image: Either they somehow lost all their talents for selectiveness after the VGX trailer was shown so that the game has never looked as good since, or there's people here in denial mode despite the innumerable independent reactions to all recent imagery being disappointed in comparison to initial images.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Maybe it would be if we actually had good comparison images instead of shit from /v/. Not counting all the dynamic elements as well. Like twisters or birds in the sky.
What about the draw distance?
Surprised that some of you didn't see this coming after this happened...
family_guy
Member
Just don't like the new color palette as much. Preferred the darker tone.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Weather is dynamic, so for all we know there was fog during that specific TOD that changes during the day.
jim-jam bongs
Member
The NPC in the bottom right corner is photo-realistic, I'd call that an upgrade.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
Jesus, gamers nowadays be like:
All jokes aside though - those are some noticeable differences, have they said anything about this yet? I still plan to get the game but not right away but wow!
All jokes aside though - those are some noticeable differences, have they said anything about this yet? I still plan to get the game but not right away but wow!
Much like valve with steam, never treat companies as your friend. They are never your friend.
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