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[Denton]

Whether there is an actual downgrade or not, the difference in tone and attitude between accusations toward this game and something like Watch Dogs is like night and day. When the downgrade for the latter happened, people were practically baying for blood, but when it happens to CD Projekt it's met with a response of mass denial and agitated "oh ffs" comments. I guess the determining factor for how highly a downgradathon rates on the Holy Fuck Shitstorm scale is which developer is making the game.

Well it helps that both Witcher 1 and 2 looked better in final version compared to prerelease footage, and that CDP has infinitely better reputation for very good reasons, and that the game itself looks much better and more ambitious than anything Ubisoft put out in the last ten years.

 

[His Majesty]

There seems to be a disconnect here.

The detractors aren't saying the game doesn't look good, it really does.

However, they are pointing out blatant downgrades, which runs contrary to CDPR claim of no downgrades.

CDPR lied and mislead.

It's literally that simple.



SaberEdge doing that pointless damage control.

The game still looks good, but CDPR straight up lied.

The people who are using the footage from a one-minute trailer from 2013 and measuring all other footage from 2014 and 2015 against it are misleading themselves. CDProjekt showed the first playable build at E3 2014 and compared to that there has been no downgrade. You have seen hours of footage since then so I really don't know how you can claim that CDProjekt lied to you and tried to mislead you with a straight face.

 

[dgrdsv]

My biggest fear is this is already the peak for PS4 and Xbox One but it hopefully isn't.

But it is.

And the game wasn't downgraded.

 

[plasmawave]

But it is.

And the game wasn't downgraded.

Oh god...

 

[Chinner]

But it is.

And the game wasn't downgraded.

the graphics are going to become worse.

have you seen MGSV?

that game was downgraded big time too.

 

[Summer Haze]

I'm looking forward to this game immensely...but I am prepared to acknowledge a downgrade, which in my opinion, is pretty large and obvious. I remember watching those first trailers and being absolutely blown away, and while the most recent gameplay videos still look fantastic, they don't look as good as those earlier builds.

With that being said, I understand that games change in development. Builds change. I don't hold any ill will towards CDPR at all, it's just a little disappointing is all to be shown one thing and get another. But thankfully the game we're getting still looks arguably better than any other open world game.

 

[Majanew]

Downgrades suck, but devs don't care. Seems like Watch Dogs got a pretty big backlash and it still sold over 10 million copies. So devs will just keep showing graphics they know they won't achieve.

 

[Jonm1010]

Whether there is an actual downgrade or not, the difference in tone and attitude between accusations toward this game and something like Watch Dogs is like night and day. When the downgrade for the latter happened, people were practically baying for blood, but when it happens to CD Projekt it's met with a response of mass denial and agitated "oh ffs" comments. I guess the determining factor for how highly a downgradathon rates on the Holy Fuck Shitstorm scale is which developer is making the game.

I think this is absolutely true.

 

[UrbanRats]

Whether there is an actual downgrade or not, the difference in tone and attitude between accusations toward this game and something like Watch Dogs is like night and day. When the downgrade for the latter happened, people were practically baying for blood, but when it happens to CD Projekt it's met with a response of mass denial and agitated "oh ffs" comments. I guess the determining factor for how highly a downgradathon rates on the Holy Fuck Shitstorm scale is which developer is making the game.

That's not very weird.
Having people's good will on your side gotta count for something.
If your best friend accidentally bumps into your car, you're going to be more lenient than if someone who constantly steals your mail and pisses on your doorstep every night, does.

That said, some of the reactions to the Watch Dogs downgrade were absolutely out of line, as usual with the Internet outrage machine.

In this case, i didn't look too far into it, but i don't doubt some downgrades happened, comparisons to Dark Souls 2 are crazy, since it's nothing of that magnitude at all, but beyond that, i'm fine with downgrades (as disappointing as they are) as long as the developers are clear about them in their marketing (something NAMCO didn't do with DkS2).
Downgrading is a reality of development, and you can't get mad at it; false advertisement is a scummy marketing practice though, and that you should get mad about.

 

[Blitzblotz]

It seems the scummy bait-and-switch technique is rampant in the industry today. Not only with games, but hardware such as the Xbox One, Hololens, Gfx 970 (lies about the memory) etc.

 

[Jonm1010]

That's not very weird.
Having people's good will on your side gotta count for something.
If your best friend accidentally bumps into your car, you're going to be more lenient than if someone who constantly steals your mail and pisses on your doorstep every night, does.

That said, some of the reactions to the Watch Dogs downgrade were absolutely out of line, as usual with the Internet outrage machine.

In this case, i didn't look too far into it, but i don't doubt some downgrades happened, comparisons to Dark Souls 2 are crazy, since it's nothing of that magnitude at all, but beyond that, i'm fine with downgrades (as disappointing as they are) as long as the developers are clear about them in their marketing (something NAMCO didn't do with DkS2).
Downgrading is a reality of development, and you can't get mad at it; false advertisement is a scummy marketing practice though, and that you should get mad about.

Cdprojekt wasnt and still hasn't been honest and clear about it though.

To me it is like a friend that I trusted asking me to not file a police report on the accident and then trying to screw me over when I trust his loyalty and agree.

It ends up having an even more sobering effect.

 

[Averon]

Whether there is an actual downgrade or not, the difference in tone and attitude between accusations toward this game and something like Watch Dogs is like night and day. When the downgrade for the latter happened, people were practically baying for blood, but when it happens to CD Projekt it's met with a response of mass denial and agitated "oh ffs" comments. I guess the determining factor for how highly a downgradathon rates on the Holy Fuck Shitstorm scale is which developer is making the game.

Not really surprising. CDPR built up a lot of goodwill over the years, so people are being more lenient with them than Ubisoft, who hadn't built up much goodwill. It also helps that CDPR has built a reputation of being "pro-consumer" and being nice guys that "say things like it is."

 

[Blade30]

The people who are using the footage from a one-minute trailer from 2013 and measuring all other footage from 2014 and 2015 against it are misleading themselves. CDProjekt showed the first playable build at E3 2014 and compared to that there has been no downgrade. You have seen hours of footage since then so I really don't know how you can claim that CDProjekt lied to you and tried to mislead you with a straight face.

Yeah and that is what people should think about, because since then the game hasn't had a downgrade but rather upgrades here and there.
Almost all (multiplatform) games have downgrades at some point, we just didn't get to see them that much before the Watch Dogs shitstorm.

I don't know if this was already talked about in here, but do some of you remember why CDP Red delayed the game in the first place (a year ago)?
In some interviews they said that they had some huge performance issues, especially on consoles which were like diashows. They got help with Umbra 3 and I think at that point the quality we've seen from the VGX trailer got reduced and the art direction changed.

 

[Jonm1010]

It seems the scummy bait-and-switch technique is rampant in the industry today. Not only with games, but hardware such as the Xbox One, Hololens, Gfx 970 (lies about the memory) etc.

Frankly I think we have gotten the videogames industry we deserve.

Which is unfortunate.

It is an industry where the most trusted journalists are still almost exclusively just producing work as fanboy enthusiasts. Acting mostly as unpaid marketing arms of the industry.

Where consumers by and large have put up with and allowed the industry to normalize almost every bad practice they have introduced over the years. Heck you get to a point where people will even defend them for doing it and try and shame others for not just accepting it. This thread is a bit of an illustration of that process at work.

 

[CryptiK]

Wtf, the new build clearly is upgraded in those shots unless you're blind in both eyes. Maybe you got mixed up about which ones are the old ones? I hope so.

The top ones are the old ones yes? If so you'd have to be blind not seeing the top ones are quite a lot better. Just because a picture has more flames in it doesnt make it better lol.

 

[Faith]

Some parts of the game were downgraded, but that's normal. The game wasn't even open-world when they showed the first trailer. The lighting is still as good as ever and they improved the animals & monsters.

I think it's still the best game I've ever seen in terms of visuals.

 

[Houndi101]

I think it's still the best game I've ever seen in terms of visuals.

Best sandbox game probably, but say what you will about The Order it's damn gorgeous visually.

 

[Faith]

Best sandbox game probably, but say what you will about The Order it's damn gorgeous visually.

So is Avatar (the movie), but I don't think we should compare apples and oranges.

 

[His Majesty]

Frankly I think we have gotten the videogames industry we deserve.

Which is unfortunate.

It is an industry where the most trusted journalists are still almost exclusively just producing work as fanboy enthusiasts. Acting mostly as unpaid marketing arms of the industry.

I agree. The IGN First articles were hilariously biased. But CDProjekt also invited a bunch of youtubers over who have shown their own recorded footage and impressions of the game. Also a bad practice I assume?

 

[SaberEdge]

Everyone wanting people to stop mentioning downgrades, I don't get it. If you're looking forward to a game this much, what should it matter that people are seeing downgrades from the original showcased version of the product?

Because this game doesn't show evidence of a generalized downgrade. If we cherrypick a couple spots that appear to have been downgraded but ignore the much larger number of areas we can directly compare that show upgrades or an equal degree of graphical quality then clearly all we are doing is disingenuously looking for things to downplay the game over. And that is exactly what some are doing with this game.

But an even more important reason is that these downgrade uproars have become a widespread problem in the gaming community and in a majority of cases it's just not right. Games like Infamous Second Son, Assassin's Creed Unity and others have been falsely and unjustifiably attacked over supposed downgrades (when these imagined downgrades were never true in the first place). I don't care if it's a game I like or not, if the attacks against it are wrong and unwarranted it should be defended and the record set straight.

The truth is, most downgrade claims are completely overblown or outright erroneous. Dark Souls 2 was the last truly justifiable uproar over a downgrade.

 

[Sagroth]

Honestly, this doesn't bother me too much. I was always going to play this on console anyhow, and this is far from, say, the Aliens: Colonial Marines demo-to-game debacle.

 

[maquiladora]

But it is.

And the game wasn't downgraded.

 

[DOWN]

So is Avatar (the movie), but I don't think we should compare apples and oranges.

You just compared it to all other games you've seen and then said not to compare

You:"Looks better than all of the others"
Him:"Even this one?"
You:

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

clearly downgraded. If anyone says other wise...well I don't know what to say.

 

[Acinixys]

Of course promotional footage from 2 years ago looks better than the finished product

Cant believe this argument has gone on for hundreds of pages already

99% of the moaners and complainers probably wont be able to play it on ultra anyway because they are either getting in on console or dont have a PC capable of pushing the power needed to get a solid 60 FPS

Just enjoy the game for the story and stop worrying that the grass doesn't have a shadow

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

WTF IS THAT ON HIS EYES ?

this remind me of this

DON'T CLICK IF YOU DON'T WANT NIGHTMARES

It's a she you know.

 

[Danielsan]

Completely on team downgrade. It still looks good, but more like a slightly upgraded Witcher 2. It certainly isn't blowing my mind visually.

 

[SaberEdge]

The top ones are the old ones yes? If so you'd have to be blind not seeing the top ones are quite a lot better. Just because a picture has more flames in it doesnt make it better lol.

So, having more flames, more specular highlights and more foliage is not an upgrade, but one corner of a structure having a badly placed cap of crumbly bricks along one segment is? Incredible.

I don't agree at all, but I'd love to hear your technical explanation for why the old ones are so much better.

 

[Klossen]

You just compared it to all other games you've seen and then said not to compare

Not him but I would take into consideration the genre and size of the game. I can pick a tech demo and say how that is the best-looking game ever, but that doesn't say much. I am off the belief that graphics should be judged by the size and scope of the game, not just how fancy the game looks in screenshots. An open-world game looking this nice is a tremendous feat.

 

[DOWN]

Maybe if I word it this way:

Before this thread existed, why has every piece of notable media for W3 garnered individually disappointed responses, now numbering in at least the hundreds, compared to its older footage?

Figure it out

 

[dark10x]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm feeling like this is he result of going full open world. That was always the plan but I suspect actually getting it to work as they hoped required a lot of compromise. Witcher 2 was a tiny, focused game. These guys were used to focusing on high quality visuals in small areas. Going full open world was always going to present new challenges.

 

[DOWN]

Not him but I would take into consideration the genre and size of the game. I can pick a tech demo and say how that is the best-looking game ever, but that doesn't say much. I am off the belief that graphics should be judged by the size and scope of the game, not just how fancy the game looks in screenshots. An open-world game looking this nice is a tremendous feat.

Good thing the thread is comparing W3 to older W3 then. I don't think anyone is saying the game looks bad or isn't still great for its structure.

 

[Doc Evils]

To me, it looks like the game got a dark souls 2 style lighting downgrade.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

Clear downgrade. Not obvious like we had with Watch_Dogs but still. Disappointing,

When's the review embargo lifts?

 

[Klossen]

Good thing the thread is comparing W3 to older W3 then. I don't think anyone is saying the game looks bad or isn't still great for its structure.

I'm not defending the downgrade, just explaining why someone might think this game looks better than The Order due to its size and scope. I shouldn't really have made that post anyways since it was off-topic. I'll stop now.

 

[Micerider]

Well, this thread makes the game seem like it's complete ass.

Exactly. For having watched a few streams of PS4 version, I can say it isn't looking bad in my eyes (quite the opposite actually). I actually find it superior to all RPG to date.

That said, it is valid to point what is NOT in line with the initial presentation. So I have no issues with the thread itself. I just have the impression that some are over-sensitive on the discrepancies and are ruining what could be a great game for themselves.

 

[dex3108]

Clear downgrade. Not obvious like we had with Watch_Dogs but still. Disappointing,

When's the review embargo lifts?

Next week May 12th. Most reviews will be PS4 version apparently.

 

[Faith]

You just compared it to all other games you've seen and then said not to compare

We could also compare it to tech demos if you want. But I'm talking about actual games with gameplay. With real gameplay.

 

[Spacecowboy77]

Next week May 12th. Most reviews will be PS4 version apparently.

Cheers. Guess I'll wait with the preorder, no rush

 

[flipswitch]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm feeling like this is he result of going full open world. That was always the plan but I suspect actually getting it to work as they hoped required a lot of compromise. Witcher 2 was a tiny, focused game. These guys were used to focusing on high quality visuals in small areas. Going full open world was always going to present new challenges.

I also think that they tailored the game around PS4/XB1 specs. It doesn't look like a huge upgrade from the second to third, but as you said it's open world now.

 

[Lumine]

Are you really spamming the internet with badly made pictures that compare not only different camera angles and lighting settings, they are super badly compressed tiny youtube screengrabs? Not only is that no way compare anything, it's kind of disrespectful to post this shit all over the internet. Some elements might have been downgraded for all I know, but it's hard to take this crap seriously. You could have at least waited until you got your hands on the final product and then make proper comparisons. Also it looks like the older stuff is using some sort of sharpening filter. Which I guess looks almost sort of good in tiny gifs, but otherwise I'm glad it's gone. I'm not denying there have been downgrades or not, just that it's almost impossible to tell with this kind of compression. And then yelling on the internet that you have been lied to and that the developers are frauds when this is all you have is pretty damn awkward.

 

[PnCIa]

Yeah looks like they removed some details. The comparison in the OP is bad though, different camera angles etc.
It still looks fuck awesome though.

 

[Chobel]

Huh, so dark10x thinks it was downgraded? I guess I'm joining team downgrade too.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

Exactly. For having watched a few streams of PS4 version, I can say it isn't looking bad in my eyes (quite the opposite actually). I actually find it superior to all RPG to date.

That said, it is valid to point what is NOT in line with the initial presentation. So I have no issues with the thread itself. I just have the impression that some are over-sensitive on the discrepancies and are ruining what could be a great game for themselves.

Exactly my thoughts on this issue.
Has there ever been a game that looked exactly like the reveal videos?

 

[Derp]

Guys... I... Think... The... Dream... Is... Dead...

 

[Frozenprince]

This better not pollute the real OT.

 

[Einchy]

Does anyone remember that gif of Geralt walking through a dungeon's door with a torch?

That's one of the gifs that completely floored me back in 2013 when it was first shown.

[edit]

Guys... I... Think... The... Dream... Is... Dead...

fuuuuck

What could have been.

 

[Sid]

Huh, so dark10x thinks it was downgraded? I guess I'm joining team downgrade too.

Of course it is,I mean just look at this:

Those screens of the finished game posted in the OP don't look anywhere near as good.

 

[1138]

Can't help but agree with the downgrade side here.

 

[dex3108]

Exactly my thoughts on this issue.
Has there ever been a game that looked exactly like the reveal videos?

I think that Bloodborne looked same, AC Unity was almost same (huge drawing distance for 5 seconds in initial reveal wasn't in game) but generally AC games are really close to initial reveal , Wolfenstein, Sunset Overdrive, i think that Dragon Age looked really close to initial reveal... So there are games that looked same.